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Prologue
As HoYoverse titles have gradually become more represented on the wiki, a recurring methodology question has emerged regarding how their progression systems should be indexed. Unlike many traditional RPGs, these games make extensive use of permanent character progression and canonical equipment systems that are closely integrated into both gameplay and the setting itself. However, there does not appear to be a clear standard for how these mechanics should be reflected on profiles.This thread is primarily concerned with Honkai: Star Rail, Genshin Impact, and Zenless Zone Zero, as these games share fundamentally similar progression systems. While similar mechanics exist in other RPGs and gacha titles, the purpose of this discussion is to establish a consistent methodology for HoYoverse games rather than making a universal rule for every gacha. However, other gacha games with analogous systems should be able to use whatever this thread decides and adapt it accordingly.
To briefly explain the systems in question:
- Characters can permanently unlock additional abilities through duplicate-based progression systems, such as Eidolons, Constellations, and Mindscapes. These upgrades grant new passives, enhance existing abilities, or introduce entirely new mechanics, permanently expanding the character's capabilities.
- Characters also utilize canonical equipment systems, including Relics, Artifacts, Drive Discs, Light Cones, Weapons, and W-Engines. These are not merely abstract gameplay mechanics but they exist within the worldbuilding of their respective games, possess lore and in-universe explanations, and are treated as genuine equipment used by characters.
The Issue: Should Monetization Influence Methodology?
I believe there is a methodological inconsistency in how HoYoverse character progression is evaluated compared to progression systems in many traditional RPGs.Permanent progression systems such as Eidolons, Constellations, and Mindscapes are often omitted or not indexed despite representing permanent upgrades that expand a character's designed abilities. Likewise, canonical equipment systems such as Relics, Artifacts, Drive Discs, Light Cones, and similar mechanics are frequently excluded from profile indexing despite being acknowledged within the setting itself. Examples include: This Relic set is what the Trailblazer canonically used in the Amphoreus Arc. Additionally, characters acknowledge the use of this type of gear across those games and they join us in our activities. This means they should be eligible to use them.
By comparison, many RPG profiles already recognize optional progression when it represents a legitimate canonical state of the character. Optional weapons, hidden techniques, post-game abilities, final forms, late-game equipment, and optional upgrades are frequently documented or indexed when they meaningfully alter the character's capabilities. The determining factor has generally not been whether every player is guaranteed to obtain them, but whether they represent a legitimate form of character progression.
HoYoverse games appear to be treated differently primarily because progression is distributed through duplicate acquisition systems or equipment farming. This raises the question of whether the acquisition method - particularly one tied to the game's monetization model - is unintentionally becoming a determining factor in profile methodology.
Simply put, should a character's canonical progression be evaluated based on how the player unlocks it, or based on what the progression actually represents for the character?
The concern is not that every progression mechanic must automatically be accepted, but rather that the current methodology risks treating identical forms of RPG progression differently depending on whether they are obtained through a side quest, exploration, character progression, or a summoning interface.
Optional Content Has Never Been the Standard
Across RPGs, players can obtain:1) Optional weapons
2) Optional armor
3) Secret abilities
4) Hidden techniques
5) Sidequest rewards
6) Endgame equipment
7) Optional character upgrades
All of these are acquired through optional content, yet the fact that the player is not required to obtain them does not automatically make them non-canonical. The wiki generally evaluates whether they are legitimate forms of progression, not whether every player is guaranteed to possess them.
Some verses and profiles even have DLC "joke"/"arcade" weapons listed. So this raises this question:
Why should "optional" be treated differently when the progression happens to come from a gacha system?
The "Player Ownership" Argument
An objection that has been brought up is that gacha characters or equipment are not inherently canonical because they are obtained through the player's account system. However, this confuses the method of acquisition with the identity of the character. It makes absolutely no sense at all to exclude any of those mechanics because some players do not have them. It would be the same as excluding a game's DLC because some people don't have it. That is very obviously, not a strong argument.RNG Systems
Another possible objection is that some equipment systems contain randomized elements, such as gear substats or random upgrade rolls. However, randomness in acquisition should not be confused with a lack of canonicity. Many RPGs contain randomized equipment systems, including randomized weapons, enchantments, runes, gems, modifiers, and loot affixes, yet the existence of these systems is not dismissed simply because individual players may obtain different results.
The random element represents the player's method of obtaining or optimizing equipment, not necessarily whether the equipment system itself exists within the setting. A character obtaining a randomly generated weapon modifier in gameplay does not mean the underlying mechanic is fictional or non-canonical.
Therefore, the relevant question should not be whether every possible roll is assumed, but whether the equipment system and its effects are recognized as part of the character's available progression. Similar to other RPG mechanics, explicit abilities granted by equipment can be evaluated individually, while numerical values can be assumed to exist at any value since any sort of percentage would be normally indexed.
All in all, Randomness affects which item a player receives, not whether the equipment system itself exists within the setting.
Chance-Based Resistances (HSR-specific mostly) and Statistics (General)
Another point is how chance-based resistances granted by canonical equipment should be indexed.A common argument is that because mechanics such as Effect Res(istance) can never guarantee a 100% chance of resisting every incoming status effect, they should only qualify as "Limited Resistance" or not be indexed at all.
However, this conflates two fundamentally different concepts:
- Activation rate (how often a resistance successfully activates).
- Resistance potency (how much of the effect is resisted once it activates).
When Effect Resistance successfully prevents a debuff, the status effect is resisted entirely. The character does not become "partially Frozen," "half Stunned", "half Imprisoned," or "somewhat Dominated." The effect either applies in full or fails to apply altogether. The numerical Effect RES value merely determines the likelihood of that complete negation occurring.
As such, it can be argued that the limitation lies in the frequency with which the resistance manifests, not in the strength of the resistance itself. So a Limited wording wouldn't work either as it usually means that the ability has a smaller scale or that it has certain drawbacks.
Unfortunately, I cannot think of ANY proposal other than simply listing it in characters' profiles as Resistances the way it has already been done so far. If some Disagree, I am kindly asking them to suggest another way that doesn't omit the characters' ability to defend against those effects. It's a probabilistic stat after all.
Other types of stats that are "rolled" will be addressed later in the thread.
Why Statistics Amplification Alone May Be Insufficient
One possible approach would be to simply classify the majority of equipment systems as Statistics Amplification. As most of them are as of now. However, I do not believe this fully addresses the issue.Many pieces of equipment grant a variety of effects with different applications. Status resistances, debuff application improvements, damage reduction, healing enhancements, energy regeneration, conditional buffs, shields, vulnerability and etc.
Reducing all of these mechanics to a generic Statistics Amplification entry risks obscuring abilities that are already recognized separately elsewhere on the wiki. For instance, an item that grants resistance to crowd-control effects is fundamentally different from one that simply increases Attack or Defense. Likewise, an item that improves healing or reduces incoming damage is describing a distinct gameplay effect rather than merely increasing the user's overall statistics.
Equipment, then, should be evaluated according to the nature of the effect it provides.
Treating every equipment effect as Statistics Amplification alone risks oversimplifying progression systems that are deliberately designed to grant far more than simple increases to combat parameters.
Consumables
The same discussion also extends to consumable items. While consumables are temporary by nature, temporary use has generally not been treated as sufficient grounds for excluding equipment from RPG profiles. Numerous RPG and MMORPG profiles already acknowledge consumable items, potions, scrolls, bombs, food, and other one-time-use equipment when they are part of the character's available arsenal or standard adventuring resources.If HoYoverse characters are assumed to have access to canonical consumables that they can freely obtain and use, there appears to be little methodological reason to treat them differently solely because they originate from a gacha RPG. As with any other equipment, reasonable assumptions regarding availability and standard loadouts can be made explicit on the profile rather than excluding the category altogether.
End Thoughts
The current approach risks making the game's monetization model a determining factor in profile methodology rather than evaluating whether the progression itself is canonically part of the character. It seems odd that said monetization model has more influence over profile indexing than gameplay mechanics, narrative and so on. Canon shouldn't become less canonical because a publisher decided to lock progression behind a banner or a domain instead of a sidequest or some skill points.
Another point worth considering is that many gacha RPGs actually provide more explicit narrative support for their progression systems than numerous traditional RPGs. Artifacts, Relics, Drive Discs, Light Cones, and similar systems are often given in-universe explanations, lore entries, historical backgrounds, and are presented as genuine objects that exist within the setting rather than abstract gameplay mechanics. In contrast, many conventional RPGs feature equipment systems with little or no narrative justification, yet their existence as canonical items is rarely questioned.
Many existing profiles already include optional or late-game states when they represent a legitimate version of the character. Characters are often indexed with their strongest equipment, final forms, post-game abilities, DLC content, or optional upgrades. The question has never been whether something is mandatory, but whether it represents a valid canonical state of the character.
It therefore seems inconsistent to dismiss gacha progression solely because it originates from a summoning or equipment interface when the games themselves frequently provide stronger lore integration for those systems than many non-gacha titles.
Proposals
Equipment should be treated the same way equipment is treated elsewhere on the wiki: it is to be reflected in the main profile. Highly customizable or situational loadouts can be handled through optional equipment sections, keys, or explanatory notes rather than being ignored outright. Rather than continuing to treat these systems on a case-by-case basis unless essential, I think it would be beneficial to establish a general methodology.Proposal for Upgrades:
All games that use the duplicate character system such as Eidolons or Constellations when they significantly alter a character's abilities will be normally indexed.
Proposal for Equipment:
ANY sort of obtainable Weapon/Gear etc. can be listed under every character's profile as Equipment or anything akin to that and any benefits they provide will be listed in their profiles.
Alternative: All Equipment will be listed as "Optional" or "Conditional" and their bonuses will be listed as "Optional".
Alternative 2: Stats on Equipment parts that have only one variation (Only ATK exists for hands, HP% for head etc) will be listed as part of their Base abilities whereas any other will be listed under "Optiona"/"Conditional".
Statistics and "rolls" conversion into ability indexing
This part might be more controversial and I will not fight it too extensively but I do ask of everyone, again, if they disagree, to suggest ways for these stats and abilities to be indexed properly.
Plenty of those games have special stats that provide to the characters very specific abilities.
| Game stat | VSBW ability analogue | Notes |
|---|---|---|
| Leveling | Accelerated Development | Obvious. Characters across ALL Hoyoverse games acknowledge you helping them level up (Examples here and here) |
| Eidolons/Constellations/Mindscapes | Power Awakening | Not too absurd of a suggestion. For example it also falls in line with Pathstriders walking down further into a Path and developing new powers. |
| ATK/HP | Statistics Amplification | Obvious. |
| Effect RES | Resistance to Status Effects | The effect is fully negated when it succeeds. |
| Effect Hit Rate | Probability Manipulation [?] | It improves the chance of landing debuffs against resistance. |
| DEF% | Damage Reduction | Obvious. |
| Break Effect | Durability Negation or Statistics Reduction + Paralysis Inducement + Power Nullification | Verse exclusive gameplay mechanic. It increases damage taken and lowers resistances. It also incapacitates enemies and prevents them from using abilities. Charge ups are also interrupted. |
| Energy Regeneration Rate | Energy Manipulation [?] | Depends on what "energy" represents in each verse. For example, in Star Rail, Energy it's most likely Imaginary Energy which is already passively used by the cast. |
| Healing Bonus | Enhanced Healing | Obvious. |
| Elemental DMG Bonus | Enhanced Elemental Manipulation or Damage Boost or Greater Elemental Manipulation | Obvious. |
| Damage Reduction | Damage Reduction | If it doesn't come from the DEF% stat. |
| Taunt / Aggro mechanics | Empathic Manipulation | Obvious. |
| Anomaly Proficiency/Mastery | Statistics Amplification or Damage Boost | Unclear. |
| Vulnerability | Durability Negation or Statistics Reduction | Obvious. |
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alright bro i guess we cant scale anything regardless if the statements match. all of the scans i posted are the exac same phenomenon, multiple possiblilities collapsing into one. that is consistant with the cosmology and eidolon description. 
