Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[DavidTPPM]

Changing the shape is a way to optimize a jutsu's effectiveness in combat and increase its impact. changing the shape =/= enhancing it with chakra

you don't have a single piece of evidence

not a single line have you provided

This is objectively incorrect. Shape transformation is verbatim said to increase the power of ninjutsu depending on the users skill

And that's exactly what we see with Kirin. Sasuke visibly channels all of the storms power into a single strike (since we see the storm disappears afterwards), and the DC caused by Kirin is thousands if not millions of times greater than the DC of a regular lightning bolt.

We objectively both know and see the power increase due to the shape transformation.

No, I was expecting you to give me your reasons for your opinion on the matter, but it seems you're too shy to share them.

Dude for the last time, nobody needs to debunk your baseless claims until you provide evidence they're right to begin with.

Until you prove all sound jutsus are equal in speed regardless of the user, nobody owes you any evidence of the contrary.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Why would Sasuke want to hit Itachi with an attack powered by chakra? He knew himself that He couldn't easily defeat Itachi.

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

he changed its shape < did he enhanced it with chakra ??? no he did not

Once again he used his chakra to take the lightning and mold them into a dragon. It’s simple really he took lots of lightning from the storm and turned it into a dragon to kill.

the penetration of a flat projectile is not the same as that of a pointed projectile

Relevancy?

yes i can blame him , changing the shape =/= empowering it with chakra

Two panels, an arc and a databook statement says otherwise. Also the entire chakra enhances durability, AP and speed as well

did he empowered kirin with his chakra ?? can you quote it ???

yes by changing its shape. It’s a on screen feat.

Why would Sasuke want to hit Itachi with an attack powered by chakra? He knew himself that He couldn't easily defeat Itachi.

All the more reason for him enhancing via shape change via using his chakra as medium

 

[Soulking22334]

This is objectively incorrect. Shape transformation is verbatim said to increase the power of ninjutsu depending on the users skill

And that's exactly what we see with Kirin. Sasuke visibly channels all of the storms power into a single strike (since we see the storm disappears afterwards), and the DC caused by Kirin is thousands if not millions of times greater than the DC of a regular lightning bolt.

We objectively both know and see the power increase due to the shape transformation.

dddddddddddid he put his chakra in kirin did he empowered it with his chakra ??????????????? the answer in no

changing the shape increase power and effectiveness but its not about puting chakra in the jutsu

Once again he used his chakra to take the lightning and mold them into a dragon. It’s simple really he took lots of lightning from the storm and turned it into a dragon to kill.

did he enhanced it with his chakra did he empowered it

Relevancy?

Changing the shape increases power and performance, but this is not evidence that additional power has been added , rather, it is evidence that the design has been modified for better performance.

yes by changing its shape. It’s a on screen feat.

did he added additional chakra to it did he ?????? where

All the more reason for him enhancing via shape change via using his chakra as medium

same

 

[Soulking22334]

Until you prove all sound jutsus are equal in speed regardless of the user, nobody owes you any evidence of the contrary.

I'm afraid the burden of proof lies with you, because I'm taking the apparent meaning of the matter , that is, since they are all based on sound, they must be at the same speed.

 

[FARLANDER3305]

change in shape lead to a change in interaction with the environment and in efficiency

You are saying efficiency but refusing enhancement ?
Sasuke First kırın was this strong because sasuke used 3 fire dragons to gather clouds and Amaterasu was also helped hım to strength it more this is why İTS was that strong if sasuke had poured more chakra into those 3 the effects will also increase

 

[Soulking22334]

You are saying efficiency but refusing enhancement ?
Sasuke First kırın was this strong because sasuke used 3 fire dragons to gather clouds and Amaterasu was also helped hım to strength it more this is why İTS was that strong if sasuke had poured more chakra into those 3 the effects will also increase

All of these factors created the clouds, and the electrical discharges within the clouds produced lightning, so your argument is off the mark, lightning is a natural phenomenon, even if its causes are man-made.

 

[Soulking22334]

I'm going to withdraw. I don't think anyone will be convinced.

 

[FARLANDER3305]

İf he pours more chakra into those fireballs it will be become more powerfull chakra manipulation page also explains why changing chakra nature can Give you power boosts as well

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

dddddddddddid he put his chakra in kirin did he empowered it with his chakra ??????????????? the answer in no

changing the shape increase power and effectiveness but its not about puting chakra in the jutsu

did he enhanced it with his chakra did he empowered it

He enhanced it, that’s been our topic since the beginning. And his enhancement took the shape of a dragon

Changing the shape increases power and performance, but this is not evidence that additional power has been added , rather, it is evidence that the design has been modified for better performance.

You just said it increases power and performance tho.

“but this is not evidence that additional power has been added”

Uhhhhh I think you have forgotten what you were arguing for. From the very beginning I was advocating for sasuke chakra being an enhancement not an addition.

So thank you for conceding

did he added additional chakra to it did he ?????? where

Did I ever say he did?

same

Kirin is water in tank, normally if you use a water hose to cut a rock via water it won’t work. This is natural lightning

But when you use a pressurize that same water it’s stronger enough to cut. That’s shape change, that’s Kirin

 

[DavidTPPM]

dddddddddddid he put his chakra in kirin did he empowered it with his chakra ??????????????? the answer in no

Not relevant.

changing the shape increase power and effectiveness but its not about puting chakra in the jutsu

Explain to me how Sasuke manipulated the shape of the lightning without infusing it with his chakra.

Changing the shape increases power and performance, but this is not evidence that additional power has been added , rather, it is evidence that the design has been modified for better performance.

Do you believe regular lighting bolts can cause island level destruction?

Sasuke objectively changed its shape which objectively increases it's power which we objectively see happen.

Like what's even your point here? Kirin is visibly unfathomably superior to a regular lightning bolt and the lore tells us shape transformation greatly enhances ninjutsu.

I'm afraid the burden of proof lies with you, because I'm taking the apparent meaning of the matter

No you're not. I already told you it doesn't matter what you call your assumption, it's still just an assumption.

that is, since they are all based on sound, they must be at the same speed.

Prove that.

I already told you I can also just say "I'm taking the apparent meaning that a faster characters ninjutsu is faster than a slower characters ninjutsu". Hell that's what we see with other jutsu too, not all fire based jutsu are equal in speed either. Calling your assumption "apparent meaning" doesn't magically erase the fact you're just making assumptions.

So unless you can prove all sound based jutsu are equal regardless of the user, that will just remain an empty assumption that nobody even needs to acknowledge.

 

[Mommyleona]

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

I'm going to withdraw. I don't think anyone will be convinced.

No

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

All the more reason for him enhancing via shape change via using his chakra as medium

Actually, I agree with you. I misexpressed myself because I was translating. I meant to say, "Why would anyone choose not to use chakras?"

 

[DavidTPPM]

Actually, I agree with you. I misexpressed myself because I was translating. I meant to say, "Why would anyone choose not to use chakras?"

I hate when I misexpress myself too

 

[Soulking22334]

He enhanced it, that’s been our topic since the beginning. And his enhancement took the shape of a dragon

via changing its shape not via adding Chakra

You just said it increases power and performance tho.

“but this is not evidence that additional power has been added”

Uhhhhh I think you have forgotten what you were arguing for. From the very beginning I was advocating for sasuke chakra being an enhancement not an addition.

So thank you for conceding

Kirin is water in tank, normally if you use a water hose to cut a rock via water it won’t work. This is natural lightning

But when you use a pressurize that same water it’s stronger enough to cut. That’s shape change, that’s Kirin

So we agree that the increased power comes from changing the shape, not from adding more chakra < good then this is my last comment on the topic , have a good day

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

I hate when I misexpress myself too

 

[FARLANDER3305]

Chakra enhancement has been Always a core mechanic of the series and we know even from p1 that you can enhance your physicals enhance your jutsus hell Even breaking from gj is actually tied to this

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

via changing its shape not via adding Chakra

And you do that via chakra. No one is saying his adding 50% chakra and 50% natural lightning to make Kirin.

You said it your self he uses chakra to activate it which it turn means that activation is what causes shape change

So we agree that the increased power comes from changing the shape, not from adding more chakra < good then this is my last comment on the topic , have a good day

I need you to understand that change shape occurs via chakra usage. Once again you conceded that chakra was used for activation which in turn was used to make the dragon.

This is not the big rasengan where Naruto pumps massive amounts of chakra into a normal rasengan to increase its potency.

Once again you already conceded that a few bits of chkara was used to make that dragon via accepting activation via chakra

 

[FARLANDER3305]

via changing its shape not via adding Chakra


So we agree that the increased power comes from changing the shape, not from adding more chakra < good then this is my last comment on the topic , have a good day

When you pour chakra into rasengan it becomes oodama rasengan
As i said molding and chakra control is about how well you can pour chakra into something

 

[Testarossa002]

Folks here think natural CTG lightning in Naruto can instantly nuke mountains
Thunderstorms must be an extinction level event

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Folks here think natural CTG lightning in Naruto can instantly nuke mountains
Thunderstorms must be an extinction level event

No wonder Shibai was making storms with his hands

 

[Nierre]

Why is this even a debate.. I'd understand if ur debating the speed of Kirin.. but whether or not Sasuke used chakra in the formation of Kirin? The same Kirin that destroyed part of the mountain the brothers were fighting on???

 

[Anypersonburnimagines]

Bro, I wish I could laugh-react to Soulking’s posts so badly. VSBW seriously needs an update ASAP.

 

[Aytugsss]

İ still want to hear light based jutsus tbh

 

[Nierre]

There's no such thing as "light based Jutsu" in Naruto bc there's no such thing as light release. Storm Release though has created a few light jutsus (Madara's light fang and Darui's laser circus)

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Bro, I wish I could laugh-react to Soulking’s posts so badly. VSBW seriously needs an update ASAP.

Let's avoid comments like this when the debate already almost got heated.

Don't take liberties with someone that hasn't given you the go ahead to do banter with.

 

[Aytugsss]

There's no such thing as "light based Jutsu" in Naruto bc there's no such thing as light release. Storm Release though has created a few light jutsus (Madara's light fang and Darui's laser circus)

İ know, i said that the other guy but he confident about it

 

[Soulking22334]

what did happened to the foriaa's thread ???

 

[Soulking22334]

I need you to understand that change shape occurs via chakra usage. Once again you conceded that chakra was used for activation which in turn was used to make the dragon.

This is not the big rasengan where Naruto pumps massive amounts of chakra into a normal rasengan to increase its potency.

Once again you already conceded that a few bits of chkara was used to make that dragon via accepting activation via chakra

I think there was a miscommunication.
if that's what you meant from the start, then I completely agree with you.

 

[karo_senpaii]

other than shaping it , no chakra was used

Do you realise that change in shape is a concept used to enhance jutsu in Naruto?

 

[Foriaa]

what did happened to the foriaa's thread ???

I'm configuring the calc

 

[Soulking22334]

Do you realise that change in shape is a concept used to enhance jutsu in Naruto?

i thought they meant by enhance pumping chakra in the jutsu

but it turned out to be a misunderstanding.

I'm configuring the calc

when you will reopen it , i am interested

 

[Kayzz]

Sasuke wasnt immune to infinity tsukiyomi but he can make his susanoo opaque so light cant penetrate tought its his rinnegans ability because bz directly said his rinnegan can deter this jutsu because the lights coming from inifnity tsukiyomi can penetrate

The light of IT isn't ordinary light that is blocked by opaque objects. It penetrates everything leaving no shadows.

 

[Aytugsss]

The light of IT isn't ordinary light that is blocked by opaque objects. It penetrates everything leaving no shadows.

Thats what i tried to say in my last sentence but i was in hurry so i didnt make it clear.
Sasukes susanoo could be normal susanoo like madaras but his rinnegan allows him to block light which can penetrate opaque things
Because bz said "his rinnegan can do this to?"
But he can caught by infinity tsukiyomi,im saying this because he afraid to go out from his susanoo

 

[karo_senpaii]

i thought they meant by enhance pumping chakra in the jutsu

but it turned out to be a misunderstanding.

You don't believe chakra can be used to enhance elements that way?