The Revenant Marvel Comics Discussion Thread

[Antvasima]

Well, I am mostly opposed to the Astral Regulator trilogy, as it did not fit at all in terms of cosmological scale, severely contradicted established continuity, such as claiming that Ultron killed Mentor rather than Thanos himself, and as it did not make any logical sense for TOAA to be so easily usurped by universal stabilisers of his own creation.

However, I am not fond of Marvel: The End either of course, given that Starlin went berzerk with the hollow and pointless villain suggs egomaniacal power-tripping, and Tom Brevoort did state that it did not work as a part of continuity. Also, its intended editorial purpose, to make it much harder for characters to be resurrected, was completely ignored by other writers.

 

[Eseseso]

I'm with Ant against remerging Brevoort into the main cosmology. Especially since, unlike Demattis, Brevoort said that his works are not meant to be part of main Marvel continuity

 

[Antvasima]

I think that you mean remerging Starlin.

 

[Entity]

In the latest Phoenix run, the Phoenix Force was going to be killed by the Abstracts, a manifestation of Oblivion in particular, while inside of The White Hot Room itself. The Phoenix is considered to be a part of The Abstracts' pantheon and there is no implication of superiority. Jean even states that there is no chance she can win and that The White Hot Room will be destroyed. The Phoenix Force was only saved by the Abstracts being convinced that compassion was needed.

Which doesn't make sense since the Abstracts cannot leave Eternity without dying in the Outside and the Phoenix inside the WHR is stronger than the Beyonders

is also the erroneous assertion that The Elder Gods are more powerful than The Abstracts when that obviously is not the case as seen with The Powers That Be seeing Chthon, one of if not the strongest Elder God, as but one of its practitioners.

Chton is really not the strongest Elder God

 

[MrKerf]

Also, Thanos The End being non canon isn’t even supported in company, as their characters appear in handbooks.

 

[Eseseso]

I think that you mean remerging Starlin.

Yes. If anything, the Starling/Brevoort saga seems to be in the same grand cosmology as Oyodale.

 

[MrKerf]

Yes. If anything, the Starling/Brevoort saga seems to be in the same grand cosmology as Oyodale.

Monumental slander, but incorrect.

 

[PromptedElephant641]

Well, to comment on this actually, Oblivion's void is usually pitch black. In comparison, the white void is usually the result of the universe's destruction (as seen multiple of times). That's at least worth some thinking. Yeah, the storyline says unverse, but means multiverse... whatever.

But I largely agree.

That’s really just down to artistic depiction. Starlin typically uses universe to mean everything for some reason. Regardless, Thanos killing himself will take everything to Oblivion as stated in the story.

I mean, as someone who isn't an expert on High 1-A+, I just think that bringing Demattis back into the fold would make the cosmology look something like this:

• Omniverse: Baseline High 1-A instead of 1-A+ (especially since Omniversal Eternity even without Demattis already sees everything inside of him such as universes as a dream, as comic strips or as a script)
• Beyonders: 1 layer of High 1-A
• WHR, Dominions, True Form Nyx, and Tiger God: 2 layers of High 1-A
• Never Queen: 3 layers
• HOI: 4 layers

Regardless of where the omniverse is stated to be (it is probably fine as it currently is), it is what comes afterwards that is the problem. The Beyonders were created by the Celestials and are internal creations of Eternity. As such there CAN’T be any degree of transcendence between Eternity and The Beyonders and definitely not a Meta-Qualitative transcendence. Additionally, The Beyond Realm is literally made from the corpse of the second cosmos.The WHR is below the Never Queen who is directly comparable to The Griever at The End of All Things and who was killed as a result of the destruction of reality in Secret Wars. The Never Queen is the former Fourth Eternity. The Abstracts are also shown to be capable of killing The Phoenix while inside TWR and even destroying TWR. In an Al Ewing story, Resurrection of Magneto, Storm uses the symbolic power of magic to defeat several Dominions. Magic is a product of the Fifth Eternity.

The HOI and TOAA can remain a degree of transcendent to and above everything else. I agree on that.

Look at the end of this post to see the proposal.

Well, I mostly agree with your assessments, especially your suggested cosmology downgrades, but Ewing was clearly referring to that DeMatteis' ideas about Oblivion have been outdated and retconned by now in a sarcastic manner, rather than agreeing with them.

Also, Jim Starlin has never explicitly acknowledged/used Oblivion as a character, and has an extremely lowballed lack of understanding of the full scale of the Marvel Comics cosmology, as the way he portrays it, it peaks at 2-A, and Starlin's latest Thanos storylines are considered to be non-canon by us, and apparently by Tom Brevoort, due to not fitting with the general cosmology or continuity.

And as far as I am aware Ewing's Kabbalistic cosmology actually was supposed to be hierarchical, for example considering how The Beyonder was outclassed by the Phoenix Force within the White Hot Room, but other writers haven't adhered to/properly acknowledged it, and I agree with you about that the differences in scale were likely not intended to be nearly as drastic as we currently present them to be.

1.) I don’t know if he saying that they were outdated or not. Especially as in his Ultimates stuff, Thanos directly refers to the ultimate nothingness behind everything.

“...But this was not sweet death's embrace. Instead, he was in exile. Outside all systems--old and new. Outside everything. Beyond life. Beyond death. The notion was grotesque--perverse. And yet... …the great nothing about him seemed infused with dark potential.”

“I glimpsed, behind her bone white smile the possibility of a greater perfection. A perfection that cannot exist as long as existence is even a concept. I've been outside conner. I've seen the face of pure and perfect nothing. And I want you to see it too. All of you.”

2.) Correct. Starlin never shows Oblivion because he uses Oblivion as a purely non physical transcendent entity. In the Infinity conflict and Infinity Ending, it is directly stated multiple times that, by killing himself who is now TOAA, he will be sending everything to Oblivion. Starlin’s edgy writings of Thanos’ obsession and worship of death find their ultimate conclusion when Thanos instead in a way now worships Oblivion, the ultimate embodiment of nihilism. By killing himself and taking creation with him he is providing the perfect sacrifice for his new god. In a way, Starlin never depicting Oblivion makes sense as there is nothing to depict. I don’t think this part of Starlin’s interpretation of Marvel contradicts anything. The primary former gripes about Starlin was his portrayal of TOAA, but now TOAA is depicted in the same non-omnipotent manner that Starlin described.

3.) I see it as a general framework. Phoenix defeating Beyonders in TWR is more just her being in her realm. Heck even Nightmare was shown to be capable of defeating Beyonders in his own realm. And, as shown, there is plenty of evidence that The Phoenix and Never Queen exist at the same level as the other Abstracts.

I do think there is plenty of evidence to show that Oblivion should have a key behind his normal abstract keys being the void from which TOAA emerged and to which he and all reality will eventually return. Additionally, any other cosmic being of darkness and absolute destruction from Amatsu Mikaboshi (Chaos King), Nyx, The Tiger God, The Anti-All, The Goblin Force, Knull, any of the residents of the Cold Dark Room such as The Adversary, and The Griever at The End of All Things should logically be seen as acolytes or representations of this Ultimate Oblivion.

As for the rest of The Abstracts, it is clear that from the level of Eternity to The Never Queen, they are all comparable in their fullest extent. To get around this issue and the matter that The Beyonders have been consistently depicted as superior to the abstracts, another key can be added to some of the relevant abstracts beyond their Multi-Abstract forms. This true key will be above Multiversal Eternity and The Beyond realm and should be baseline High-1A. Those that would have this key would be The Phoenix Force, Eternity, The Never Queen, and The Griever at The End of All Things. The latter three form The Three Faces of Existence and The Phoenix Force is the embodiment of all life at all times on every level throughout all of Eternity being the concept of endless cycles of creation, destruction, resurrection, and rebirth and, as implied in Defenders Beyond, to be the source of time. The lesser abstracts like The Inbetweener, Galactus, Love and Hate etc would not qualify. Additionally, The Phoenix Force and The Never Queen should have a Multi-Abstract tier key as well which should be comparable to Multi-Eternity. This would mean that there will be a Multi-Abstract equivalent of TWR and The Land of Can be Shall be. This will be the level at which the Abstracts confronted and threatened The Phoenix Force in the Latest Phoenix Comic arc.

This would just change the cosmology from being as it currently is:

• Multi-Eternity
• Beyond Realm
• TWR
• The Never Queen
• TOAA / HOI

Making it into this:

• 1A+ (baseline): Multi-Eternity (this also includes all the other Multi-Abstracts and their realms including the Multi-TWR.) and The Beyond Realm (While the Beyonders are definitely more powerful [no qualitative superiority] they exist at the same level as the Multi-Abstract and are depicted as creations of The Celestials or a creation of a creation (Cal-Horra) of the Celestials. Their realm is even formed from the remains of the corpse of Second Eternity)
• 1A+ (1 layer of transcendence): The Elder Gods could be placed here if they are determined to be more powerful than Multi-Abstracts (though this is dubious)
• High-1A (Baseline): True Eternity (The World of Action), True Never Queen, True Griever at The End of All Things (The Three Faces of Existence) and The True Phoenix Force / The White Hot Room. Additionally: the True Dominions, True Form Nyx, True Form Tiger God, True Form Oblivion, and True Form Cold Dark Room.
• High-1A (1 level of transcendence): TOAA (The World of Creation)
• High-1A (2 levels of transcendence): True Oblivion

 

[Eseseso]

That’s really just down to artistic depiction. Starlin typically uses universe to mean everything for some reason. Regardless, Thanos killing himself will take everything to Oblivion as stated in the story.

Regardless of where the omniverse is stated to be (it is probably fine as it currently is), it is what comes afterwards that is the problem. The Beyonders were created by the Celestials and are internal creations of Eternity. As such there CAN’T be any degree of transcendence between Eternity and The Beyonders and definitely not a Meta-Qualitative transcendence. Additionally, The Beyond Realm is literally made from the corpse of the second cosmos.The WHR is below the Never Queen who is directly comparable to The Griever at The End of All Things and who was killed as a result of the destruction of reality in Secret Wars. The Never Queen is the former Fourth Eternity. The Abstracts are also shown to be capable of killing The Phoenix while inside TWR and even destroying TWR. In an Al Ewing story, Resurrection of Magneto, Storm uses the symbolic power of magic to defeat several Dominions. Magic is a product of the Fifth Eternity.

The HOI and TOAA can remain a degree of transcendent to and above everything else. I agree on that.

Look at the end of this post to see the proposal.

1.) I don’t know if he saying that they were outdated or not. Especially as in his Ultimates stuff, Thanos directly refers to the ultimate nothingness behind everything.

“...But this was not sweet death's embrace. Instead, he was in exile. Outside all systems--old and new. Outside everything. Beyond life. Beyond death. The notion was grotesque--perverse. And yet... …the great nothing about him seemed infused with dark potential.”

“I glimpsed, behind her bone white smile the possibility of a greater perfection. A perfection that cannot exist as long as existence is even a concept. I've been outside conner. I've seen the face of pure and perfect nothing. And I want you to see it too. All of you.”

2.) Correct. Starlin never shows Oblivion because he uses Oblivion as a purely non physical transcendent entity. In the Infinity conflict and Infinity Ending, it is directly stated multiple times that, by killing himself who is now TOAA, he will be sending everything to Oblivion. Starlin’s edgy writings of Thanos’ obsession and worship of death find their ultimate conclusion when Thanos instead in a way now worships Oblivion, the ultimate embodiment of nihilism. By killing himself and taking creation with him he is providing the perfect sacrifice for his new god. In a way, Starlin never depicting Oblivion makes sense as there is nothing to depict. I don’t think this part of Starlin’s interpretation of Marvel contradicts anything. The primary former gripes about Starlin was his portrayal of TOAA, but now TOAA is depicted in the same non-omnipotent manner that Starlin described.

3.) I see it as a general framework. Phoenix defeating Beyonders in TWR is more just her being in her realm. Heck even Nightmare was shown to be capable of defeating Beyonders in his own realm. And, as shown, there is plenty of evidence that The Phoenix and Never Queen exist at the same level as the other Abstracts.

I do think there is plenty of evidence to show that Oblivion should have a key behind his normal abstract keys being the void from which TOAA emerged and to which he and all reality will eventually return. Additionally, any other cosmic being of darkness and absolute destruction from Amatsu Mikaboshi (Chaos King), Nyx, The Tiger God, The Anti-All, The Goblin Force, Knull, any of the residents of the Cold Dark Room such as The Adversary, and The Griever at The End of All Things should logically be seen as acolytes or representations of this Ultimate Oblivion.

As for the rest of The Abstracts, it is clear that from the level of Eternity to The Never Queen, they are all comparable in their fullest extent. To potentially get around this issue and the matter that The Beyonders have been consistently depicted as superior to the abstracts, another key can be added to some of the relevant abstrwcts beyond their Multi-Abstract forms. This true key will be above Multiversal Eternity and The Beyond realm and should be baseline High-1A. Those that would have this key would be The Phoenix Force, Eternity, The Never Queen, and The Griever at The End of All Things. The latter three form The Three Faces of Existence and The Phoenix Force is the embodiment of all life at all times on every level throughout all of Eternity being the concept of endless cycles of creation, destruction, resurrection, and rebirth. The lesser abstracts like The Inbetweener, Galactus, Love and Hate etc would not qualify. Additionally, The Phoenix Force and The Never Queen should have a Multi-Abstract tier key as well which should be comparable to Multi-Eternity. This would mean that there will be a Multi-Abstract equivalent of TWR and The Land of Can be Shall be. This will be the level at which the Abstracts confronted and threatened The Phoenix Force in the Latest Phoenix Comic arc.

This would just change the cosmology from being as it currently is:

• Multi-Eternity
• Beyond Realm
• TWR
• The Never Queen
• TOAA / HOI

Making it into this:

• 1A+ (baseline): Multi-Eternity (includes all the other Multi-Abstracts and their realms including the Multi-TWR.) and The Beyond Realm (While the Beyonders are definitely more powerful [no qualitative superiority] they exist at the same level as the Multi-Abstract and are depicted as creations of The Celestials or a creation of a creation (Cal-Horta) of the Celestials. Their realm is even formed from the remains of the corpse of Second Eternity)
• 1A+ (1 layer of transcendence): The Elder Gods could be placed here if they are determined to be more powerful than Multi-Abstracts (though this is dubious)
• High-1A (Baseline): True Eternity, True Never Queen, True Griever at The End of All Things (The Three Faces of Existence) and The True Phoenix Force / The White Hot Room. Additionally: the True Dominions, True Form Nyx, True Form Tiger God, and True Form Cold Dark Room.
• High-1A (1 level of transcendence): TOAA / HOI.
• High-1A (2 levels of transcendence): True Oblivion

Interesting proposal...

 

[Antvasima]

1) Ewing was clearly referring to that he did not want Marvel Comics and its writers to be confined to an offhanded mention by DeMatteis 40 years ago.

2) Starlin always trivialises what should be purely abstract entities into physicalised petty power-mad tyrants. Stating that he was referring to Oblivion the character rather than a general storytelling principle, is pure speculation. And I still find Starlin's latest stories to be extremely unreliable to use in our system, and the writer himself and his concepts to be morally reprehensible.

3) Until Oblivion being superior to all of the others has been clearly established in prominent present day cosmology, I definitely don't want us to use and spread a combination of fan speculation and destructive nihilism by presenting him as superior to TOAA.

That is all. I don't have the available time or interest to deal with further repeated walls of text from you. These specific suggestions are firmly rejected, even though I find several of your other ones here quite sensible. My apologies.

 

[PromptedElephant641]

Ok. Understandable.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you very much for being reasonable, and I apologise if I was being rude.

Also, as I said earlier, some of your other suggestions seem perfectly fine.

 

[PromptedElephant641]

It’s okay. My position regarding Oblivion was mostly based on the word Oblivion being used to refer to the space / void outside of The One Above All and into which he came into existence. So it was only an assumption that this was referring to the entity Oblivion. While there is stuff that supports this idea that a true form of Oblivion is above TOAA, with the assumption that the word Oblivion being referred to is the entity, it should probably be disregarded for the time being until either Al-Ewing or another reputable author writes about him in an actual comic and not an interview statement.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, not just in an interview. It has to be very reliably established within the main continuity.

 

[Executor_N0]

So did anybody read "The Mortal Thor" issue 12? I really liked that it fixed Donny Cates' illogical plot development of suddenly turning Donald Blake deeply homicidal, and also clarified that Thor did not steal his soul, he reincarnated it free of Jormungand's control, which is a relief, as it would be uncharacteristically villainous of Thor otherwise.

The sad part of anything Al Ewing tries to fix while making a compelling story is that it's only time until a new writer completely ignores the themes and development he brings. Which is sad, because I'm really enjoying his Thor story.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. Strongly agreed.

If Ewing is The Sentry, building, healing, purifying, helping, and being constructive and bringing meaning and purpose, Hickman and his fellow complete asshole writers are The Void, wantonly destroying, hurting, defiling, and being destructive, sadistic, amoral, and nihilistic to systematically undermine absolutely anything Ewing does for the benefit of the conceptual structure of the narrative setting as a whole, only leaving memetic poison, disease, cruelty, and misery in their wakes.

 

[Jimmy.robinson.5099]

Yes. Strongly agreed.

If Ewing is The Sentry, building, healing, purifying, helping, and being constructive and bringing meaning and purpose, Hickman and his fellow asshole writers are The Void, wantonly destroying, hurting, defiling, and being destructive, sadistic, amoral, and nihilistic to systematically undermine absolutely anything Ewing does for the benefit of the conceptual structure of the narrative setting.

Forgive me if I come off as rude, but do you really have to tear down the other writers just to prop up Ewing? I get that you're a big fan of his, and you have your own views on the Marvel Universe as a whole, but Ewing isn't the only one writing good stuff over at Marvel right now. Even the current Spider-Man run has had its moments, for example.

 

[Antvasima]

Joe Kelly is a quite good writer, yes, but I still strongly maintain my views about Hickman, Ennis, McFarlane, Willingham, Gillen, Pulido, Starlin, Miller, Millar, Ellis, Byrne, Ditko, and their ilk, and consider many others to do extremely ill-considered and destructive storytelling choices, even if they haven't outright poisonous mentalities.

Also, this was an observation about that anything good that Ewing has done for Marvel Comics has usually very quickly been torn down and inverted either by comparative hacks or writers with outright malicious mindsets, with Hickman being most responsible.

 

[Eseseso]

Joe Kelly is a quite good writer, yes, but I still strongly maintain my views about Hickman, Ennis, McFarlane, Willingham, Gillen, Pulido, Starlin, Miller, Millar, Ellis, Byrne, Ditko, and their ilk, and consider many others to do extremely ill-considered and destructive storytelling choices, even if they haven't outright poisonous mentalities.

Also, this was an observation about that anything good that Ewing has done for Marvel Comics has usually very quickly been torn down and inverted either by comparative hacks or writers with outright malicious mindsets, with Hickman being most responsible.

I mean, didn't Hickman write the 2015 Secret Wars, which ends on the optimistic message that "Everything Lives" and that as long as we don't embrace stagnation there's always hope for the future?

 

[Antvasima]

That was a small footnote after several years of relentless realpolitik-style morbid nihilism, amorality, and cruelty taken to serial-genocidal degrees.

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

Bit of a non-sequitur, but my wife and I and a few of our friends are playing a draft of the new Marvel Superheroes "Magic: The Gathering" set that's chiefly inspired by the comics and I opened Thor and Sentry. I'm stoked

 

[ObberGobb]

That was a small footnote after several years of relentless realpolitik-style morbid nihilism, amorality, and cruelty taken to serial-genocidal degrees.

His Fantastic Four run was about Mr. Fantastic refuting that ideology. Doctor Doom, who embodies that, fails miserably at everything he does. In Hickman's runs he get godlike power twice. The first time he is immediately overthrown by his own creations and needs to be saved by his arch enemy's toddler daughter and copes hard by saying he was too good for godhood. The second time he also fails so bad it forces him to admit Mr. Fantastic would have done a better job and it (temporarily) turns him good.

The Incursions Saga is ultimately about how the Illuminati failed to save the Multiverse. It's about how, despite initially being willing to go to extremes to do what they thought was the greater good, they ultimately decided that they would rather die that continue blowing up alternate Earths. This is contrasted with Thanos' Cabal, who take active pleasure in destroying worlds. Mr. Fantastic ultimately saves the day by building a life raft and convincing the antisocial Molecule Man to help him rebuild. Exact opposite of their initial plan of destruction, which fails.

 

[MrKerf]

Bit of a non-sequitur, but my wife and I and a few of our friends are playing a draft of the new Marvel Superheroes "Magic: The Gathering" set that's chiefly inspired by the comics and I opened Thor and Sentry. I'm stoked

Nice.

 

[Antvasima]

His Fantastic Four run was about Mr. Fantastic refuting that ideology. Doctor Doom, who embodies that, fails miserably at everything he does. In Hickman's runs he get godlike power twice. The first time he is immediately overthrown by his own creations and needs to be saved by his arch enemy's toddler daughter and copes hard by saying he was too good for godhood. The second time he also fails so bad it forces him to admit Mr. Fantastic would have done a better job and it (temporarily) turns him good.

The Incursions Saga is ultimately about how the Illuminati failed to save the Multiverse. It's about how, despite initially being willing to go to extremes to do what they thought was the greater good, they ultimately decided that they would rather die that continue blowing up alternate Earths. This is contrasted with Thanos' Cabal, who take active pleasure in destroying worlds. Mr. Fantastic ultimately saves the day by building a life raft and convincing the antisocial Molecule Man to help him rebuild. Exact opposite of their initial plan of destruction, which fails.

Hickman continuously presents false premises of that the world requires much more inescapably thoroughly evil choices and solutions for the sake of base survivalism (as opposed to striving for genuine wisdom, kindness, love, compassion, freedom, and Enlightenment) than it actually does, and I have dissected the thematics of most of his sum total storylines indepth here earlier, so I continue to maintain that he himself seems like a gleefully evil piece of shit with a thoroughly elaborately memetically poisonous, diseased, and destructive creative mindscape.

 

[PromptedElephant641]

Storm’s feat of harming eight Dominions in The Resurrection of Magneto should be removed from her profile. It was only possible due to the symbolic nature of the realm in which they were in. Storm even wonders if Magneto had done the same thing on his journey before her so it is not even something exclusive to her.

 

[Rgerdeena]

Storm’s feat of harming eight Dominions in The Resurrection of Magneto should be removed from her profile. It was only possible due to the symbolic nature of the realm in which they were in. Storm even wonders if Magneto had done the same thing on his journey before her so it is not even something exclusive to her.

Do you have Scans?, also it being symbolic doesn’t mean much because at the higher levels of marvel’s cosmology combat is symbolic(ultimates #6 and #9), also it not being unique to storm doesn’t mean that she can’t scale to it

 

[PromptedElephant641]

Do you have Scans?, also it being symbolic doesn’t mean much because at the higher levels of marvel’s cosmology combat is symbolic(ultimates #6 and #9), also it not being unique to storm doesn’t mean that she can’t scale to it

They are already on her profile, but for simplicity: here.

 

[Rgerdeena]

They are already on her profile.

That addresses one thing I said, also looking at the scan, she was wondering whether or not magneto tried to do that, there being a possibility of magneto attempting to attack the dominions doesn’t at all invalidate storm’s feat

 

[PromptedElephant641]

That addresses one thing I said, also looking at the scan, she was wondering whether or not magneto tried to do that, there being a possibility of magneto attempting to attack the dominions doesn’t at all invalidate storm’s feat

It seems pretty iffy. She also relies on the symbolic nature of places and things throughout the series to defeat powerful enemies. Regardless, it should be clarified on her profile that these Dominions she fought are their form within reality, as the true Dominions are obviously far far beyond her capacity to harm. The Beyonders stuff also needs to go.

 

[Rgerdeena]

It seems pretty iffy. She also relies on the symbolic nature of places and things throughout the series to defeat powerful enemies.

On it’s own I’d agree that it’s iffy, but the higher levels of marvel’s cosmology are naturally symbolic so it’s not totally invalid, so it works fine as supporting evidence for her other 1-A feats

Regardless, it should be clarified on her profile that these Dominions she fought are their form within reality, as the true Dominions are obviously far far beyond her capacity to harm. The Beyonders stuff also needs to go.

that seems reasonable, especially since the beyonders stuff doesn’t accomplish anything except make the justification longer

 

[Antvasima]

It seems pretty iffy. She also relies on the symbolic nature of places and things throughout the series to defeat powerful enemies. Regardless, it should be clarified on her profile that these Dominions she fought are their form within reality, as the true Dominions are obviously far far beyond her capacity to harm.

That seems to make sense, but are you certain?

The Beyonders stuff also needs to go.

Please remind us what you are referring to.

 

[PromptedElephant641]

That seems to make sense, but are you certain?

Please remind us what you are referring to.

It says on her profile:

• While in Overspace, Storm harmed eight Dominions at once with her powers, Dominions' power and nature make them capable of threatening the Beyonders.

What needs to be fixed is clarification that the Dominions she harmed are not the true Dominions and were instead their manifestations in reality. Additionally, the stuff mentioning the Beyonders needs to be removed as that is not applicable to the in reality form of The Dominions. Leaving it there implies that Storm is comperable to The Beyonders when that is obviously not the case. They are vastly superior to her.

 

[Antvasima]

It says on her profile:

• While in Overspace, Storm harmed eight Dominions at once with her powers, Dominions' power and nature make them capable of threatening the Beyonders.

Yes, I know, but that is not what I tried to ask.

What needs to be fixed is clarification that the Dominions she harmed are not the true Dominions and were instead their manifestations in reality.

This is what I wanted a clarification for.

Additionally, the stuff mentioning the Beyonders needs to be removed as that is not applicable to the in reality form of The Dominions. Leaving it there implies that Storm is comperable to The Beyonders when that is obviously not the case. They are vastly superior to her.

What was mentioned about the Beyonders in Storm's page?

 

[PromptedElephant641]

Yes, I know, but that is not what I tried to ask.

This is what I wanted a clarification for.

What was mentioned about the Beyonders in Storm's page?

Well we know that they were not the True Dominions as the realm that is shown in The Resurrection of Magneto where Storm fought them is neither The White Hot Room or another realm of comparable cosmological significance, which is where the true form Dominions reside. As such she must have been fighting their in reality forms. Additionally, It would be a massively illogical outlier if she did fight their true form Dominions.

The Beyonders stuff on her profile needs to be removed as it is not applicable to the in reality dominions that she fought. It currently says on her attack potency section “Dominions' power and nature make them capable of threatening the Beyonders.” This should just be deleted from her profile. The in reality form Dominions are baseline 1A whereas The Beyonders are 1A+.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

Well we know that they were not the True Dominions as the realm that is shown in The Resurrection of Magneto where Storm fought them is neither The White Hot Room or another realm of comparable cosmological significance, which is where the true form Dominions reside.

The Dominions she fights outright confirm that they are superior to Beyonders and reside in a non-linear state at that time.

 

[PromptedElephant641]

Then we are left with either upgrading Storm to High-1A or removing it entirely for being a massive outlier. As already stated, she says she is only able to harm them due to the nature of the realm and that Magneto could have done the same. It seems ridiculous to have Storm scale to the Dominions under her own power when she simply doesn’t have a mechanism for being rated that high.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

It seems ridiculous to have Storm scale to the Dominions under her own power when she simply doesn’t have a mechanism for being rated that high.

She is descended from Agamotto, the first sorcerer supreme, the Egyptian sorceress Ashake, a former sorcerer supreme who was the disciple of Oshtur and deals with Egyptian Gods (Ennead) in general, a pantheon which includes various potentially Elder God level beings like Atum, Thoth, Khonshu, and Bast, and of course, she descended from Oshtur herself, and her crazy divine power has been directly attributed to these lineages.

 

[PromptedElephant641]

That’s not nearly enough to justify a High-1A feat. While it does provide adequate explanation for the other stuff on her 1A section of her profile, the Dominion feat is incomprehensibly beyond anything she can do or draw upon and as such should be removed for being an outlier.

 

[ObberGobb]

She is descended from Agamotto, the first sorcerer supreme, the Egyptian sorceress Ashake, a former sorcerer supreme who was the disciple of Oshtur and deals with Egyptian Gods (Ennead) in general, a pantheon which includes various potentially Elder God level beings like Atum, Thoth, Khonshu, and Bast, and of course, she descended from Oshtur herself, and her crazy divine power has been directly attributed to these lineages.

Sure but that doesn't make it not an outlier, since she is never treated as being a character stronger than Beyonders. She was Eternity's Herald, so definitely is weaker than him. And iirc, Storm's writer said that the story where that happened was universal in scope. We can upgrade a character to High 1-A based on one feat, that's insane.

 

[MrKerf]

It should be noted that all she acomplished against Dominions is stings them a bit, and even that she claims is only because of the nature of the Overspace. She doesn't harm them in any significant way.