Tensura - Some more Speed stuff

[ReasonedZebra834]

A question for the administrators: I know everyone has the right to disagree and agree, but does it have to be subjective? Also, some people are ruining the thread.

 

[Ultimuru]

Sorry Granny

I am used to it.

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

Thank you for the confirmation, but I don't agree with this interpretation. As I already mentioned, it's talking about the situation. Besides, the FTL statement and the supposed constant speed would contradict the "to any point in time" interpretation. If Information Particles have a constant speed, then their speed shouldn't vary.

To not at

Stop using your incorrect interpretations.

 

[Pikamaru03]

First time posting here, but given the grammar confirmation just now I think this is worth raising.

I think it's worth separating two different things that have been getting conflated this whole thread: IP's spatial movement speed, and IP's access across linear time.

V23 only addresses the first one. Rimuru's "constant speed, FTL impossible" statement is specifically about how fast something moves through space. It says nothing about whether IP can access different points in time.

VSBW's own Immeasurable Speed criteria doesn't require FTL or infinite spatial speed at all. The standard is "movement unbound from the flow of linear time," and the page even states "being able to casually roam around freely across linear time qualifies for immeasurable speed." That's a completely separate axis from spatial speed.

With Raiki confirming the grammar (伝える + に = "to," not "at"), "transmit information to any point in time" reads literally as exactly that kind of free temporal access, independent of how fast IP moves spatially.

So regardless of how the V23 spatial speed dispute gets resolved, that doesn't actually block the Immeasurable claim, because Immeasurable isn't being argued on spatial grounds here, it's being argued on the temporal access grounds, which V23 never touches.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Bruh, this is pure physics regardless of how you try to dice it. The speed of light in a vacuum is 300,000,000 m/s and that's constant but it is lower when moving through a medium such as air or water. The rest of what you said is just plain old air resistance. None of this means the speed of light isn't constant in the verse

Yeah brings nothing new, basically what the opposition said earlier so not even worth another counter.

Yeah, by reflecting natural sunlight. Shocker.

Shocker indeed

Seems somehow you are not getting that it varies depending on the medium. Ciel didn't even say anything in what Elde sent, if anything, hadn't Rimuru lost Ciel at this point? He is just surprised that a digital lifeform can surpass light speed when their speed is supposed to be constant.

Holy larp, Rimuru already had Ciel back lmao
"He is just surprised that a digital lifeform can surpass light speed when their speed is supposed to be constant." quite literally what I said in another part of my reply (not to you) lol

But yeh none of this negates what I said.

So we about to start debating if moving in stopped time or timeless voids is infinite or immeasurable in 2026? There's no such thing as it not working, time just isn't applicable

Proof you're larping without understanding btw

Ngl, I admire how y'all can spin this web of convoluted stories so easily. Photons are indeed massless but infons have mass as close to zero as possible meaning not massless. Something can be smaller than another and still be heavier , it's called density.

Never heard of a thing called existential mass?
Their mass is "as close to zero" as possible. And zero is? It's nonexistence.

次の瞬間、起動した[黒炎核][アビスコア]がスイームの体内に向けて、溜め込んだ膨大なエネルギーを爆縮させる。その全てのエネルギーはスイームの中心部に集中して──そこに、ウルティマが生み出した『虚無』に至る〝扉〟が開かれた。プラスマイナス＝ゼロ。スイームは何が起きたのかも理解出来ぬまま、その場で『虚無』に呑まれたのだった。
V23

I mean, if it was about physical mass then they wouldn't be making up non-physical things. I'm pretty sure this was debated for quite a while in the thread BDE1 was accepted, iirc between me, code and either you or elde (or both),

No, it's constant.

Verse says: Is not constant
Opposition says: Na I'd Larp

Information transmission is instantaneous, movement of infons isn't instantaneous

Information transfers through the movement of infons lmao

Has nothing to do with that but I'll get to that later where you quoted me specifically

Has all the things to do with that.

No one contested this, it doesn't matter given that their speed is constant, the speed at which a non digital lifeform should be controlling them at should be the same because that what "constant" denotes.

No one contested it indeed, doesn't stop me from including it in a summary of what my argument is.
IP speed itself is constant, doesn't mean the processing speed of the receiver is as well (unless they're a dlf which are all infons themselves).

Bruh, can we see some scans rather than "trust me bro".

Le "Scan says: A is faster than B, B is faster than C", me says "So A is faster than C", opposition says: "Scan for that".

The "IP travels to different coordinates with 0 time lag " is a statement that comes after this whole discussion of why interfere with infons isn't enough and being a dlf is required.

Doesn't change a single thing in my argument btw.

At this rate, I might as well be replying to a wall. I don't need to get the previous thread rejected because regardless of the decision reached here, the infinite speed rating will stay until a separate thread is made to remove it. I am well within my rights to contest the current proposal without addressing the previous one.

Simple as that.

And I might be talking to a tree. You are basically doing a thing called "larping" here. Notice how you aren't tracking your own larp:

Now if you noticed, I keep quoting "speed" with a "?". This is because the apparent quickness at which information is transmitted between information particles does not denote speed of any sort. Speed is simply how long it takes a person or thing to cover a given distance. Infinite speed is travelling an infinite distance in any amount of time or a finite distance in zero time and immeasurable is movement unbound from the flow of linear time. If a phenomenon doesn't fit into this then regardless of its portrayal, it cannot be counted as speed.
Information particles have BDE Type 1 meaning they are independent of space and time (backed by the numerous scans sent here) so they do not fall under the constraints required for speed. It also doesn't require a third party or medium for the transfer of information. For this reason as well as the fact they aren't constrained by time, there is essentially no time lag in the process of sending and receiving information so as long as another particle exists in one's perceived space, information can be transmitted to it without the need to travel through space and time. Thanks to it's BDE 1 nature, this isn't a case of time being undefined but rather distance and time not being applicable so there's no speed at all.
~ You on page 2

Yeah, "fight me if you have the guts" might as well be the best way to put it. What's lame is that y'all aren't even making an effort to actually hide the purpose behind these hidden CRT's. Spinning a web of lies and proudly wearing it like a damn coat, can't even put in the effort to properly larp the agenda you pushing. Disappointing is all it is.

Oh spare me "hidding", the title of the thread said speed, the tags had speed tag in it
If you can't even find that then it's bad attention span ngl
And ya really be saying that while not looking at the horrendous titles and tags for your own verse? That's bad even as a larp.

Bruh, where, tf, is, the, proof?

READ.THE.PAGE

Is it really that hard to open Rimuru's page to check?

Rimuru Tempest (Light Novel)

Rimuru Tempest (リムル＝テンペスト, Rimuru Tenpesuto?), formerly known as Satoru Mikami (三上みかみ悟さとる, Mikami Satoru?), is the main protagonist of Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken. He is an Otherworlder reincarnated as a slime, and the sworn friend of the Storm Dragon Veldora Tempest. He is the founder and...

vsbattles.fandom.com

More like nonexistent reading comprehension so let me simplify it further. Infons don't strictly adhere to the characteristics BDE 1 things are supposed to display so, it is less that they are aspatial and atemporal and more that they are simply not constrained by space and time. Because of this, they can transfer information while bypassing the need for it to travel through space and expend time doing so.

Attendants of Mysteries grafting one location billions of kilometers away to their current one and bypassing the distance in a single step doesn't make them Massively FTL, they just don't have to travel that distance.

Ah yes, from "they are BDE1, so they can't be immeasurable speed, my argument isn't teleportation" to "they aren't BDE1", but they still aren't immeasurable speed" to "they aren't BDE1 and they bypass distance in a single step [congratulations, you just described teleportation". Very larpless behavior alr

The same inference can still be made. It appears to surpass that speed but doesn't surpass that speed because it is impeded by neither spatial nor temporal constraints= It isn't a matter of speed

Ah yes, the act of dodging when you realized your previous larp was a grammar victim.

The more I read your arguments, the more it shows you're hiding that "it's not speed but teleportation!" behind that blanket called larping.

Not doing this again. The proof is in the pudding so show me the goods.

Nice try. I'm a very simple man. I won't argue against someone who's right when I know I'm wrong. Also of note, I can be extremely petty if I choose to be so go ahead, keep riling me up, like a parasite, I'll stick to this thread and every other one as long as I'm aware of it regardless of how long it takes.

My reasoning is direct, travelling down a simple straight line meanwhile yours is not only indirect, it traces a long convoluted path through multiple branches to arrive at an absurd answer.
One of the points I brought up in my first message is how infons require no external media, space for example, to transfer information and aren't bound by time so the information can be transmitted even to the past. Lo and behold, one of the later scans sent by a third party separate from you and I confirmed it. The fact that I arrived at an answer corroborated by the story without even knowing about it prior speaks for itself.

???
I didn't even say that to you dude
Are you sure we're following the same timeline and not in different parallel universes?

The first thread left out important points by cropping scans. Tf is you on?

Go on and prove that in the downgrade thread, I dare you.

Ciel instantaneously talks to him because he is a part of him. Rimurus isn't a dlf so he cannot grasp the surrounding information with his body, he has to send out an infon and recall it to read the corresponding data.

This is quite literally what I said but worded differently

The lag is caused by the need to send out and recall the infon.

Why would the lag be because of infons if their speed is constant? Holy
Are we assuming rimuru magically already has infinite speed to process that data received at the same speed as infon transfer? You're gonna be the one to prove that, larper!

I've been telling y'al to stop contradicting yourselves way back even in 2024.

How about you also try learning some tracking skills? Cuz your attempts to hide your "my argument isn't BDE1" is horrendeous

D you even understand what it means for something to be said to be "constant"? Aconstant is something that does not change, vary or stop. It's an ongoing occurrence, a steadfast state or a fixed value. If the speed of infons are constant then regardless of who's controlling them, the speed should be the same. It doesn't matter if one is made out of it or simply controlling it. The speed of light in a given material is constant so regardless of whether one is made of photons or controlling photons, they move at the same speed in the same medium.

And I didn't say anything against this...?
I mean, since you're replying to my entire post instead of just the part I replied to you, is it really that hard to track me saying "you need time to process the info you receive from IP since they aren't...part of your own body. That is what creates the lag, essentially." that I said earlier in that same post?

Stopped time, timeless void ahh argument.

I had a snarky reply but you're just not worth it

Infinite speed < FTL fr

FR indeed

Being able to casually roam around freely across linear time qualifies for immeasurable speed. However, traveling to different time periods through movement is a common feat in fiction that often leads to inconsistencies and has been done via FTL travel or running laps around the earth faster than it rotates. This can lead to characters being assigned an additional, independent, speed rating for the ability. This should preferably be evaluated case by case.
Speed Page

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Also, request to both sides;

Can we just make a 10-point summary instead of going in circle so the staff can judge instead of making this a 10 page thread?
@EldemadeDityjon @Tatsumi504

Also, it'd be better if the opposition can make a single post for that instead of both presenting different summaries since... that'll just make the supporters' summary even longer, making this whole thing pointless. You guys can talk between yourself in dms and take that precious time, no hurries. This is just to stop circular arguments and let this thread conclude so we can all move on to do whatever we want.

Note: it's also preferable to keep each point short. If there's a lengthy explanation needed, it's better to use the link feature to link to a post that explained it, instead of making the summary itself as lengthy as our average post (which itself is worth a below average chapter of a novel in length lol)

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

If both sides can make a summary, I'll vote off that.

 

[SomebodyData]

If both sides can make a summary, I'll vote off that.

Same

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

It's true that に can mean either at or to depending on the context. However, in this sentence the verb is 伝える, so to is the correct interpretation here.

Can you translate this please.

ほぼ瞬間移動かと見紛うほどに、トップスピードまで一瞬で到達していた。
それは、スイーム以上の速度だ。
ここが〝停止世界〟でなければ、亜光速に達した衝撃波だけでも被害が甚大だったはずである。

Also, request to both sides;

Can we just make a 10-point summary instead of going in circle so the staff can judge instead of making this a 10 page thread?
@EldemadeDityjon @Tatsumi504

Also, it'd be better if the opposition can make a single post for that instead of both presenting different summaries since... that'll just make the supporters' summary even longer, making this whole thing pointless. You guys can talk between yourself in dms and take that precious time, no hurries. This is just to stop circular arguments and let this thread conclude so we can all move on to do whatever we want.

Note: it's also preferable to keep each point short. If there's a lengthy explanation needed, it's better to use the link feature to link to a post that explained it, instead of making the summary itself as lengthy as our average post (which itself is worth a below average chapter of a novel in length lol)

I can't say anything on behalf of Tatsumi he can make his own summary. I'll just write my own once the above scan gets translated. I'll keep it short anyway. Not writing any paragraphs.

 

[RaikiKurohane99]

Can you translate this please.

He had reached top speed in an instant, to such an extent that one could mistake it for almost being teleportation.
That was a speed exceeding even Suimu's
If this place had not been the Stopped World, even the shockwave that had reached sub light speed would likely have caused enormous damage.

 

[CongratulatorySnail399]

He had reached top speed in an instant, to such an extent that one could mistake it for almost being teleportation.
That was a speed exceeding even Suimu's
If this place had not been the Stopped World, even the shockwave that had reached sub light speed would likely have caused enormous damage.

If you don’t mind could you also translate this?

この神之怒というのは、光速という物理法則の限界速度に限りなく近い。若干のロスがあるものの、人間如きが視認してから回避出来るような性質の攻撃ではないのだよ。

I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[RaikiKurohane99]

translate

Correct me if I'm wrong, but since this passage is from Tensura, isn't this attack called Megido?
If so, shouldn't the furigana メギド‬‏ be written above 神之怒?
I stopped reading the Japanese version around Volume 6, but I remember the furigana being メギド, which is read as Megido, right?
Or is this actually a different attack whose name is Wrath of God

can y send img ?

 

[CongratulatorySnail399]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but since this passage is from Tensura, isn't this attack called Megido?
If so, shouldn't the furigana メギド‬‏ be written above 神之怒?
I stopped reading the Japanese version around Volume 6, but I remember the furigana being メギド, which is read as Megido, right?
Or is this actually a different attack whose name is Wrath of God

can y send img ?

Here's the link

https://i.gyazo.com/bdde0f0d7d3bc124c608ef47668f3ccc.png

 

[RaikiKurohane99]

Here's the link

https://i.gyazo.com/bdde0f0d7d3bc124c608ef47668f3ccc.png

This Megido (Wrath of God) is infinitely close to the limit speed of the physical law known as the speed of light. Although there is a slight loss, it is not the kind of attack whose nature allows a mere human to evade it after visually perceiving it.
There is compatibility in all things, so if it had been the Orc Disaster, its recovery would probably have made it in time.

 

[CongratulatorySnail399]

This Megido (Wrath of God) is infinitely close to the limit speed of the physical law known as the speed of light. Although there is a slight loss, it is not the kind of attack whose nature allows a mere human to evade it after visually perceiving it.
There is compatibility in all things, so if it had been the Orc Disaster, its recovery would probably have made it in time.

圧倒的な戦闘センスと破壊力を見るに、近接戦闘ならばヴェガよりも上だった。物理法則の限界を超えた動きから察するに、精神生命体に近い存在であると確信する。

Sorry if it seems like I’m bothering you, but could you also please translate this.

I would greatly appreciate it and thank you for your hard work

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Sorry if it seems like I’m bothering you, but could you also please translate this.

I would greatly appreciate it and thank you for your hard work

Are you going to use that Translations to make any comments here or just asking for something else? If it's the latter just ask them in DM or translation thread.

 

[ReasonedZebra834]

C

Você vai usar essas traduções para fazer algum comentário aqui ou apenas para pedir algo? Se for a segunda opção, pergunte por mensagem direta ou no tópico de tradução.

Calm down, let the man work.

 

[RaikiKurohane99]

translate

Spoiler

Judging from the overwhelming combat sense and destructive power, in close quarters combat he was superior to Vega. From movements that exceeded the limits of the laws of physics, I inferred and became convinced that he was an existence close to a spiritual life form.

 

[Rutæhh]

disagree with immeasurable, downgrade to relativistic

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Bump

 

[Ultimuru]

Bump

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

Bump

 

[AlexSamDen]

Can you translate this please.



I can't say anything on behalf of Tatsumi he can make his own summary. I'll just write my own once the above scan gets translated. I'll keep it short anyway. Not writing any paragraphs.

Hello

I'm here to remind you of this

If you are unable to write such, please say so

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Hello

I'm here to remind you of this

If you are unable to write such, please say so

Where is your summary dude? Before telling others you should drop yours.

 

[AlexSamDen]

Where is your summary dude? Before telling others you should drop yours.

1) You told you'll write yours, hence the wait for you

2) The first summary is the OP. You, as the opposition, need to make a summary of arguments against the OP. Only then we can make a summary why the OP is still valid

That's simply the alternating order pattern (+ - +), which makes it easier for Staff to evaluate

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

1) You told you'll write yours, hence the wait for you

Astral also said he will drop his summary. Idk why "you" only refers to me. Did staff said they are only wanting my summary on this?

2) The first summary is the OP. You, as the opposition, need to make a summary of arguments against the OP. Only then we can make a summary why the OP is still valid

That's simply the alternating order pattern (+ - +), which makes it easier for Staff to evaluate

? We already had 3 pages of arguments. The staff didn't say that only the opposition should write their summary. Even Astral's comment says that both sides should write their summary and keep it simple.

I don't know what you're on about. The OP is the summary?
There are already 3 pages of arguments, and you should already have enough information on what opposition arguments are and easy to write your summary. It shouldn't be, "Let's wait for the opposition to drop their summary, and then we'll make up extra stuff."

Drop your Summary on that not asking for me to comment first.

 

[Cipher72]

Do a wild west standoff with summaries

 

[Ultimuru]

"Let's wait for the opposition to drop their summary, and then we'll make up extra stuff."

Elde sharing his strategies with us, how nice of him ♡

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Elde sharing his strategies with us, how nice of him ♡

Idk why it's so hard for you to understand that Alex is the one leaking your strategy here . He failed you guys by revealing your grand plan.

 

[DragoZeroNova]

If both sides are believe that sending a summary first would be a severe disadvantage, then both sides should decide on neutral member(s) (such as staff who haven't voted/aren't interested in voting/random ass VSBattles users who literally haven't heard of a Ryhimerruw before), complete their summary, send it to those member(s) and have them post just the summary. That way, neither of your summaries will have content added in response to the other summary. It may not be the best way to do this (since it brings up the possibility of points that go unanswered by one side), but if bias/additional content is that big of an issue, then that's probably the only real solution.

If that solution doesn't work, then maybe give up or something idk this isn't that big of a deal.

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

Astral also said he will drop his summary. Idk why "you" only refers to me. Did staff said they are only wanting my summary on this?

? We already had 3 pages of arguments. The staff didn't say that only the opposition should write their summary. Even Astral's comment says that both sides should write their summary and keep it simple.

I don't know what you're on about. The OP is the summary?
There are already 3 pages of arguments, and you should already have enough information on what opposition arguments are and easy to write your summary. It shouldn't be, "Let's wait for the opposition to drop their summary, and then we'll make up extra stuff."

Drop your Summary on that not asking for me to comment first.

You're completely reversing the roles.

The OP is already our position and our arguments. There is absolutely no logic in asking us to summarize our own position again before the opposition has even summarized its objections.

You are the opposing side. Therefore, your job is to compile all of the objections that you claim refute the OP. Only after that is it our turn to respond to your summary, explain why those objections fail, and demonstrate why the OP still stands.

By asking us to post our summary first, you're effectively asking us to respond to objections that haven't even been summarized yet. That is procedurally nonsensical and serves no purpose in helping the staff evaluate the discussion.

If you truly believe your objections are sufficient to overturn the OP, then summarizing them shouldn't be a problem. You've already presented those objections throughout the discussion. Now it's your responsibility to consolidate them into a single summary. After that, we'll provide our final summary in response.

Trying to shift the burden of going first onto the OP changes nothing. You are still the opposition, and the opposition's summary should come before the OP's final response. That's the only logical sequence, as it allows the staff to directly compare the opposition's summarized objections with the OP's response, rather than turning the entire process upside down for no valid reason.

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

I'll say this once, and I won't repeat it.

The OP will not post its summary until the opposition posts theirs.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

You're completely reversing the roles.

The OP is already our position and our arguments. There is absolutely no logic in asking us to summarize our own position again before the opposition has even summarized its objections.

You are the opposing side. Therefore, your job is to compile all of the objections that you claim refute the OP. Only after that is it our turn to respond to your summary, explain why those objections fail, and demonstrate why the OP still stands.

By asking us to post our summary first, you're effectively asking us to respond to objections that haven't even been summarized yet. That is procedurally nonsensical and serves no purpose in helping the staff evaluate the discussion.

If you truly believe your objections are sufficient to overturn the OP, then summarizing them shouldn't be a problem. You've already presented those objections throughout the discussion. Now it's your responsibility to consolidate them into a single summary. After that, we'll provide our final summary in response.

Trying to shift the burden of going first onto the OP changes nothing. You are still the opposition, and the opposition's summary should come before the OP's final response. That's the only logical sequence, as it allows the staff to directly compare the opposition's summarized objections with the OP's response, rather than turning the entire process upside down for no valid reason.

That isn't how the burden of discussion works.

There's no rule saying we have to post our summary first. If we want to summarize our position afterward, that's shouldn't be an issue. The OP is the one making the claim, so it's on them to prove it from beginning to end. That's why it's common for the OP to post the final TL;DR first. A final summary also isn't supposed to be a rebuttal to the opposition's summary. It's meant to restate why the OP's position still holds after taking all the objections raised throughout the thread into account. We've already presented our objections during the discussion, and they're all there for everyone—including the staff—to review. The OP's TL;DR should simply summarize their position and address the main points of disagreement, rather than waiting for us to repeat arguments we've already made. If we think anything important was left unanswered, we can always respond to the OP's summary afterward. So this isn't "reversing the roles." The roles stay exactly the same: the OP defends their claim, and we explain why we think that claim doesn't hold up.

I'll say this once, and I won't repeat it.

The OP will not post its summary until the opposition posts theirs.

Then wait for as long as you could.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Snip

How about this:

If both sides are believe that sending a summary first would be a severe disadvantage, then both sides should decide on neutral member(s) (such as staff who haven't voted/aren't interested in voting/random ass VSBattles users who literally haven't heard of a Ryhimerruw before), complete their summary, send it to those member(s) and have them post just the summary. That way, neither of your summaries will have content added in response to the other summary. It may not be the best way to do this (since it brings up the possibility of points that go unanswered by one side), but if bias/additional content is that big of an issue, then that's probably the only real solution.

If that solution doesn't work, then maybe give up or something idk this isn't that big of a deal.

Since @SomebodyData and @ActuallySpaceMan42 haven't voted yet, we can get help from them on this. I already asked both in private and they both said they're willing.

 

[Hecky2222]

I would js give suggestion of posting at same time based on some UTC time, if both sides somewhat scared to post first and other gets prep time to counter wtv. So that after posting summary you would js be summarizing all ur arguments till now rather than giving summary against summary. Idt in that case some side gets mad.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

How about this:

Since @SomebodyData and @ActuallySpaceMan42 haven't voted yet, we can get help from them on this. I already asked both in private and they both said they're willing.

Yeah I'm fine with giving them the summary directly.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Yeah I'm fine with giving them the summary directly.

Yeah, that feels like the best option.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Yeah I'm fine with giving them the summary directly.

K. Which one do you chose? (Space or Data)
If u don't wanna chose then I'll just go with Space, since he's more active.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

K. Which one do you chose? (Space or Data)
If u don't wanna chose then I'll just go with Space, since he's more active.

I'm fine with space just tell him to check his message box. I'm currently not at home. I'll share him my Summary later. I'll tell Tatsumi to do the same.

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

I'm fine with space just tell him to check his message box. I'm currently not at home. I'll share him my Summary later. I'll tell Tatsumi to do the same.

A summary in 10 points or less, is that correct?
To know if we will all provide a summary in 10 points or if you might provide a summary in more than 10 points