Dragon Ball Heroes: A CRT that doesn't even exist

[Random-Helper323]

They are surrendering themselves to tears over a grievance so insubstantial that it scarcely deserves the dignity of being named

Can I ask you to stop being antagonistic here, please? I understand these discussions get heated easily, but we should all try to conduct ourselves civilly.

 

[BoastJr]

When will you guys upgrade them to 1-A Via Dokkan Battles

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

I'm sorry, but how do we know that this specific mention of time of a Guidebook from 2003 uses the terminology of time from Dragon Ball Xenoverse/Heroes, when it came 12 years before the first Xenoverse game and 7 years before the first DBH content? How do we know the author meant by time the all encompassing history yada yada that Chronoa and all Time Patrols use of time if, at that time, none of these concepts were created and most likely not even conceived?

Hell, how do we even treat these spaces as part of a timeline (per OP, the IT realm is part of the subspace, which is contained in one timeline), i.e., of  history if they lack the aspect of history?

Oh, and now that we brought that page up, can we, please, delete the "Logic" section that was rejected to actually qualify per the new standards in a previous CRT made by OP?

Isn’t 'history' just a more elegant way of framing the causal sequence of events within time?

 

[RaikiKurohane99]

Reading the thread, I also find myself disagreeing. There are a lot of contradictions in the scans to other scans, like Time-based abilities working in a realm that's supposed to lack time, or the same powers working in a beyond-dimensional (type 1) realm. There is also no 'Nonexistent History' here in the sense we treat it as.

Also, something simply not participating in history doesn't make it have a 'Nonexistent history' in the Nonexistent Type 1 sense that can further derive NEP2. This is the same as a rock lacking a mind. That doesn't make the rock suddenly NEP

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Isn’t 'history' just a more elegant way of framing the causal sequence of events within time?

Not in DBH. Per the terminology page, History includes timeline, space-time, causality, past present and future, dimension (as in parallel world) and mathematical dimension (as in dimensionality; spatial or temporal axis).

 

[Hecky2222]

Isn’t 'history' just a more elegant way of framing the causal sequence of events within time?

Pretty much, but for some reason they seem like to accepted termin history ======== timeline so we are getting NEP Timeline out of nowhere cuz uhhhh terminology.

 

[Killerdrone123]

Isn’t 'history' just a more elegant way of framing the causal sequence of events within time?

It refers to timelines in dbh you can check the terminology page for scans

 

[Ultimuru]

Again as per the cosmology page Subspace was accepted as NEP realm. However in the game verse we know that Instant Transmission teleport the user into a space that transcends time, this space is part of the Subspace. So that means Subspace transcends time

"In the theatrical version, teleportation seems to be interpreted as "passing through a different space that transcends time."

So how do we exactly know teleportation zone is subspace? Nothing in this scan seems to refer to that. It may be as well a completely different dimension of time which can be accessed only by teleportation. Not sure also how clip from the movie proves this space is a part of subspace too.

As far as I know, GT follows continuity of movies and DBZ so subspace is a thing there too. Sugoroku space collapsed and Goku both with two Tanukis could freely float in subspace which is supposed to be timeless and spaceless but at the same time contain domains with a timeflow? Either I don't get something here or subspace is one big mess in general. Zeno also got a feat of erasing subspace along with the timeline. How something lacking space and time conceptually is at the same time a part of the timeline is a mystery to me.

So TL;DR I don't see why IT zone = Subspace and Subspace is a mess in general.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Isn’t 'history' just a more elegant way of framing the causal sequence of events within time?

Pretty much, but for some reason they seem like to accepted termin history ======== timeline so we are getting NEP Timeline out of nowhere cuz uhhhh terminology.

Yeah

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon_Ball_(Games)_Terminology

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

So, I am curious, are we turning this thread into a debunk thread, or is someone else gonna create that one, for the clear problem with the current rating?

 

[Mbpoops]

So like isnt the main way of travel in dragonball heros through the time axis? How tf did they get to a place with no time through the time axis? Towa specifically too since literally all she does is go through the timeline

 

[StrymULTRA]

So like isnt the main way of travel in dragonball heros through the time axis? How tf did they get to a place with no time through the time axis? Towa specifically too since literally all she does is go through the timeline

Tbf the same happened in DBS, but they have the excuse of using coordinates and not really a time axis to travel between different eras of alternate timelines.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

So, the world of emptiness is also considered to have no concept of time and space, and the anime also mentions that it doesn't exist. Shouldn't that serve some purpose?

 

[Azertyhuuh]

So like isnt the main way of travel in dragonball heros through the time axis? How tf did they get to a place with no time through the time axis? Towa specifically too since literally all she does is go through the timeline

This is merely dimensional travel, so there is no contradiction here, and this was already clarified in the characters' profiles as well.

• Dimensional Travel & Time Travel (Instant Transmission sends user into another dimension of inconsistent appearance. This dimension is a subspace that transcends time, a part of the overarching Subspace that has no concept of space and time, allowing Goku to travel to new locations instantaneously. He can also fight whilst doing so, attacking others from this Dimension whilst they themselves cannot attack him. Unlike in Canon or Toei continuity, Game version of Instant Transmission[99] allows Goku to transcend space and time itself, capable of travelling not only between dimensions but also[100] to different[100] points[101] in time.[102] flew from the Prison Planet, which only exists in the future, back to the present.[102][103][100][104])

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

For the whole Subspace = Teleportation Zone thing, to put it very simply, the Supreme Kai uses his teleportation to take Goku from Earth to the Kaioshin Realm and they're visually seen in the "Teleportation Zone". Kai Kai users (like Kid Buu) can enter the same Teleportation Zone just like IT users can so they enter the same realm using different techniques. He then drops Goku and he falls into the Sugoroku Space which is within the Subspace. The fact that Goku can just fall into a realm within the Subspace while falling within the Teleportation Zone means the Subspace and Teleportation Zone are the same. Simple case of putting two and two together

 

[Ultimuru]

For the whole Subspace = Teleportation Zone thing, to put it very simply, the Supreme Kai uses his teleportation to take Goku from Earth to the Kaioshin Realm and they're visually seen in the "Teleportation Zone".

Where it's stated Kais uses subspace to travel? I know he lost Goku and he woke up in Sugoroku space (which is in subspace) but that honestly doesn't prove anything. Teleportation Zone spreads everywhere since users can teleport even between realms. Subspace is outside of universe just like Kai realm. So it is possible that when Shin lost Goku, Goku got kicked out of TP zone, landed in subspace and there he got kidnapped by guys from Sugoroku space.

Kai Kai users (like Kid Buu) can enter the same Teleportation Zone just like IT users can so they enter the same realm using different techniques.

I don't thinkt opening to a game can be used as a proof in this case? Even if this could, it's definitely not subspace as we can literally see tablets with images there. It's anything but subspace.

He then drops Goku and he falls into the Sugoroku Space which is within the Subspace. The fact that Goku can just fall into a realm within the Subspace while falling within the Teleportation Zone means the Subspace and Teleportation Zone are the same.

I don't think he fall into that realm. I think Sugoroku guy (I don't remember his correct name) took him there. It would be strange if Goku fall into subspace and then suddenly spawn in this place. It's as if he would spawn in the time chamber. Especially considering Sugoroku space seems to be a material place since Goku literally collapsed it with his kamehameha. So him coming out of nowhere inside makes even less sense. Someone had to take him there.

Simple case of putting two and two together

More like adding own context to someone what was never stated and using it as a fact...

Anyway, I have no proofs for IT zone NOT being a subspace, but at the same time IT zone was never mentioned or referred as subspace either. Your and mine opinion has the same value, but because both are not confirmed, I stay with my word to NOT consider IT zone as a confirmed subspace. Unless someone bring me more proofs other than Budokai Tenkaichi opening

 

[SuperNova55555]

Again everyone can have different interpretations there is a direct statement of it lacking time and i.t stuff directly proofs there being absence of time on its own,you to prove why this statement doesn't hold in literal sense cause now your entire argument is "i don't feel like it"

Because the fact that is “beyond time” or the sort has to be holistically related to its usage for instantaneous travel. There can simply be many explanations for this. One would be, as I mentioned earlier, that time does not flow or something of the sort. We could debate about the parsimony of it all you want but generally it’s pretty much a site standard to lowball stuff anyways. Especially considering you don’t even know in what sense it is “beyond time” per se.

Maybe in future who knows there are other supporting stuff for it but again it clearly isn't the goal of this thread

Please don’t

 

[Bahaha]

Reading the thread, I also find myself disagreeing. There are a lot of contradictions in the scans to other scans, like Time-based abilities working in a realm that's supposed to lack time, or the same powers working in a beyond-dimensional (type 1) realm. There is also no 'Nonexistent History' here in the sense we treat it as.

Also, something simply not participating in history doesn't make it have a 'Nonexistent history' in the Nonexistent Type 1 sense that can further derive NEP2. This is the same as a rock lacking a mind. That doesn't make the rock suddenly NEP

If it was accepted after the standards were changed, then I won't argue against it further. But you could probably use an improvement in wording or a Note to explain "Time" includes timeless realms for whatever reason.

Also, I found that the translation is a bit wrong:

Can you check the translations in this thread?

 

[Theglassman12]

So the whole “nonexistent history” thing wasn’t actually talking about it being a void and just it being disconnected from time, and even that has some questionable instances?