UNDERTALE/DELTARUNE [shiny new] DISCUSSION THEAD

[Moon_Crasher]

Guess I might as well talk about two of the Undertale calcs I plan to eventually make after my others get evaluated.

Flowey tunneling through rock/metal
I'll use the bottom of Flowey's stem to get the area (since his face is malleable and can shapeshift somewhat), use shear strength (gets decent LS), and use his height to get the work done.

Mettaton EX/NEO explosion
I'll measure Mettaton EX's size in the overworld (I'll assume NEO is the same height) and measure that to the blast or just use the already accept 1-meter-long ACT button to get the explosion size. I'd use psi 4 for EX's explosion (since damaged his metal body which is likely steel based on the bolts on EX's face and the "glass" seems to be just as durable as any other area) and psi 20 for NEO's explosion since it completely destroyed him with nothing remaining which is probably more impressive than causing severe damage to reinforced concrete.

Then I'd use Frisk's arm length to get their distance from the blast (since they were at least close enough to punch Mettaton and strike him with their various weapons) and see how much they tanked.

This is all around wall level btw.

 

[Qurbonboev]

AFAIK someone tried to calculate KE and speed of Omega Flowey giant stems (ones that captures monsters, before Asriel fight). Can someone link it?

 

[Axorandom0]

AFAIK someone tried to calculate KE and speed of Omega Flowey giant stems (ones that captures monsters, before Asriel fight). Can someone link it?

I only remember someone calculating it offsite. It got just under 600 kJ

 

[Moon_Crasher]

I only remember someone calculating it offsite. It got just under 600 kJ

Maybe I'll use the pixel scaling from that blog and redo that calc using Asgore's overworld height.

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

 

[Axorandom0]

insane implications

 

[Moon_Crasher]

Maybe I'll use the pixel scaling from that blog and redo that calc using Asgore's overworld height.

It's a little bit over 331 kilojoules.

 

[Moon_Crasher]

It's a little bit over 331 kilojoules.

Actually, I might be able to use the fact that the vine blitzed them to get a higher speed...

 

[Moon_Crasher]

Actually, I might be able to use the fact that the vine blitzed them to get a higher speed...

Using 0.08 seconds, I get a speed of over 114.5 m/s (it was originally under 20 m/s btw) and I get a KE of over 10.9 megajoules.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Using 0.08 seconds, I get a speed of over 114.5 m/s (it was originally under 20 m/s btw) and I get a KE of over 10.9 megajoules.

Who exactly would scale to this? (Besides Omega Flowey himself)?

 

[Randomuser3412]

Actually, I might be able to use the fact that the vine blitzed them to get a higher speed...

They weren't even looking at it...?

 

[Moon_Crasher]

They weren't even looking at it...?

Well, I said I might be able to use it.

But I'm pretty sure it would still be in their peripheral vision, it being a sprite-based game makes it kinda hard to tell though.

Also, by going frame by frame I notice that they only start reacting after being hit.

But tbh, I'm not even really sure if the vine feat is even valid at all. It could just be a limited animation to represent Flowey grabbing them, but the vine seemingly hitting them and then completely different vines wrapping around make me think that maybe Flowey just hit them with that vine to knock them off guard so he could trap them with different vines, so maybe the feat is valid idk?

Blitzing is probably a stretch though.

 

[Moon_Crasher]

Who exactly would scale to this? (Besides Omega Flowey himself)?

Basically everyone since they all got hit by the vine and even sans survived it.

 

[Moon_Crasher]

Well, I said I might be able to use it.

But I'm pretty sure it would still be in their peripheral vision, it being a sprite-based game makes it kinda hard to tell though.

Also, by going frame by frame I notice that they only start reacting after being hit.

But tbh, I'm not even really sure if the vine feat is even valid at all. It could just be a limited animation to represent Flowey grabbing them, but the vine seemingly hitting them and then completely different vines wrapping around make me think that maybe Flowey just hit them with that vine to knock them off guard so he could trap them with different vines, so maybe the feat is valid idk?

Blitzing is probably a stretch though.

It looks like they only start reacting until after they get hit, notice how sans does not care about the big vine plowing through his friends until it hits him. (Probably just limited graphics tbh)

 

[Randomuser3412]

Well, I said I might be able to use it.

But I'm pretty sure it would still be in their peripheral vision, it being a sprite-based game makes it kinda hard to tell though.

If someone runs up to you and punches you in the side of the head while you're chatting with a pal, I don't think you've been "blitzed."

It looks like they only start reacting until after they get hit, notice how sans does not care about the big vine plowing through his friends until it hits him. (Probably just limited graphics tbh)

 

[Qurbonboev]

If someone runs up to you and punches you in the side of the head while you're chatting with a pal, I don't think you've been "blitzed."

His vines makes sound as they knock out monsters. Sans should have been able to react to it before vines came to him

 

[Qurbonboev]

Spoiler

Calcs
AP:
Undyne smashes hockey puck into sky: 617 joules, possibly 2.44 kg of TNT
Undyne saves Monster kid: 71679 joules
Mettaton destroys boxes: 1.55 and 3.48 kg of TNT
Asgore moves trident: 888396 joules and 34.3 kg of TNT

Speed:
Asgore launches and swings his trident: 40.88 m/s and Mach 1.514
Gaster blaster speed: 153 m/s

LS:
Asgore moves trident: 1.06 tonnes, 133 tonnes and 3378 tonnes

Miscellaneous:
Gaster Blaster range: 5.1 meters

 

[Qurbonboev]

Spoiler

Calcs
AP:
Undyne smashes hockey puck into sky: 617 joules, possibly 2.44 kg of TNT
Undyne saves Monster kid: 71679 joules
Mettaton destroys boxes: 1.55 and 3.48 kg of TNT
Asgore moves trident: 888396 joules and 34.3 kg of TNT

Speed:
Asgore launches and swings his trident: 40.88 m/s and Mach 1.514
Gaster blaster speed: 153 m/s

LS:
Asgore moves trident: 1.06 tonnes, 133 tonnes and 3378 tonnes

Miscellaneous:
Gaster Blaster range: 5.1 meters

Does anyone have anything substantial to add to this?

 

[Randomuser3412]

His vines makes sound as they knock out monsters. Sans should have been able to react to it before vines came to him

Flowey's vines don't have powernull -- we see the monsters use their magic afterwards. Sans could have teleported out of them if he really wanted to, he's just choosing not to do anything.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Flowey's vines don't have powernull -- we see the monsters use their magic afterwards. Sans could have teleported out of them if he really wanted to, he's just choosing not to do anything.

If your argument is "Sans wasn't blitzed, he just chose to not fight", fine. But they blitzed other monsters, including Papyrus (who was 5-10 meter afar from Asgore when vines knocked him out)

 

[Randomuser3412]

If your argument is "Sans wasn't blitzed, he just chose to not fight", fine. But they blitzed other monsters, including Papyrus (who was 5-10 meter afar from Asgore when vines knocked him out)

"Sans wasn't blitzed, he just chose not to act" is a part of it (mainly because of his Instinctive Action), but ALL of them were caught off guard and absolutely not expecting Flowey to suddenly show up. It doesn't matter if they realistically would have been able to hear it or something. They were not expecting anything of the sort to happen and wouldn't be able to react.

I'm sorry, but I can't imagine that even you believe what you're saying here or it's in good faith at all. This one of the clearest off-guard attacks that I've ever seen

 

[Qurbonboev]

Snip

Asgore was caught off guard. Others should have been able to hear vines before they caught them too

Regardless it doesn't matter. We can't prove that Flowey didn't hold back in this occasion, so scaling monsters to KE is dubious

 

[Randomuser3412]

Asgore was caught off guard. Others should have been able to hear vines before they caught them too

They were ALL caught off guard... that's what "caught off guard" means. They weren't expecting to get jumped by a little evil flower. The blitz timeframe only applies if they were actually locked in and prepared for it and not just "oh, I heard a strange sound while I was looking away." Genuinely comical.

 

[Axorandom0]

Unfortunately the non blitz timeframe makes more sense to me. Tho we could always put both ends into a calc blog, give arguments for both ends, and then leave it up to the evaluators to decide.

 

[Moon_Crasher]

I think sans probably just doesn't care. He literally says "huh? you haven't beaten this guy yet?". He just doesn't seem to view Flowey as an actual threat, even with the souls, because Frisk is the main character in a video game, which means they're just gonna win anyways.

 

[Qurbonboev]

DELTARUNE TOMORROW!!!

 

[LittleGuy99]

DELTARUNE TOMORROW!!!

YESSSSSSS
Also Tenna stuff:

 

[Randomuser3412]

YESSSSSSS
Also Tenna stuff:

Just think about how there's a timeline in which the Tenna 3D model is available to the public...

 

[LittleGuy99]

DELTARUNE TOMORROW!!!

 

[ShionAH]

Should I make a Sans/Undertale Staff Thread to decide how his 4th wall breaking would fully work in vs threads

 

[DaReaperMan]

Should I make a Sans/Undertale Staff Thread to decide how his 4th wall breaking would fully work in vs threads

Honestly? Probably a good idea.

 

[ShionAH]

Honestly? Probably a good idea.

Compliment me more

 

[Arceus0x]

Compliment me more

We love tolerating you

 

[God_of_perversion]

God Sans 4th wall break is such BS bro
Grnuinely we should just add law manip to it since it will make more sense that way specially in a versus matchup
Sans 4th wall breaks were usually just ignored in versus treads but people started to notice how BS it is

 

[Arceus0x]

God Sans 4th wall break is such BS bro
Grnuinely we should just add law manip to it since it will make more sense that way specially in a versus matchup
Sans 4th wall breaks were usually just ignored in versus treads but people started to notice how BS it is

I don't think winning by leaving should work. Just because it's counted as a victory in the game itself (and not consistently, sparing all bosses for example simply makes you leave the fight) shouldn't mean it's a victory in a vs match.

 

[God_of_perversion]

I don't think winning by leaving should work. Just because it's counted as a victory in the game itself (and not consistently, sparing all bosses for example simply makes you leave the fight) shouldn't mean it's a victory in a vs match.

Well i actively believe that the battle system is law manip (Rouxls kinda proves that) so Sans winning by leaving the battle is just another form of law manip

 

[Arceus0x]

Well i actively believe that the battle system is law manip (Rouxls kinda proves that) so Sans winning by leaving the battle is just another form of law manip

Considering you can leave the battle and lose in the system that's cool and all... but doesn't work when the opponent just attacks again. The law manip in question doesn't stop you from fighting again and unless the rule of the vs match itself is that they have to win the encounter. Even then, range basically nullifies the encounter rule as we know Undyne's attacks don't force you into an encounter with her from a distance but an encounter with the attack itself. To illustrate, Sans fights Alakazam at a 100m range and Alakazam would just fold him with a psychic attack. Another example - Sans fights Frieza, leaves the battle every time, winning the encounter, Frieza gets angry, flies up and blows up the entire mountain. Sans would be cooked here as well.

In short, if it is law hax it should be limited to certain conditions and shouldn't bypass SBA.

Also we shouldn't use Deltarune stuff here since DT encounters are different, like the fact that overworld bullethells in UT result in an encounter with the attack pattern whilst the same in DT is fully controlled by the body.

 

[LittleGuy99]

I hope to finish writing my minor Deltarune CRT before tomorrow

 

[Mommyleona]

God Sans 4th wall break is such BS bro
Grnuinely we should just add law manip to it since it will make more sense that way specially in a versus matchup
Sans 4th wall breaks were usually just ignored in versus treads but people started to notice how BS it is

Is it really? I dont really get how it can help in a vs match up, where characters arent bound by game mechanics

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Is it really? I dont really get how it can help in a vs match up, where characters arent bound by game mechanics

Verse Equalization stuff, that's why Monika can delete the computer files of comic characters and the like.