Black Clover: Doom's Gate Chrono Anastasis

[ElJoaki5]

Introduction
In this thread made some time ago, it was agreed that the previous calculation for the Doom's Gate ought to be discarded, due to using angsizing for the meteor which was deemed to be inaccurate due to it being too big of a body and too far away.

It was already established in that thread that the Destruction of the Clover Kingdom calc is only a replacement that is used due to not having any other better option and that supporters can find better alternatives. In that case I’m making this thread to propose a better option.

Recalculation
The views on the meteor are either angsize views or views with characters massively smaller than it, both suck. However there is one singular view that is an exception to this and this wasn’t brought up in the previous thread.

Using this view, I've pixelscaled the size of the meteor, since you can see the stratosphere in this shot and use it as reference for the door, which is then a reference for the size of the meteor. Sure you have to draw some reference lines, but this doesn’t invalidate it in any way and it's way better than literally nothing as well as the only way to calc it.

Using the size found from that, I've simply redone the previous calc by changing the value for the size of the meteor. Size which coincidentally or not, happens to be quite consistent with the previously used Angsizing size, though slightly smaller. The new calculation would still need to be evaled however.

That's it for the first Black Clover calc fix.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

I disagree, 5-B meteor or nothing

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

When should I go for universal black clover

 

[Floxy178]

Unfortunately I have to disagree. In the expanding door part, choosing point that hypothetical expanded end be at when being equally far from POV as red line/horizon seems pretty arbitrary, since we don't know if door is exactly at the direction of top of red line (and it probably isn't, roughly looking at the scene). So it can go that far while ending up way higher than red line, with visualization in the blog it'd just align with POV-red line, but not necessarily be that far.

I'll look if I can find another method this weekend, but can't promise anything.

 

[ElJoaki5]

Unfortunately I have to disagree. In the expanding door part, choosing point that hypothetical expanded end be at when being equally far from POV as red line/horizon seems pretty arbitrary, since we don't know if door is exactly at the direction of top of red line (and it probably isn't, roughly looking at the scene). So it can go that far while ending up way higher than red line, with visualization in the blog it'd just align with POV-red line, but not necessarily be that far.

I suppose that what you’re referring to is something like this. Imagine the red line to be the 110 km line i drew and the green line to be the door. The door is parallel to the sphere, that is Earth, on the point it is above.

However due to the curvature of the earth, extending the door's outline in that direction (yellow) until reaching that height wouldn't make it end up in the same plane as the 110 km line. But rather it'd be closer to the camera and give a result greater than it's actual size. I didn’t think about that when I made the calc.

I'll look if I can find another method this weekend, but can't promise anything.

As for the replacement to this. Me and someone else have each prepared a proposal as to how to calc the feat, however we'd also like to see what you come up with.

 

[Floxy178]

I suppose that what you’re referring to is something like this. Imagine the red line to be the 110 km line i drew and the green line to be the door. The door is parallel to the sphere, that is Earth, on the point it is above.

However due to the curvature of the earth, extending the door's outline in that direction (yellow) until reaching that height wouldn't make it end up in the same plane as the 110 km line. But rather it'd be closer to the camera and give a result greater than it's actual size. I didn’t think about that when I made the calc.

Yeah exactly.

As for the replacement to this. Me and someone else have each prepared a proposal as to how to calc the feat, however we'd also like to see what you come up with.

Sure, I'll inform if mine won't work later today.

 

[Floxy178]

As for the replacement to this. Me and someone else have each prepared a proposal as to how to calc the feat, however we'd also like to see what you come up with.

Mine roughly gave me 16.24 km for door width, but I guess it's too low for the verse? Could you share your replacement?

 

[Arkenis]

Should probably ping whoever disagreed before, I vaguely remember there being extra issues with the size due to Asta's sword. Is that still an issue with this new calculation?

 

[Rodriiogo]

(I am the "someone else" Joaki mentioed)

Mine roughly gave me 16.24 km for door width, but I guess it's too low for the verse? Could you share your replacement?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Rodriiogo/Black_Clover:_Doom's_Gate

I personally think ang-sizing is still the best way in this case, the entire explanation to why I think it's valid is in the blog itself so I won't blab much about it here.

I used every single view of the meteor from people on earth and it does seem very consistent and way more narratively supported by the story than what the thread to "debunk" it tried to push (100m) through a singular shot where the character is supposed to be in view which I think should not take precedence over multiple consistent shots like that, views of it being big compared to the literal planet itself, and the story itself.

Just in this case, to avoid the need to search for it, here's basically the entire scene with the meteor:

• Summoning
• Entire scene from when Asta gets powered until it gets cut

 

[Xinsignia1]

I suppose that what you’re referring to is something like this. Imagine the red line to be the 110 km line i drew and the green line to be the door. The door is parallel to the sphere, that is Earth, on the point it is above.

However due to the curvature of the earth, extending the door's outline in that direction (yellow) until reaching that height wouldn't make it end up in the same plane as the 110 km line. But rather it'd be closer to the camera and give a result greater than it's actual size. I didn’t think about that when I made the calc.


As for the replacement to this. Me and someone else have each prepared a proposal as to how to calc the feat, however we'd also like to see what you come up with.

Yeah exactly.

Sure, I'll inform if mine won't work later today.

Gonna make a suggestion to streamline this for the calc members and meet everyone halfway, hopefully it helps. If the horizon poses an issue, I think there’s already a way to deal with it. From my recollection, the horizon varies based on altitude. So perhaps we can use the assumed gate height to get the distance to the horizon with this calculator and get the rough distance from the door’s back edge to the horizon. A rough napkin sketch suggests about 179 km rather than 222 but I guess that also depends on how accurately you draw the lines so it can arguably end up being pretty close to the original calc or even higher/lower (however I do think the first calc is most accurate in comparison to the others tbh).

Should probably ping whoever disagreed before, I vaguely remember there being extra issues with the size due to Asta's sword. Is that still an issue with this new calculation?

Sword width shouldn’t be an issue considering our standards already addresses things about certain scenes focusing on the content rather than the size.

Inconsistent Measurements​

When evaluating the size of objects depicted by an author, it's important to consider that the author may have depicted them inconsistently for artistic reasons. A primary example occurs if the author has to show a large object and a comparatively small object at the same time. In such a case they might have to depict the two objects as similar in size for the sake of making both easily visible to the reader. When deciding on the appropriate size scaling to use, such inconsistencies should be taken into account.

We have also have a direct statement that the door and meteor was summoned outside of the air/atmosphere and that it could be seen from anywhere in the kingdom. Narratively it's massive, especially since it's craters are also perceivable before the object even collides with the atmosphere and ablate.

Not to mention, when you compare the scene of the sword with every other comparable shot of the meteor and Asta you can’t perceive Asta or any of his weapons, even when the anti-magic trails thin out to be smaller than swords and Asta from the shot in question.

 

[Floxy178]

(I am the "someone else" Joaki mentioed)

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Rodriiogo/Black_Clover:_Doom's_Gate

I personally think ang-sizing is still the best way in this case, the entire explanation to why I think it's valid is in the blog itself so I won't blab much about it here.

I used every single view of the meteor from people on earth and it does seem very consistent and way more narratively supported by the story than what the thread to "debunk" it tried to push (100m) through a singular shot where the character is supposed to be in view which I think should not take precedence over multiple consistent shots like that, views of it being big compared to the literal planet itself, and the story itself.

Just in this case, to avoid the need to search for it, here's basically the entire scene with the meteor:

• Summoning
• Entire scene from when Asta gets powered until it gets cut

Could you tell what was your input in calculator to get the 261km value?

 

[Rodriiogo]

Could you tell what was your input in calculator to get the 261km value?

It was the accepted calculated diameter of the clover kingdom.

 

[Arkenis]

Sword width shouldn’t be an issue considering our standards already addresses things about certain scenes focusing on the content rather than the size.

That just seems to talk about manga.

We have also have a direct statement that the door and meteor was summoned outside of the air/atmosphere and that it could be seen from anywhere in the kingdom. Narratively it's massive, especially since it's craters are also perceivable before the object even collides with the atmosphere and ablate.

Yeah no doubt. I was just saying get the people who originally disagreed so we can get to a better resolution on it.

 

[ElJoaki5]

It was the accepted calculated diameter of the clover kingdom.

(Since the meteor is at the demon skull which is in one corner of the kingdom and can be seen through it, thus using the diameter and not the radius for people throughout the kingdom seeing it)
I have my own method but rodrii wanted to go first, waiting for now. :0

 

[Floxy178]

It was the accepted calculated diameter of the clover kingdom.

261km is minimum height if it has no width/length, it's just for a point. The bigger the object is, minimum height becomes lower. This just means height is below 261km, not that it's 261km.

 

[Rodriiogo]

261km is minimum height if it has no width/length, it's just for a point. The bigger the object is, minimum height becomes lower. This just means height is below 261km, not that it's 261km.

Well but then it wouldn't be fully visible no? If it wasnt 261km in the air, only a part of it would be seen and not the entire meteor as the novel says:

Spoiler: Novel Statement

He was slowly making it plummet, something so massive it could be seen from anywhere within the kingdom. With this, I'll end everything. Not much time was left for Conrad, who had continuously offered up his lifespan through forbidden magic. Before this life runs out, I must save this country, this world……! "I…… won't give up either……!" Asta, who had collapsed face down in the forest, reached his hand out toward the Demon-Slayer Sword that had fallen right before his eyes.

We see that in every view we see the meteor is meant to be fully visible for people across the country, not half-covered by a horizon.

Another example is how "everywhere in the kingdom" should also involve important cities in the story like for example, Raque, which is not only basically on the other side of the country but is surrounded by mountains as you can see:

The meteor would have to be way high up even for them to be visible not covered by a part of the horizon in the calculator. Note that entire kingdom itself is a very mountainous place as well, I think it's fair.

 

[Floxy178]

Well but then it wouldn't be fully visible no?

Yes.

If it wasnt 261km in the air, only a part of it would be seen and not the entire meteor as the novel says:

I don't think what you quoted mentions it being visible as a whole from everywhere?

We see that in every view we see the meteor is meant to be fully visible for people across the country, not half-covered by a horizon.

Are those scenes from opposite end of the kingdom?

The meteor would have to be way high up even for them to be visible not covered by a part of the horizon in the calculator. Note that entire kingdom itself is a very mountainous place as well, I think it's fair.

Just because going with horizon alone makes feat lowball because of mountains, it doesn't make horizon one automatically correct as inflation can easily be greater.

 

[Rodriiogo]

I don't think what you quoted mentions it being visible as a whole from everywhere?

I think that was the intention considering every shot of it that we see but fair enough.

Are those scenes from opposite end of the kingdom?

I'm unsure if there's a way of finding an exact location of where they are but I will look for it in the movie.

Just because going with horizon alone makes feat lowball because of mountains, it doesn't make horizon one automatically correct as inflation can easily be greater.

Hmmm, is there another way of getting the height or a way of quantifying what would be the value counting the mountain?

But if none of it is possible, are the other 3 views fine by themselves? "Asta's Initial View" and "Golden Dawn's View" are the only two that use the 200+km, the others use the fact that it's burning so it has to be around 100km away from surface and I think they still show consistency and the reasons are strong enough for ang-sizing to be more usable than the random "100m meteor" shot.

 

[Floxy178]

I'm unsure if there's a way of finding an exact location of where they are but I will look for it in the movie.

Yeah that'd help. alternatively you can use height from ground to meteor's top I guess, since otherwise meteor wouldn't be visible at all.

Hmmm, is there another way of getting the height or a way of quantifying what would be the value counting the mountain?

But if none of it is possible, are the other 3 views fine by themselves? "Asta's Initial View" and "Golden Dawn's View" are the only two that use the 200+km, the others use the fact that it's burning so it has to be around 100km away from surface and I think they still show consistency and the reasons are strong enough for ang-sizing to be more usable than the random "100m meteor" shot.

I disagree with 100km argument because argument itself works more like "height can't be more than 100km", height being way lower than that doesn't contradict meteor simply being heated. For now best option I can think of is to find a panel, and use height from horizon method for distance from ground to its top.

Since 1842km is arc length there, not horizon distance, height should be slightly higher.

cos(D/R) * (R+H) = R; therefore H = R * (1/cos(D/R) - 1) which gives 275.88 km for 1842km distance.

A rough angsizing directly from 2 scans gave me ~16-17km for door diameter but that's less reliable IMO.

 

[Slacjow]

Why are you even trying to calc the size of the meteor? It is the most inconsistent object ever. Its size literally changes in every single scene and varies greatly depending on how you try to calc it.

Use the Country destroying statement. But instead of assuming he is going to literally crater the entire area of the Clover Kingdom just keep in mind that he was going to destroy all life on it, not even single piece of matter around.

 

[Arkenis]

Didn't he say he was gonna raise it from its foundation?

 

[Rodriiogo]

Yeah that'd help. alternatively you can use height from ground to meteor's top I guess, since otherwise meteor wouldn't be visible at all.

I've been unable to find any direct statement or showing of where they were so nvm that.

I disagree with 100km argument because argument itself works more like "height can't be more than 100km", height being way lower than that doesn't contradict meteor simply being heated.

I feel like 100km is the bare minimum actually. We see even at the end of the scenes and even after the meteor is cut that it was still very much in outerspace, as even Asta himself was in outer space.

(Here is real images of 100 km above ground level in real life)

For now best option I can think of is to find a panel, and use height from horizon method for distance from ground to its top.

Well the views I showed in the calc are the only ones that exist, I don't know if it is possible to calculate it with any of them(?)

Since 1842km is arc length there, not horizon distance, height should be slightly higher.

cos(D/R) * (R+H) = R; therefore H = R * (1/cos(D/R) - 1) which gives 275.88 km for 1842km distance.

Hm so would theat mean 275.88km altitude for the top of the meteor at least? Wouldn't that make the meteor have a height of at least 155.88km since part of it is already burning which starts happening at around 50 to 75 miles (80 to 120 km) above Earth’s surface? That does seem consistent with the ang sizing for 100km as well (since the results were 142.347km, 148.323km and 191.018km).

Adding onto that as well, since the door is above the meteor, couldn't the door be ang-sized instead then if the top of the meteor has to be at least 275.88 km and the door has to be above that? It'd allow us to get the meteor size since we see the size of the meteor compared to the door as well.

Why are you even trying to calc the size of the meteor? It is the most inconsistent object ever. Its size literally changes in every single scene and varies greatly depending on how you try to calc it.

Because the meteor's size is important to define how strong it is? And no, it barely is "inconsistent", it literally is consistently around the same ballpark when ang-sized from all views and the only scene where it's argued as small is a scene where the main focus is Asta, not the meteor, so of course Asta had to look visible.
The story literally makes it clear to you in the novel that it's blatantly meant to be massive even tho characters in the story Pre-TS were already making attacks that cover tens of kilometers casually or Patry covering hundreds of kilometers with mana he had stored. It is indeed ridiculous to say that an attack that is activated in exchange for Conrad's own life, and has the statements like:

Spoiler: Statements

"unimaginably colossal door"
"something so massive it could be seen from anywhere within the kingdom"
"His aim was the colossal magic threatening to destroy the kingdom, and beyond that"

Was actually an attack smaller than regular attacks from Fana's Salamander without Third Eye (Two arcs ago villian that got beaten by Base Asta even with third eye) and the barrier used by part of the magic BASE Conrad used, and not even comparable to Patry's mana he had stored covering hundreds of kilometers.

I talked about all of this here with the scans.

Use the Country destroying statement. But instead of assuming he is going to literally crater the entire area of the Clover Kingdom just keep in mind that he was going to destroy all life on it, not even single piece of matter around.

This is just a lie? Conrad even before without the meteor and with Compound Magic alone was gonna destroy the country up to the foundation of the continent itself, and that was his goal throughout the entire movie from the very beginning. He proceeds to infuse that compound magic onto himself by the way and was still way below the meteor as the meteor required his entire life being sacrificed to be used and Asta needed to be empowered by the Imperial sword alongside mana of all magic knights to overpower the meteor. Saying the statement isn't in reference to actually destroying the country entirely is literally just lying.

 

[Floxy178]

Use the Country destroying statement. But instead of assuming he is going to literally crater the entire area of the Clover Kingdom just keep in mind that he was going to destroy all life on it, not even single piece of matter around.

We can use ground shockwave formula for that I guess.

Well the views I showed in the calc are the only ones that exist, I don't know if it is possible to calculate it with any of them(?)

There is, it has distortion though, but still can be used as a lowball.

Hm so would theat mean 275.88km altitude for the top of the meteor at least? Wouldn't that make the meteor have a height of at least 155.88km since part of it is already burning which starts happening at around 50 to 75 miles (80 to 120 km) above Earth’s surface?

I already said that I disagree with 100km thing, there's no fixed height that meteor should start burning. If it didn't get summoned from a height, then you could have a point.

Adding onto that as well, since the door is above the meteor, couldn't the door be ang-sized instead then if the top of the meteor has to be at least 275.88 km and the door has to be above that? It'd allow us to get the meteor size since we see the size of the meteor compared to the door as well.

The ≈16.24km thing I mentioned before was door's width when I angsized it.

 

[Rodriiogo]

I already said that I disagree with 100km thing, there's no fixed height that meteor should start burning. If it didn't get summoned from a height, then you could have a point.

Well yea but if it was over 120km then it literally couldn't be burning since it hadn't entered the earth's atmosphere? It could be less than 100km, I agree, but not more. It being less would just make the meteor bigger

The ≈16.24km thing I mentioned before was door's width when I angsized it.

Huh. Am I doing something wrong? I am getting 261.24 km through ang-sizing with the height you gave(?)

 

[Floxy178]

Well yea but if it was over 120km then it literally couldn't be burning since it hadn't entered the earth's atmosphere? It could be less than 100km, I agree, but not more. It being less would just make the meteor bigger

Yeah basically what I said before:

argument itself works more like "height can't be more than 100km"

I didn't take it as anti feat because that height depends on many factors like meteor's size, speed, etc. So 100km might not be accurate for it. But yeah any such value is highball of height instead of lowball.

Huh. Am I doing something wrong? I am getting 261.24 km through ang-sizing with the height you gave(?)

I was talking about direct ang sizing instead of taking height with horizon method, only reference I used was 37km stratosphere height like @ElJoaki5 used. And it seems like I made a mistake as I got door width as 32.472 km. I might as well put it in a blog later.