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True, but honestly, I haven't updated Lu Zhiyu's verse in so long that I don't mind Paraconsistent going. And the OP can always re-add it for the Way Between Worlds.
I'm confused about what you're trying to ask.
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Chinamen Nonduality
- Thread starter Robo432343
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- nonduality
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Ning should keep PP1 at bare minimum due to his Sword Dao (which is one and the same with his soul), forming the basis of all Eternal Omega Daos/Prime Essences, including those of Creation (the existence of all lesser daos) and Oblivion (the absence of all lesser daos), these Eternal Omega Daos being the source from which all lesser daos and concepts are sourced.
The argument for type 2 is then that due to the nature of Eternal Omega Daos serving as the basis of all lesser daos, and the nature of Creation and Oblivion, they should govern the existence and nonexistence (or to use logic terms that I abhor in this context, the A and ~A) of all daos, of which there are gods know how many, and Ning's Soul/Dao transcends that.
There is an argument for type 3 that is a mix of an old argument but also something I just realized was explicitly said in the novel, so
As said before, all daos are emanations of the Prime Essences, which serve as the basis from which they are all derived/expressed, with there existing, for example, the Dao of the Sword, which is an emanation/instanation of the Grand Dao of the Sword, so on and so forth all the way up to the Prime Essence of the Sword.
From that, we know that there do exist lesser instanations of the prime essence of creation and oblivion, and we know what they even are, the daos of life and destruction. Which seeing as they are emanations of those higher concepts, should carry those properties of being the everything and nothing of lesser realities, if not the same degree as their ultimate counterparts. At the "lowest level" of this hiearchy, which consists of Normal Daos, Grand Daos and Heavenly Daos, all of this then resolves into the Heavenly Dao of Primordial Chaos, which is explicitly the origin of all the aforementioned daos, of which yin and yang, life and destruction, are explicitly mentioned. Which in theory would be enough to keep type 3, seeing as the Omega Daos and Prime Essences very explicitly transcend that, so long as you accept the assumption (which I'm honestly pretty sure it isn't, but I don't have the epub file of the novel on hand and I'd rather not download it and take forever doing so rn)
And that would have been the argument, had I not found this scan while looking over the scans to remind myself of stuff. Said scan, which explicitly places the daos of oblivion and creation as the two sides of yin and yang, which are already daos that explicitly exist in-verse, and our already existing logical duality is directly compared to, if not outright stated to be equaivalent to, yin and yang, and thus the daos of yin and yang, and the things which scale off it have a very solid argument to qualify to either be a logical duality, or transcend a logical duality to get/keep PP (But I will also just point out that in any case, ning is just going to keep the resulting immunities/state of existence anyways, even if PP is removed, seeing as he still transcends those concepts anyways, so it is what it is)
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As Raiki mentioned earlier in this CRT, Yin and Yang are not automatically compatible with Paraconsistent Physiology. They tend to work in terms of opposites, instead of logical negations.
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I am aware, I am saying Yin and Yang, and their various levels are literally either equivalent to or lesser emanations of the concepts of existence and nonexistence, with both being in reference to the existence and nonexistence of concepts, not just physical reality, while forming the basis of literally every single lesser concept. At worst, even if you don't accept that argument, the sword dao, which transcends these concepts of existence and nonexistence, which are A and ~A of literally every single concept in reality, not just pure existence and nonexistence, ergo the sword dao, which transcends them and forms their basis, should qualify for PP2.
With the further idea of Yin and Yang being logical in nature by being equivalent to those concepts of existence and nonexistence, and the existence of the lesser iterations of those two concepts in the form of life and destruction, which should hold the same properties as their higher forms, if not to the same degree as said higher forms, then the Heavenly Dao of Primordial Chaos should qualify for PP2 as it transcends and is the source of those logical duality instead, and thus Ning keeps his type 3 from the multiple degrees of transcendence and seperation between him and that heavenly dao, including the Dao of Creation which encompasses the entire existence of the Heavenly Dao of Primordial Chaos and the Dao of Oblivion which is it's nonexistence. A and ~A, simple as.
To basically jot it down in what I hope is a more readable format
- Ning's Sword Dao transcends Creation and Oblivion
- Creation and Oblivion, are the concept of existence and nonexistence, the plainest of A and ~A (PP1)
- Creation and Oblivion apply to the existence and nonexistence of concepts in general, rather than just "physical" existence and nonexistence in specific, so it is a generalized duality rather than specific as it's application is that of a categorey that dicates the (non)existence of concepts, and thus their particulars. (PP2)
Creation and Oblivion are explicitly stated to be/compared to Yin and Yang, with Oblivion being the Yin part of the cycle and Creation being the Yang, with both being needed for Ning to awaken to his Autuarch Sword Dao, which is a stand in for either The Dao or the One in the arrangement One produces Two produces Three. - Due to this Yin and Yang are thus Logical dualities seeing as they either directly are, or can be directly compared to, a logical duality.
- There exist lesser instances of each dao all the way down from the prime essences, Prime Essence of the Sword -> Omega Dao of the Sword (and also literally every other omega dao) -> Supreme Dao of the Sword (and also literally every other Supreme Dao) -> Heavenly Dao of Primordial Chaos (not exactly, but I'm including it anyways) -> Heavenly Dao of The Sword -> Grand Dao of the Sword -> Dao of the Sword. With such a process literally applying to every single Prime Essence/Omega Eternal Dao, with Prime Essences and Omega Daos explicitly serving as the basis from which all daos of a lower level manifest, not just those of their own dao.
- Creation and Oblivion similarly have lesser dao counterparts of themselves in the form of the various daos of Life and Destruction, which due to literally being a concept directly dervived from the concepts of existence and nonexistence, should share those same principles and be the concept of existence and nonexistence on their level of being, and their particulars being either their lower level of dao, or reality itself.
- To come back around to why I mentioned the Heavenly Dao of Primordial Chaos earlier, this is why, it explicitly transcends and acts as the source of the Daos of Yin and Yang, Life and Destruction, and also every other lesser dao within a given world, thus due to it transcending those logical dualities, it should qualify for PP2. Ning then gets PP3 due to his sword Dao serving as the foundation of Creation and Destruction, which as already mentioned beforehand, are the concepts of existence and nonexistence, and their nature extends to including those of the Heavenly Dao of Primordial Chaos (explicitly at that I might at), and thus they are the existence of A, ~A and that which source them, and the nonexistence of A, ~A and that which source them, and thus PP3.
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I see, well, if you're willing to create a CRT, to have this all listed on the profile, that's fine. But as it's listed right now, it's missing a lot of scans/context which is why it's getting removed for now.
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This is all listed on the profile, though?
The only thing I don't think is listed on it would be the connection between Creation/Oblivion and Life/Destruction, but the explicit comparison of Creation/Oblivon to Yang/Yin is on there, I know it is because I was looking at ning's profile when I saw it, the bit about Creation/Oblivion being the existence/nonexistence of daos is there, so to is the stuff abt ning's sword dao being the source of the prime essences, the prime essences being the source of all lesser daos and even a single prime essence being able to serve as the source of all the daos of a reality, omega daos serving as the source of all supreme daos, the supreme daos existing beyond the heavenly dao of PC, the Heavenly Dao of PC existing as the basis of all lesser daos, including the explicit mentions of Yin/Yang, Life and Destruction. It's all on the page.
If you want, I can link you to the exact hyperlinked scans on the page that mention them lol, the CRT itself just linked the PP descriptions, which left out a bunch of context because the nature of stuff was described elsewhere on the page, or on cosmology stuff
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The issue is that the scans currently only show Oblivion as being the annihilation of things, not nonexistence itself. Likewise, Creation seems to be the birth of things, but not existence itself; there's a difference between being existence and creation. One is an act, and the other is a state.
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Tanin_iver
He/Him- 1,058
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Can you list those that you think don't qualify?
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Let's wrap this one up first. We never did a Paraconsistent Physiology checklist thread as we did for Acausality Type 5, but I'm willing to open one.
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Eh, no
Oblivion (the dao and the ""substance"") is pretty explicitly created as a result of Ning destroying his (what is in this context) Eternal Omega Sword Daos of Wuxing, Yin/Yang, Light/Darkness, Space/Time, and Karma. It is very explicitly the end product of the chain, not just the destruction of those things themselves; it would have arisen the moment the chain was started, rather than when it ended. So it being just destruction as a process doesn't make sense, given that Oblivion is explicitly stated to be the true destruction that arises only after everything else is annihilated.
Also mf you are literally a CN verse supporter, and you want to call Creation (the one begets two begets three) as just creation rather than existence as a whole? At worst, Creation still encompasses all daos by its nature (it is literally second only to Ning's Sword Dao, of which it forms part of the yin/yang that emerges from the taiji that creates all things, including the prime essences), being the source of their existence to begin with, being quite literally a concept of concepts.
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Oblivion is very clearly the act of destruction, not nothingness.
Creating the Taiji, or even the Yin and Yang, is just Creation, and wouldn't attribute any of their qualities to Creation itself, just like the Big Bang doesn't get Technology Manipulation despite creating the universe.
This is all conceptual, but not related to logical negations.
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If that is genuinely your response, I do not see any reason to respond after this and will just give him the "immunities" and state of being he'd get from having PP anyway, since he still transcends those concepts
This isn't a procession of physical events resulting in a secondary effect of the origin. This is the grand unified field separating out into the strong, weak, and electromagnetic fields. This is creation literally and directly giving rise to yin and yang, space and time, out of the prima materia. This is the one creating the two, creating the three, creating the great ten thousand things; it is not incidental creation, it is a direct causal and conceptual lineage that results in the
Reread your own quotation, please
It very plainly says that Oblivion is only given rise to after all of them are destroyed, not at the start, not in the middle, at the end. Only once they are all gone and nothing is left, Oblivion is formed. If it were just normal destruction or the act of destruction, then it'd just manifest at the start of the destruction chain, when things are being destroyed, not at the end, where there is literally no-thing left to destroy and only nothing left.
Are we forgetting the explanation I gave earlier on how each the prime essences literally emanates outwards all omega daos, which emanate outwards all supreme daos which emanate outwards the heavenly, grand and normal daos? Of which creation is either a prime essence, seeing as it is literally an Eternal Omega Dao, or to the prime essences as they are to omega daos, seeing as it is half of Ning's Autarch Sword Dao.
This isn't a procession of physical events resulting in a secondary effect of the origin. This is the grand unified field separating out into the strong, weak, and electromagnetic fields. This is creation literally and directly giving rise to yin and yang, space and time, out of the prima materia. This is the one creating the two, creating the three, creating the great ten thousand things; it is not incidental creation, it is a direct causal and conceptual lineage that results in the
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We've had enough staff agreements for a while now. Let me know when this is applied, and I can close this.
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- Thread starter
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i removed the ones that aren't protected
the ones that are protected needs to be unlocked by a content mod i think
the ones that are protected needs to be unlocked by a content mod i think
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Which profiles?
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Creation is the unification of all things (I.e everything) and Oblivion is the absence of all things (I.e nothing), they're not the process but instead they're the end result, so you're clearly not focusing on the correct parts of the quotes provided.
Regardless, again, if you want to remove something from Ning, do a thread to properly discuss him.
This thread began without the opposition even agreeing on what qualifies for the ability to begin with and you expect us supporters to just explain everything in 5 or 6 messages?
This is genuinely disappointing
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This shit should be in it own thread, verse with complicated, complex mechanic.
This thread should remove simply and obvious example only
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i thought we agreed to remove at least PP 3 or 2 from Ning
i guess it can be taken to another thread
i guess it can be taken to another thread
Lu Zhiyu, Xu Jingming, and The Way Between Worlds
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I've unlocked the profiles.
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Who?
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Ji Ning
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- #104
I removed the obvious examples
Ji Ning and (Way Between Worlds?) can be taken to another thread
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Most verse heres are massive book collections with complex conceptual bullshitery left and right: none of them are simple.
I don't think all of them even had a supporter say anything either in agreement or in disagreement with the removal (in case you haven't noticed, this thread's title and tags don't tell anyone what verses are being addressed).
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@Zaratthustra and @Muchacho_mrm are the only notable supporters i can think of who haven't commented and they're pretty inactive
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So we are acknowledging planck's statement about the explicit existence of the essence of true and false. Are we ignoring that statement and the existence of such?
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yeah thats why i didn't remove it from Ning's profile
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That statement was about Ergenverse. Did you actually pay attention to what was being posted?
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- #112
you and spaceman both said ergenverse can be removed as well as vietthai
should i revert it
should i revert it
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- #114
We don't want outdated and poorly justified abilities that's going to take 20 years of fixing to exist in our pages
I was told by a staff member that it can be removed so i followed that instruction, man
I have no issue with anyone making a simple thread or this thread to fix that justification
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Well, scan is therr so let's update it i guess, ngl, i don't think upload some scans to the page requires too much effort, unless the verse are being under reconstruction
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well it says "encompasses any oppositon" presumably includes true and false just needs context/scans not removal
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i found the thread that added td which has the scans
