Remove NEP 1 and NEP 3 from Guenael Lee in Bleach.

[Torsin]

I dont think an author could showcase NEP more blatantly than this with both statements and feats for a character. This whole crt seems to be disregarding the direct statements for personal head canon even though the character directly states and shows what he is doing. Like if I wanted to just for the sake of arguing I could say this ability is enhanced speed and after image generation but that would require me turning off my brain. So disagree with the crt.

 

[zylieo]

I disagree with this thread. The evidence is explicit in the manga. + OP used AI to create this thread.

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

OP used AI to create this thread.

This is irrelevant. The use of AI isn't prohibited on the wiki, especially when it helps clean up the wording of a thread. Not everyone on the wiki is a native English speaker, if you weren't aware. It would obviously be problematic if @Azertyhuuh used AI to generate the entire thread from scratch, but that doesn't even seem to be the case here (and I don't really think it violates the rules either if that were to be case), especially considering his track record on the wiki is usually filled with original ideas nobody else even thinks of lmao.

 

[Hecky2222]

Only thing I wonder is why he has NEP 1 and 3 at same time?

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

Only thing I wonder is why he has NEP 1 and 3 at same time?

I think it's the “illusion” part that makes it Type 3-ish, but I don't think it really qualify and it seems kind of redudant, yeah.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

It's normal for Bleach fans to object and defend their series in this collective way, and on top of that, make accusations haha.

 

[Hellscream]

I think it's the “illusion” part that makes it Type 3-ish, but I don't think it really qualify and it seems kind of redudant, yeah.

In his second stage, his soul, body and mind become nonexistent, while he's still capable of thinking, basically meaning it both exists and doesn't exist.
Which is required for type 3

 

[Hellscream]

Alright, it seems things are now clear. It appears there is an attempt at misrepresentation here, even from the anime side, through clipped footage and images. Even the anime actually supports what I said.

It looks like the person Hellscream who sent this clip has been selectively sending heavily cut segments; in fact, the entire thing is basically misleading. Here is the full scene now ↓



This is the full scene now, and it is exactly what proves that everything I said is correct.

Absolutely amazing, so you didn't watch the anime, and are spreading blatant misinformation.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Version 2 just seems blatantly NEP to me.

Version 2: In this version, he changes his location of existence, as after his form begins to disappear, he shifts his position.

The scan doesn't say he "changes his location", it only says he erases his own existence:

"IN VERSION 1, MY FORM DISAPPEARS."
"IN VERSION 2, MY EXISTENCE DISAPPEARS."
"IN VERSION 2 THAT I JUST USED, WHEN MY FORM IS BEGINNING TO DISAPPEAR..."
"...MY EXISTENCE IS NO LONGER THERE."
"ONLY THE ILLUSION THAT YOU STRUCK THE AFTERIMAGE OF MY FORM... CAPTURED IN YOUR SIGHTS REMAINS."

NOTHING mentions changing his location tho.

The "afterimage" is simply the memory inside his opponent's mind of his last moment of existence, before he erases his own existence. Nothing about moving away or changing locations.

Selective nonexistence, where you can change between 0 and 1, is typically indexed as NEP 1&3 simultaneously.

 

[Hellscream]

It's normal for Bleach fans to object and defend their series in this collective way, and on top of that, make accusations haha.

"Hello everyone, before I begin, I ask that you stay on topic and remain respectful, as I am only trying to correct the mistakes.

Today I will remove NEP 1 and NEP 3 as well, of course because their justifications are incorrect, since the time they were obtained is outdated (dating back to 2022). So today I will try to explain this matter."

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Comprehensive Summary of the Topic:

First, regarding the NEP 3 justification, it is already incorrect
because when Guenael Lee hides his form and becomes invisible, an illusory image remains in the opponent’s perception of him, and therefore when the opponent attempts to strike him, they do not actually hit him.

"IN VERSION 1, MY FORM DISAPPEARS."
"IN VERSION 2, MY EXISTENCE DISAPPEARS."
"IN VERSION 2 THAT I JUST USED, WHEN MY FORM IS BEGINNING TO DISAPPEAR..."
"...MY EXISTENCE IS NO LONGER THERE."
"ONLY THE ILLUSION THAT YOU STRUCK THE AFTERIMAGE OF MY FORM... CAPTURED IN YOUR SIGHTS REMAINS."

Because of this misunderstanding, NEP 3 was added.

Now regarding NEP 1, the matter is very simple.

In Version 1, he hides his form and becomes invisible, and this can also be observed in the anime. After that, in Version 2, he hides his existence. This statement does not mean that he literally ceases to exist; rather, he hides his existence from his opponent, meaning he conceals himself so that they do not know his location. He changes his position and hides himself after concealing his form, and thus the opponent cannot strike him or determine where he is. This can be observed even in the anime, while the manga explains it more clearly, stating that he was simply no longer there. When he hid himself, an afterimage of his form remained in the opponent’s vision, and when the opponent attacked it, they hit nothing.

Therefore, he said that his existence there had disappeared because he changed location. This is clearer in the manga and can also be seen in the anime. When he said he hides his existence, this is what he meant, not that he literally ceased to exist. That interpretation is unsupported by evidence. What both the manga and anime support is that he merely hides himself from his opponent in other locations after concealing his form, and this is what the manga justifies.

"IN VERSION 1, MY FORM DISAPPEARS."
"IN VERSION 2, MY EXISTENCE DISAPPEARS."
"IN VERSION 2 THAT I JUST USED, WHEN MY FORM IS BEGINNING TO DISAPPEAR..."
"...MY EXISTENCE IS NO LONGER THERE."
"ONLY THE ILLUSION THAT YOU STRUCK THE AFTERIMAGE OF MY FORM... CAPTURED IN YOUR SIGHTS REMAINS."

Contradictions:

First, I will leave the full scene here for viewing.

• Guenael Lee was struck normally by the opponent’s sword, began coughing blood, received attacks from the opponent, became incapacitated, and would have died normally from an ordinary sword at that moment. Then Gremmy appeared and killed him in a normal manner as well, not through anything special such as erasure or anything similar—he simply exploded him, his blood scattered, and he died normally. He would have died anyway at the hands of a small girl wielding only a sword. This contradicts NEP 3 first and foremost because he can still be struck, and as we explained earlier, what remains is merely an afterimage in the opponent’s vision, so when they attack it, they do not hit him.
• Dying normally through bodily explosion also contradicts possessing NEP 1, and he would have died from an ordinary sword as well. His death was not some special erasure; he was not erased at all. His body was exploded, his blood scattered, and he would have been killed by the lieutenant’s sword regardless.
• It is true that he said he hides his existence, but this phrase does not mean that he literally no longer exists. Rather, he hides himself from the opponent after concealing his form and changes his position so the opponent cannot determine where he is, as is clearly shown in both the anime and manga. In the manga specifically, it is directly clarified that he changes location, and this is also visible in the anime.

"...MY EXISTENCE IS NO LONGER THERE."

Relying on a single phrase and interpreting it however you want, despite it being an ordinary expression with multiple possible meanings, is not logical. Furthermore, the intended meaning is clarified in both the anime and the manga, and there are many contradictions with NEP in the first place.

The opponents’ arguments:
In short, the opponents are attempting to selectively cut small portions of the video in order to mislead the audience here and then interpret matters based on a heavily fragmented version of the footage.

After that, they attack the manga and claim it is not official, despite the NEP justifications themselves being based on the manga, and even the anime itself does not support their claims once the original complete video is examined.

They attempt to take the phrase “hides his existence” as if it means he literally became nonexistent, despite numerous contradictions and despite the meaning already being clarified in both the manga and anime, where he hides, changes position, suddenly appears, and delivers attacks. This is what is meant by “hiding his existence,” and you can observe this in the video.

That is everything, and here is the video:

---

This is the complete summary, so we can now stop making the discussion longer and simply wait for the staff’s opinion.

 

[Hellscream]

Comprehensive Summary of the Topic:

First, regarding the NEP 3 justification, it is already incorrect
because when Guenael Lee hides his form and becomes invisible, an illusory image remains in the opponent’s perception of him, and therefore when the opponent attempts to strike him, they do not actually hit him.

The NEP 3 justification is that in bleach, your body is intertwined your soul and mind, meaning that if you become non existent, so does your body, mind and soul.
Meaning that his mind was non existent, yet he was still capable of thought, meaning that it both simultaneously did and didn't exist, hence NEP3.

Because of this misunderstanding, NEP 3 was added.

Now regarding NEP 1, the matter is very simple.

In Version 1, he hides his form and becomes invisible, and this can also be observed in the anime. After that, in Version 2, he hides his existence. This statement does not mean that he literally ceases to exist; rather, he hides his existence from his opponent, meaning he conceals himself so that they do not know his location. He changes his position and hides himself after concealing his form, and thus the opponent cannot strike him or determine where he is. This can be observed even in the anime, while the manga explains it more clearly, stating that he was simply no longer there. When he hid himself, an afterimage of his form remained in the opponent’s vision, and when the opponent attacked it, they hit nothing.

Therefore, he said that his existence there had disappeared because he changed location. This is clearer in the manga and can also be seen in the anime. When he said he hides his existence, this is what he meant, not that he literally ceased to exist. That interpretation is unsupported by evidence. What both the manga and anime support is that he merely hides himself from his opponent in other locations after concealing his form, and this is what the manga justifies.

He never changed location, as i proved earlier with the anime, you're posting selective evidence while evidently cutting out the parts that destroy your entire premise in 2 seconds.

All of this mumbo jumbo word salad is based on him swapping places, which he doesn't do.
Literally ignoring the evidence the opposition has provided, while coming up with nonsensical head canon.

Contradictions:

First, I will leave the full scene here for viewing.

• Guenael Lee was struck normally by the opponent’s sword, began coughing blood, received attacks from the opponent, became incapacitated, and would have died normally from an ordinary sword at that moment. Then Gremmy appeared and killed him in a normal manner as well, not through anything special such as erasure or anything similar—he simply exploded him, his blood scattered, and he died normally. He would have died anyway at the hands of a small girl wielding only a sword. This contradicts NEP 3 first and foremost because he can still be struck, and as we explained earlier, what remains is merely an afterimage in the opponent’s vision, so when they attack it, they do not hit him.
• Dying normally through bodily explosion also contradicts possessing NEP 1, and he would have died from an ordinary sword as well. His death was not some special erasure; he was not erased at all. His body was exploded, his blood scattered, and he would have been killed by the lieutenant’s sword regardless.
• It is true that he said he hides his existence, but this phrase does not mean that he literally no longer exists. Rather, he hides himself from the opponent after concealing his form and changes his position so the opponent cannot determine where he is, as is clearly shown in both the anime and manga. In the manga specifically, it is directly clarified that he changes location, and this is also visible in the anime.

He can disable and swap between forms, if you didn't realize, meaning he can go from existent to non existent on a whim.
Gremmy is also the being who created his very abilities with subjective reality warping hax.

And yes, the phrase literally means and shows that he doesn't exist, as we see yachiruo's fist go through him, while he's still there.

Relying on a single phrase and interpreting it however you want, despite it being an ordinary expression with multiple possible meanings, is not logical. Furthermore, the intended meaning is clarified in both the anime and the manga, and there are many contradictions with NEP in the first place.

(It has no contradictions)
Nor does it it have multiple possible meanings lmfao.
Stop forcing your logic on other people, i explained and showed how it works, it's your choice to stonewall and read selectively.
Literally pulling a red herring.

The opponents’ arguments:
In short, the opponents are attempting to selectively cut small portions of the video in order to mislead the audience here and then interpret matters based on a heavily fragmented version of the footage.

After that, they attack the manga and claim it is not official, despite the NEP justifications themselves being based on the manga, and even the anime itself does not support their claims once the original complete video is examined.

They attempt to take the phrase “hides his existence” as if it means he literally became nonexistent, despite numerous contradictions and despite the meaning already being clarified in both the manga and anime, where he hides, changes position, suddenly appears, and delivers attacks. This is what is meant by “hiding his existence,” and you can observe this in the video.

That is everything, and here is the video:

---

This is the complete summary, so we can now stop making the discussion longer and simply wait for the staff’s opinion.

No, i showed the actual relevant part that destroys your premise and where he explained all three forms of his ability, which you decided to ignore.
He literally becomes non existent, and it's showcased, no place swapping head canon nonsense.

I've also explained how in technical terms "his existence no longer being there" is correct, as his existence became non existent, he used to exist in that locaton before, but now he doesnt because he's non existent. and the supporting factor is the anime, where we literally see him in the exact same location, when he's non existent.
Literally 1+1=2.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

The NEP 3 justification is that in bleach, your body is intertwined your soul and mind, meaning that if you become non existent, so does your body, mind and soul.
Meaning that his mind was non existent, yet he was still capable of thought, meaning that it both simultaneously did and didn't exist, hence NEP3.

He never changed location, as i proved earlier with the anime, you're posting selective evidence while evidently cutting out the parts that destroy your entire premise in 2 seconds.

All of this mumbo jumbo word salad is based on him swapping places, which he doesn't do.
Literally ignoring the evidence the opposition has provided, while coming up with nonsensical head canon.

He can disable and swap between forms, if you didn't realize, meaning he can go from existent to non existent on a whim.
Gremmy is also the being who created his very abilities with subjective reality warping hax.

And yes, the phrase literally means and shows that he doesn't exist, as we see yachiruo's fist go through him, while he's still there.

(It has no contradictions)
Nor does it it have multiple possible meanings lmfao.
Stop forcing your logic on other people, i explained and showed how it works, it's your choice to stonewall and read selectively.
Literally pulling a red herring.

No, i showed the actual relevant part that destroys your premise and where he explained all three forms of his ability, which you decided to ignore.
He literally becomes non existent, and it's showcased, no place swapping head canon nonsense.

I've also explained how in technical terms "his existence no longer being there" is correct, as his existence became non existent, he used to exist in that locaton before, but now he doesnt because he's non existent. and the supporting factor is the anime, where we literally see him in the exact same location, when he's non existent.
Literally 1+1=2.

Lol, what kind of response is this? At first, he tells you that the character exists and does not exist at the same time, and that is why he has NEP 3. Then, the next moment, he tells you that he can switch between the states of existence and nonexistence.

Second, I am telling you that he does in fact exist. All he does is hide his form and then hide his existence from the opponent by concealing himself from them there. This is what the manga explains when it says that he is no longer there, and in the anime you can even see where he is hiding. While everyone else does not know his location, he is inside a green gap, opening his eyes from there and watching them. You can see that green space he enters, from which he observes them and opens his eye.

Please, just let the staff decide and do not reply to me again. If the staff decides that my argument is wrong, then the thread will simply be closed. There is no need for all this fear and bias here.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

You sent this clipped video again???

Anyway, here is the complete video. As for that video, it is misleading, so do not fall for it.

 

[Hellscream]

You sent this clipped video again???

Anyway, here is the complete video. As for that video, it is misleading, so do not fall for it.

You have been told multiple times, that the video you posted is not the full fight.
It literally cuts out the part where he explains all 3 versions, which is the relevant part.
Watch the anime.

"do not fall for it" btw, as he attempts to mislead people with blatant misinformation.

This guy is literally ignoring evidence, spreading misinformation and is clearly arguing out of bad faith.

 

[Vesxpura]

i agree with the op

 

[Torsin]

Comprehensive Summary of the Topic:

First, regarding the NEP 3 justification, it is already incorrect
because when Guenael Lee hides his form and becomes invisible, an illusory image remains in the opponent’s perception of him, and therefore when the opponent attempts to strike him, they do not actually hit him.

Because of this misunderstanding, NEP 3 was added.

This is not the reason NEP Type 3 was added at all. It was added as the mind, body and soul in bleach are intertwined and Gunael using his ability erased his existence but still is able to think as mentioned by Hellscream.

He changes his position and hides himself after concealing his form, and thus the opponent cannot strike him or determine where he is. This can be observed even in the anime, while the manga explains it more clearly, stating that he was simply no longer there. When he hid himself, an afterimage of his form remained in the opponent’s vision, and when the opponent attacked it, they hit nothing.

Therefore, he said that his existence there had disappeared because he changed location. This is clearer in the manga and can also be seen in the anime. When he said he hides his existence, this is what he meant, not that he literally ceased to exist. That interpretation is unsupported by evidence. What both the manga and anime support is that he merely hides himself from his opponent in other locations after concealing his form, and this is what the manga justifies.

This is your personal head canon so I have nothing to address here. None of this is substantiated by the manga or anime statements.

• Guenael Lee was struck normally by the opponent’s sword, began coughing blood, received attacks from the opponent, became incapacitated, and would have died normally from an ordinary sword at that moment.

I think the scene is pretty self explanatory. Gunael Lee has three versions of the ability. When he is non existent the opponent's cannot remember or perceive him as he no longer exists however the disadvantage is that he cannot attack in this form since he is well non existent. Therefore he switches to Version 1 of his ability that just makes him plain invisible (not non existent) to attack and deal damage. Most of the contradictions you mentioned are when he does the switch and makes himself existent again to attack Yachiru who due to her insane instinct and zanpakuto shikai ability is quickly able to sense and counter attack.

Her shikai makes it so that two invisible monsters strike before and after her zanpakuto's regular swings making it hard to time and dodge. Nowhere in the clip is Gunael injured when he is in his Version 2 or 3 forms as we can see Yachiru's attacks pass through his body when he is in those forms so there are no contradictions here.

Then Gremmy appeared and killed him in a normal manner as well, not through anything special such as erasure or anything similar—he simply exploded him, his blood scattered, and he died normally. He would have died anyway at the hands of a small girl wielding only a sword. This contradicts NEP 3 first and foremost because he can still be struck, and as we explained earlier, what remains is merely an afterimage in the opponent’s vision, so when they attack it, they do not hit him.

Using Gremmy as a contradiction doesn't work as Gremmy created Gunael and granted him the Vanishing point using his Reality Manipulation therefore his existence is tied to Gremmy's whim. Also it was erasure and not a regular explosion. I am pretty sure the blood seen exploding also vanished a second after the explosion happens if you watch the whole episode.We also accept it as erasure which is evident if you check Gremmy's profile. Also this point is moot as Gunael was not using Vanishing point here. The Vanishing point is an active ability not a passive one. He has to activate it and actively switch between forms.

• It is true that he said he hides his existence, but this phrase does not mean that he literally no longer exists. Rather, he hides himself from the opponent after concealing his form and changes his position so the opponent cannot determine where he is, as is clearly shown in both the anime and manga. In the manga specifically, it is directly clarified that he changes location, and this is also visible in the anime.

This point is again your personal head canon and I will not be addressing this. It is also not just position switching as from the anime clip you can see in their initial encounter with Gunael both Yachiru and Isane questioning what happened and if Yachiru stumbled and fell as his existence was erased from their memory due to him being non existent.

So none of the contradictions you mentioned are valid and arise from a lack of knowledge of bleach and its character's abilities. Your remaining para is just using these so called "contradictions" to justify your head canon explanation for the ability even though it is not substantiated and a clear cut explanation has been provided by the character with feats that support the same both in the anime and manga.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

This is not the reason NEP Type 3 was added at all. It was added as the mind, body and soul in bleach are intertwined and Gunael using his ability erased his existence but still is able to think as mentioned by Hellscream.

This is your personal head canon so I have nothing to address here. None of this is substantiated by the manga or anime statements.


I think the scene is pretty self explanatory. Gunael Lee has three versions of the ability. When he is non existent the opponent's cannot remember or perceive him as he no longer exists however the disadvantage is that he cannot attack in this form since he is well non existent. Therefore he switches to Version 1 of his ability that just makes him plain invisible (not non existent) to attack and deal damage. Most of the contradictions you mentioned are when he does the switch and makes himself existent again to attack Yachiru who due to her insane instinct and zanpakuto shikai ability is quickly able to sense and counter attack.

Her shikai makes it so that two invisible monsters strike before and after her zanpakuto's regular swings making it hard to time and dodge. Nowhere in the clip is Gunael injured when he is in his Version 2 or 3 forms as we can see Yachiru's attacks pass through his body when he is in those forms so there are no contradictions here.


Using Gremmy as a contradiction doesn't work as Gremmy created Gunael and granted him the Vanishing point using his Reality Manipulation therefore his existence is tied to Gremmy's whim. Also it was erasure and not a regular explosion. I am pretty sure the blood seen exploding also vanished a second after the explosion happens if you watch the whole episode.We also accept it as erasure which is evident if you check Gremmy's profile. Also this point is moot as Gunael was not using Vanishing point here. The Vanishing point is an active ability not a passive one. He has to activate it and actively switch between forms.


This point is again your personal head canon and I will not be addressing this. It is also not just position switching as from the anime clip you can see in their initial encounter with Gunael both Yachiru and Isane questioning what happened and if Yachiru stumbled and fell as his existence was erased from their memory due to him being non existent.

So none of the contradictions you mentioned are valid and arise from a lack of knowledge of bleach and its character's abilities. Your remaining para is just using these so called "contradictions" to justify your head canon explanation for the ability even though it is not substantiated and a clear cut explanation has been provided by the character with feats that support the same both in the anime and manga.

In short, you did not actually respond to anything I mentioned or supported with evidence, so I have nothing to reply to. You ignored my points and simply repeated what everyone here has been saying, which is the incorrect interpretation.

Guenael, in Version 1, becomes invisible because he hides himself, and afterward an afterimage of him remains in the opponent’s vision. Therefore, when the opponent attacks, they hit nothing because it is merely an afterimage in their sight.

"IN VERSION 1, MY FORM DISAPPEARS."
"IN VERSION 2, MY EXISTENCE DISAPPEARS."
"IN VERSION 2 THAT I JUST USED, WHEN MY FORM IS BEGINNING TO DISAPPEAR..."
"...MY EXISTENCE IS NO LONGER THERE."
"ONLY THE ILLUSION THAT YOU STRUCK THE AFTERIMAGE OF MY FORM... CAPTURED IN YOUR SIGHTS REMAINS."

Now say once again that I did not support my argument with evidence!

In Version 2, Guenael hides his existence from his opponent, causing them to search for him without knowing his location because he has already changed position and is hiding somewhere while observing them, as clearly shown in the anime itself. He appears to be hiding inside a green gap, and they cannot determine his exact location, which led the opponent to lure him into revealing himself while he was watching them from inside that green space through his eye because he had hidden his existence. The problem is that the phrase “hid his existence” does not mean that he literally became nonexistent. It simply means that he concealed his presence and traces from the opponent, and this is exactly what is shown. When he hides himself, he observes them from that place inside the green gap, and the manga itself supports this by stating that he changed the location of his existence. He simply changed his location; he did not become nonexistent, and up until now no one here has responded to this point.

When he hides his existence, he also does not disappear from his opponents’ memory—that is only Version 3, where he removes his existence from the opponent’s memory, which is simply memory manipulation and occurs specifically in Version 3.

"IN VERSION 1, MY FORM DISAPPEARS."
"IN VERSION 2, MY EXISTENCE DISAPPEARS."
"IN VERSION 2 THAT I JUST USED, WHEN MY FORM IS BEGINNING TO DISAPPEAR..."
"...MY EXISTENCE IS NO LONGER THERE."
"ONLY THE ILLUSION THAT YOU STRUCK THE AFTERIMAGE OF MY FORM... CAPTURED IN YOUR SIGHTS REMAINS."

The contradictions are obvious. He can be struck and injured, and he would have died. As for your comments about spirit, mind, body, and those concepts, they are irrelevant because I reject the premise that he is nonexistent in the first place. Bringing up those ideas serves no purpose when I am telling you that he exists and is simply hiding and concealing his presence inside that space while observing them with his eye as they remain unaware of his location.

He would have died from a small girl’s sword in the first place, and that explains everything. He was crying, frightened, and screaming.

Are these the actions of someone existing in a state of nonexistence? Lol. In any case, I do not know how the staff were convinced years ago by arguments that have no real connection to NEP.

Because of the phrase “hides his existence,” they granted him NEP—lol. That phrase carries countless meanings, and on top of that, it is obvious even in the anime itself that he is hiding from them and watching them with his eye. His eye appears, and he appears inside a green gap from which he watches and waits. When the girl drew that sword, he came out of his hiding place and attacked her, lol.

He was hiding—that is what “hiding his existence” means. In order to lure him out, the opponent used a simple trick, and he emerged and was beaten by an ordinary sword. He would have died from an ordinary sword while screaming.

 

[Torsin]

The contradictions are obvious. He can be struck and injured, and he would have died. As for your comments about spirit, mind, body, and those concepts, they are irrelevant because I reject the premise that he is nonexistent in the first place. Bringing up those ideas serves no purpose when I am telling you that he exists and is simply hiding and concealing his presence inside that space while observing them with his eye as they remain unaware of his location.

Using Gunael being attacked and injured in his Version 1 where he is existent as proof of him not having NEP is incorrect. I hate to bring other verses into this but for comparison it would be like using Minato hitting Obito with a Rasengan as a contradiction and claiming he has no intangibility even though we know Minato pinpointed the exact moment he had to become tangible. Yachiru is attacking the exact moment Gunael materializes himself to attack using her instinct and shikai ability.

He would have died from a small girl’s sword in the first place, and that explains everything. He was crying, frightened, and screaming.

Are these the actions of someone existing in a state of nonexistence? Lol. In any case, I do not know how the staff were convinced years ago by arguments that have no real connection to NEP.

Wtf is even this point? It doesn't matter if he shat himself. This isn't proof against him having NEP. What are we indexing abilities based on Aura farming now? Everything else again as I mentioned is your headcanon theory for what his ability is based on faulty contradictions that were debunked. And you make it seem like he is fighting a regular girl. That is a lieutenant class soul reaper using her shikai and she isn't even a regular one as it was confirmed by Kubo she is part of/ related to Kenpachi's sword. You are arguing from incredulity here so there is nothing to address here.

Ill leave the rest to staff now.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Using Gunael being attacked and injured in his Version 1 where he is existent as proof of him not having NEP is incorrect. I hate to bring other verses into this but for comparison it would be like using Minato hitting Obito with a Rasengan as a contradiction and claiming he has no intangibility even though we know Minato pinpointed the exact moment he had to become tangible. Yachiru is attacking the exact moment Gunael materializes himself to attack using her instinct and shikai ability.



Wtf is even this point? It doesn't matter if he shat himself. This isn't proof against him having NEP. What are we indexing abilities based on Aura farming now? Everything else again as I mentioned is your headcanon theory for what his ability is based on faulty contradictions that were debunked. And you make it seem like he is fighting a regular girl. That is a lieutenant class soul reaper using her shikai and she isn't even a regular one as it was confirmed by Kubo she is part of/ related to Kenpachi's sword. You are arguing from incredulity here so there is nothing to address here.

Ill leave the rest to staff now.

In short, you do not actually understand Version 2 or what is happening to Guenael at all.

Guenael in Version 2 is still existing, and this is the core point that you are ignoring, and that everyone here is also unable to properly respond to. Guenael still exists in Version 2, but he has only changed his location, and this is what the manga text proves ↓

"...MY EXISTENCE IS NO LONGER THERE."

Look for yourself. He has only changed his position; he has not ceased to exist as you assume. You still have not addressed this point, even though it is clearly shown in the anime as well, where he hides his presence inside a green gap, and while hiding, he observes them with his eye, occasionally revealing himself to see what is happening, as clearly shown. While he is hidden in this way, the opponent cannot determine or locate him, so the opponent uses a trick to force him out of his hiding place. Once he is forced to emerge, he is attacked and injured.
As clearly shown:

"IN VERSION 1, MY FORM DISAPPEARS."
"IN VERSION 2, MY EXISTENCE DISAPPEARS."
"IN VERSION 2 THAT I JUST USED, WHEN MY FORM IS BEGINNING TO DISAPPEAR..."
"...MY EXISTENCE IS NO LONGER THERE."
"ONLY THE ILLUSION THAT YOU STRUCK THE AFTERIMAGE OF MY FORM... CAPTURED IN YOUR SIGHTS REMAINS."

I do not know whether you can read or not. The manga clearly states that he only changed his location, yet you still insist that he entered a state of nonexistence. That is a massive leap in interpretation, while in reality he simply changed his position and is no longer there. From that position, he observes them, and thus the opponent cannot do anything to him until he reveals himself, because he has only changed location, as is clearly shown in both the manga and anime, and that is what “hiding his existence” actually means.

 

[Hellscream]

 

[CJunitilarian]

Azerty talking about reading when bud ignored canonicity yarns earlier then going up to bring the "anime" scene where explanation of the three versions aren't even shown and calls HellScream's clip "misleading"

Genuinely stop larping bro and stick to making revisions on verse's you're knowledge on (which bleach is obviously not part of)

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

Azerty talking about reading when bud ignored canonicity yarns earlier then going up to bring the "anime" scene where explanation of the three versions aren't even shown and calls HellScream's clip "misleading"

Genuinely stop larping bro and stick to making revisions on verse's you're knowledge on (which bleach is obviously not part of)

This is derailing and genuinely unhelpful, word of advice, don't do it again.

 

[Apotheosis69]

Literally everything in the justifications show textbook Nonexistent Physiology…

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Patently disagree with thread.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Imagine getting NEP 1 and NEP 3 just because of the phrase "hiding his existence."


Alright, let me clarify another point since people here do not seem to understand the scale of the mistake.


First, hiding your appearance, hiding your existence, or hiding your existence from your opponents' memories does not grant NEP. That is simply concealment, not actual nonexistence. I ask everyone to calm down and listen carefully.


Version 1 hides his appearance and becomes invisible.


Version 2 hides his existence, making it impossible for opponents to perceive his existence no matter what happens, while he still continues to exist. They simply cannot sense or see his presence, which is normal and does not mean he is nonexistent.


Version 3 hides his existence from his opponents' memories.


Now explain to me where exactly the NEP is here. Does hiding your existence from an opponent, hiding your appearance, or concealing your presence grant NEP?


Do you understand what "hiding" means? This is concealment, not the absence of existence. The character still exists but merely conceals himself, whether by hiding his appearance, hiding his presence, or hiding his existence from the memories of others. That does not place someone in a state of nonexistence; it simply means their existence is concealed from the opponent.


Even Goku, when he first reached Super Saiyan God, became impossible for normal humans to sense. Are we now going to claim that he was nonexistent simply because mortal beings could no longer sense his presence, as if he were not there?


The difference is that Goku remained visible because he did not hide his appearance. If he had hidden his appearance as well, he would be exactly like Guenael. His existence could no longer be sensed, yet he would still be visible, whereas the other character hides both his existence and appearance, making him impossible to see and impossible to sense. On top of that, he hides his existence from his opponents' memories so nobody remembers him.


I am honestly surprised that people approved NEP for this. Let's be realistic and leave emotions aside.


Hiding your existence does not mean you are in a state of nonexistence. Otherwise, characters capable of concealing their presence, such as Goku and many others, should all possess NEP. As I said, Guenael simply hides his appearance as well, making himself invisible. Furthermore, his presence cannot be sensed, which naturally prevents anyone from locating him.


Characters in fiction can often sense danger, beings, or objects without seeing them, merely through perception. If that thing hides its existence, you simply cannot sense it or determine its location. If it also hides its appearance, you cannot see it either. And if it erases itself from your memory, then you cannot remember it. That is all there is to it.


I do not know where the NEP came from. Funny, then funny again, and this is my final response. The community has apparently started granting NEP based on clear statements that have nothing to do with NEP.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Gish Gallop wall of text and weaponised attrition. Close this thread.

 

[Hellscream]

This has been the 10th time, that you've said "this is my final response"

You have been thoroughly debunked and keep repeating the same bullshit that has been addressed over and over like a broken disk.
Stop commenting with useless walls of text, and let staff handle this.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Gish Gallop wall of text and weaponised attrition. Close this thread.

Who are you to decide that? Also, I do not want you to make any comments unrelated to the topic from now on. Otherwise, I will report you.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

You should be the one to be reported. Don't threaten me.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

This has been the 10th time, that you've said "this is my final response"

You have been thoroughly debunked and keep repeating the same bullshit that has been addressed over and over like a broken disk.
Stop commenting with useless walls of text, and let staff handle this.

On the contrary, yes, let the staff handle this matter, and also do not speak as if you have actually refuted anything.

 

[Mommyleona]

Disagree FRA

 

[Hellscream]

On the contrary, yes, let the staff handle this matter, and also do not speak as if you have actually refuted anything.

You have been thoroughly destroyed my guy, you have absolutely no clue what you're yapping about.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

i think people might be dogpiling a bit too much on azerty

 

[Cipher72]

i think people might be dogpiling a bit too much on azerty

Alright, I have been following this thread and I wanted to keep quiet but I feel like I have to say this, a mod can delete this message later on btw.
Maybe he should stop acting like a Broken Clock then and stop larping whilst he is at it ? This isn't fun for the supporters as much as it is for him, repeating the same argument with the same substance that has been thoroughly addressed with the only caveat being "more words" which are essentially more headcanons and assumptions all whilst doubling down on his mockery of how the ability is indexed and the verse supporters are supposed to what ? Shut up and listen to him preach about how Bleach is "wanked" and how Guanel shouldn't have NEP ? Obviously people are getting heated but let's not act like it's one sided in any way shape of form (I know you know this as well)

Spoiler

On the contrary, yes, let the staff handle this matter, and also do not speak as if you have actually refuted anything.

Who are you to decide that? Also, I do not want you to make any comments unrelated to the topic from now on. Otherwise, I will report you.

The community has apparently started granting NEP based on clear statements that have nothing to do with NEP.

Imagine getting NEP 1 and NEP 3 just because of the phrase "hiding his existence."

You sent this clipped video again???
Anyway, here is the complete video. As for that video, it is misleading, so do not fall for it.

Please, just let the staff decide and do not reply to me again. If the staff decides that my argument is wrong, then the thread will simply be closed. There is no need for all this fear and bias here.

I do think that some of Hell's messages were a bit too aggressive but I don't particularly blame him and it would be hypocritical to even blame him when OP had an entire message dedicated to slandering Bleach fans

It's normal for Bleach fans to object and defend their series in this collective way, and on top of that, make accusations haha.

What substance does this add ?
Let's not act like he is a well mannered saint, two wrong don't make a right but it's hypocritical to only accuse one side but I do agree with you that both sides need to calm down and wait for the mods.
Anyways I disagree with this thread, ig someone should message the mods (I can).

 

[Hellscream]

I'll apologize for my poor behavior.
It's frustrating to deal with someone that blatantly ignores and handwaves counter-arguments that address his premise to the side, especially when it happens 10 times.
But i could have acted better, nonetheless.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

I'm very much inclined to disagree here... What a waste of time

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Pretty much agree with the rest of the opposition, voting in disagreement.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Alright, I have been following this thread and I wanted to keep quiet but I feel like I have to say this, a mod can delete this message later on btw.
Maybe he should stop acting like a Broken Clock then and stop larping whilst he is at it ? This isn't fun for the supporters as much as it is for him, repeating the same argument with the same substance that has been thoroughly addressed with the only caveat being "more words" which are essentially more headcanons and assumptions all whilst doubling down on his mockery of how the ability is indexed and the verse supporters are supposed to what ? Shut up and listen to him preach about how Bleach is "wanked" and how Guanel shouldn't have NEP ? Obviously people are getting heated but let's not act like it's one sided in any way shape of form (I know you know this as well)
I do think that some of Hell's messages were a bit too aggressive but I don't particularly blame him and it would be hypocritical to even blame him when OP had an entire message dedicated to slandering Bleach fans

What substance does this add ?
Let's not act like he is a well mannered saint, two wrong don't make a right but it's hypocritical to only accuse one side but I do agree with you that both sides need to calm down and wait for the mods.
Anyways I disagree with this thread, ig someone should message the mods (I can).

Honestly, I have not seen any actual response here. Up until now, nobody has really addressed the point. I want to understand how hiding my existence or my form qualifies as possessing NEP; only then can I accept the argument.

Hiding my form or existence from an opponent does not mean that I am nonexistent, and that is completely obvious. No one has been able to answer this so far. Hiding my existence simply means that the opponent is unable to know my location or sense my presence, while hiding my form only means that the opponent cannot see me.

Hiding your existence ≠ Nonexistence

Billions of fictional characters can hide their existence and even their form, so why are they not all granted NEP?

"IN VERSION 1, MY FORM DISAPPEARS."
"IN VERSION 2, MY EXISTENCE DISAPPEARS."
"IN VERSION 2 THAT I JUST USED, WHEN MY FORM IS BEGINNING TO DISAPPEAR..."
"...MY EXISTENCE IS NO LONGER THERE."
"ONLY THE ILLUSION THAT YOU STRUCK THE AFTERIMAGE OF MY FORM... CAPTURED IN YOUR SIGHTS REMAINS."

This is the text in front of everyone. All he does is hide his form and existence from the opponent, and that is all.

When he hides his existence, the opponent becomes unable to know or pinpoint his location and cannot sense any presence from him. Bleach characters are normally capable of detecting someone through reiatsu or even through the five senses, but if the opponent hides their existence as well, then the five senses become useless for locating them, and sensing reiatsu or anything else becomes ineffective because their existence has been concealed and their location cannot be determined at all.

How do you interpret this ↓

"...MY EXISTENCE IS NO LONGER THERE."

"My existence is no longer there." This proves that he still exists and is simply somewhere else. That is the only reasonable interpretation of the phrase “my existence is no longer there.”

Watch the episode yourself. Is it not obvious that at first he hides his form, where the opponent looks around and sees nothing but is still able to locate him through the five senses and by sensing his presence? After that, he hides his existence and it becomes impossible to determine his location at all, which forces the opponent to lure him out of the hiding place he was in because she did not know where he was and could not locate him. Once he came out, he was targeted with an ordinary sword and would have died on top of that.

 

[Hellscream]

Honestly, I have not seen any actual response here. Up until now, nobody has really addressed the point. I want to understand how hiding my existence or my form qualifies as possessing NEP; only then can I accept the argument.

Hiding my form or existence from an opponent does not mean that I am nonexistent, and that is completely obvious. No one has been able to answer this so far. Hiding my existence simply means that the opponent is unable to know my location or sense my presence, while hiding my form only means that the opponent cannot see me.

Hiding your existence ≠ Nonexistence

Read the forms of the characters, and correlate them with what he does in the series, like i've shown.

Version 1, makes his form disappear, nothing much there, he's simply not visible anymore.
Version 2, states his existence itself disappears.
Version 3, his existence disappears from your mind.

You are correct that hiding your form does not make you non existent, which is why version 1 does not grant NEP.
It's the second form that does, he does not hide his existence, it's directly stated and shown to disappear.
Literally none of the shit you mentioned applies.

Billions of fictional characters can hide their existence and even their form, so why are they not all granted NEP?

False equivalence, he's not "hiding" his existence for the billionth time.

This is the text in front of everyone. All he does is hide his form and existence from the opponent, and that is all.

When he hides his existence, the opponent becomes unable to know or pinpoint his location and cannot sense any presence from him. Bleach characters are normally capable of detecting someone through reiatsu or even through the five senses, but if the opponent hides their existence as well, then the five senses become useless for locating them, and sensing reiatsu or anything else becomes ineffective because their existence has been concealed and their location cannot be determined at all.

Yes, you're talking about version one, where he hides his form congratulations.
This has nothing to do with version two, which i've shown in the video of yachiru trying to hit him, when he's in version 2, with us being literally able to see her fist going through him, while he's still in the same exact spot.

Your bias is made upon him switching places, that is nowhere stated or implied.
And i proved this.

How do you interpret this ↓



"My existence is no longer there." This proves that he still exists and is simply somewhere else. That is the only reasonable interpretation of the phrase “my existence is no longer there.”

I have literally eplained over and over how "my existence is no longer there" is literally what happens when he enters version 2.
Prior to entering version 2, his existence is still there ---- he enters version 2, which causes his existence itself to disappear, meaning "his existence is no longer there"
that is what it means, and i've literally shown it to you with proof, in the fight itself, where he STATES he entered version 2, with her fist going through him.

Watch the episode yourself. Is it not obvious that at first he hides his form, where the opponent looks around and sees nothing but is still able to locate him through the five senses and by sensing his presence? After that, he hides his existence and it becomes impossible to determine his location at all, which forces the opponent to lure him out of the hiding place he was in because she did not know where he was and could not locate him. Once he came out, he was targeted with an ordinary sword and would have died on top of that.

He has 3 versions.
One hides his form.
Second one erases his existence, stop mixing them up, and using version one instead.
He literally spoonfed us the capability of his ability, and what every version does, with the fact that he's capable of switching between them quickly.
Yachiru is purely fighting and reacting with fighting instinct, she is not a shinigami, she's the sword of kenpachi.
And Guenael is incapable of attacking her, without exiting his second version.

The case where he audibly utilizes version two, is the one where her attack went straight through him.
Like this shit is insanely simple to understand.