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Acheron does NOT have acausality type 2

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Not open for further replies.
hes still erasing a part of history tho no?

Actually now that i think abt it how did this ever pass as history EE when the erasure happened in the present? The erased from history stuff could deadass just be summed up to flowery language for izumo being destroyed and no one knowing why lol im fine with removing that aswell tho
If her history is erased then it means she's acausal 😭😭😭

It passed because it is. That is absolutely not getting removed. Lol. Even the average HSR player knows Acheron has multiple types of EE.

Also in these threads:




There's no conseus saying that past needs to be constantly erased to be eligible for Type 2.

Also with just a little of looking around of profiles that have Type 2, I ain't see anywhere anybody saying this either. The justification is just "Is not affected by changes to the past or future".



This doesn't even mean that if you time travel to a past moment of them being there, you wouldn't find them. It means, that if you interacted with them, they wouldn't be affected in the present.

So yall be bullshitting I am sorry.
 
If her history is erased then it means she's acausal 😭😭😭

It passed because it is. That is absolutely not getting removed. Lol. Even the average HSR player knows Acheron has multiple types of EE.
Im lowkey not even sure what ur talking abt here
Also in these threads:




There's no conseus saying that past needs to be constantly erased to be eligible for Type 2.
Having your history constantly erased you mean all history before the current point in time, aka the present, doesnt exist and thus you would be akin to a temporal singularity hence why the name of type 2 is temporal singularity. You only exist as a singular point in time

Type 2: Temporal Singularity

Also with just a little of looking around of profiles that have Type 2, I ain't see anywhere anybody saying this either. The justification is just "Is not affected by changes to the past or future".



This doesn't even mean that if you time travel to a past moment of them being there, you wouldn't find them. It means, that if you interacted with them, they wouldn't be affected in the present.
This is just type 1. Which isnt possible for most characters in the verse due to MWI
So yall be bullshitting I am sorry.
life blooms like a flower
Far away or by the road
Waiting for the one
To find the way back home
 
Having your history constantly erased you mean all history before the current point in time, aka the present, doesnt exist and thus you would be akin to a temporal singularity hence why the name of type 2 is temporal singularity. You only exist as a singular point in time
Having your history erased one time isnt included because you can still make new history after the point of erasure so long as you dont get erased from the history erasure. This is why having your history CONSTANTLY erased qualifies for type 2 and not one time erasure otherwise you would characters like goku black with type 1 and 2
 
Having your history constantly erased you mean all history before the current point in time, aka the present, doesnt exist and thus you would be akin to a temporal singularity hence why the name of type 2 is temporal singularity. You only exist as a singular point in time
No that's wrong. It just means you are not affected by what happens in the past or future. You don't need your history constantly erased.
Having your history erased one time isnt included because you can still make new history after the point of erasure so long as you dont get erased from the history erasure. This is why having your history CONSTANTLY erased qualifies for type 2 and not one time erasure otherwise you would characters like goku black with type 1 and 2
That's not what's needed to be qualifed as I've shown in the other profiles that have it.
 
Last and maybe final message that's going to be long.

So, what does this provide for Aca2 ??
If her history is erased then it means she's acausal 😭😭😭

It passed because it is. That is absolutely not getting removed. Lol. Even the average HSR player knows Acheron has multiple types of EE.

Also in these threads:




These threads mean nothing + they're all from 2019. Just a pointer,
If those verses have Aca2 then they should probably also get looked at to make sure it's legit or not.
So.. yea
There's no conseus saying that past needs to be constantly erased to be eligible for Type 2.

Also with just a little of looking around of profiles that have Type 2, I ain't see anywhere anybody saying this either. The justification is just "Is not affected by changes to the past or future".



Type 2: Temporal Singularity: Characters with this type of Acausality do not exist in either the **past or the future, only the present. This means they cannot be affected by changes to the past, while also making them resistant to Precognition that works by viewing the future, as they do not exist within it, and Fate Manipulation, for the same reason. In essence, they are able to choose their own fates, but they remain just as vulnerable at the point in time in which they do exist.** ?? Ok then!

This doesn't even mean that if you time travel to a past moment of them being there, you wouldn't find them. It means, that if you interacted with them, they wouldn't be affected in the present.

So yall be bullshitting I am sorry.
Ok.
I guess Giving the literal descriptions is us BSing.

Also I'm pretty sure (I know Nova or Scoops could correct me if I'm wrong) , that nihility blocks other paths , which would make sense if Elio can't see her as I'm p sure he's on finality path. (Please do correct me if this is wrong 😭)

And I'm pretty sure standards have slightly changed since then so..
 
No that's wrong. It just means you are not affected by what happens in the past or future. You don't need your history constantly erased.
So you just didnt read my explanation. Got it. No point in responding after this
That's not what's needed to be qualifed as I've shown in the other profiles that have it.
Same as above, those other profiles can get looked at too, though thats irrelevant to this case.
 
It's not irrelevant it's called wiki standards.
Its not wiki standards when this thread is targetting one specific case im not required to tackle nor care about those cases because they arent relevant to this case. If you want to address them make another thread for them but thats not what this thread is for. Its been 5 pages and 1 staff agrees ill stop here and wait for more staff
 
Its not wiki standards when this thread is targetting one specific case im not required to tackle nor care about those cases because they arent relevant to this case. If you want to address them make another thread for them but thats not what this thread is for. Its been 5 pages and 1 staff agrees ill stop here and wait for more staff
What are u talking about if there's precedent and it's been established then that's what's gonna happen anyway

No they did not agree. They said they'd wait for more supporters to give their opinion.
 
What are u talking about if there's precedent and it's been established then that's what's gonna happen anyway

No they did not agree. They said they'd wait for more supporters to give their opinion.
Son
IMG-8364.jpg


IMG-8363.jpg
 
Yes. You can put it on neutral now so the votes aren't swayed by someone who themselves said is not familiar and will rely on other votes.

used to express the possibility that something will happen or be done, or that something is true although not very likely:

I might come and visit you next year, if I can save enough money.

Don't go any closer - it might be dangerous/it might not be safe.
might have Driving so fast, he might have had a nasty accident (= it could have happened but it did not).

The rain might have stopped by now.

My vote might change after that (= the possibility of the vote changing after certain conditions) implying that currently its not neutral and favors the OP
 
Last edited:
… I came after sometimes and THIS is what I see, have this relatively simple and straightforward thread unironically become THIS LONG?

Even NOVA and ACTUALITYSPACEMAN had come and it isn't concluded…

Alright, let's see how it goes, by OP's side of reasoning, which I indeed agree to.

1. Nihility does not erase Acheron's past, it just so veils it and so makes it hidden from the preying eyes.

2. However, even if we would argue that her past has been indeed erased, an individual still can create past and have a future by participation in the flow of time, which unless we have any reasoning for Acheron to get her past passively erased so no traces of it remains, or being an entity that by virtue is a temporal singularity (i.e exist in an state that past and future collapsing into eternal present), there is no reason for us to give Acheron Ac2.

3. As been repeatedly said within the op, again, Cyrene recreating the universe indeed matters, and op should continue hammering it into the discussion until it goes into the head of every single individual. Cyrene recreating the universe through the power of Remembrance, and Remembrance is the act of preserving memories, and memories belong to the past. Acheron exist throughout this past, which is enough to imply there indeed exist a past. If you want to say something like "Cyrene captured the universe RIGHT BEFORE the nuke when Acheron was alive in the present!" Congratulations! As Nova also so brilliantly pointed out, "RIGHT BEFORE" is indeed a past tense! And so as dear Mbpoops gave us the dictionary of "might", I give us the dictionary of "before".

at or during a time earlier than (the thing mentioned):
You should always wash your hands before meals.
[ + -ing verb ] Before leaving, he said goodbye to each of them.
She's always up before dawn.
Before he could reach the door, she quickly closed it.
Before we make a decision, does anyone want to say anything else?
She had to give the doorman a tip before he would help her with her suitcases (= he would not do it until she had given him a tip).
Thesaurus: synonyms, antonyms, and examples
before something
before Try to arrive before the start of the meeting.
prior to All utensils should be washed prior to use.
in advance of Call in advance of your visit to see if you'll need a parking reservation.
ahead of My sister is arriving ahead of me to do the shopping for the dinner.
by Make sure you're back by midnight.
Combridge Dictionary, Before

For me it is already pretty enough of a reasoning to take off Ac2, not even mentioning the other glaring contents.
 
Has acausality been changed since then?
Pretty sure it has, otherwise we'd be using what's said in 2019
But that doesn't matter, as that's still not proof for Acasuality 2, when I've given the description for it..
And as I said previously.
There's nothing proving she's immune to Elios script like that..
Her past can be changed,
If Terminus is capable of time traveling proving he could see her, it would disqualify type2
There's nothing temporal. If one can simply undo the actions that cause and effect has layed out.
Also when they're talking about something shouldn't exist, they don't mean Acheron, they mean the path she follows.
Nilhility: nothingness, the state of nonexistence, or a total absence of meaning
And what does she follow? Oh that's right, she follows Nilhility.
 
1. Nihility does not erase Acheron's past, it just so veils it and so makes it hidden from the preying eyes.
Speculation. Based on no evidence. In fact, everything he said about this is headcanon and refuted.
2. However, even if we would argue that her past has been indeed erased, an individual still can create past and have a future by participation in the flow of time, which unless we have any reasoning for Acheron to get her past passively erased so no traces of it remains, or being an entity that by virtue is a temporal singularity (i.e exist in an state that past and future collapsing into eternal present), there is no reason for us to give Acheron Ac2.
There's multiple evidence of this.
3. As been repeatedly said within the op, again, Cyrene recreating the universe indeed matters, and op should continue hammering it into the discussion until it goes into the head of every single individual. Cyrene recreating the universe through the power of Remembrance, and Remembrance is the act of preserving memories, and memories belong to the past. Acheron exist throughout this past, which is enough to imply there indeed exist a past. If you want to say something like "Cyrene captured the universe RIGHT BEFORE the nuke when Acheron was alive in the present!" Congratulations! As Nova also so brilliantly pointed out, "RIGHT BEFORE" is indeed a past tense! And so as dear Mbpoops gave us the dictionary of "might", I give us the dictionary of "before".
Surprise, you can have your past erased only once or for it to not exist in some manner and still be acausal 2 while being active in current history, interacting with it and create a past. Not to mention, this entire "argument" is speculation that we never saw on screen nor talked about it
 
I find myself agreeing with the OP. There seem to be a lot of discussion after the summary post in page 3, so can someone please summarize all the arguments from both sides again?

And which staff usually participate in CRTs for this verse, if I may ask?
In case if any staff or people skim through thread and dont want to read whole arguments, I didnt read arguments from both sides and will get to thread when i get free tmrw or later

Summary
my last comment to support the idea she has a past and future.

Her path leads her to a new tomorrow this wouldnt be possible if nihility deletes your past and future. Nihility deleting your past and future is also contradicted by zephyro being predicted by elio in another future, zephyro being a self annihilator of nihility, something we currently accept on the wiki. This point is also tackled in the OP with no real contention.

Acheron treads trails of the past and even remembers her past proving her past still exists.

Some might say this is acausality type 2 but that would be ignoring the context of the statement. She is not talking about her being having no past present or future, rather her reason for drawing her blade remains the same regardless of the point in time.

Speaking of her blade, everytime she uses it the memories of using it, from the point of it's origin, return to her. This proves that nihility didnt destroy her past but rather obscured them (as ive been arguing)

Others also remember acheron's deeds, which is something acheron herself even says will happen, proving that she is temporally present in the past. others remembering things she has done shouldnt be possible if her past is supposedly deleted by the nihility. The entire plot of 3.8 happens within our memories and acheron is present there which shouldnt be possible if Nihility supposedly deletes her past as the opposition has been saying. Not to mention that if Nihility deletes her past none of these scenes should have happened or be remembered by other characters, yet they are. Maybe because her past still exists and is just obscured by nihility. Last but not least, we're able to have a false memories with acheron in them the plot of 3.8 is recalling our true memories that were sealed away by the dahlia, everything from this part to sunday's loss is in lore a fake memory created by the dahlia to hide the truth so we wont die in amphoreus. How can we have fake memories of someone who is supposedly deleted at that point in time? How can someone create fake memories of someone who doesnt exist in the past or future?

also just to point out, but erasing history isnt proof of acausality type 2, thats just existence erasure. for acausality type 2 you need proof she isn't temporally present in the future or past, which there hasnt been any proof of in this thread from the opposition





These, and the OP, should be evidence enough she still has a past even after becoming an emanator. there is no proof that she became acasual after becoming an emanator until i see scans proving that its pure headcanon. everything else is addressed in the OP

i will now wait for staff
Whatever. I'll make a final tl;dr (almost) writeup and just end it here unless a mod replies.

Nihility's power has long been accepted to be the opposite of existence. Capable of erasing things from reality as if they've never existed. It erases cause and effect and fate. These scans are on IX's profile and they come from Acheron's power as both of them wield Nihility. Since Acheron can do those things, it's expected that IX (her source of power) can too.

Acheron's homeland was struck and affected by IX's Shadow and she eventually obliterated it with a single slash mentioned here as well. This slash erased it from the memories of the world as if it never existed. Following this, Acheron was annihilated herself and sank into Nihility and started being erased. Acheron's past is gone in the sense that within the timeline, Izumo was erased from ever existing. This means that the causal chain between her origin and her existence has severed. Hence why it's been said that she "isn't supposed to exist".

The people who went to explore what happened to it found ONLY traces of Enigmata after its destruction hiding its history.

What OP is saying here

is a misreading of the relic's description. The description is given to us by an omniscient narrator. Not an in-game character. Nobody else in-universe is aware of this history. There's no traces left of it hence why people wonder what actually happened to it and even question its existence. IX technically knows what happened to it because they, passively, destroyed it. IX however being an apathetic, uninteractive and stagnant Aeon who doesn't communicate with anyone, won't spit the answer out. Because it's sleeping. Not because it has a hidden agenda. It doesn't think. This belongs to Enigmata which is why they hid and manipulated all information surrounding Izumo.

Acheron, because she is a temporal paradox, has no future. Elio who supposedly sees all timelines and possibilities has no trace of her anywhere.

The claim that the Hunters are not given their full scripts is not accurate. The scene is crucial piece of information about Acheron's existence and nature. There's no evidence that Firefly didn't have the full script at the time as we know that there's times when scripts are given to the Hunters with even the last of the details being in them. Claiming that FF didn't have the full script at that moment is speculative and frankly goes against the narrative of the scene whose point is to slowly reveal that Acheron is a self-annihilator. It's a pivotal point of the Penacony Arc. The question is very specific. She's asking about her future and Firefly answers her that she doesn't have one.

Acheron still remembers the old history exactly as it was, even though that version of it no longer exists anymore. Her own past stays intact in her memory and identity, while the world around her has moved onto a different history. So she ends up existing as proof of a reality that technically no longer exists. That's the basis of Acausality.

The point is that the world/history she originated from was consumed by Nihility when she became an Emanator destroying the causal continuity of her existence. Other people remembering Acheron’s actions does not disprove this in any case. Why would Acheron not be capable of interacting with the present timeline and leave observable effects? Nobody argued she became nonexistent or incapable of causally interacting with reality.

The entire point is that she survives after the destruction/consumption of the history and future connected to her world. She carries memories and continuity from something swallowed by Nihility.

The 3.8 memory segments happen after Acheron already became an Emanator and after the events involving Izumo/Takamagahara were consumed by Nihility. So using scenes from 3.8 to “prove her past still exists normally” makes no sense because those scenes are taking place after all of that already happened.

Only her origin point is gone, not her ongoing existence. The past that produced her was erased, but the “now” continues with her still inside it.

As for Passive Prob Manip, I am neutral as she doesn't have a predetermined future like other Pathstriders.

Lastly, nuking her Acausality 2 would affect IX's powers too since a lot of them are infered from how the obliteration of Izumo and herself erased the past and the future. And we are just not doing that for a number of reasons.
The arguments are here.

Additionally, there's been a discourse over what the requirments of Acausality 2 are. OP and friends have been arguing that it requires for one to not be able to leave any traces or create any sort of history after their past has been erased. Aka their past is being erased continuously. A never-ending on-going process.

I am arguing that this is not true and it's sufficient for someone to have no past or future and only exist in the presence without being affected by anything in the past as there's further proof of this of profiles that have it while their past is not erased.
 
… I came after sometimes and THIS is what I see, have this relatively simple and straightforward thread unironically become THIS LONG?

Even NOVA and ACTUALITYSPACEMAN had come and it isn't concluded…

Alright, let's see how it goes, by OP's side of reasoning, which I indeed agree to.

1. Nihility does not erase Acheron's past, it just so veils it and so makes it hidden from the preying eyes.

2. However, even if we would argue that her past has been indeed erased, an individual still can create past and have a future by participation in the flow of time, which unless we have any reasoning for Acheron to get her past passively erased so no traces of it remains, or being an entity that by virtue is a temporal singularity (i.e exist in an state that past and future collapsing into eternal present), there is no reason for us to give Acheron Ac2.

3. As been repeatedly said within the op, again, Cyrene recreating the universe indeed matters, and op should continue hammering it into the discussion until it goes into the head of every single individual. Cyrene recreating the universe through the power of Remembrance, and Remembrance is the act of preserving memories, and memories belong to the past. Acheron exist throughout this past, which is enough to imply there indeed exist a past. If you want to say something like "Cyrene captured the universe RIGHT BEFORE the nuke when Acheron was alive in the present!" Congratulations! As Nova also so brilliantly pointed out, "RIGHT BEFORE" is indeed a past tense! And so as dear Mbpoops gave us the dictionary of "might", I give us the dictionary of "before".



For me it is already pretty enough of a reasoning to take off Ac2, not even mentioning the other glaring contents.
starting with this great explanation
 
Whatever. I'll make a final tl;dr (almost) writeup and just end it here unless a mod replies.

Nihility's power has long been accepted to be the opposite of existence. Capable of erasing things from reality as if they've never existed. It erases cause and effect and fate. These scans are on IX's profile and they come from Acheron's power as both of them wield Nihility. Since Acheron can do those things, it's expected that IX (her source of power) can too.

Acheron's homeland was struck and affected by IX's Shadow and she eventually obliterated it with a single slash mentioned here as well. This slash erased it from the memories of the world as if it never existed. Following this, Acheron was annihilated herself and sank into Nihility and started being erased. Acheron's past is gone in the sense that within the timeline, Izumo was erased from ever existing. This means that the causal chain between her origin and her existence has severed. Hence why it's been said that she "isn't supposed to exist".

The people who went to explore what happened to it found ONLY traces of Enigmata after its destruction hiding its history.

What OP is saying here

is a misreading of the relic's description. The description is given to us by an omniscient narrator. Not an in-game character. Nobody else in-universe is aware of this history. There's no traces left of it hence why people wonder what actually happened to it and even question its existence. IX technically knows what happened to it because they, passively, destroyed it. IX however being an apathetic, uninteractive and stagnant Aeon who doesn't communicate with anyone, won't spit the answer out. Because it's sleeping. Not because it has a hidden agenda. It doesn't think. This belongs to Enigmata which is why they hid and manipulated all information surrounding Izumo.

Acheron, because she is a temporal paradox, has no future. Elio who supposedly sees all timelines and possibilities has no trace of her anywhere.

The claim that the Hunters are not given their full scripts is not accurate. The scene is crucial piece of information about Acheron's existence and nature. There's no evidence that Firefly didn't have the full script at the time as we know that there's times when scripts are given to the Hunters with even the last of the details being in them. Claiming that FF didn't have the full script at that moment is speculative and frankly goes against the narrative of the scene whose point is to slowly reveal that Acheron is a self-annihilator. It's a pivotal point of the Penacony Arc. The question is very specific. She's asking about her future and Firefly answers her that she doesn't have one.

Acheron still remembers the old history exactly as it was, even though that version of it no longer exists anymore. Her own past stays intact in her memory and identity, while the world around her has moved onto a different history. So she ends up existing as proof of a reality that technically no longer exists. That's the basis of Acausality.

The point is that the world/history she originated from was consumed by Nihility when she became an Emanator destroying the causal continuity of her existence. Other people remembering Acheron’s actions does not disprove this in any case. Why would Acheron not be capable of interacting with the present timeline and leave observable effects? Nobody argued she became nonexistent or incapable of causally interacting with reality.

The entire point is that she survives after the destruction/consumption of the history and future connected to her world. She carries memories and continuity from something swallowed by Nihility.

The 3.8 memory segments happen after Acheron already became an Emanator and after the events involving Izumo/Takamagahara were consumed by Nihility. So using scenes from 3.8 to “prove her past still exists normally” makes no sense because those scenes are taking place after all of that already happened.

Only her origin point is gone, not her ongoing existence. The past that produced her was erased, but the “now” continues with her still inside it.

As for Passive Prob Manip, I am neutral as she doesn't have a predetermined future like other Pathstriders.

Lastly, nuking her Acausality 2 would affect IX's powers too since a lot of them are infered from how the obliteration of Izumo and herself erased the past and the future. And we are just not doing that for a number of reasons.
bumping so the responses are beside eachother i guess i should also preface that this thread isnt removing passive probability manip, the only reason it is brought up is because it contradicts Aca type 2
my and nightgale's original summaries
 
Can u delete this and wait instead of clogging? The comments of others are irrelevant. They are just spamming this chat repeating your own arguments. It's pointless.
sorry my pc doesnt let me save replies from other pages for some reason so i have to go through and send them individually it works on mobile sometimes tho most i can do is just rebump your message
The arguments are here.

Additionally, there's been a discourse over what the requirments of Acausality 2 are. OP and friends have been arguing that it requires for one to not be able to leave any traces or create any sort of history after their past has been erased. Aka their past is being erased continuously. A never-ending on-going process.

I am arguing that this is not true and it's sufficient for someone to have no past or future and only exist in the presence without being affected by anything in the past as there's further proof of this of profiles that have it while their past is not erased.
 
I think both sides agree to leave the rest to staff so that they can make a proper evaluation, right?


In case if any staff or people skim through thread and dont want to read whole arguments, I didnt read arguments from both sides and will get to thread when i get free tmrw or later

Summary
my last comment to support the idea she has a past and future.

Her path leads her to a new tomorrow this wouldnt be possible if nihility deletes your past and future. Nihility deleting your past and future is also contradicted by zephyro being predicted by elio in another future, zephyro being a self annihilator of nihility, something we currently accept on the wiki. This point is also tackled in the OP with no real contention.

Acheron treads trails of the past and even remembers her past proving her past still exists.

Some might say this is acausality type 2 but that would be ignoring the context of the statement. She is not talking about her being having no past present or future, rather her reason for drawing her blade remains the same regardless of the point in time.

Speaking of her blade, everytime she uses it the memories of using it, from the point of it's origin, return to her. This proves that nihility didnt destroy her past but rather obscured them (as ive been arguing)

Others also remember acheron's deeds, which is something acheron herself even says will happen, proving that she is temporally present in the past. others remembering things she has done shouldnt be possible if her past is supposedly deleted by the nihility. The entire plot of 3.8 happens within our memories and acheron is present there which shouldnt be possible if Nihility supposedly deletes her past as the opposition has been saying. Not to mention that if Nihility deletes her past none of these scenes should have happened or be remembered by other characters, yet they are. Maybe because her past still exists and is just obscured by nihility. Last but not least, we're able to have a false memories with acheron in them the plot of 3.8 is recalling our true memories that were sealed away by the dahlia, everything from this part to sunday's loss is in lore a fake memory created by the dahlia to hide the truth so we wont die in amphoreus. How can we have fake memories of someone who is supposedly deleted at that point in time? How can someone create fake memories of someone who doesnt exist in the past or future?

also just to point out, but erasing history isnt proof of acausality type 2, thats just existence erasure. for acausality type 2 you need proof she isn't temporally present in the future or past, which there hasnt been any proof of in this thread from the opposition





These, and the OP, should be evidence enough she still has a past even after becoming an emanator. there is no proof that she became acasual after becoming an emanator until i see scans proving that its pure headcanon. everything else is addressed in the OP

i will now wait for staff
Whatever. I'll make a final tl;dr (almost) writeup and just end it here unless a mod replies.

Nihility's power has long been accepted to be the opposite of existence. Capable of erasing things from reality as if they've never existed. It erases cause and effect and fate. These scans are on IX's profile and they come from Acheron's power as both of them wield Nihility. Since Acheron can do those things, it's expected that IX (her source of power) can too.

Acheron's homeland was struck and affected by IX's Shadow and she eventually obliterated it with a single slash mentioned here as well. This slash erased it from the memories of the world as if it never existed. Following this, Acheron was annihilated herself and sank into Nihility and started being erased. Acheron's past is gone in the sense that within the timeline, Izumo was erased from ever existing. This means that the causal chain between her origin and her existence has severed. Hence why it's been said that she "isn't supposed to exist".

The people who went to explore what happened to it found ONLY traces of Enigmata after its destruction hiding its history.

What OP is saying here

is a misreading of the relic's description. The description is given to us by an omniscient narrator. Not an in-game character. Nobody else in-universe is aware of this history. There's no traces left of it hence why people wonder what actually happened to it and even question its existence. IX technically knows what happened to it because they, passively, destroyed it. IX however being an apathetic, uninteractive and stagnant Aeon who doesn't communicate with anyone, won't spit the answer out. Because it's sleeping. Not because it has a hidden agenda. It doesn't think. This belongs to Enigmata which is why they hid and manipulated all information surrounding Izumo.

Acheron, because she is a temporal paradox, has no future. Elio who supposedly sees all timelines and possibilities has no trace of her anywhere.

The claim that the Hunters are not given their full scripts is not accurate. The scene is crucial piece of information about Acheron's existence and nature. There's no evidence that Firefly didn't have the full script at the time as we know that there's times when scripts are given to the Hunters with even the last of the details being in them. Claiming that FF didn't have the full script at that moment is speculative and frankly goes against the narrative of the scene whose point is to slowly reveal that Acheron is a self-annihilator. It's a pivotal point of the Penacony Arc. The question is very specific. She's asking about her future and Firefly answers her that she doesn't have one.

Acheron still remembers the old history exactly as it was, even though that version of it no longer exists anymore. Her own past stays intact in her memory and identity, while the world around her has moved onto a different history. So she ends up existing as proof of a reality that technically no longer exists. That's the basis of Acausality.

The point is that the world/history she originated from was consumed by Nihility when she became an Emanator destroying the causal continuity of her existence. Other people remembering Acheron’s actions does not disprove this in any case. Why would Acheron not be capable of interacting with the present timeline and leave observable effects? Nobody argued she became nonexistent or incapable of causally interacting with reality.

The entire point is that she survives after the destruction/consumption of the history and future connected to her world. She carries memories and continuity from something swallowed by Nihility.

The 3.8 memory segments happen after Acheron already became an Emanator and after the events involving Izumo/Takamagahara were consumed by Nihility. So using scenes from 3.8 to “prove her past still exists normally” makes no sense because those scenes are taking place after all of that already happened.

Only her origin point is gone, not her ongoing existence. The past that produced her was erased, but the “now” continues with her still inside it.

As for Passive Prob Manip, I am neutral as she doesn't have a predetermined future like other Pathstriders.

Lastly, nuking her Acausality 2 would affect IX's powers too since a lot of them are infered from how the obliteration of Izumo and herself erased the past and the future. And we are just not doing that for a number of reasons.


Your help is appreciated here
@Vietthai96 @Planck69 @TWILIGHT-OP @Reiner04
 
I think both sides agree to leave the rest to staff so that they can make a proper evaluation, right?





Your help is appreciated here
@Vietthai96 @Planck69 @TWILIGHT-OP @Reiner04
Well it's only one side that keeps spamming threads and has random ppl brought over from other verses who have no idea what is being discussed just to agree with them and fill out the "Agree" section especially when controversial changes and verses are meant, by the rules, to have knowledgable members... but yes

Also, can you ping ANY of these people on the matter of Acausality? I am genuinely really curious.

@Theglassman12 @Everything12 @Deceived3596 @Elizhaa @TheGreatJedi13 @Astral_Trinity439 @FinePoint
 
Well it's only one side that keeps spamming threads and has random ppl brought over from other verses who have no idea what is being discussed just to agree with them and fill out the "Agree" section especially when controversial changes and verses are meant, by the rules, to have knowledgable members... but yes

Also, can you ping ANY of these people on the matter of Acausality? I am genuinely really curious.

@Theglassman12 @Everything12 @Deceived3596 @Elizhaa @TheGreatJedi13 @Astral_Trinity439 @FinePoint
There are literally no staff for this verse specifically so any staff you call will be the same as spaceman except maybe reiner and viett tho viett self admittedly hasnt played hsr

None of those people you pinged have deep knowledge of the verse but eh idm more opinions personally
 
There are literally no staff for this verse specifically so any staff you call will be the same as spaceman except maybe reiner and viett tho viett self admittedly hasnt played hsr

None of those people you pinged have deep knowledge of the verse but eh idm more opinions personally
If you had read the link you'd see I asked for people listed as familiar on acausality and its rules since that's a disagreement we have over how we are meant to view it.
 
The arguments are here.

Additionally, there's been a discourse over what the requirments of Acausality 2 are. OP and friends have been arguing that it requires for one to not be able to leave any traces or create any sort of history after their past has been erased. Aka their past is being erased continuously. A never-ending on-going process.

I am arguing that this is not true and it's sufficient for someone to have no past or future and only exist in the presence without being affected by anything in the past as there's further proof of this of profiles that have it while their past is not erased.
sorry my pc doesnt let me save replies from other pages for some reason so i have to go through and send them individually it works on mobile sometimes tho most i can do is just rebump your message
Here to here is basically the summaries i prolly missed some but if needed i can go back and find them
 
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