Acheron does NOT have acausality type 2

[Mbpoops]

shes present across multiple timelines??? QUICK ACA 3 OMGGGGG

Unironically helia should qualify but ill ask that in another thread

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

You’re taking the words too literslly and ignoring the context surrounding them. Her past isnt gone in a sense that it doesnt exist they just dont know what happened to it because nihility is obscuring it we have information of her past and terminus sees her while actively traveling to the past so she does exist in the past and she exists in the future unless we say those 4 other timelines acheron doesnt exist

The context you made up? The context is this which is what's been accepted for ages. "Taking it too literally" when it's what the game straight up tells us is kinda crazy. We have a whole page of scans including one that says not even memories of Izumo remain despite whole other timelines being present in the form of memoria even if collapsed. What you are saying is not supported by anything.

the opposite of everything that makes up all of existence, which includes body, mind, soul, spirit, life, logic, matter, space, time, order, history, concepts and fundamental information.

Also, where on earth did you get the idea that terminus is actualy seeing izumo or her?

And where is the proof it doesnt exist? They have records of it from the relic set this is information they have access to inverse its up to you to prove that these are either inaccurate or not canon.

Let's refer to this. Again.

let me make it simple.

We have A, B and C. Removing the linkage between A and B gives =
A (no longer leads anywhere)
B (no longer has origin)
C (exists without traceable ancestry)

Aka she's not anchored to causal chain. Nor are the relics, in any case.

Again where id the proof??? The primium mobiles are about the paths ENERGY they arent deviating from their paths its just the paths can do similiar things this has nothing to do with primium mobiles. We dont know why IX hides this info but we know he has it and this kills aca type 2

IX doesn't hide info and you haven't provided any proof of it. We have direct scans that show it's just annihilation.

It's rly simple to connect these dots: 1) Acheron draws from nihility 2) nihility gives her the ability to destroy cause and effect 3) she was affected by the same power. Conclusion=her origin (her A and B) is gone.

Nothing about this is "hiding" information. IX for starters doesn't even give a shit. He is not even awake. He doesn't do anything. He is not hiding anything. Throughout the entire 3.8 questline, Nihility was used interchangably with Death.

And none of this has addresded the huge elephant that is her passive probability because that also proves shes temporally present across multiple timelines

You can get rid of her probability manipulation. Her not being in the script is proof that she is beyond precog and the likes. She doesn't have a future in the first place.

 

[Mbpoops]

The context you made up? The context is this which is what's been accepted for ages.

What context have i made up?

"Taking it too literally" when it's what the game straight up tells us is kinda crazy. We have a whole page of scans including one that says not even memories of Izumo remain despite whole other timelines being present in the form of memoria even if collapsed. What you are saying is not supported by anything.

Those statements of memories of izumo not existing could be purely hyperbolic again they have records of the place existing they are just confused on why it suddenly disappeared what im saying is supported by the information i provided in the OP

Also, where on earth did you get the idea that terminus is actualy seeing izumo or her?

Because hes constantly traveling to the past? What reason does he have to miss her out past is terminus’ future. Also lets take a look at Fuli, if acheron doesnt have a past how did Cyrene or Fuli revive her in the irontomb fight? Was she just excluded? Was she not brought back (we know that would be wrong from the anniversary notes) or did she tank irontomb’s Info nuke?

Let's refer to this. Again.

Go back and read zane and east statement’s reply because this is just causality manip NOT acausality

IX doesn't hide info and you haven't provided any proof of it. We have direct scans that show it's just annihilation.

IX isnt hiding the info he just doesnt speak. Hes the only one who knows what happened to it but in lore he just doesnt do anything because of the nature of nihility

It's rly simple to connect these dots: 1) Acheron draws from nihility 2) nihility gives her the ability to destroy cause and effect 3) she was affected by the same power. Conclusion=her origin (her A and B) is gone.

This. Is. Just. Causality. Manip. Nothing to do with her origin

Nothing about this is "hiding" information. IX for starters doesn't even give a shit. He is not even awake. He doesn't do anything. He is not hiding anything.

Hes withholding information from the cosmos not intentionally but because he embodies nihility. Doing anything even talking seems pointless to him because of the nature of nihility

You can get rid of her probability manipulation. Her not being in the script is proof that she is beyond precog and the likes. She doesn't have a future in the first place.

We cant get rid of it because its something every pathstrider has its a passive thing lol

 

[Mbpoops]

… This absolutely is not called Acasuality and just casuality manipulation, really.

To cut the relation that correspond between the cause and the effect is not called making things "acasual." It means the ability to cut through a relation.

As the VSBW also says



You stab someone (cause), they get injured (effect), but if the someone manipulates the cause-and-effect, it basically means they either make the effect never happens, or skipping the cause and jumping on effect (depending on whatever the verse wants to does it but anyway).



While Acasuality means something like not being bound by normal cause-and-effect rules. An acausal being may ignore fate or still exist after their own origin is erased (which is what is argued here).



So cutting through cause and effect here doesn't mean creating acasual paradoxes, you are confusing three different things entirely (casuality, acasuality, and paradox).

Cutting causality can lead to "paradoxical" situations, but it is not inherently "creating acausality" and "acausal paradox" is itself kind of nonsense terminology unless specifically defined by the verse to actually having some form of meaning.



There can be two simple examples for it:

Case 1 — Causality Manipulation

A sniper fires a bullet.

Character cuts causality.

Result:

Bullet leaves the gun but impact never occurs

This can be causality manipulation.


Case 2 — Acausality


However in case two, a god erases the sniper from history before he was born. But the sniper still exists and shoots anyway. Now the sniper is acting independently of causal history.

That’s acausality.


So "cutting cause-and-effect and creating acasual paradoxes" is mixing THREE different ideas that does not necessarily mean anything toward each other.

Severing cause and effect IS causality manip ok and??
Where does this prove type 2? Can you give a direct scan or statement to prove it's temporal? A scan that says her past being unknown means she can't be changed?
Burden of proof falls onto you.
Elios script or whatever means nothing
As we know that he doesn't give our full details.

Also you saying Well he destroyed it why wouldnt he know about it? It's an aeon...
Also means nothing, it goes against type 2, if he knows about the past then IX clearly knows about Acheron, so her being an nihility Emanator with unknown past doesn't add much if one knows about it
Not too mention, we have terminus who can literally go back in time,
Are you saying it's impossible for Terminus to see or know about her? If so then wheres that stated? I need to see proof of that if so.
Also.. Terminus kills Acausality 2, if going in time to rewind the verse or whatever. So there's nothing to prove why it wouldn't affect Acheron.

EDIT: and actually, we have ample amounts of proof for why Acheron is affected by the time rewind if anything

ill even bump them

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Those statements of memories of izumo not existing could be purely hyperbolic again they have records of the place existing they are just confused on why it suddenly disappeared what im saying is supported by the information i provided in the OP

There's no proof they are hyperbolic. We have multiplate instances of this sort of existence erasure being temporal.

Because hes constantly traveling to the past? What reason does he have to miss her out past is terminus’ future. Also lets take a look at Fuli, if acheron doesnt have a past how did Cyrene or Fuli revive her in the irontomb fight? Was she just excluded? Was she not brought back (we know that would be wrong from the anniversary notes) or did she tank irontomb’s Info nuke?

Wtf? What exactly is the correlation? She exists in the present ONLY. That's what acausality 2 is. Cyrene wouldn't even need to look into the past to find her. She pressed ctrl C + ctrl V in the PRESENT of that PRESENT MOMENT and saved information. Why would Acheron be obscured from that?

Go back and read zane and east statement’s reply because this is just causality manip NOT acausality

There's nothing to go back to. For some reason you are not understanding that I am not talking about what she does. I am talking about what was done to her. Izumo is A, her past is B and herself is C. A was erased. B was erased. C is currently being erased. C (Acheron) has no trace of origin because the causal chain is gone. Physically, spiritually etc. No memories no nothing.

Hes withholding information from the cosmos not intentionally but because he embodies nihility. Doing anything even talking seems pointless to him because of the nature of nihility

He's not withholding anything There's no reason to. You even agreed with Nova when we were talking about how IX is the antithesis of the Physical Space. Do you think IX is like shoving things up his holes for whatever reason?

 

[Mbpoops]

No seriously now that i think about it how did Fuli revive acheron if acheron doesnt have a past? Fuli uses the past to recreste the universe through memories but if acheron’s memories are deleted how can Fuli revive her?

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

We cant get rid of it because its something every pathstrider has its a passive thing lol

You can remove it. She has no future.

No seriously now that i think about it how did Fuli revive acheron if acheron doesnt have a past? Fuli uses the past to recreste the universe through memories but if acheron’s memories are deleted how can Fuli revive her?

................. I just told you how. Cyrene preserved the memories of the cosmos in the instant before everything was destroyed. Acheron was present in that moment. Cyrene didn't create the memories out of nothing. It's like she took a picture of it and then brought it into being after.

 

[Mbpoops]

There's no proof they are hyperbolic. We have multiplate instances of this sort of existence erasure being temporal.

The proof is in the OP

Wtf? What exactly is the correlation? She exists in the present ONLY. That's what acausality 2 is. Cyrene wouldn't even need to look into the past to find her. She pressed ctrl C + ctrl V in the PRESENT of that PRESENT MOMENT and saved information. Why would Acheron be obscured from that?

Fuli specifically records memories of the universe to bring back the universe the present would be after the universe ends because terminus still exists so that means the flow of time also still exists so how is Fuli reviving acheron through memories if her memories dont exist?

There's nothing to go back to. For some reason you are not understanding that I am not talking about what she does. I am talking about what was done to her. Izumo is A, her past is B and herself is C. A was erased. B was erased. C is currently being erased. C (Acheron) has no trace of origin because the causal chain is gone. Physically, spiritually etc. No memories no nothing.

Everything is explained in the messages i bumped

He's not withholding anything There's no reason to. You even agreed with Nova when we were talking about how IX is the antithesis of the Physical Space. Do you think IX is like shoving things up his holes for whatever reason?

What does IX being the opposite of reality have to do with him witholding information? He knows what happened to izumo but wont tell anyone that is withholding information

 

[Mbpoops]

You can remove it. She has no future.

Those 4 futures terminus saw she doesnt exist in is what you are saying

................. I just told you how. Cyrene preserved the memories of the cosmos in the instant before everything was destroyed. Acheron was present in that moment. Cyrene didn't create the memories out of nothing. It's like she took a picture of it and then brought it into being after.

Is there a scan for any of this?

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Fuli specifically records memories of the universe to bring back the universe the present would be after the universe ends because terminus still exists so that means the flow of time also still exists so how is Fuli reviving acheron through memories if her memories dont exist?

Why are you asking me how something would work in a hypothetical scenario we haven't seen? That's not what Cyrene even did.

Everything is explained in the messages i bumped

No it isn't Both are arguing that affecting cause/effect is caus manip for the user ignoring that I said this is the same power used on her. Which is "Case 2" in the first post u bumped.

What does IX being the opposite of reality have to do with him witholding information? He knows what happened to izumo but wont tell anyone that is withholding information

Why would he gaf about some bum ass random planet and why would he hide it

Is there a scan for any of this?

For starters, our eyes. Do you think she's randomly emoting here? 1. 2. 3.

 

[Mbpoops]

Why are you asking me how something would work in a hypothetical scenario we haven't seen? That's not what Cyrene even did.

I have seen no proof that cyrene did anything else

No it isn't Both are arguing that affecting cause/effect is caus manip for the user ignoring that I said this is the same power used on her. Which is "Case 2" in the first post u bumped.

You’re arguing that because her blade can sever cause and effect shes causing a paradox and erasing her own past even though that implies shes slashing herself… now why would she slash herself?

Why would he gaf about some bum ass random planet and why would he hide it

why does this matter at all? He can withhold information about anything he wants

For starters, our eyes. Do you think she's randomly emoting here? 1. 2. 3.

None of these say cyrene got the instant when the universe was destroyed. The first video id extremely vague, it could be her teleporting the tb and her to path space, her protecting the tb (i think this is used for something on her profile id have to check), efcetc it could be anything.

1. Is talking about amphoreus NOT the cosmos
“Carrying all the worlds memeories back to reality. Amphoreus isnt apart of reality its currently a book and previously a line of code simulated by destruction it wasnt considered part of reality

2. It just says cyrene protected the cosmos’ memories.. ok..? This is extremely vague but what we know about memeories is that memories are the past and you are arguing acheron doesnt have a past and thus no memories meaning acheron should be dead.

3. Literslly kills your argument because shes trying to protect the memories of the cosmos by touching the memory fragements. Memories are the past and acheron, by your arguments, doesnt memories or a past so she should be dead.

 

[Mbpoops]

My phone gonna die so ill wait for staff

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

I have seen no proof that cyrene did anything else

Whatever.

You’re arguing that because her blade can sever cause and effect shes causing a paradox and erasing her own past even though that implies shes slashing herself… now why would she slash herself?

Genuinely are you doing this on purpose? I said this 10 times already. The power she uses on others is the same one IX's shadow used on Izumo. It destroyed Izumo and her past leaving her with no origin and a broken chain of causality.

None of these say cyrene got the instant when the universe was destroyed. The first video id extremely vague, it could be her teleporting the tb and her to path space, her protecting the tb (i think this is used for something on her profile id have to check), efcetc it could be anything.

“Cyrene returned to the moment when Irontomb destroyed the world, and created An Eternal Page.”

But this could mean anything!!

3. Literslly kills your argument because shes trying to protect the memories of the cosmos by touching the memory fragements. Memories are the past and acheron, by your arguments, doesnt memories or a past so she should be dead.

Not really. She saved the memories before everything was blown up and went backwards to restore it. Acheron was present in the cosmos when Cyrene preserved the data at this moment. This does not kill my argument in any case. Lol.

 

[Mbpoops]

Whatever.

Genuinely are you doing this on purpose? I said this 10 times already. The power she uses on others is the same one IX's shadow used on Izumo. It destroyed Izumo and her past leaving her with no origin and a broken chain of causality.

When has acheron deleted someone’s past? If you send the scans before can you send again

But this could mean anything!!

1. Thats not in the part you linked

2. It says she returned to the moment when irontomb nuked the universe, so she time traveled..?

Not really. She saved the memories before everything was blown up and went backwards to restore it. Acheron was present in the cosmos when Cyrene preserved the data at this moment. This does not kill my argument in any case. Lol.

None of this was stated in the link you sent

 

[Mbpoops]

Im gonna wait for staff now cause now we're just arguing abt cyrene time travel and i dont want the thread to get too long

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

When has acheron deleted someone’s past? If you send the scans before can you send again

.. Why would she need to? We are exclusively told she can do it. The point is, this is the power of nihility and what happened to her past. Your random headcanon that nihility is actually hiding things randomly makes no sense and is unsupported.

 

[Mbpoops]

.. Why would she need to? We are exclusively told she can do it. The point is, this is the power of nihility and what happened to her past. Your random headcanon that nihility is actually hiding things randomly makes no sense and is unsupported.

So theres no scans gotcha

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

So theres no scans gotcha

Lol. You were shown scans that she can sever cause/effect. You should catch those

 

[Mbpoops]

Lol. You were shown scans that she can sever cause/effect. You should catch those

When has acheron deleted someone’s past? If you send the scans before can you send again

you clearly arent reading the replies in the thread so theres no point in me replying

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

you clearly arent reading the replies in the thread so theres no point in me replying

here n here

 

[Mbpoops]

here n here

This is just existence erasure or causality manip not acausality

 

[Mbpoops]

Both of those scans are in the justification for existence erasure and causality manip.

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

here n here

Some nice Casuality manipulation!
Casuality manipulation: The user can redirect any cause to any effect, undo anything by inverting the relation cause/effect, or even separate them entirely, making a specific effect impossible to be caused or a specific cause not producing any effect
What you shown fits the description, very blatant Casuality manipulation
Nothing temporal about what you've shown in the scans.
As they didn't exist doesn't seem to mentioning Acheron at all. Even if so, it's vague
Your scans are going against you.
Casuality manipulation + EE
the enemy is vanquished from this plane of existence
So she erased the enemy from existence? Very blatant! Once more nothing temporal.

 

[Mbpoops]

Some nice Casuality manipulation!
Casuality manipulation: The user can redirect any cause to any effect, undo anything by inverting the relation cause/effect, or even separate them entirely, making a specific effect impossible to be caused or a specific cause not producing any effect
What you shown fits the description, very blatant Casuality manipulation
Nothing temporal about what you've shown in the scans.
As they didn't exist doesn't seem to mentioning Acheron at all. Even if so, it's vague
Your scans are going against you.
Casuality manipulation + EE
the enemy is vanquished from this plane of existence
So she erased the enemy from existence? Very blatant! Once more nothing temporal.

If you look at her page those scans are literally used to justify her ee and causality manip lol

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

If you look at her page those scans are literally used to justify her ee and causality manip lol

Truee

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

This is just existence erasure or causality manip not acausality

poops please. can you read anything i am saying at all fr?

this power stems from NIHILITY. thus naturally, nihility can do that. this NIHILITY hit her home planet and HER severing HER and her PLANET'S existence, identity and CAUSE. they don't exist in history. remembrance doesn't have records of their past either. izumo and she were erased genshin impact irminsul style. they're effectively removed from the universe’s history, records, and causal structure. THERE IS NO CONTINUITY. her origin was erased from HISTORY. acheron remaining when she should have disappeared too since the past is GONE means she is ACAUSAL. like even if scara was erased, he can still do shit in the present world. it's literally the same thing. idk why you cant understand it. its so simple.

idk what ur smoking and what sort of mumbo jumbo you are saying about ix hiding worlds and information when that's never been brought up, discussed or implied in any manner. you just press your belly button and come up with the weirdest things. theres no records of this nor scans. ur also writing fanfics in this thread talking about imaginary scenarios that don't happen in the story.

im done w this

 

[Hecky2222]

This was out yesterday and now it is 66 replies. Can I get TLDR and Summary of both sides

 

[Voidnether]

This was out yesterday and now it is 66 replies. Can I get TLDR and Summary of both sides

Scoops was on some crack on how Acheron's past existing is a disqualifier despite Acheron having a past was before she became an Emanator of Nihility, IX erased her past after she became one. Elio which was able to precog infinite possibilities doesn't have Acheron on the script due to how Nihility works, it's similar to Silver Wolf being able to interfere with the script due to Elation shit. I don't know why tf an infinite amount of Acheron existing across infinite timelines in which said Acheron only exist in the present btw like all of them, none of these Acheron exist in the past nor the future = It being a disqualifier for Acausality type 2, like there's a ******* good reason why Elio WOULD NOT be able to send in future Acheron to fight like the present Acheron like his ass did with Silver Wolf, unironically Acheron's future not existing in Elio's script is consistent with how said Path functions and that everyone in Penacony including the Stellaron Hunters is wary of Acheron because of that

 

[Mbpoops]

Scoops was on some crack on how Acheron's past existing is a disqualifier despite Acheron having a past was before she became an Emanator of Nihility, IX erased her past after she became one. Elio which was able to precog infinite possibilities doesn't have Acheron on the script due to how Nihility works, it's similar to Silver Wolf being able to interfere with the script due to Elation shit. I don't know why tf an infinite amount of Acheron existing across infinite timelines in which said Acheron only exist in the present btw like all of them, none of these Acheron exist in the past nor the future = It being a disqualifier for Acausality type 2, like there's a ******* good reason why Elio WOULD NOT be able to send in future Acheron to fight like the present Acheron like his ass did with Silver Wolf, unironically Acheron's future not existing in Elio's script is consistent with how said Path functions and that everyone in Penacony including the Stellaron Hunters is wary of Acheron because of that

Negative tracking of despair

 

[Mbpoops]

Scoops was on some crack on how Acheron's past existing is a disqualifier despite Acheron having a past was before she became an Emanator of Nihility, IX

Are there any scans that prove she lost her past and future after becoming an emanator?

erased her past after she became one.

This still isnt aca type 2 you could possibly wank type 1 but type 2 is a nono

Elio which was able to precog infinite possibilities doesn't have Acheron on the script due to how Nihility works

Already tackled this in the op but if you’re saying “this is how nihility works” this is just wrong because he can predict zephyro who is also a self annihilator of nihility

, it's similar to Silver Wolf being able to interfere with the script due to Elation shit

No correlation

. I don't know why tf an infinite amount of Acheron existing across infinite timelines in which said Acheron only exist in the present btw like all of them, none of these Acheron exist in the past nor the future = It being a disqualifier for Acausality type 2,

Because its used for literally every profile so every character would have type 2, not to mention it proves shes temporally present, she has possibilities aka futures

like there's a ******* good reason why Elio WOULD NOT be able to send in future Acheron to fight like the present Acheron like

What the hell are you talking about??????????????????????????????????? You know acheron isnt a stellaron hunter right? Why would he do this for acheron??

his ass did with Silver Wolf, unironically Acheron's future not existing in Elio's script is consistent with how said Path functions and that everyone in Penacony including the Stellaron Hunters is wary of Acheron because of that

This is already address in the op and this message.

 

[Mbpoops]

my last comment to support the idea she has a past and future.

Her path leads her to a new tomorrow this wouldnt be possible if nihility deletes your past and future. Nihility deleting your past and future is also contradicted by zephyro being predicted by elio in another future, zephyro being a self annihilator of nihility, something we currently accept on the wiki. This point is also tackled in the OP with no real contention.

Acheron treads trails of the past and even remembers her past proving her past still exists.

Some might say this is acausality type 2 but that would be ignoring the context of the statement. She is not talking about her being having no past present or future, rather her reason for drawing her blade remains the same regardless of the point in time.

Speaking of her blade, everytime she uses it the memories of using it, from the point of it's origin, return to her. This proves that nihility didnt destroy her past but rather obscured them (as ive been arguing)

Others also remember acheron's deeds, which is something acheron herself even says will happen, proving that she is temporally present in the past. others remembering things she has done shouldnt be possible if her past is supposedly deleted by the nihility. The entire plot of 3.8 happens within our memories and acheron is present there which shouldnt be possible if Nihility supposedly deletes her past as the opposition has been saying. Not to mention that if Nihility deletes her past none of these scenes should have happened or be remembered by other characters, yet they are. Maybe because her past still exists and is just obscured by nihility. Last but not least, we're able to have a false memories with acheron in them the plot of 3.8 is recalling our true memories that were sealed away by the dahlia, everything from this part to sunday's loss is in lore a fake memory created by the dahlia to hide the truth so we wont die in amphoreus. How can we have fake memories of someone who is supposedly deleted at that point in time? How can someone create fake memories of someone who doesnt exist in the past or future?

also just to point out, but erasing history isnt proof of acausality type 2, thats just existence erasure. for acausality type 2 you need proof she isn't temporally present in the future or past, which there hasnt been any proof of in this thread from the opposition

Type 2: Temporal Singularity: Characters with this type of Acausality do not exist in either the past or the future, only the present. This means they cannot be affected by changes to the past, while also making them resistant to Precognition that works by viewing the future, as they do not exist within it, and Fate Manipulation, for the same reason. In essence, they are able to choose their own fates, but they remain just as vulnerable at the point in time in which they do exist.

Existence Erasure is the simple power to remove something from existence, leaving nothing behind, a level of destruction beyond incineration, vaporization, and atomization. Rather than just reducing something to its constituent parts, this ability leaves absolutely nothing behind. Powerful enough uses of this ability can even erase the mind and soul, if not more fundamental aspects of one's existence, such as concepts.

These, and the OP, should be evidence enough she still has a past even after becoming an emanator. there is no proof that she became acasual after becoming an emanator until i see scans proving that its pure headcanon. everything else is addressed in the OP

i will now wait for staff

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Her path leads her to a new tomorrow this wouldnt be possible if nihility deletes your past and future. Nihility deleting your past and future is also contradicted by zephyro being predicted by elio in another future, zephyro being a self annihilator of nihility, something we currently accept on the wiki. This point is also tackled in the OP with no real contention.

For starters, that's before Izumo was attacked. secondly, not all self-annihilators are emanators of nihility. zephyro isn't. his past was also not erased as far as we know.

You're either lying to support your arguments or misreading everything.

Acheron treads trails of the past

she's not talking about herself here. she says it herself that she has no past

even remembers her past proving her past still exists.

If you leave your world and enters another timeline. After you leave, the original timeline gets erased or rewritten completely. Normally, if the past that created you disappears you should disappear too or at least your memories should change with it. But that doesn’t happen here. Acheron still remembers the old history exactly as it was, even though that version of it no longer exists anymore. Her own past stays intact in her memory and identity, while the world around them has moved onto a different history. So they end up existing as proof of a reality that technically no longer exists. This is what is called a temporal paradox. Aka acausality 2 because changes to the past don't affect her as she doesn't exist in it no longer.

And don't bring up that Terminus bullshit. The timeline continues forward normally. At one point, the original world (Izumo and everything tied to it) is gone, like a section of history that no longer exists. After that point, time doesn’t stop or keep getting erased. it just keeps going. Acheron exists in that continuing flow of time after the collapse. She still exists in the ongoing timeline since that event has now passed. The present, after that event, leaves a "past" and moves forward. She is part of what happens AFTER that event, not part of the destroyed past.

Scaramouche remembers his past. Yet it's still gone and he can interact with the present. Doesn't prove nothing. unless you wanna go fight the genshiners and remove his acausality and the descenders' too.

Some might say this is acausality type 2 but that would be ignoring the context of the statement. She is not talking about her being having no past present or future, rather her reason for drawing her blade remains the same regardless of the point in time.

Nobody used this to claim anything.

Speaking of her blade, everytime she uses it the memories of using it, from the point of it's origin, return to her. This proves that nihility didnt destroy her past but rather obscured them (as ive been arguing)

yes the blade has a past that no longer exists. it has no traceable origin in history or time making it also a paradox. nihility does not obscure. it annihilates. it's not enigmata.

Others also remember acheron's deeds, which is something acheron herself even says will happen, proving that she is temporally present in the past. others remembering things she has done shouldnt be possible if her past is supposedly deleted by the nihility. The entire plot of 3.8 happens within our memories and acheron is present there which shouldnt be possible if Nihility supposedly deletes her past as the opposition has been saying. Not to mention that if Nihility deletes her past none of these scenes should have happened or be remembered by other characters, yet they are. Maybe because her past still exists and is just obscured by nihility.

nobody said Nihility is constantly retroactively erasing Acheron’s past every second she exists. The point is that the world/history she originated from was consumed by Nihility when she became an Emanator destroying the causal continuity of her existence. Other people remembering Acheron’s actions does not disprove this in any case. Why would Acheron not be capable of interacting with the present timeline and leave observable effects? Nobody argued she became nonexistent or incapable of causally interacting with reality.

You’re also conflating “her current actions being remembered” with “the original worldline/history tied to her still fully existing normally.” Those are not the same thing.

The entire point is that she survives after the destruction/consumption of the history and future connected to her world. She carries memories and continuity from something swallowed by Nihility. That's not antithetical to an acausal existence.

The 3.8 memory segments happen after Acheron already became an Emanator and after the events involving Izumo/Takamagahara were consumed by Nihility. So using scenes from 3.8 to “prove her past still exists normally” makes no sense because those scenes are taking place after all of that already happened. It literally makes no sense.

Only her origin point is gone, not her ongoing existence. The past that produced her was erased, but the “now” continues with her still inside it. Stop acting obtuse.

U just GENUINELY do not understand what Acausality means.

also just to point out, but erasing history isnt proof of acausality type 2, thats just existence erasure. for acausality type 2 you need proof she isn't temporally present in the future or past, which there hasnt been any proof of in this thread from the opposition

There's been plenty of proof. You just think you waved it away by saying "Nuhuh". The proof is that nihility erased Izumo from the timeline. And she now has no past, as presented multiple times in the scans. As for her future, she doesn't have one either. Big emphasis on the "I".

These, and the OP, should be evidence enough she still has a past even after becoming an emanator. there is no proof that she became acasual after becoming an emanator until i see scans proving that its pure headcanon. everything else is addressed in the OP

Not at all. You made up a whole theory on the spot that IX wants to "hide" things.

IX isn’t described as “hiding” anything or selectively putting a veil on anythng. The consistent depiction is the opposite: a passive cosmic principle tied to nothingness, not an entity performing targeted actions or maintaining some agenda. It's a void. It does nothing. It's apathetic.

So the idea of “it is actively erasing but also hiding the erasure” isn’t stated anywhere. Nothing supports intention, planning, or selective concealment. The ONLY consistent idea is that things associated with Nihility are annihilated and with no traces left of them. Not even meaning.

Again, Nihility as a Path is not Enigmata. it’s not about deception or rewriting information. It’s about dissolution.

Btw nuking her Acausality 2 means you are also arguing for this entire thing attributed to IX to be nuked as well. Do I even have to say that this is your worst CRT so far?

• Passive Void Manipulation, Existence Erasure (Space-Time, History, Memory, Information【Type 2】& Conceptual【Type 3】) & Causality Manipulation

 

[Doggo]

Ngl, I got a few gripes with the Elio thing

Like, Acheron was clearly asking Firefly if she appeared in the script, and Firefly said no. If it's Elio just not telling Firefly about Acheron, she would have said "Idk." Instead, Firefly just said Acheron never appeared in the script.

No comment on past and probability thing tho

 

[Mbpoops]

Ngl, I got a few gripes with the Elio thing

Like, Acheron was clearly asking Firefly if she appeared in the script, and Firefly said no. If it's Elio just not telling Firefly about Acheron, she would have said "Idk." Instead, Firefly just said Acheron never appeared in the script.

No comment on past and probability thing tho

Acheron is asking firefly if she appears in HER script meaning the script elio gave her and we know elio never gives the full script so its literally just elio not giving any information about acheron to firefly

 

[Mbpoops]

For starters, that's before Izumo was attacked. secondly, not all self-annihilators are emanators of nihility. zephyro isn't. his past was also not erased as far as we know.

You're either lying to support your arguments or misreading everything.

the arguments have been about nihility deleting the past and there is still no statement provided that her becoming an emanator deletes her past.

she's not talking about herself here. she says it herself that she has no past

sonion ring

also the ss you sent is tackled in the OP

If you leave your world and enters another timeline. After you leave, the original timeline gets erased or rewritten completely. Normally, if the past that created you disappears you should disappear too or at least your memories should change with it. But that doesn’t happen here. Acheron still remembers the old history exactly as it was, even though that version of it no longer exists anymore. Her own past stays intact in her memory and identity, while the world around them has moved onto a different history. So they end up existing as proof of a reality that technically no longer exists. This is what is called a temporal paradox. Aka acausality 2 because changes to the past don't affect her as she doesn't exist in it no longer.

when does acheron... yk... go to anothing timeline????????????????????????????????????????????????? acheron never leaves the timeline what are you talking about also thats NOT ACAUSALITY TYPE 2 ITS SPECIFICALLY TYPE 1

Type 1: Time Paradox Immunity: Characters with this type of Acausality are rendered immune to changes in the past and standard temporal paradoxes, but remain just as vulnerable in the present and can be affected by normal Causality Manipulation and similar abilities.

Note that only characters explicitly depicted as immune to time paradoxes in their past by feats and/or direct statements qualify for this power. Fiction commonly features time travel systems where time-travelers, for no explainable reason, retain their memories of previous timelines even after changing the past, and merely existing in a work with such mechanics doesn't mean the character inherently has such an immunity, especially given how they would still be affected if someone else was time-traveling instead.

And don't bring up that Terminus bullshit. The timeline continues forward normally. At one point, the original world (Izumo and everything tied to it) is gone, like a section of history that no longer exists. After that point, time doesn’t stop or keep getting erased. it just keeps going. Acheron exists in that continuing flow of time after the collapse. She still exists in the ongoing timeline since that event has now passed. The present, after that event, leaves a "past" and moves forward. She is part of what happens AFTER that event, not part of the destroyed past.

you do realise you just nuked aca type 2 right. also this assumes izumo has a different flow of time than the universe which is wrong on so many levels.

Scaramouche remembers his past. Yet it's still gone and he can interact with the present. Doesn't prove nothing. unless you wanna go fight the genshiners and remove his acausality and the descenders' too.

this isnt about genshin i dont scale genshin so i dont care what scaramouche has. stay on topic.

Nobody used this to claim anything.

good

yes the blade has a past that no longer exists.

any proof of this?

it has no traceable origin in history or time making it also a paradox.

any proof of this?

nihility does not obscure. it annihilates. it's not enigmata.

addressed in the thread already

nobody said Nihility is constantly retroactively erasing Acheron’s past every second she exists. The point is that the world/history she originated from was consumed by Nihility when she became an Emanator destroying the causal continuity of her existence. Other people remembering Acheron’s actions does not disprove this in any case. Why would Acheron not be capable of interacting with the present timeline and leave observable effects? Nobody argued she became nonexistent or incapable of causally interacting with reality.

so does nihility erase her past or not? because you're saying she has a past after she became an emanator. people remembering her actions means that those moments in history still exist and thus her past still exists meaning she has no acausal existence

You’re also conflating “her current actions being remembered” with “the original worldline/history tied to her still fully existing normally.” Those are not the same thing

what are you even talking about time flows in the same direction it just branches. you're insinuating someone went back in time and changes history, history that acheron is apart of, and thus she isnt acasual.

.

The entire point is that she survives after the destruction/consumption of the history and future connected to her world. She carries memories and continuity from something swallowed by Nihility. That's not antithetical to an acausal existence.

so she survived the destruction of her planet... i agree? its just hoyo using flowery language again

The 3.8 memory segments happen after Acheron already became an Emanator and after the events involving Izumo/Takamagahara were consumed by Nihility. So using scenes from 3.8 to “prove her past still exists normally” makes no sense because those scenes are taking place after all of that already happened. It literally makes no sense.

so she still has a past? lol 3.8 clearly shows she exists in the past since we are seeing her in the past if she didnt have a past we wouldnt see her

Only her origin point is gone, not her ongoing existence.

so she has a future

The past that produced her was erased,

this has been refuted multiple times in the crt

but the “now” continues with her still inside it. Stop acting obtuse.

like i said above

U just GENUINELY do not understand what Acausality means.

you tried to posit casuality manip as acauasality type 2

There's been plenty of proof. You just think you waved it away by saying "Nuhuh". The proof is that nihility erased Izumo from the timeline. And she now has no past, as presented multiple times in the scans. As for her future, she doesn't have one either. Big emphasis on the "I".

all of these scans. have. been. refuted.

Not at all. You made up a whole theory on the spot that IX wants to "hide" things.

i never said IX wants to hide things he just see no point in sharing it because he deems it as meaningless, he is the embodiment of nihility and thus finds everything meaningless

Nihility is a noun that means "nothingness" or the state of nonexistence. Derived from the Latin root nihil (nothing), it refers to utter insignificance, a state of amounting to nothing, or voidness

The path presided over by the Aeon IX.
Slothful, exhausted, and meaningless actions are manifestations of the Path of Nihility.

IX isn’t described as “hiding” anything or selectively putting a veil on anythng. The consistent depiction is the opposite: a passive cosmic principle tied to nothingness, not an entity performing targeted actions or maintaining some agenda. It's a void. It does nothing. It's apathetic.

as i said above

So the idea of “it is actively erasing but also hiding the erasure” isn’t stated anywhere. Nothing supports intention, planning, or selective concealment. The ONLY consistent idea is that things associated with Nihility are annihilated and with no traces left of them. Not even meaning.

all of this is just existence erasure

Again, Nihility as a Path is not Enigmata. it’s not about deception or rewriting information. It’s about dissolution.

addressed

Btw nuking her Acausality 2 means you are also arguing for this entire thing attributed to IX to be nuked as well. Do I even have to say that this is your worst CRT so far?

none of this has anything to do with aca type 2 we've already explained how its causality and EE

 

[Mbpoops]

im tired of repeating myself over and over and over and over

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

the arguments have been about nihility deleting the past and there is still no statement provided that her becoming an emanator deletes her past.

It's not emanator-ship that automatically dissolves the past. Probably. It's the destruction of Izumo that did it.

sonion ring

What does this prove exactly? She is literally using third person.

when does acheron... yk... go to anothing timeline????????????????????????????????????????????????? acheron never leaves the timeline what are you talking about also thats NOT ACAUSALITY TYPE 2 ITS SPECIFICALLY TYPE 1

She does not it's an example to show how paradoxes work and what happened to her except a part of the timeline was destroyed. Read it again.

this isnt about genshin i dont scale genshin so i dont care what scaramouche has. stay on topic.

It's called precedent and wiki standards.

any proof of this?

Yes. Anything coming from Izumo, such as her and the blade, have no past as it was erased from the timeline severing causal chain between origin and existence.

addressed in the thread already

No it wasn't.

so does nihility erase her past or not? because you're saying she has a past after she became an emanator. people remembering her actions means that those moments in history still exist and thus her past still exists meaning she has no acausal existence

you do realise you just nuked aca type 2 right. also this assumes izumo has a different flow of time than the universe which is wrong on so many levels.

what are you even talking about time flows in the same direction it just branches. you're insinuating someone went back in time and changes history, history that acheron is apart of, and thus she isnt acasual.

so she still has a past? lol 3.8 clearly shows she exists in the past since we are seeing her in the past if she didnt have a past we wouldnt see her

so she has a future

nobody said Nihility is constantly retroactively erasing Acheron’s past every second she exists. The point is that the world/history she originated from was consumed by Nihility when she became an Emanator destroying the causal continuity of her existence. Other people remembering Acheron’s actions does not disprove this in any case. Why would Acheron not be capable of interacting with the present timeline and leave observable effects? Nobody argued she became nonexistent or incapable of causally interacting with reality.

You’re also conflating “her current actions being remembered” with “the original worldline/history tied to her still fully existing normally.” Those are not the same thing.

The entire point is that she survives after the destruction/consumption of the history and future connected to her world. She carries memories and continuity from something swallowed by Nihility. That's not antithetical to an acausal existence.

The 3.8 memory segments happen after Acheron already became an Emanator and after the events involving Izumo/Takamagahara were consumed by Nihility. So using scenes from 3.8 to “prove her past still exists normally” makes no sense because those scenes are taking place after all of that already happened. It literally makes no sense.

Only her origin point is gone, not her ongoing existence. The past that produced her was erased, but the “now” continues with her still inside it. Stop acting obtuse.

this has been refuted multiple times in the crt

No you didn't refute anything.

as i said above

Nothing of what you said has a conclusion. You are just saying random things.

all of this is just existence erasure

No because it says it's removed from the remembrance.

There is no existence more all-embracing than the Remembrance in its purest form: It chronicles everything with neither affinity nor aversion. It unselfishly preserves every single fundamental fact and every single resplendent form. It is a river formed by the continuous flow of life, and a treasure built from the eternal wisdom of antiquity.
And Fuli is the fish that swims back upstream in this river, the very key to this treasure vault. Seated in meditation at the heart of the Pure Land, THEY observe in silence the world's tireless repetitions of the same mistakes over and over again. It is said that, after all returns to the silence at the end, Fuli will use the memory of the universe as a blueprint to reanimate all the worlds once again.

If it doesn't exist within Remembrance, it has no history of existing.

none of this has anything to do with aca type 2 we've already explained how its causality and EE

Yes it does. If someone manipulates causality, the one whose causality has been manipulated in this manner such as hers, becomes acausal.

Just ask someone to explain acausality to you. You can even use chatgpt or smth.

 

[Hecky2222]

This was out yesterday and now it is 66 replies. Can I get TLDR and Summary of both sides

You guys going over cycles, it would be better to make better summary from both sides and wait staff. Otherwise it wont go anywhere and go 10+ pages

But from what I read: You guys arguing Past erasing, past not existing. May I ask how this is Ac2? If thats valid(Considering i didnt read arguments fully) it would be Ac1 rather than Ac2

Ac2 is lacking both past and future while existing in single present.

 

[Mbpoops]

my last comment to support the idea she has a past and future.

Her path leads her to a new tomorrow this wouldnt be possible if nihility deletes your past and future. Nihility deleting your past and future is also contradicted by zephyro being predicted by elio in another future, zephyro being a self annihilator of nihility, something we currently accept on the wiki. This point is also tackled in the OP with no real contention.

Acheron treads trails of the past and even remembers her past proving her past still exists.

Some might say this is acausality type 2 but that would be ignoring the context of the statement. She is not talking about her being having no past present or future, rather her reason for drawing her blade remains the same regardless of the point in time.

Speaking of her blade, everytime she uses it the memories of using it, from the point of it's origin, return to her. This proves that nihility didnt destroy her past but rather obscured them (as ive been arguing)

Others also remember acheron's deeds, which is something acheron herself even says will happen, proving that she is temporally present in the past. others remembering things she has done shouldnt be possible if her past is supposedly deleted by the nihility. The entire plot of 3.8 happens within our memories and acheron is present there which shouldnt be possible if Nihility supposedly deletes her past as the opposition has been saying. Not to mention that if Nihility deletes her past none of these scenes should have happened or be remembered by other characters, yet they are. Maybe because her past still exists and is just obscured by nihility. Last but not least, we're able to have a false memories with acheron in them the plot of 3.8 is recalling our true memories that were sealed away by the dahlia, everything from this part to sunday's loss is in lore a fake memory created by the dahlia to hide the truth so we wont die in amphoreus. How can we have fake memories of someone who is supposedly deleted at that point in time? How can someone create fake memories of someone who doesnt exist in the past or future?

also just to point out, but erasing history isnt proof of acausality type 2, thats just existence erasure. for acausality type 2 you need proof she isn't temporally present in the future or past, which there hasnt been any proof of in this thread from the opposition





These, and the OP, should be evidence enough she still has a past even after becoming an emanator. there is no proof that she became acasual after becoming an emanator until i see scans proving that its pure headcanon. everything else is addressed in the OP

i will now wait for staff

my summary is here none of this has been refuted

 

[Mbpoops]

But from what I read: You guys arguing Past erasing, past not existing. May I ask how this is Ac2? If thats valid(Considering i didnt read arguments fully) it would be Ac1 rather than Ac2

btw just to clarify, changes to the past not affecting the future is already accepted as MWI in the verse so this wouldnt even grant aca type 1