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This is a whataboutism. If you don't have any solid argument beyond "well it went this well for another verse", then you may as well shelve the issue entirely.They were successfully used and accepted in the past though
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The Amazing Downgraded Circus (TADC Downgrades)
- Thread starter TheOrangeGuy09
- Start date
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Okay and? Just because those got accepted doesn't mean this one will for the same reasons. This is peak whataboutism.They were successfully used and accepted in the past though
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This is getting ridiculous. I'm tagging staff.
@LephyrTheRevanchist @Just a Random Butler @DarkDragonMedeus @Maverick_Zero_X @Qawsedf234
@Theglassman12 @Reiner04 @KingTempest @UchihaSlayer96 @Emirp sumitpo @Dalesean027 @Random-Helper323
@LephyrTheRevanchist @Just a Random Butler @DarkDragonMedeus @Maverick_Zero_X @Qawsedf234
@Theglassman12 @Reiner04 @KingTempest @UchihaSlayer96 @Emirp sumitpo @Dalesean027 @Random-Helper323
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I am planning on watching this series soon. Until I have, I can't comment on this thread.
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- Thread starter
- #165
Not really, we need to be consistent on the wiki. You can’t accept exact same arguments for one verse and not for the other. Whataboutism would be if I said that another wiki accepts it or the reasons would be different.
It’s like arresting one person for 3 years but another person for 30 years for exact same crime in the sane country. The person imprisoned for 30 years can use this “whataboutism” to shorten his sentence. This would be only fair.
Mythic381
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Ignoring the invalid use of whataboutism, what exactly makes the cases different here? These are examples of two verses who have anti-feats based on real life issues. We're suddenly not consistent with verses?
That's not a justification? A lot of verses get downgraded based on issues that were accepted for other verses. Don't see how "double standards" apply here.
I also don't get why everyone is coming off so aggressive.
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I'll need a TLDR summary first, though I did at least see a few comments. And so far Psychomaster's points look reasonable.
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I think it's the verses themselves, since TADC takes place in a simulation where Cain rules everything and makes sure that everything that happens to the characters does in the way he wants, so if he wants the weapons to hurt them, they do, same for fall damage. I don't think it's the same as Hazbin Hotel
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We are consistent within our standards, which is why we can absolutely do that because no two verses have the exact same situations and context. One can compare them or use them as a reference of course, but we are in no way obligated to accept a downgrade or upgrade because another verse went through the same. Maybe the latter changes were incorrect. Maybe the evidence was in greater supply or better supported. Either way, a CRT is primarily judged on its own merits.
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Not all verses are the same nor do they operate the same, their contexts and situations can vary wildly. In light of that this is an incredibly poor argument to make that just doesn't hold up.
Also what Planck said.
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 13,790
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I mean Hazbin went from 5-B --> 9-A
While this one's trying to 9-A --> 9-C
Seems like TADC also got more than one 9-A feat while Hazbin only had vague downscaling from the super duper God Tier of the verse
Mythic381
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You don't even argue against the case, which is literally what I asked for:
There's only two 9-A feats.
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 13,790
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Ye, more than one.
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- Thread starter
- #174
The second one is done by abstracted Kaufmo who ragdolled Ragatha to the point it’s not even funny. He clearly stomps the cast and there’s a reason everyone is afraid of him and only have hopes by calling for Caine. Besides, currently gap is treated big enough to justify full 8-C rating, meaning we already acknowledge his massive superiority. Also, his 9-A calc is lower than Pomni’s 9-A+ calc, further adding to inconsistency.
Randomuser3412
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I mean... he didn't really physically damage her other than his passive Corruption, which isn't related to his AP... ragdolling someone doesn't mean you're inconceivably stronger or anything
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- Thread starter
- #176
Randomuser3412
He/Him- 1,099
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Like... maybe? That right there is entirely a Lifting Strength difference and Loki didn't even seem too hurt by that. Kaufmo has passive Corruption hax, which is what actually hurt Ragatha there. Her body appeared completely undamaged and the Gloink Queen took dozens of hits from Kaufmo. He's really not that strong.
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Gangle tanked a point-blank dynamite explosion in episode 5.
That is, we have 3 feats 9A.
That is, we have 3 feats 9A.
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Maybe that verse was also downgraded for the wrong reasons. Maybe Hazbin needs another look taken at.
Guns and fall damage in general are very, very inconsistent throughout fiction. Unless it's a verse consisting of normal athlete level humans (Which neither of them are, being very much based in the supernatural and fantasy genre), it's almost always the case of just writers wanking it.
So unless you have better reasons than that, I can't accept this thread for what it is in good conscience.
This is an even stupider reason to downgrade. Multiple verses on this wiki live and die by singular feats. Why? Because they have context and justifications that allow them to.
Consistency by numbers alone isn't consistency, it's frequency, it's not the end-all, be-all. It's consistency with context that matters.
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Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 13,790
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I mean even non-powerscalers would raise their eyebrows if say, Omni-Man was taken out by a regular handgun or a 50m fall.
Like Tier 9-8 fall into the Tiers where the writers simply don't know just how much energy the characters are outputting besides it just being "Superhuman."
Once you get to Tier 7+ (A.k.a rivalling nukes) there's no excuse really.
Fall damage was also included in the anti-feat collection that dropped the Mario cast from Tier 4.
DarkLock92
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Eden_Warlock99
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Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 13,790
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Marvel and DC have dozens of writers, each with their own take on how strong a character is. Think one of them even outright said Thor can’t bust a planet, it's kinda expected. That’s also why, even if Superman might have a couple of 1-A feats, it doesn't mean he'd be listed as 1-A, even thought in any other verse he would.
Unless you're Robert Kirkman, it’s hard to take it seriously when Mr. Universe buster who eats universes gets taken out after a car crashes into him.
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And even then we don't take authors over the source material. That doesn't change my point about guns and fall damage being just a gaff most of the time.
Also, if the whole "no interaction" rule didn't exist, depending on the context behind the 1-A feats, Supes would absolutely be listed as 1-A one way or another LMAO.
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all of this over downgrading 9-As from things that 9-As are allowed to be weak to even if they were High 8-C, falling and bullets, wow, what a waste of time
Breadbear83
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Ok the 10C downgrade and 9A+ as outlier to the antifeats are disagreed by pretty much everyone, maybe go for the talk of 7B Caine nuke
Even if the statements about he being God would be by he glazing himself by making his creations say that, they are still his creations, if god made humanity make constant statements glazing him like "god, our creator, is the strongest of them all" even if god is making them say that, just being hidden self glazing, he's still our creator, by definition, by the scaling of we being his mere inventions, he's still god, stronger than everything he has created, which is all of humanity and celestial bodies like the sun and the moon
If you don't get it, the humanity example includes any Caine's creations and also Moon and Sun
I'd understand you if it were statements made by NPCs saying "Caine power is literally infinite" that statement may not be valid cuz none of Caine's creations are close to infinite strength, he should only upscale from his actual inventions, their feats and Caine's own feats
Even if the statements about he being God would be by he glazing himself by making his creations say that, they are still his creations, if god made humanity make constant statements glazing him like "god, our creator, is the strongest of them all" even if god is making them say that, just being hidden self glazing, he's still our creator, by definition, by the scaling of we being his mere inventions, he's still god, stronger than everything he has created, which is all of humanity and celestial bodies like the sun and the moon
If you don't get it, the humanity example includes any Caine's creations and also Moon and Sun
I'd understand you if it were statements made by NPCs saying "Caine power is literally infinite" that statement may not be valid cuz none of Caine's creations are close to infinite strength, he should only upscale from his actual inventions, their feats and Caine's own feats
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he made the candy canyon kingdom, which i bet is large mountain if not island level
Breadbear83
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Maybe, may it be a reliable calc using the fact that the main characters and gumiggos brothers were driving a truck for a while until pomni and gumiggos slimed the fudge? It's to calc the size of the kingdom
Althought the timeframe of Caine creating any map is unknown, we never see the detailed process of he making a new map, but in Episode 5 we see he making random scenarios at one time to another, as far as I remember, in that episode he was making the scenarios on the spot whenever a character requested it
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and episode 8 shows he can make these personalized hell holes in an instant, and nothing in the past contradicts this IIRC
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- Thread starter
- #191
You do realize that he still does not have to be physically superior to them to be overall superior, he has EE and lots of other colorful abilities. And without timeframe, it can't scale to creation either.
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he takes the adventures from the suggestion box and makes the maps instantly
Randomuser3412
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Specifically, the first one he makes is a very large area with rocky hills that stretch far into the horizon
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that, and he also should scale to his own code, which is where his power even comes from
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literally large mountains
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they've tunked a lot of things that give then 9-A, the bullets and falling dont really get counted as antifeats really for characters H8C and below, as that range is still low tier enough that most writters just assume it works
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Ragatha, Zooble, & Gangle seems to have tanked a Bowling ball that was speed up via a sniper
Breadbear83
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]
Many feats are rather wall level, but they still would support 9A by being the tier before 9A
Some rifles can get up to 960 m/s, if a 5kg bowling wall went at those speeds it would be 2.3 Megajoules, wall level
Many feats are rather wall level, but they still would support 9A by being the tier before 9A
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not like it hurt them like Kaufmo did
