MAJOR Downgrade for Marvel and DC Heralds

[Ocean7447]

After browsing the interwebs, I stumbled across these set of threads that hugely changed my perspective on Marvel and DC Heralds. It's clear that they are nowhere near as strong as commonly proposed when you factor in their highly consistent struggles with...

• Nukes
• Infrastructure
• Nature

At what point do instances like these stop being called "Outliers" or "anti-feats" and just plain consistency? 30? 40? We're way past that. Users will propose upgrades with only a handful of feats, yet this is far more than a handful. It is clear that Marvel and DC Heralds have FAR more instances of being well below "solar system" than they do being anywhere near it.

 

[Ocean7447]

For now, here's a condensed list for Thor (one of the more prominent heralds) from showings in those threads. Hover over each link for the source.

• Killed by sewage wires and needs to be revived by Surfer
• Knocked out by an Avalanche and again
• Thinks falling into Magma would be fatal
• Scared of falling rocks
• Pinned by rocks
• Pinned by boulder
• Knocked out by falling rock
• Hit by a falling boulder and is down
• Arm pinned by a Iron-Shafted Javelin
• Can't endure rockets for longs and uses a wall to block them
• Stunned by falling helicopter
• Knocked out by flying into steel girders
• Hit by a falling mast which knocks him out and almost leads to him drowning
• Stunned by stick of dynamite
• Villain that overpowered Thor is killed by a fall
• Opponent that was evenly matched by Thor would have been killed by a fall
• Thor fears falling and has to break it
• Can only lift 95 tons
• With his power halved he can't lift a building or a vehicle
• Skyscraper withstands the full force of Thor and Godzilla before eventually starting to crack
• Needs She-Hulks help to stop a capsizing ship
• Can't support a river for long
• Scared of dying from falling off a building
• Struggles to support a collapsing building and needs Spiderman's help
• Unable to support a falling building
• Incapacitated by a falling building
• Mentions how he can't throw a skyscraper as easily as Nefaria and the rubble could crush him
• Pinned by cars for a full minute
• Can't fight a horde of sharks head on and has to resort to creating a vortex to beat them
• Needs nearly a minute to slay a tiger
• Could have been restrained by Steel Tentacles and would have barely survived a falling block
• WW2 mine explodes in his face which briefly leaves him stunned
• Knocked out by exploding mortar
• Floored by artillery craft
• IV needle is able to penetrate his skin
• Cuts himself shaving
• Mightiest blows fail to fully dig through a mountain
• Thor and friends would have died to a large nuke level blast and needed to be shielded by Sue
• Blown away by a nuke while under Warrior Madness
• Two nuclear missiles can only be temporarily contained by Odin-Force Thor
• Struggles to slow down train
• Scared of dying from falling into spikes

That's over 40 instances of a city level or below Thor. I'll get to the others later (who each have roughly the same amount of showings at this level)

 

[M3X_2.0]

Is this a bait or are you serious

 

[Ocean7447]

Is this a bait or are you serious

You can't just call anything that goes against your preconceptions "bait". Each of those instances are cited. Give the threads a read.

 

[Qawsedf234]

At what point do instances like these stop being called "Outliers" or "anti-feats" and just plain consistency? 30? 40?

Well an anti-feat is just a showing that contradicts a proposed feat. Anti-feats themselves are feats most of the time, just lower than what people would like.

Superman struggling to lift a pyramid for example is a feat. It still weighs millions of tons. It's just an anti-feat if the proposed claim is that Superman is multi-planetary in lifting strength.

 

[Ocean7447]

Well an anti-feat is just a showing that contradicts a proposed feat. Anti-feats themselves are feats most of the time, just lower than what people would like.

Superman struggling to lift a pyramid for example is a feat. It still weighs millions of tons. It's just an anti-feat if the proposed claim is that Superman is multi-planetary in lifting strength.

Exactly. People refer to instances such as the ones linked in those threads as anti-feats, when many of them in fact feature impressive showings. However, they hugely contradict the "solar system" meta for Marvel and DC heralds.

 

[Deceived3596]

"Comicvine Links"

 

[Qawsedf234]

You can't just call anything that goes against your preconceptions bait.

Well he wasn't calling this thread bait. He was just asking if you're legitimately trying to downgrade people or if it'd just a meme thing. The latter is still relatively common with stuff like 1-A Superman or Outerversal Saitama.

People refer to instances such as the ones linked in those threads as anti-feats

No, they are indeed anti-feats if our ratings claim them to be consistent 4-B or 4-A. It's just that anti-feat as a term isn't what people here usually promote it as.

 

[Ocean7447]

"Comicvine Links"

The site it comes from is irrelevant. It could come from the hub, as long as it has cited scans, that's all that matters.

 

[Shmooply]

We weren't even done with the 4-A upgrade, man.

 

[Confluctor]

TIER 10 HERALDS?!?! LET'S GOOOOO.

Finally the wank ends.

 

[M3X_2.0]

This is basically the people who scale street level characters to cosmic level characters, but the opposite. None of them understands the concept of the character. The concept of the character Thor is to be a cosmic level character, downgrading Thor to this level while in his most recent comics he killed what the comic said "the most powerful Galactus" is bullshit.

That's basically trying to upgrade Spider-Man to cosmic level characters while he can't move Loki with his punches.

 

[Hasty12345]

You’re probably WAYYY better off doing this 1 character at a time…

I have no idea why I’m supposed to think Superman is city block level because Thor is….

 

[Ocean7447]

This is basically the people who scale street level characters to cosmic level characters, but the opposite. None of them understands the concept of the character. The concept of the character Thor is to be a cosmic level character, downgrading Thor to this level while in his most recent comics he killed what the comic said "the most powerful Galactus" is bullshit.

And what determines the concept of the character? You? Did you have a chat with the creator of Thor? Thor's feats while amped by the Odin-Force are irrelevant (and even with the Odin-Force he's currently been less than impressive).

 

[Ocean7447]

You’re probably WAYYY better off doing this 1 character at a time…

I have no idea why I’m supposed to think Superman is city block level because Thor is….

The threads feature showings for Superman as well along with a multitude of DC Heralds, but Superman and Thor did fight in a canon crossover and Superman barely beat him if you want to go there.

 

[Confluctor]

Jokes aside, your scans are missing sources, which means you have literally 0 clue about the contexts of most of this shit. Some inconsistencies exists, high and low, so that's why we are finding a middle ground, and something that is more consistent with the scaling.

 

[Hasty12345]

The threads feature showings for Superman as well along with a multitude of DC Heralds, but Superman and Thor did fight in a canon crossover and Superman barely beat him if you want to go there.

You missed the point of my comment

 

[Ocean7447]

Jokes aside, your scans are missing sources, which means you have literally 0 clue about the contexts of most of this shit. Some inconsistencies exists, high and low, so that's why we are finding a middle ground, and something that is more consistent with the scaling.

All of the scans are cited. In both the threads and the link list I provided.

 

[M3X_2.0]

The comics themselves? You'll see Thor consistently being treated as such, same for Spider-Man. Just look at the difference between a street level character and a cosmic level one. One is limited to NY streets and wont have high feats like Thor, who is consistently trading blows and shocking planets and destroying them.

It's not hard to use your brain to think.

 

[Confluctor]

Where? Literally none of them are cited.

 

[Ocean7447]

You missed the point of my comment

What point were you trying to make?

 

[Ocean7447]

Where? Literally none of them are cited.

Are you seriously saying this? You click on the thread and you see the citation next to the scan. You hover over the links and you see the source.

Here's an alternative source to the links for Thor. Hover over these.

 

[Hasty12345]

What point were you trying to make?

Don’t try and downgrade like 50 characters across 2 of the longest running and largest franchises on the wiki at the same time.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

The characters being this weak doesn't make sense contextually, I'm afraid. While you can argue if Superman is Tier 4, 3, 2, 1, etc, him being below at least Ter 5 makes no sense for his character, as he's often seen as the strongest and mightiest of heroes, who often deals with threats on a cosmic scale

In addition, Superman has mental barriers that keep him from using all of his strength, which we oftne use to justify power-scaling but is applicable here as well

 

[Confluctor]

Are you seriously saying this? You click on the thread and you see the citation next to the scan. You hover over the links and you see the source.

Here's an alternative source to the links for Thor. Hover over these.

lmaoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

[M3X_2.0]

Yeah this is a bait.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Sidenote but a lot of the Thor justifications make sense iin the proper context, for example this one This was in an era where if Thor was without his hammer for a few minutes, he would depower to that of a normal human, so he was falling in the volcano seconds before being depowered

Some f them aren't even Thor but Eric Masterson.

 

[The_Impress]

For now, here's a condensed list for Thor (one of the more prominent heralds) from showings in those threads. Hover over each link for the source.

• Killed by sewage wires and needs to be revived by Surfer
• Knocked out by an Avalanche and again
• Thinks falling into Magma would be fatal
• Scared of falling rocks
• Pinned by rocks
• Pinned by boulder
• Knocked out by falling rock
• Hit by a falling boulder and is down
• Arm pinned by a Iron-Shafted Javelin
• Can't endure rockets for longs and uses a wall to block them
• Stunned by falling helicopter
• Knocked out by flying into steel girders
• Hit by a falling mast which knocks him out and almost leads to him drowning
• Stunned by stick of dynamite
• Villain that overpowered Thor is killed by a fall
• Opponent that was evenly matched by Thor would have been killed by a fall
• Thor fears falling and has to break it
• Can only lift 95 tons
• With his power halved he can't lift a building or a vehicle
• Skyscraper withstands the full force of Thor and Godzilla before eventually starting to crack
• Needs She-Hulks help to stop a capsizing ship
• Can't support a river for long
• Scared of dying from falling off a building
• Struggles to support a collapsing building and needs Spiderman's help
• Unable to support a falling building
• Incapacitated by a falling building
• Mentions how he can't throw a skyscraper as easily as Nefaria and the rubble could crush him
• Pinned by cars for a full minute
• Can't fight a horde of sharks head on and has to resort to creating a vortex to beat them
• Needs nearly a minute to slay a tiger
• Could have been restrained by Steel Tentacles and would have barely survived a falling block
• WW2 mine explodes in his face which briefly leaves him stunned
• Knocked out by exploding mortar
• Floored by artillery craft
• IV needle is able to penetrate his skin
• Cuts himself shaving
• Mightiest blows fail to fully dig through a mountain
• Thor and friends would have died to a large nuke level blast and needed to be shielded by Sue
• Blown away by a nuke while under Warrior Madness
• Two nuclear missiles can only be temporarily contained by Odin-Force Thor
• Struggles to slow down train
• Scared of dying from falling into spikes

That's over 40 instances of a city level or below Thor. I'll get to the others later (who each have roughly the same amount of showings at this level)

Y'know for users who like to claim Staff is the one that likes to downplay. There you go.

Most of this shit contradicts itself, it has Thor getting floored by 9-C shit and then immediately tanking 9-A durability crap. The selection of feats presented isn't consistent with itself, let alone it damaging current ratings, and it's using irrelevant trivial instances to yeet contextually more important ones.

Consistency isn't alone what matters, it's consistency with context. Read the Power-Scaling rules page on wiki.

 

[The_Impress]

Anywyas this thread is dumb because it's tackling two unrelated verses at the same time. Make separate threads for each verse. Closing.