Lmfao, what kind of maki glaze is that.
Maki wasnt surprised, she was blitzed from 10+ meters buddy. If she was surprised, she would try to block, but it never happened and she was just badly blitzed.
Just like
Ryu got badly blitzed by Rika right? Being surprised by a speed increase and tagged from a distance doesn't mean you're a blitz tier below someone else.
Bad position doesnt mean anything, she can jump from the air and have prediction.
She can jump from the air, but it's not like she can just do it any way she likes, there are surfaces in
specific places that she can jump off of, it's like having various invisible ledges in the air, but not unlimited. Prediction helps, but obviously it has its limits. Even when Maki was
pretty clearly relative to Nerfed Meguna, he was
still able to tag her by destroying her footing.
He doesnt, ur assumption is baseless.
It's a pretty logical assumption that when cover exists you'd use it. Although admittedly they were probably not that helpful given their size
It is. Maki couldnt react/tried to block/deflect an attack and was grabbed in the face out of the building. Not a single movement from her was done to try to evade.
This is proof that he hit her before she physically reacted (which again, doesn't make Sukuna a blitz tier above her), not that she didn't see him
And funny enough how u saying that she "reacted", when at the first scan Sukuna just hit the SSK and grabbed it and had yap session about sorcery and etc + swung his arm
Pretty clear that he's the one on the offensive given that Maki's in the same position
relative to the fence behind her and there were a few meters between them, meaning Sukuna rushed forward and Maki swung her sword to block his incoming advance.
and on the second scan she "blocked" it, because her hand was already in this position as u see in the first scan.
It was in the right general area, but obviously it's not like Sukuna aimed for her hand, she would've had to move her hand to the right position at the moment he swung his fist.
And yeah, he would be slower, since HE LITERALLY HAVE YAP SESSION and swunging his arm, CONTINUINING his yap session and only then hitting her.
Maki glazers the only one, who say that clear blitz is just "being surprised" lmao.
I'm not close to a Maki glazer lol, idt she's even top 12. I just think ppl take some of Sukuna's feats out of context to exaggerate the gap between him and the rest of the verse, especially when it comes to weakened Sukuna.
Let's read the entire thing together,
Sukuna after using the dismantles realises that megumi is suppressing his cursed energy output and that it can get as low as 10%, the part where he talks about his physical movements being unhindered is about his control over the body, he's saying that despite Megumi being able to reject him and lower his output, he can't take control over the body's flesh/movements
like Yuji did for example.
That's why I said it's not direct, but my reading of it is that he's saying his CE output fluctuates, sometimes getting to below 10%, but that his physicals don't ever get that bad. So in other words, I read "There’s inconsistency, but when my cursed energy output is really bad, it drops to below ten percent. My physical movements, though, don’t seem to fall off that much…" as "There’s inconsistency, but when my cursed energy output is really bad, it drops to below ten percent. My cursed energy enhanced physicals, though, don't seem to fall off that much…"
This is him admitting that his CE Output can go as far as making him 1/10 weaker than he normally is, weakening his cursed energy output entirely, even if you wanna say it's "only when he uses dismantles" is still significant cause his durability would also decrease as durability in JJK relies on cursed energy output. We see that even when using the slashes, a punch from CG Rage Amped Yuji does basically nothing to him other than push him back, with Sukuna even noting his cursed energy is falling right there. The Sukuna that Yuji punched here, no matter how you wanna put it was around 1/10 less durable than normally, and he ate that punch.
No, given that Sukuna specifies that Megumi drops his CT's CE output, and not his CE output when he uses a CT, the more likely interpretation is that Megumi is suppressing the slashes specifically, not simply his body as a whole. And anyways, Sukuna
had stopped using Dismantles just before Yuji punched him. You also still haven't addressed that Sukuna says it's below 10% only at its worst, this doesn't mean his slashes are consistently around 10%. If the average was floating around 20-30% with some especially weak ones being below 10%, his statement is not wrong.
But we will continue, as right after he notes that his cursed energy can go as low as 10% he says word by word: "Well, this amount of cursed energy should be more than enough to comfortably slaughter the brat." He is saying this when in reference to his 10% amount of cursed energy, Sukuna is extremely confident that even with getting nerfed as low as 10% of his amount of output, he can still slaughter Yuji comfortably.
He doesn't actually mention CE at all
in the raws, he's just judging based on his feats (that he could physically keep up with/overpower Yuji in their scuffle, and that his slashes could still injure Yuji over time) that he's above him. The
VIZ translation is more accurate in this case.
まぁここで小僧を殺す分には
特に不自由はしない
Well, when it comes to killing the brat here, there’s no particular hindrance.
Considering he had just talked about how his physicals aren't nerfed as badly as the last thought before saying he can be beat Yuji, and that he mostly uses cqc in the following battle, if anything he was just referring to his >10% physicals as being enough to kill Yuji.
Now as you said he does note that about his technique, however you should look at the entire context,
Sukuna did not use his technique once ever since Maki showed up until that point. Sukuna got to that conclusion from fighting Maki and Yuji
physically, his technique output also gets nerfed yes but so does his entire output gets massively nerfed even further
even if he's going for a simple punch on them., it's why Maki is also able to withstand that punch from Sukuna despite being comparable to the Yuji who's punch barely did damage to 10% of Sukuna as he was using dismantles.
So yes, Sukuna weakened physically by 1/10 is indeed still > Awakened Maki and Rage Amped CG Yuji. He would nearly clear the verse like this in 1v1s lol.
I mean he'd be top 15 probably. Ig you could call that nearly clearing the verse.
And again, let's think for a bit:
- You think Ryu scales to dismantles despite him being one shotted by Cleaves;
I don't, Sukuna does
- As I already proved, Sukuna scales to his own cleaves therefore making Sukuna's physicals a one shot level above Ryu;
Haven't proved that Sukuna's punches scale to his Cleaves. You've proved that Gojo's durability scales low end to Cleaves.
- CG Yuji, even when rage amped, is less durable and weaker than Ryu;
Yes? Not sure why you're bringing this up as if it helps you
- Sukuna is taking damage from Yuji there and both him and Maki actually take attacks and clash with him physically;
- This would not make sense if Sukuna's physicals werent that massively nerfed as well cause it'd mean that despite Yuji still being harmed by dismantles... he scales to something a one shot tier above dismantles? How does that make sense?
The Dismantles are fluctuating, and Sukuna is still significantly weaker than usual physically. Ntm that Rage Amp Yuji isn't THAT close to Maki yet. Sukuna
smacks Yuji in the face while Maki
slams him away, and when Sukuna kicks into high gear,
only Maki can keep up with him (note that it's just 2 different lines moving across the blocks). And this makes sense, as even after a month of training which
significantly improved Yuji's CE reinforcement, he still doesn't seem superior to Maki looking at their respective performances against Sukuna (heck, even after awakening, the same Sukuna that
Maki clashed with can keep up with Yuji).
What is this Maki glaze bro what (omg I sound like Elde)
- After her sumo training, Maki, with her eyes is able to literally see the differences in temperature and density of air which allows her to predict how her opponent will move before they even move. Sukuna had to blitz her precognition as well even as Maki was staring directly at him, this just makes it worse.
- Again, after her sumo training, Maki is able to literally react while FALLING off a building mid-air. She wouldn't be at a disadvantage here.
See what I said to Keshirou.
Fair enough, though idk about the panel getting cut thing, think that's just a panel being smaller
Same
- That is not keeping up lol, look at the scene, Sukuna falls meters away from Maki, Maki tries to go for a swing and Sukuna punches her sword away,
Opposite
- then Maki notes that he stopped using his RCT to heal and keep his heart beating, tries to for a swing which Sukuna literally grabs and immediatly black flashes her. She only had time to put her hand in her torso because it was already there before so the black flash's damage wasn't as bad. She was still getting completely outpaced and not keeping up at all here.
If Sukuna was really so much faster that he can perception blitz her from 5-10 meters away, then her hand being in roughly the right area shouldn't be close to enough. Sukuna would've just punched her before she saw him again. That he didn't when being in an even more locked in state is just proof of his initial blitz being contextual.
Sukuna even pre chapter 250 was already way below 16F Sukuna otherwise Yuji, Yuta, Maki, everyone would have died immediatly cause they are 10x below a 16F Sukuna as I already proved.
Nope. Also Yuta bodies Maki overall even if they're physically close. Same thing with Yuta vs Low Output Meguna.
Them taking damage still means they are relative bro what, you are acting like the gap in damage is the gap of a one shot level. I wanna genuinely ask if you think Dismantles would actually do 0 damage to Gojo and Sukuna considering they both scale to Gojo taking MULTIPLE CLEAVES FROM MALEVOLENT SHRINE. Considering the idea of Ryu showing that the gap between dismantle and cleave is a literal one tap would mean that dismantles would bounce off gojo and sukuna... do you genuinely wanna push this?
Dismantle did
pretty good damage to Ryu, just not lethal. So it's not really a one shot level difference between Dismantle and Cleave. Just a big one. Dismantle would do pretty meaningless damage to Gojo/Sukuna ngl. Wouldn't "bounce off," but would barely hurt.
CE reserves and efficency are a non factor when it comes to the drop of CE output via injury/weakening the output itself, the reserves or efficency will never restore the output lost,
Gojo quite literally notes his output is on the decline despite his basically
"endless" reserve due to six eyes making the waste of output insignificant and Sukuna's was evidently even lower despite having even better efficency and reserves quantity than Gojo.
Except it's specifically noted that spamming RCT non-stop
is an anomalous situation that can't be compared to endless stamina when fighting regularly. Ntm that using 5 DEs in a row is also a pretty extreme situation even for someone with godlike efficiency. So Gojo could very well have drained a decent bit of his CE. Also, Yuta gets back to FP when his reserves are filled back up by Rika even though he used RCT quite a few times. So yes, CE reserves and CE output are tied.
Except you can easily get a decent qualification on how weak Sukuna was.
For the entire Gojo fight, let's find the bare minimum. As I already proved, 10% of 15F Sukuna is already able to match Awakened Maki and CG Rage Amped Yuji.
Again no
Kashimo should be comparable to them and he is able to match the Sukuna post the Gojo fight, we know the gap between 5F and 15F Sukuna is over 10x, using the same, the gap between 15F and 20F should be 5x bare minimum (this is once again a low ball as we know),
Uh, no, not really? Why would it be linear like that? If fingers are exponential, and 5F to 16F (not 15F) is ~>10x, then each finger would boost Sukuna by ~1.24x. So 20F Sukuna would be ~2.36x stronger than 16F Sukuna.
It's a highball, since his output is below 10% only when it's really bad
this means that 15F Sukuna would be around 20% of Shinjuku Sukuna's power, and since Kashimo would only be able to at least take stuff from around 10% of 15F Sukuna, he'd be fighting 2% SUKUNA (in terms of output) and him being dominated wouldn't change his output that much.
Since we're so heavily on the subject of exponential fingers and coming to frankly absurd conclusions like this, let me give some reasons why I don't think fingers are exponential.
1. Miguel has Base Gojo level stats and is overall below Yuta, plus he isn't just able to explode Sukuna's body every time he hits him. This is most definitely not a case of retconning, as the statement and Miguel punching Sukuna are LITERALLY on the same page. Gege very clearly knew what he was doing with that statement that people just tend to discard
2. 16F Sukuna is clearly portrayed as a threat to Gojo. While he would certainly lose, the fact that Sukuna's presence was threatening enough for Gojo to not go after his best friend's body, and that Sukuna seemed to
intercept his Red and then clashed with him, is enough proof that they're on the same tier
3. Mahoraga can somewhat fight 15F Sukuna yet Sukuna thinks his 3F self has a chance against Mahoraga
4. Yuji didn't instantly overwhelm Sukuna
when he vomited out fingers
5. Geto with Rika's power could supposedly beat Gojo despite Geto on his own being a massive 15F victim (obviously not a linear amp of Geto's power + Rika's power>Gojo, but even if it's Rika's infinite CE super charging him and all his curses, and him copying all their CTs, that wouldn't matter if Gojo blitzes and one shots him)
6. Gojo says that 1 finger is
a twentieth of Sukuna
7. Jogo can fight 5F Sukuna but is
implied weaker than 3F Sukuna by Mahito, and he can damage 15F Sukuna with Maximum Meteor. It'd certainly be weird for him to have an attack more than 10x stronger than his regular output, when that's not really the case for anyone else
8. Yuta and Maki think
they can fight a version of Mahoraga adapted to the point of being able to somewhat contend with Gojo (and Yuji implicitly agrees that Yuta can fight Mahoraga). Given that they've been watching the fight intently, they'd know Mahoraga's capabilities quite well. And considering Sukuna's statement about
his Purple's potential output, it doesn't really seem like Gojo was massively weakened.
But you can also just get some baselines from a fight where we
DO have a numerical value on how weak someone can get with X damage
:
Mahito by getting hit from
Resonance,
beaten up by Yuji,
getting his clone killed and
getting black flash'd by a Weaker Yuji once already says
he's only at around 40%. Even low balling and saying those 4 stuff each took the same fraction of Mahito.
Doing some quick calculation (1-(1/?))^4 = 0.40, we find out that "?" is 4.88, so each of those 4 things, low balled took around 1/4.88 of Mahito's power each time (As in, 100 - 100*(1/4.88) = 79.50819672 | 79.50819672 - 79.50819672*(1/4.88) = 63.21553346 | In four it'd reach the 40%). This is low balled because with black flash for example should take way more than just getting his clone killed lol, and remember that Sukuna took
8 BLACK FLASHES.
Why are we comparing Mahito to Sukuna
So yes you can very much assume a decently accurate quantifier for them and let me tell you unless you are one of the "Kashimo top 3" agenda pushers and think he was fighting like 40% Sukuna or some insane thing like that
Probably more like 60%
or think TF Sukuna is the buff of a life time then everyone in Shinjuku was still below a Sukuna on like 0.1% lmao.
Lol
Lmao even
Lmfao perhaps
Roftl at the utmost
They'd all lose and they are all below 10% of 16F Sukuna still.
Maki might just beat Nerfed Meguna, she was fighting him pretty well without even using SSK
If you still don't get how that correlates let me put it simply.
Let's say 15F Sukuna is "10" here and that Sukuna actually was EQUAL TO 15F Sukuna even as far as chapter 257. (We both disagree with this and say hes even weaker but look at this)
The 8 black flashes from Yuji would already take that "10" to around 1.60.
No...Sukuna was comparable to Yuji before and after the Black Flashes. He's just built differently than Mahito
Notice how it's almost a 10x gap... and even then Sukuna was S T I L L S T R O N G E R, stronger than an AWAKENED YUJI, who at that point is beyond Ryu. Tell me how does it make sense for Ryu to scale to 15F Sukuna, go ahead.
Again, no? Output changes after being damaged regardless if you keep your CE reserves intact which is what he kept. Sukuna did not increase in output that much .
Nada. Also he undid the damage so I don't see how it's relevant.
Dawg what? A Fresh Awakened Maki fights Sukuna in chapters 252 and 253 and got absolutely dogwalked, Sukuna also sent Maki out of the fight in chapter 256. NO ONE is beating that Sukuna other than Gojo.
Idk why we're equating Maki with Yuji and Yuta. She's close to them in physicals, but that's all. They absolutely gap her overall cause of Yuta's CTs/Rika and both of their domains. If Ch 252 Sukuna fought FP Yuta, he'd only have one hand available against the combined onslaught of Yuta and fully manifested Rika with unlimited access to copied CTs. He's getting demolished. And obviously any version of him with only 2 hands is losing. Let's not even talk about the version of him with only 2 right hands that can't even use HWB
That scan just makes it worse cause if you look right after, Maki shows up with basically no extreme injury in her chest in the same chapter, even after getting cleaved right there. So by your logic she'd be stronger than Ryu (Which I agree but it doenst help your point if you didn't understand)
If it was Cleaves sure
Everyone else is out for the rest of the fight because they were on a bad state. Higuruma was deadly injured since the beginning of the fight, Yuta was cut in half and still trying to transfer himself to Gojo's body, Kusakabe had a cross in his chest,
Seems pretty RCTable but ig
Miguel was helping out Larue who got black flashed by Sukuna, Choso DIES in the same scene, Ino says he was going because that was all he could do (he was using Nanami's cleave and lost it as he throws it at sukuna to distract him so Yuji could caught him with a offguard black flash).
Who else did you want to jump in other than Todo? Miwa? Angel? Shoko just learns to fight out of nowhere? Maki was indeed taken out by those dismantles doing massive damage. Remember that Maki even with her injuries in the same chapter still shows superiority to unawakened Yuji who as you already conceded is relative to Ryu so.
I didn't? Not like I think they're a tier apart, but Ryu is considerably stronger/more durable, though Yuji is faster
Even if weaker,
CG Yuta was already comparable to Ryu in durability. Do you think he did and took all this while being below that much below Ryu in durability:
Ryu literally takes his own attack and admits it hurts him.
It's made very clear that, yea yuta is weaker but they are comparable, there is barely any difference so if ryu by ur logic scales, so does even CG Yuta via being comparable and Shinjuku Sukuna even harder.
Yeah there's some scaling, just downscaling
Todo was struggling while jumping a Mahito at 40% alongside a Yuji (who was also weakened but the point here is Todo)
Being at 40% doesn't matter cause he's even weaker when he Black Flashes Todo later. He struggles cause of IT, not Mahito just stat gapping him
and even after Mahito divided his power further, they were still struggling with that divided power and it was actually holding them off:
80% is fairly close to FP
I think you forgot that any type of injury affects the cursed energy output of a sorcerer drastically, it's why Naobito was so weakened after losing an arm, any type of injury is extremely important for a sorcerer.
Naobito's output isn't the main thing attributed for his nerf. Considering his sense of strategic framing and timing is hyped up just prior, I think Naobito's "rhythm" is messed up by not having an arm. Also it's def not necessarily drastic. Uro after losing an arm still survives a Granite Blast, Gojo is still goated after he loses an arm, and Sukuna's statistical performance doesn't change that much depending on how many arms he has (though he does ofc perform better in cqc overall when he has more arms)
What do you mean definitely not enough? Red is 2x above Sukuna and Gojo, Sukuna basically got combo'd by 2x red into a 2.5x punch, of course he passed out lol.
It pushed him into it, but they're separate attacks
Its significantly above every version of Sukuna post Gojo bro lol.
Maybe the fact that they are comparable still exists?
Idk how else to put what I've been saying. Gojo's strength~Sukuna's strength. Gojo's durability<~Cleave. This does not equal Gojo/Sukuna's strength<~Cleave. Gojo can just be more tanky than he is physically strong.
Also Mahoraga fight has mahoraga literally swing away a dismantle and get one shotted by cleave right after as well.
What is this supposed to prove?
You didn't address the fact that Gojo takes cleaves from MALEVOLENT SHRINE, do you wanna say that was plot armor or smth?
And you didn't address this
Physicals being on par with, or superior to CT output (if physicals~Cleave>>Dismantle) makes no sense, and
the narrator says as much.
