(Mega Man upgrade and downgrade) - I hid myself while i upgrade myself

[Crimson_cordx]

If you’re referring to the GameBoy cutscene of him jumping back I’m still not really seeing that as a reaction feat for the teleporting, it looks more like he’s surprised and jumped back over the sudden appearance of a boss more than him literally reacting to the teleport itself (doesn’t help that hardware limitation makes it really hard to tell if he’s even reacting to it or not).

Rock reacts before the teleport arrives, not after lol

 

[Theglassman12]

Where did he react to the teleport itself because the teleport wasn't aiming at him directly, so why are we assuming he reacted to something that wasn't aimed at him?

 

[Crimson_cordx]

Where did he react to the teleport itself because the teleport wasn't aiming at him directly, so why are we assuming he reacted to something that wasn't aimed at him?

He reacted before the teleport, so he’s at least that fast—otherwise Rock wouldn’t even be able to react to it.

 

[Theglassman12]

The teleport wasn't aiming at him so he's reacting to nothing because it's not going towards him, just another area so why is this being used for a speed feat?

 

[Crimson_cordx]

The teleport wasn't aiming at him so he's reacting to nothing because it's not going towards him, just another area so why is this being used for a speed feat?

Eh, if the immeasurable speed argument ain’t solid enough, still have the infinite one

 

[Theglassman12]

If the infinite speed stuff is tied to this specific teleportation feat then I’d have some issues, if it’s from something completely different then I have no comment on it

 

[TyranoDoom30]

I have the same opinions as Ami and Scorpius

But now that i think about Immeasurable, why do we just cap the feat of Techno/Sigma rewriting the Mother Computer as just MFTL+? As already accepted in the profiles and the current scaling, they are affecting whole timelines in their entirety. I shouldn't need to explain this but timelines/space-times are infinite 4-D constructs that contain past, present and future. MFTL+ is only treating space, and not the fact this feat is literally affecting the entirety of whole timelines, which is why the feat is 2-C. This is supported by how the feat is described as instant in the MM&MMX OCW.

 

[AguilaR202]

Well, time to nerf sonic characters then, infinite speed but they use time manipulation to slow down or stop time

So yeah, gameplay in that regard, nothing more to say

Afaik they also are sus, but they do have much harder showings of fighting inmeasurable speeds characters across the past present future as opposed to it being simple extrapolation off the mechanics of some abilities.

I have the same opinions as Ami and Scorpius

But now that i think about Immeasurable, why do we just cap the feat of Techno/Sigma rewriting the Mother Computer as just MFTL+? As already accepted in the profiles and the current scaling, they are affecting whole timelines in their entirety. I shouldn't need to explain this but timelines/space-times are infinite 4-D constructs that contain past, present and future. MFTL+ is only treating space, and not the fact this feat is literally affecting the entirety of whole timelines, which is why the feat is 2-C. This is supported by how the feat is described as instant in the MM&MMX OCW.

its not even proper to measure feats like that as speed feats, he isn’t engulfing a 2C structure with an explosion that travels( which isn’t immeasurable by default either).

 

[TyranoDoom30]

its not even proper to measure feats like that as speed feats, he isn’t engulfing a 2C structure with an explosion that travels( which isn’t immeasurable by default either).

It is, given that these feats are affecting a timeline aka affecting past, present and future and in turn scale to speed. Since the feat is Techno and Sigma creating multiple entire timelines through their CPU, they also had to process past, present and future all at once as well. Again, that's why the feat is 2-C and not 3-A

 

[TheHedgememe]

I have the same opinions as Ami and Scorpius

But now that i think about Immeasurable, why do we just cap the feat of Techno/Sigma rewriting the Mother Computer as just MFTL+? As already accepted in the profiles and the current scaling, they are affecting whole timelines in their entirety. I shouldn't need to explain this but timelines/space-times are infinite 4-D constructs that contain past, present and future. MFTL+ is only treating space, and not the fact this feat is literally affecting the entirety of whole timelines, which is why the feat is 2-C. This is supported by how the feat is described as instant in the MM&MMX OCW.

Knowing how the verse is handled on this site they probably just don't accept the potential Immeasurable end of it because of all of the aforementioned antifeats (which I find very questionable, for reasons I've already explained). Or, perhaps there's another reason I'm unaware of.

It is indeed both an AP and speed feat though given how Techno uses his CPU—and CPUs obviously require energy to operate, in addition to CPUs in the series being tied to processing speeds as stated with characters such as Signas.

 

[Crimson_cordx]

I have the same opinions as Ami and Scorpius

I already replied to both of them, so eh.

But now that i think about Immeasurable, why do we just cap the feat of Techno/Sigma rewriting the Mother Computer as just MFTL+? As already accepted in the profiles and the current scaling, they are affecting whole timelines in their entirety. I shouldn't need to explain this but timelines/space-times are infinite 4-D constructs that contain past, present and future. MFTL+ is only treating space, and not the fact this feat is literally affecting the entirety of whole timelines, which is why the feat is 2-C. This is supported by how the feat is described as instant in the MM&MMX OCW.

“Can process timelines simultaneously” has nothing to do w/ Immeasurable speed.
Where the evidence that Techno is moving trough time by sheer speed?

 

[TyranoDoom30]

“Can process timelines simultaneously” has nothing to do w/ Immeasurable speed.

Do you know how Immeasurable works?

Knowing how the verse is handled on this site they probably just don't accept the potential Immeasurable end of it because of all of the aforementioned antifeats

Eh, they were mostly applied because of the already "shaky" original Infinite speed rating (because the real argument against it were the Duo statements), otherwise there is very little anti-feats which doesn't revolve around gameplay mechanics and even the real ones can be explained as just cases of plot-induced stupidity (Specially when there's a horde of MFTL+ feats in the series), and unlike with the Duo stuff there is zero contradictions. No game developer is going to accurately portray a speed level they have zero idea about, let alone not having it completely break the story in seconds. It's like saying an Infinite speed character can't be that fast because the plot takes place over a period of three days.

Even in the original thread most people disagreed that the timers were contradictions in the slightest, they mostly agreed with the initial points.

 

[Crimson_cordx]

Do you know how Immeasurable works?

Yea, I know.
Processing multiple timelines ≠ immeasurable speed. Techno’s CPU isn’t moving through time or anything

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Processing multiple timelines ≠ immeasurable speed.

It is because

the feat is Techno and Sigma creating multiple entire timelines through their CPU, they also had to process past, present and future all at once as well and it's said to be instantly as well.

Immeasurable is not just time travel. Processing and reacting to the past, present and future at once is Immeasurable. Learn our standards better.

 

[Crimson_cordx]

Immeasurable is not just time travel. Processing and reacting to the past, present and future at once is Immeasurable. Learn our standards better.

Eh, no? Techno is clearly bound by linear time since the feat legit took a while

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Eh, no? Techno is clearly bound by linear time since the feat legit took a while

We're dealing with whole entire timelines here. It could take a day or two and it would still be Immeasurable. Additionally, that scan doesn't even say it took any time, it literally says it happened instantly.

 

[TheHedgememe]

Eh, no? Techno is clearly bound by linear time since the feat legit took a while

"In the blink of an eye" is not "a while."

 

[Crimson_cordx]

"In the blink of an eye" is not "a while."

It’s basically the same thing. Even in a blink, it’s still bound by time

 

[Crimson_cordx]

We're dealing with whole entire timelines here. It could take a day or two and it would still be Immeasurable. Additionally, that scan doesn't even say it took any time, it literally says it happened instantly.

In the blink of an eye*
“Instantly” is just one translation.

Immeasurable requires moving beyond or trough time itself, not just processing timelines. That’s just AP.

Come to think of it, why isn’t the Cyber-Elves affecting 2 universes counted as a speed feat?
Like, shouldn’t that scale somewhere speed-wise?

 

[TyranoDoom30]

In the blink of an eye*
“Instantly” is just one translation

Which is just a translator's choice. Both a more literal translation and the OCW supports that it's literally. Besides, "in the brink of an eye" usually means so fast it's barely noticeable. Futhermore, it doesn't debunk in the slightest the basic point that it could take a day or so and it would still be Immeasurable, since he's processing three different point of times at once.

Immeasurable requires moving beyond or trough time itself, not just processing timelines. That’s just AP.

Processing timelines in a way that also scales to his speed. He is processing past, present and future all at once instantly. This is textbook Immeasurable. Not being harsh, but all i'm seeing from here is that either you don't know our standards or you don't know how Immeasurable works at all and thinks it's just "time travel" when it can be much more than that.

If it's just AP, why it's currently accepted as a speed feat? Because, as already accepted, CPUs = speed in-verse. MFTL+ is only considering space and not the fact this feat is also affecting a timeline, which is Immeasurable.

 

[TheHedgememe]

Come to think of it, why isn’t the Cyber-Elves affecting 2 universes counted as a speed feat?
Like, shouldn’t that scale somewhere speed-wise?

It's just reality warping via info type 2 manip and establishing that data governs reality in the verse. Doesn't scale to speed in any meaningful way outside of amplifying the stats of users. It doesn't help that Cyber-Elves, outside the Mother Elf, are specialized in nature.

It’s basically the same thing. Even in a blink, it’s still bound by time

As Tyranodoom said, it's an expression used to describe something happening extremely quickly. It isn't literal.

 

[Crimson_cordx]

Which is just a translator's choice. Both a more literal translation and the OCW supports that it's literally. Besides, "in the brink of an eye" usually means so fast it's barely noticeable. Futhermore, it doesn't debunk in the slightest the basic point that it could take a day or so and it would still be Immeasurable, since he's processing three different point of times at once.

If the movement is truly instantaneous, then it'd qualify as Infinite Speed, not just MFTL+.

Processing timelines in a way that also scales to his speed. He is processing past, present and future all at once instantly. This is textbook Immeasurable. Not being harsh, but all i'm seeing from here is that either you don't know our standards or you don't know how Immeasurable works at all and thinks it's just "time travel" when it can be much more than that.

Immeasurable speed requires a character to move or act independently from time itself, like traveling through time via sheer speed, acting beyond temporal causality, being faster than time itself, etc etc.

I'm not against the idea especially when there's some other Immeasurable args

 

[Crimson_cordx]

It's just reality warping via info type 2 manip and establishing that data governs reality in the verse. Doesn't scale to speed in any meaningful way outside of amplifying the stats of users. It doesn't help that Cyber-Elves, outside the Mother Elf, are specialized in nature.

Their abilities would still have to travel through both universes simultaneously, but eh

 

[Theglassman12]

It being in a blink of an eye doesn't contradict an immeasurable speed feat, not saying it's legit but that's not an argument you can make to invalidate something being immeasurable.

 

[TheHedgememe]

I'm not against the idea especially when there's some other Immeasurable args

That's from Teppen, which as far as I'm aware isn't canon to the Mega Man franchise.

 

[Crimson_cordx]

That's from Teppen, which as far as I'm aware isn't canon to the Mega Man franchise.

It’s made by Capcom, so i don't think this fall under the crossover thing, but that still has nothing to do w/ this CRT

 

[Crimson_cordx]

It being in a blink of an eye doesn't contradict an immeasurable speed feat, not saying it's legit but that's not an argument you can make to invalidate something being immeasurable.

I'm not gonna argue anymore since we're basically going in circles at this point.
But if Immeasurable Speed is supposed to be unbound time, then how did it still take time lore-wise?
Even if it was just a tiny fraction of a second, that's still time

 

[TyranoDoom30]

I'm not gonna argue anymore since we're basically going in circles at this point.
But if Immeasurable Speed is supposed to be unbound time, then how did it still take time lore-wise?
Even if it was just a tiny fraction of a second, that's still time

If you cross the entirety of an infinite space in X time, that's never gonna get MFTL+ and it's always Infinite speed, since that's the sheer definition of that rating. Since we're dealing with the entirety of a timeline, a 4-D construct with infinite information and the three points of time, the feat is either Infinite or Immeasurable, most likely the latter since they are capable of reacting to past, present and future at once and some characters can blitz them.

 

[TheHedgememe]

If you cross the entirety of an infinite space in X time, that's never gonna get MFTL+ and it's always Infinite speed, since that's the sheer definition of that rating. Since we're dealing with the entirety of a timeline, a 4-D construct with infinite information and the three points of time, the feat is either Infinite or Immeasurable, most likely the latter since they are capable of reacting to past, present and future at once and some characters can blitz them.

You could probably bring up how data has weird time-related stuff like how Anteator was looking at Zero's data in X7 too in conjunction with this.

 

[AlloyAmi]

I might be missing smth, but that’d only be a stats limitation, not abilities.
The chars themselves are creates by their Data, which includes their abilities, so I think we can at least use X Dive for Hax

Only their base abilities would apply, Xdive is everything they can do in the canon + more which is again, why utterly useless characters can all of sudden do waymore. and its very clear their stats should be higher significantly considering they scale to the admins of the verse in this state.

The player and bosses enter the stages using teleport, so it's safe to say that Magma Dragon's statement is referring to teleport.

Immersion makes more sense considering the context of xdive and its world view

Zero questioning himself if the recovery function saved him already implies it being able of regenerates him at the very least.

and hes wrong, he was just saved, so you cant assume his recovery function at that level, theres not a single showing of a normal charatcer broken down to a torso in the x series that has repaired without help.

Isoc repairing Zero doesn’t add up—why would he repair him just to let him roam free, while being fine w/ only his DNA?

Wily wants Zero to prove himself as the best robot and to that hes ultimately better then Dr Lights ultimate creation X. Thats why Isoc gets so happy if Zero defeats High Max instead of X, and when he leaves Isocs body he cheers on Zero as the strongest robot. Its also the explanation since hes the ONLY one in the verse that knows him from the inside out, a feat not even dr light is capable of, and can easily stop and capture Zero at any time.

 

[AlloyAmi]

Already addressed these anti-feats earlier in this CRT, but quick recap:
X4, X8, Z1 = just stage gimmicks.

That all canonically exist in the building of the world and narrative. X4 is a training system set up for Cyber Peacock to test the capabilities of X and Zero which is mentioned both in books and the narratives. X8 is again, training systems established for hunters to train with which is also mentioned in text. Zero 1 is a literal narrative point before the stage starts where Hidden Phantom set up bombs that will blow up aftr a timer and you have to escape or else youll die.

X3 is a time gimmick for drama—30s escape timer ≠ X actually needing 30s to leave (even if, travel speed ≠ combat speed).

This is just dismissing the showing without an actual debunk and still exists as a narrative event that vile felt could threaten him. It shows that they are still limited by time, if their perceptions were that high it wouldnt be a threat or limitation to begin with.

Z4 is the only semi-valid one, but imo it’s just inconsistency, since it’d double as an AP anti-feat. Zero dying to a city-level weapon just doesn’t add up.

Its not an inconsistency if beyond finite speed isnt consistent to begin with. And zero died to weils self destruction, with self destruction being a consistently lethal force in the mega man series. There is not anti feat here.

X5... sure? That’s just blatant PIS at its worst. Also, a character can have finite travel speed but still have infinite combat speed, or smth along those lines.

How is it Pis if they consistently are limited by time.

Infinite speed = crossing infinite distance in finite time or finite distance in 0 time. This doesn’t really contradict that logic. Also, plenty of characters have infinite speed or better and still get hit by Time Manip—it just depends on whether they have resistance or not.

Never used time manip as an argument nor do i care about other verses, but mega man is a verse consistently bound by time and Zero at his very peak in Zero 4 still shows this.

 

[AlloyAmi]

I have the same opinions as Ami and Scorpius

But now that i think about Immeasurable, why do we just cap the feat of Techno/Sigma rewriting the Mother Computer as just MFTL+? As already accepted in the profiles and the current scaling, they are affecting whole timelines in their entirety. I shouldn't need to explain this but timelines/space-times are infinite 4-D constructs that contain past, present and future. MFTL+ is only treating space, and not the fact this feat is literally affecting the entirety of whole timelines, which is why the feat is 2-C. This is supported by how the feat is described as instant in the MM&MMX OCW.

something something wiki standard check ryukos profile from kill la kill if. either way would be a huge outlier if treated as so

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Is there anything for Zero's intelligence?

 

[TyranoDoom30]

something something wiki standard check ryukos profile from kill la kill if. either way would be a huge outlier if treated as so

From what i've seen the mechanics of that feat is different from the one from Xtreme, so i don't think it's the best equivalent. I've asked about this type of feat one time and it got Infinite bare minimum. Plus, i disagree it would be an outlier as there's no real straight anti-feat. These characters are already MFTL+ bare minimum, so i don't think non-existent in actual lore gameplay timers matters anything here. No author, let alone one who has zero slick of idea about our speed ratings, is going to know the fact that MFTL+ or higher characters shouldn't take seconds to finish something up. Like, if they were meant to be portrayed actually straight up that fast accurately, you might as well throw stakes and the plot out of the window.

There's also the very important distinction between combat and movement speed. A character can throw and react to attacks a billion times FTL yet his movement be slower than that.

Irregardless of the mechanics of the anti-feats, this is still a feat involving an entire timeline. If anything, we can just ask staff about it.

 

[TheHedgememe]

Is there anything for Zero's intelligence?

Zero's intelligence isn't covered in OP, so, no. Not as far as I'm aware.

 

[Crimson_cordx]

Sorry for the late reply, i was correcting a calc.

That all canonically exist in the building of the world and narrative. X4 is a training system set up for Cyber Peacock to test the capabilities of X and Zero which is mentioned both in books and the narratives. X8 is again, training systems established for hunters to train with which is also mentioned in text. Zero 1 is a literal narrative point before the stage starts where Hidden Phantom set up bombs that will blow up aftr a timer and you have to escape or else youll die.

There's something that says that the X4 or X8 time challenges are canon? Ur answer just restates the stages theme, not that time challenges aren’t stage gimmicks
Even if u take context, it’s just gameplay stuff for players, not smth Hunters actually deal with. Still doesn’t clash w/ infinite speed — just means they can scale/adjust speed to meet determines conditions

Its not an inconsistency if beyond finite speed isnt consistent to begin with. And zero died to weils self destruction, with self destruction being a consistently lethal force in the mega man series. There is not anti feat here.

Eh… no? Script says it’s a chain reaction, not self-destruction

How is it Pis if they consistently are limited by time.

The “inconsistencies” are just stage gimmicks, game mechanics, or plot stuff.
X5 is still an issue even if u scale the verse to MHS+.

Never used time manip as an argument nor do i care about other verses, but mega man is a verse consistently bound by time and Zero at his very peak in Zero 4 still shows this.

I think u didn’t see the context of this reply.

 

[Crimson_cordx]

Is there anything for Zero's intelligence?

Not in this CRT

 

[Crimson_cordx]

This is just dismissing the showing without an actual debunk and still exists as a narrative event that vile felt could threaten him.

Vile constantly underestimates X, so using him as proof is weak at best.

It shows that they are still limited by time, if their perceptions were that high it wouldnt be a threat or limitation to begin with.

And like I said before, a character can have finite travel speed but still have infinite combat speed or other stuff

However, a char have to go from A to B is not a anti-feat, Sonic constantly goes A to B on time for the some reward, that don't nuke his infinite speed. It’s a too strict standard to apply only to Mega Man

 

[Crimson_cordx]

Only their base abilities would apply, Xdive is everything they can do in the canon + more which is again, why utterly useless characters can all of sudden do waymore.

Teleport is just a generic ability across the whole franchise, so i don't see something against the ideia that is the same hax

and its very clear their stats should be higher significantly considering they scale to the admins of the verse in this state.

Again, that’s stats, not abilities

 

[AguilaR202]

I would just ask Migue79 who has overall better knowledge of feats in the verse to compile more definitive proof and a more cohesive thread about inf speed.

IMO Profiles deserve some more updates about their abilities/hax and mechanics because they are barebones compared to how actually useful they are in games.