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Champion of Midgard: The Thor Odinson MegaCRT

I mean no offense but have people actually read through the Varies blog? It's filled with non-evidence. This isn't a varies statement, it's just saying he's tired, and this is him just focusing to avoid mind control (which is just like, something you can do in Marvel). This isn't Thor powering up but simply exploiting superior speed and skill against an opponent he's tacitly acknowledging as worth using those traits against. This is saying that taking a hit with your guard down is worse than taking it with your guard up, which is objectively a normal thing that'd apply to anyone. This is Thor fighting against mind control. Nothing here implies that Thor's willpower is instrumental to him physically withstanding his ordeal rather than just being able to endure the pain, this isn't actually a feat of Thor overpowering a stronger foe but just snatching the gem from his chest, this is just showing that Thor can attack faster with Mjolnir than his bare hands (it doesn't even imply that willpower is part of the equation), this is Thor fighting better when he isn't self-conflicted (duh?), this is Quicksand, a High 8-C character, never having stood a chance to begin with. This is Thor saying EVERYONE can do anything in an inspiring speech and we're pretending it's evidence for his power fluctuating by literal infinities.

All the instances of Thor just... locking in and winning a fight he was losing are standard heroic determination-type stuff. Call it adrenaline, focus or whatever, it is not in the slightest evidence for a Varies mechanism of such massive proportions. And suddenly the massive size of the thread just kind of turns into bloat. Yeah, obviously Thor holds back, this is very consistent. He obviously has some manner of Willpower-based Empowerment (though a lot of the emotion stuff is simply him holding back or being so emotionally distressed he can't fight proper, rather than his actual power level fluctuating... there's also a few showings of unworthy Thor being weaker which is just a different thing), but 100 instances of him pulling his punches against someone well below even his currently accepted weight class aren't going to make Low 1-A base Thor any more consistent than it is. Do we really need to bloat a big blog with pointless information like "sometimes he doesn't fight" and dozens of scans of him not using his full power? Thor can easily beat Bi-Beast, Hyde, Loki, Black Bolt, The Thing? ... Obviously, they're 5-B and he's 3-C. Is him not ripping off Frank Castle's head or not vaporizing some random civilians really evidence of anything besides him not being a psychopath? Come on.

Speaking of bloat, plenty of feats are just... listed more than once. Thor landing a hit on Mongoose, Thor tanking a hit from the star cannon, Thor stomping Bi-Beast or Hyde, Thor taking out War Machine... they're just on the blog more than once.

Worse than a lot of the examples being bunk there is a critical issue in the logic here. Thor's peak status isn't some mythically rare and unachievable thing that all of his anti-feats and limiting showings are bunk. He can literally go from his usual state to max power in the span of one attack, and he's perfectly willing to use that full power against any foe he deems it worthwhile to use it against, he says it himself that he's willing to lend Earth his full power if the need comes, even in the middle of a city, even against fairly unimpressive threats. So what this thread is actually pushing for, which is to say that the idea that Thor is functionally unbound by his anti-feats and any of his limit showings can be written off as him not using his full power, is not actually acceptable. Thor can and has used his full power any time it was necessary and that is inherently going to include many of the times he actually lost (or struggled to win) a fight, usually to people well below Low 1-A.
 
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Hmm. Armorchompy seems to make some very good points here.

What revisions do you think are warranted based on this thread then? 🙏
 
My personal opinion is that Thor's usual tier can't be completely unbound from what we currently list as 3-C/High 3-A, and I don't think he actually Varies in his base power state. Obviously he holds back and if we want to say nobody can scale to him unless he's explicitly or implicitly going all-out, that's also fine. The 5-B tier was always a little bit silly, he holds back he doesn't limit himself to a certain specific tier. I'm also fine with him having Willpower-based Empowerment but I don't know if it going as high as Low 1-A is consistent.
 
Thank you for your reply. I meant what additions and revisions should be made to Thor's current page based on this? 🙏
 
That's what I said, I think removing the 5-B tier is fine and giving thor a higher Empowerment-based tier is okay. But also I'm just spitballing basically, I only really disagree with base Low 1-A thor

EDIT: I also think it's good to let OP reply before we get carried away
 
Okay. Thanks again. 🙏
 
Armorchompy said:
He can literally go from his usual state to max power in the span of one attack, and he's perfectly willing to use that full power against any foe he deems it worthwhile to use it against, he says it himself that he's willing to lend Earth his full power if the need comes, even on Earth, even against fairly unimpressive threats. So what this thread is actually pushing for, which is to say that the idea that Thor is functionally unbound by his anti-feats and any of his limit showings can be written off as him not using his full power, is not actually acceptable. Thor can and has used his full power any time it was necessary and that is inherently going to include many of the times he actually lost a fight, usually to people well below Low 1-A.
Click to expand...
Your first scan doesn’t say he wasn’t holding back, the second two scans are just him getting annoyed with villains and then not holding back to stomp them which doesn’t prove that he wasn’t holding back in any instances except those specific moments that were explicitly the only times he didn’t hold back against those guys, the fourth scan doesn’t say he gives earth his full power it just says he’s powerful, your fifth scan is pretty much the same stuff as the second and third scans
 
Rgerdeena said:
He’s adding 3 abilities, he did say on discord that Thor’s P&A is surprisingly good so I think that’s why there’s not a whole lot of stuff being added to it
Click to expand...
Well, I expanded on it myself some time ago, but it is far from perfect. 🙏
 
Rgerdeena said:
Your first scan doesn’t say he wasn’t holding back, the second two scans are just him getting annoyed with villains and then not holding back to stomp them
Click to expand...
"Over the years I have hesitated to strike with my full might [...] That was a mistake I will rectify right right now" "In past encounters, I have hesitated on loosing my full fury against you, I will not make that mistake again.

He is verbatim saying he's going all out. My argument here is he can and will do it at the drop of a hat whenever he feels he needs to and this proves it, and him going from no damage to a one-shot just by trying a little bit is support.
Rgerdeena said:
the fourth scan doesn’t say he gives earth his full power it just says he’s powerful
Click to expand...
Obviously if he's willing to help out Earth whenever he's needed he means actually help, not arbitrarily provide just an infinitesimal portion of his strength. Also we know he goes all out plenty of times just off scans I quoted and almost all of them take place on Earth.
 
The_Impress said:
These are the characters I want you to address scaling for, ig:
  • Galactus Low-End
  • Iceman's 1-A
  • Iron Man Armors: Model 22 and 72
  • Kang's Forcefields
  • Knull
  • High end Mindless Ones
  • Seth
  • Pluto
Click to expand...
1. Galactus I think will need an exhaustive tiering revision like done here for his true starving states. I don't have a ton of non-Thor scans for him. His power level in Thor 160-161 wasn't explicitly clarified apart from that he was looking for Ego to see if he was edible (no surprise there, Galactus is always looking for food), with Thor causing him pain with a hammer blow, deciding regular strikes weren't enough, and then almost killing him with a God Blast. Here Thor staggers Galactus without visible damage and then is overpowered, but how fed Galactus was in this story was unknown as he was teleported in from across the timestream. Wounded Thor staggers and damages Galactus, but Galactus' power level in this story was again not explicitly stated apart from his interest in the World Seed, which could potentially sate his hunger forever. A hungry Galactus' forcefield deflects a (presumably serious) Mjolnir throw and could indicate that Galan's forcefields scale above his hungry physicals. Here, Thor's energy blast doesn't harm a Galactus who was hungry but then consumed the entirety of his own ship for a power boost (moderately fed?). Here Thor takes blasts from a hungry Galactus and is shown to be uninjured a few pages later.
2. Iceman's 1-A is kind of a mess in terms of how it relates to Thor. The story that his Black Winter feat took place in was supposed to be post Herald of None, but the Thor design here was Jason Aaron's Incomplete All-Father Thor that stopped existing once the Black Winter storyline began. I'm fine with Iceman still getting his 1-A, but I don't think enough attention was paid by the writer to the Thor timeline/canonicity for it to be useful for any Thor scaling.
3. Iron Man Model 22 explicitly scales to Complete All-Father Thor due to being powered by the Odinforce. I'd recommend "At least Low 1-A, likely 1-A"
4. Iron Man Model 72 should also be "At least Low 1-A, likely 1-A". It was shown to be able to harm Starship Hulk that survived (albeit was injured by) Mjolnir throws from Complete All-Father Thor, although the armor itself was inferior to Hulk or Thor.
5. Kang's forcefields should get a "At least Low 1-A, possibly 1-A" rating, as Thor is repeatedly shown to require his full power to pierce the shields, with fights going out of their way to show that Kang only survives encounters with Thor because of the shields.
6. Knull should straight-up be 1-A, as he fought against Herald of None Thor that should be stronger than the same Incomplete All-Father Thor who withstood attacks from and overpowered an amped Galactus in a beam struggle. Herald of None Thor should also be 1-A without a Low 1-A end.
7. I went through my scans and didn't find any examples of Mindless Ones harming Thor, so I don't believe they should scale for now. It's possible I missed something though.
8. Seth has no reason for High 3-A that wouldn't just be Low 1-A to 1-A. He seems to be inferior to Thor in the majority of contexts but not by a lot, and sometimes has an advantage.
9. Pluto as a Hell Lord should be in the Low 1-A to 1-A range. Physically he seems slightly inferior to Thor and wasn't able to notably harm an enraged Thor.
 
Armorchompy said:
My personal opinion is that Thor's usual tier can't be completely unbound from what we currently list as 3-C/High 3-A, and I don't think he actually Varies in his base power state. Obviously he holds back and if we want to say nobody can scale to him unless he's explicitly or implicitly going all-out, that's also fine. The 5-B tier was always a little bit silly, he holds back he doesn't limit himself to a certain specific tier. I'm also fine with him having Willpower-based Empowerment but I don't know if it going as high as Low 1-A is consistent.
Click to expand...
I definitely should have clarified on the Variability blog. Most of the posts are demonstrating that he very rarely uses his full power against opponents and so his output is variable rather than his base stats being variable. Him being Low 1-A to 1-A when not holding back is pretty darn consistent, though, with more fights and feats in those tiers overall than in any other tier (nearly three hundred examples of Low 1-A or higher vs 100 examples of what we currently have as High 3-A, with a significant proportion of those High 3-A fights showing him as stomping people in those tiers when he stops holding back. Putting Thor as a lower tier because he holds himself back to those levels until he cuts loose--at which point he usually wins handily--doesn't appear to be the most parsimonious solution. I'm totally fine with just clarifying that characters don't scale to him unless it's explicit he's not holding back rather than adding a Varies mechanic, and I definitely should have been more clear about what I meant by that on the blog. Thanks for catching that!

Edit: It would be kind of like having Spider-Man at "9-A, up to High 8-C when not holding back" when he's not actually limiting his own stats to 9-A, and also if he had triple the amount of High 8-C feats that he did of 9-A feats.
 
Entity said:
just saw it, this is not Devil Hulk
Click to expand...
Was this the Joe Fixit fight? Good catch.
I'm starting to see the argument being made recently that Hulk personas shouldn't actually be split into different keys since they all end up at the same peak rage power anyway. I kind of get that now
 
For the Amadeus scaling: the Cho that defeated bloodlusted Unworthy Thor was one where the Hulk persona was completely in control, so it would not scale to the vast majority of Cho's showings.
 
I haven't really gotten a chance to read up the full discussion, but I know there were plans to removed the 1-A stats; and that something like High 1-B to Low 1-A at most was the Skyfather keys. Though based on a few comments I skimmed over, I agree that while Thor could technically hold back to the point where his stats appear to be more on par with Captain America or Spider-Man, a random mid end 5-B just seems pointless. A serious base Thor is more High 3-A, though 3-C can sometimes be a reasonable mid end. And iirc, most of his High 1-B to Low 1-A base key stuff is for things like God Blast, a specific Ultimate technique that he cannot really use regularly. Though, there was also the lifting of Yggdrasil, but those were also done having to nearly sacrifice all his might and used similar "Hidden energy" that God Blast uses.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I haven't really gotten a chance to read up the full discussion, but I know there were plans to removed the 1-A stats; and that something like High 1-B to Low 1-A at most was the Skyfather keys. Though based on a few comments I skimmed over, I agree that while Thor could technically hold back to the point where his stats appear to be more on par with Captain America or Spider-Man, a random mid end 5-B just seems pointless. A serious base Thor is more High 3-A, though 3-C can sometimes be a reasonable mid end. And iirc, most of his High 1-B to Low 1-A base key stuff is for things like God Blast, a specific Ultimate technique that he cannot really use regularly. Though, there was also the lifting of Yggdrasil, but those were also done having to nearly sacrifice all his might and used similar "Hidden energy" that God Blast uses.
Click to expand...
I'd strongly recommend looking through the stat blog. Serious base Thor typically stomps High 3-As, and he doesn't need to use God Blast to reach Low 1-A-1-A. He actually performs most consistently at those levels normally (i.e., when he's not holding back), fighting Skyfather tiers and Hell Lords frequently. 3-C is more of an arbitrary placeholder than anything backed up by the data itself, which demonstrates hundreds of Low 1-A and up stuff for serious base Thor.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I haven't really gotten a chance to read up the full discussion, but I know there were plans to removed the 1-A stats; and that something like High 1-B to Low 1-A at most was the Skyfather keys. Though based on a few comments I skimmed over, I agree that while Thor could technically hold back to the point where his stats appear to be more on par with Captain America or Spider-Man, a random mid end 5-B just seems pointless. A serious base Thor is more High 3-A, though 3-C can sometimes be a reasonable mid end. And iirc, most of his High 1-B to Low 1-A base key stuff is for things like God Blast, a specific Ultimate technique that he cannot really use regularly. Though, there was also the lifting of Yggdrasil, but those were also done having to nearly sacrifice all his might and used similar "Hidden energy" that God Blast uses.
Click to expand...
the 1-A has already been removed from Skyfathers
 
The_Impress said:
  • Ultron is a genuinely terrible page, it composites so many keys, but regardless: Alot of his feats are set on earth itself, which as we know is a region where Thor holds back (and these are Avengers run so the collateral logic also checks out). This one also just, has the jank of Wanda amping his power reserves.
  • Thanos is another sucky page, but it straight up requires a rework. He'd likely end up Low 1-A still off of Silver Surfer or smth, but I would like to note Infinity #6 takes place on Earth, so that is something.
Click to expand...
I've been looking at improving their pages. I'm gathering more feats (both are extremely bare-bones with justifications) and more keys to better represent them. As for Ultron being on Earth, personally I don't think that affects the scaling. As far as I've seen from my readings so far, Thor has literally never hurt him. Ultron said that even if Thor were to use all the powers at his disposal, he still couldn't hurt him. Thor also said that he had no way of hurting Ultron. As for AP, Thor thought that he would die when he was preparing to fight Ultron. But yeah, his keys are absolutely awful.
 
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ObberGobb said:
1-A Skyfathers will have to be brought back, since they have scaling and downscaling from currently 1-A characters, greatly upscale the 1-A feats of Amora and Eric Masterson, and have 1-A feats of their own.
Click to expand...
That'll happen as well for sure. It'll probably just have to be its own thread
 
Since characters like Ultron and Thanos have such poor profiles right now, do you think them scaling to Thor should be put on hold so that it will be better justified in fixed profiles?
 
ObberGobb said:
Since characters like Ultron and Thanos have such poor profiles right now, do you think them scaling to Thor should be put on hold so that it will be better justified in fixed profiles?
Click to expand...
I think those two in particular have some of the most solid upscaling to serious Thor out of anyone, so we should be fine to keep the justifications. The thing is that only True Adamantium Ultron actually scales, since it's well established that Thor can oneshot secondary adamantium Ultrons if he's actually going all out. Thanos consistently matches base Thor and has an edge over him even in cases where Thor doesn't have reason to hold back.
 
NaturalDestroyer said:
I think those two in particular have some of the most solid upscaling to serious Thor out of anyone, so we should be fine to keep the justifications. The thing is that only True Adamantium Ultron actually scales, since it's well established that Thor can oneshot secondary adamantium Ultrons if he's actually going all out. Thanos consistently matches base Thor and has an edge over him even in cases where Thor doesn't have reason to hold back.
Click to expand...
Do you have scans of Thor one-shotting Ultron? You might have some that I missed that could be helpful for my Ultron research
 
NaturalDestroyer said:
I definitely should have clarified on the Variability blog. Most of the posts are demonstrating that he very rarely uses his full power against opponents and so his output is variable rather than his base stats being variable. Him being Low 1-A to 1-A when not holding back is pretty darn consistent, though, with more fights and feats in those tiers overall than in any other tier (nearly three hundred examples of Low 1-A or higher vs 100 examples of what we currently have as High 3-A, with a significant proportion of those High 3-A fights showing him as stomping people in those tiers when he stops holding back.
Click to expand...
Sure but those people aren't exactly all that anyways. My argument here is like, if Thor is so willing to go all out when the situation calls for it (which he is) then I think a lot of his limiting showings, like failing to stop a big threat, struggling against a really powerful opponent in a prolonged fight, losing an important battle, can probably be assumed to be him trying his best and still failing because if he's so willing to go max power in relatively easy fights he ends up stomping, he's probably gonna have done that in long fights he loses. So I disagree with L1-A being consistent for his base form.

I will say, a lot of your evidence can also be interpreted as some form of Empowerment. Like Thor locks in, goes all-out and unleashes more power than he'd physically be able to in a relaxed state. I wouldn't be as opposed to say, "3-C/High 3-A, up to Low 1-A with Empowerment", as I am to it being the base tier, because I think the latter option is going to make a lot of things pretty weird.

(I'll note I haven't actually looked through the tier 1 feats yet, I'm mostly focusing on the justification for Varies)
 
The CRT seems fine for the most part (although I am iffy on solidly Low 1-A Base Thor, leaning to Armor's idea on empowerment).

Though, the scan for Thor being a threat to a significant portion of Universal Infinity and Eternity isn't working for me. Is it bugged?
 
Armorchompy said:
Sure but those people aren't exactly all that anyways. My argument here is like, if Thor is so willing to go all out when the situation calls for it (which he is) then I think a lot of his limiting showings, like failing to stop a big threat, struggling against a really powerful opponent in a prolonged fight, losing an important battle, can probably be assumed to be him trying his best and still failing because if he's so willing to go max power in relatively easy fights he ends up stomping, he's probably gonna have done that in long fights he loses. So I disagree with L1-A being consistent for his base form.

I will say, a lot of your evidence can also be interpreted as some form of Empowerment. Like Thor locks in, goes all-out and unleashes more power than he'd physically be able to in a relaxed state. I wouldn't be as opposed to say, "3-C/High 3-A, up to Low 1-A with Empowerment", as I am to it being the base tier, because I think the latter option is going to make a lot of things pretty weird.

(I'll note I haven't actually looked through the tier 1 feats yet, I'm mostly focusing on the justification for Varies)
Click to expand...
Gotcha, I get what you're saying. I'm totally open to a compromise to address antifeats, because they definitely exist even if they're a small percentage. I just want to make certain that if he gets a "casual/holding back" key in addition to Low 1-A/1-A, it's made clear on the profile that he has far more feats in tier 1 than he does in tier 3 (more than double, I believe). Additionally, any lower key will likely be High 3-A at the lowest given how (from what I understand) the various universe shaking feats used to originally create the 3-C Heralds are now High 3-A. That tier in itself might be a placeholder anyway.

I could see a "High 3-A. Low 1-A to 1-A when fighting all out/at full power" being reasonable. Again, in the majority of Thor's own stories, him fighting at Skyfather levels or very near to them of extremely normal, so pretending that he's usually far beneath that when the actual feats don't reflect him consistently being that weak might not be the best solution.

Again, that lower tier will likely be flexible and very much depend on where Heralds and Beta Ray Bill end up. I'm open to hearing your thoughts on this and I certainly don't want to just push through upgrades without thoughtful discussion. I've put nearly a year into this so there's no reason to not listen carefully to what you have to say.
 
HenshinIntervention said:
The CRT seems fine for the most part (although I am iffy on solidly Low 1-A Base Thor, leaning to Armor's idea on empowerment).

Though, the scan for Thor being a threat to a significant portion of Universal Infinity and Eternity isn't working for me. Is it bugged?
Click to expand...
Hmmm. I'll look at it when I have my laptop and see if I can fix it. Thanks for catching that!
 
NaturalDestroyer said:
Gotcha, I get what you're saying. I'm totally open to a compromise to address antifeats, because they definitely exist even if they're a small percentage. I just want to make certain that if he gets a "casual/holding back" key in addition to Low 1-A/1-A, it's made clear on the profile that he has far more feats in tier 1 than he does in tier 3 (more than double, I believe). Additionally, any lower key will likely be High 3-A at the lowest given how (from what I understand) the various universe shaking feats used to originally create the 3-C Heralds are now High 3-A. That tier in itself might be a placeholder anyway.
Click to expand...
NaturalDestroyer said:
I could see a "High 3-A. Low 1-A to 1-A when fighting all out/at full power" being reasonable. Again, in the majority of Thor's own stories, him fighting at Skyfather levels or very near to them of extremely normal, so pretending that he's usually far beneath that when the actual feats don't reflect him consistently being that weak might not be the best solution.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't really see it as a "holding back" tier because as you said him holding back at one fixed tier doesn't make sense, he's held back at like 9-C tiers after all. This probably means that whatever tier 3 feats come from him or other L1-A people probably mandate rescaling.

But yeah I don't mind it being like, a "max power" rating I suppose? I just disagree with Thor being L1-A on like, a random Sunday, it makes more sense if he needs specific effort and circumstance to tap into it. I'm looking at the google doc you made (enjoyable read btw, very well fleshed out. funny to see Thor get knocked on his ass by a landmine lol) and there's a handful of instances of stray hits knocking him out - I get the idea is he's holding back his durability but that isn't as consistent as holding back AP.
NaturalDestroyer said:
Again, that lower tier will likely be flexible and very much depend on where Heralds and Beta Ray Bill end up. I'm open to hearing your thoughts on this and I certainly don't want to just push through upgrades without thoughtful discussion. I've put nearly a year into this so there's no reason to not listen carefully to what you have to say.
Click to expand...
I appreciate it. Also sorry if I came off as rude in my opening post, I'm realizing I probably went a bit too hard on it.
 
Armorchompy said:
I wouldn't really see it as a "holding back" tier because as you said him holding back at one fixed tier doesn't make sense, he's held back at like 9-C tiers after all. This probably means that whatever tier 3 feats come from him or other L1-A people probably mandate rescaling.

But yeah I don't mind it being like, a "max power" rating I suppose? I just disagree with Thor being L1-A on like, a random Sunday, it makes more sense if he needs specific effort and circumstance to tap into it. I'm looking at the google doc you made (enjoyable read btw, very well fleshed out. funny to see Thor get knocked on his ass by a landmine lol) and there's a handful of instances of stray hits knocking him out - I get the idea is he's holding back his durability but that isn't as consistent as holding back AP.

I appreciate it. Also sorry if I came off as rude in my opening post, I'm realizing I probably went a bit too hard on it.
Click to expand...
Yeah I see what you mean. The hard part with having a lower tier is it's almost impossible to determine how much he's holding back, so we don't know where to put his lower showings, especially accounting for how they make up a relatively small percentage of his fights within a given tier (for the High 3-A example, he has 92-96% success rates of either harming or being unharmed by characters in this tier). As we already discussed, 5-B is far too low and 3-C isn't really based on anything anymore, so that would have to be rescaled from scratch like you mentioned.

I'm glad you liked the doc! I had a ton of fun making it (the Classic Thor days were so weird from a scaling perspective. One issue a WWII landmine is a deadly threat and then the next he no-sells the force of an entire universe in his face lol). The issue with the idea of Thor needing to access some higher power to be Low 1-A is that that's the level he's usually at in the vast majority of his own stories, without needing an emotional amp or break his limits or anything. It's not treated as at all weird or out of the ordinary when he does well or at least holds his own against Odin, Seth, Jormungand, Surtur, Mephisto, Fenris, Zeus, Hela, etc, many of whom he has fought and matched or overpowered repeatedly over the years. To borrow your adroit phraseology, if it's a Thor-centric story, he probably is Low 1-A on a random Sunday, just given how that's the caliber of villains he's up against almost constantly.

Also no sweat about your original post! I think I was too defensive, so that's my bad. I think together we can come up with the best possible version of this proposal, although the "lower tier" will likely depend on a total Herald rescaling.
 
NaturalDestroyer said:
Yeah I see what you mean. The hard part with having a lower tier is it's almost impossible to determine how much he's holding back, so we don't know where to put his lower showings, especially accounting for how they make up a relatively small percentage of his fights within a given tier (for the High 3-A example, he has 92-96% success rates of either harming or being unharmed by characters in this tier). As we already discussed, 5-B is far too low and 3-C isn't really based on anything anymore, so that would have to be rescaled from scratch like you mentioned.
Click to expand...
Yeah whatever tier it is it would be... whatever replaces 3-C.
NaturalDestroyer said:
The issue with the idea of Thor needing to access some higher power to be Low 1-A is that that's the level he's usually at in the vast majority of his own stories, without needing an emotional amp or break his limits or anything. It's not treated as at all weird or out of the ordinary when he does well or at least holds his own against Odin, Seth, Jormungand, Surtur, Mephisto, Fenris, Zeus, Hela, etc, many of whom he has fought and matched or overpowered repeatedly over the years. To borrow your adroit phraseology, if it's a Thor-centric story, he probably is Low 1-A on a random Sunday, just given how that's the caliber of villains he's up against almost constantly.
Click to expand...
I'll have to look through the feats list before agreeing to tier 1 being consistent, but there is still a decent amount of instances of him being hurt by High 3-A people, whereas most of the Low 1-A stuff seems to come from kind of internal logic? Like they're repeated instances but it's the same argument of "Gods are Low 1-A" rather than multiple unrelated feats or different avenues of scaling. So I'm not sure the numbers are showing the whole picture.

By "higher power" I don't necessarily mean something too complicated, I just feel like any kind of mechanism that makes it so he isn't at that tier all the time (besides holding back because then he could just stop doing that and win instantly) makes a high tier much more consistent. And I feel like you do have a decent amount of evidence that Thor actively makes himself stronger by drawing from his willpower & such, which could be that.
 
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Antvasima
Antvasima
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