Name: Veldanava Key Division — Part 2

[Astral_Trinity439]

I’m not the most knowledgeable about Slime, but from what I understand, God should have Nep 1 outright instead of being limited.

Iirc I was kinda not available (banned) when that downgrade went through soo

 

[TheHyperGuy]

Guess Who's Back... Back Again?​

So there's a huge issue with the part below.

Not Dead
Spoiler: All-One still exists

The stuff from vol 4-6 is just regarding Luminas. She is literally called God/Goddess on multiple occasions (considering the time it takes these CRT's to be accepted, I had to rush so I only grabbed one scan) and has the attribute of light/holy. She creates contracts, even the anime is up to that point, to allow people to use her power. So "All-One" still existing because of that, is just a total mislead.

The world is cruel, but it gives everything. That is the world created by Veldanava. Veldanava could not endure the loneliness of being the "All-One."

Therefore, in order to dispel boredom, he brought forth the world. In that process, younger siblings who share the same origin as Veldanava, the "Dragon Species", were born. With the "Dragon Species" becoming four, the world, which had been chaotic, became stable. Order was set in place.

Doesn't the bolded part completely dismantle All-One being separate from Veldanava? It makes the clear claim that Veldanava at the beginning of the world at the very least here, is All-one. And was called so multiple times after creation too, so it's consistently stating he is All-One

This means that theoretically, the merge of Ivarage and Veldanava is the All-One, right? But no, this is wrong because it was corrected later in the last Volume. In Volume 23 Chapter 5, at the end of the fight between Luvelage (Veldanava + Ivarage + Lucia), it was said (and confirmed) that the Veldanava was never the All-One, and neither is Ivarage or Luvelage (Fusion):

So this being the case, not only is never stated, the evidence here actually helps prove that Veldanava was "All-One"

This is from the prior CRT stating that pre-creation Veldanava should have a different key as Post-creation. I actually agree, but this also means that Pre-creation is "omniscient and Omnipotent" which means that is "All-One", since that is to return to both of those things. Veldanava being that very thing pre-creation, means he was "All-One".

If you disagree with this, then that means there is no difference from pre-creation to post-creation for that to be the case, but since that was already agreed upon, there is no backtracking. So "All-One" = "Omnipotence and Omniscience" which is what Luverage's goal was, to become all-powerful and all-knowing which would be "All-One" the only reason why she couldn't is because Veldanava lost both of those qualities when he lost Void Collapse. Thus making him a contradiction, and that can never regain those qualities, not only that but a being that can change and many more contradictions added onto that. Since both beings are subject to change now, they cannot be All-One any longer from that point.

This is besides the point that "All-One" was never indicated to exist after Veldanava created the world, and since the whole "God (Great Holy Spirit)" was really luminas, then that defeats the idea that there was one still existing.

The only other claims regarding it still existing, could equally just refer to Veldanava discarding his powers. There's really no reason to use that, especially now by itself, as supporting evidence for an entirely separate being, All One, to still exist.

Conclusion;​

Veldanava in his Pre-creation state, was a whole/complete version of himself and was Omniscient and Omnipotent, which is all the qualities that All-One is stated to be, by yourself as well. He is even called All-One by others and himself, supporting that fact. Ivarage was a part of a whole with Veldanava and was also apart of this "All-One" prior to Veldanava losing his omnipotence and Omniscience. And lastly, Veldanava just can't go back to All-One, not that he never was.

Nothing really contradicts this being the case, and is fully supported by the evidence provided and what I provided.

I won't go too much more in depth since I don't think I need to, nor would I need to discuss the other points as all that depends on Veldanava and All-One being proved to be separated beings.

I may or may not respond too much to this, only points that actually matter and refute the evidence I brought, as to not clog up this thread.

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

Guess Who's Back... Back Again?

Let me guess?
Were you training in the mountains with Master Shifu?

I will reply later.

 

[TheHyperGuy]

Were you training in the mountains with Master Shifu?

Better than what I had in mind

 

[Bahaha]

yeah no I disagree that All-One didn't have a will when the story presents All-One as a singular perfect being existing solely as a will.

 

[TheHyperGuy]

yeah no U don't agree that All-One didn't have a will when the story presents All-One as a singular perfect being solely a will

Assuming this was aimed towards me, cause I fail to see how this refutes my points.

Even then, Why can't that describe Pre-Creation Veldanava? When that was how Veldanava called himself as was called by narrative?

 

[Ultimuru]

Let me guess?
Were you training in the mountains with Master Shifu?

I will reply later.

Should I buy popcorn for 10+ pages thread?

 

[Elizhaa]

The stuff from vol 4-6 is just regarding Luminas. She is literally called God/Goddess on multiple occasions (considering the time it takes these CRT's to be accepted, I had to rush so I only grabbed one scan) and has the attribute of light/holy. She creates contracts, even the anime is up to that point, to allow people to use her power. So "All-One" still existing because of that, is just a total mislead.

Not quite true as god is not meant to be literal sense or conceptual sense but people who could manipulate spiritrons; they can also use the worship to grew stronger like Rimuru later and it is related to the reason why Luminas, a demon lord, wanted to be worship like a god (Volume 10 Chapter 2). Most cases from volume 4 to 6 are not really for Veldanava.

---

I will reply on the other cases later.

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

Assuming this was aimed towards me, cause I fail to see how this refutes my points.

Even then, Why can't that describe Pre-Creation Veldanava? When that was how Veldanava called himself as was called by narrative?

Because in the last vol Rimuru literally points out that Veldanava and Luvelge have contradictions which contradicts the whole point of the All in one as it exist precisely because they have no contradictions?

 

[Ronaldinhxt1]

Oh, i agree

 

[Bahaha]

Assuming this was aimed towards me, cause I fail to see how this refutes my points.

Even then, Why can't that describe Pre-Creation Veldanava? When that was how Veldanava called himself as was called by narrative?

wasn't towards you, it was towards people saying All-One didn't have a will.

Edit: Also Pre-creation Veldanava couldn't be All-One. It doesn't matter if Veldanava still thought himself to be All-One because All-One didn't have change or contradictions whilst Pre-Creation Veldanava wanted/brought change and contradictions.

 

[TheHyperGuy]

Not quite true as god is not meant to be literal sense or conceptual sense but people who could manipulate spiritrons; they can also use the worship to grew stronger like Rimuru later and it is related to the reason why Luminas, a demon lord, wanted to be worship like a god (Volume 10 Chapter 2). Most cases from volume 4 to 6 are not really for Veldanava.

Nothing here really refutes my points. In fact it sounds like you agree that it was Luminas that was implied here...

Because in the last vol Rimuru literally points out that Veldanava and Luvelge have contradictions which contradicts the whole point of the All in one as it exist precisely because they have no contradictions?

Cool, that has nothing to do with Pre-creation veldanava nor refutes the points.

Also Pre-creation Veldanava couldn't be All-One. It doesn't matter if Veldanava still thought himself to be All-One because All-One didn't have change or contradictions whilst Pre-Creation Veldanava wanted/brought change and contradictions.

Wanted, but did have change yet. So when He created the cardinal world, change occurred causing a contradiction which led him to lose both omnipotence and omniscience.

 

[Bahaha]

Wanted, but did have change yet. So when He created the cardinal world, change occurred causing a contradiction which led him to lose both omnipotence and omniscience.

You're equating True Dragon Veldanava and Pre-Creation Veldanava. Pre-Creation Veldanava created the Heavenly Star Palace as the first creation before incarnating as a true Dragon. When he awoke in the Palace as a True Dragon he began creating worlds and other beings.
Therefore I really REALLY disagree with your argument if you're stating True Dragon Veldanava=Pre-Creation Veldanava=All-One until the creation of the Cardinal World. Angels and Demons were created before the Cardinal World therefore change and contradictions existed in the world way before the creation of the Cardinal World.

Your timeline of the story doesn't make any sense.

 

[SomebodyData]

we need fourth one

Simple enough. No comment.

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

Simple enough. No comment.

 

[TheHuntsman1001]

I agree with splitting Veldanava's God key from his profile and making it into its own profile. I think it is clear that All-One is separate from Veldanava and from the fusion of Veldanava and Ivarage, and therefore it makes sense for it to have it's own profile instead of just being a key under Veldanava.

Personally I think this is pretty straightforward since the CRT is just to split the profiles, I don't really see a reason to disagree.

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

Simple enough. No comment.

Thanks
Can you tag :

@DarkDragonMedeus
@KingTempest
@Random-Helper323

Thank you !

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Simple enough. No comment.

 

[SomebodyData]

Jokes aside, I don't disagree with the OP. Put me in agree.

Thanks
Can you tag :

@DarkDragonMedeus
@KingTempest
@Random-Helper323

Thank you !

@DarkDragonMedeus
@KingTempest
@Random-Helper323

You've been summoned.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

The larper arrived

Guess Who's Back... Back Again?​

So there's a huge issue with the part below.

The stuff from vol 4-6 is just regarding Luminas. She is literally called God/Goddess on multiple occasions (considering the time it takes these CRT's to be accepted, I had to rush so I only grabbed one scan) and has the attribute of light/holy. She creates contracts, even the anime is up to that point, to allow people to use her power. So "All-One" still existing because of that, is just a total mislead.

This is like saying just because people believe in someone or something as a "god/goddess", it refers to an actual God.

Also, Luminous being a "God" is insofar as that she can wield Spiritons, and for that reason, anyone who can wield Spiritons by themselves can be considered a "God" and a valid subject of faith.

Whether that God is the actual Omnipotent God though, and wheather that faith is directed to the Omnipotent God (Holy Spirit) or a random strong being, that depends on the believer.

Doesn't the bolded part completely dismantle All-One being separate from Veldanava? It makes the clear claim that Veldanava at the beginning of the world at the very least here, is All-one. And was called so multiple times after creation too, so it's consistently stating he is All-One

So this being the case, not only is never stated, the evidence here actually helps prove that Veldanava was "All-One"

Veldanava being called All One in V23 is before the statement that Veldanava has too many contradictions to be the All One. Narrative placement matters.

But based on the world of Death scans, what we CAN say is true tho, is that Veldanava (prime) was a Will born from the Holy Spirit, however because it lacked a body at that time, it did not differentiate itself from its source. That Will later divided into two after conflict of thought, and then manifested. Long after they manifested, when Veldanava created the World, other Wills from the same origin (born from the Holy Spirit) were born. That proves the Holy Spirit still exists.

Why I keep calling it the "holy spirit" instead of "all one"? Because the OP already makes it clear that there are different conceptions of the All One and "Omnipotence".

This is from the prior CRT stating that pre-creation Veldanava should have a different key as Post-creation. I actually agree, but this also means that Pre-creation is "omniscient and Omnipotent" which means that is "All-One", since that is to return to both of those things. Veldanava being that very thing pre-creation, means he was "All-One".

If you disagree with this, then that means there is no difference from pre-creation to post-creation for that to be the case, but since that was already agreed upon, there is no backtracking. So "All-One" = "Omnipotence and Omniscience" which is what Luverage's goal was, to become all-powerful and all-knowing which would be "All-One" the only reason why she couldn't is because Veldanava lost both of those qualities when he lost Void Collapse. Thus making him a contradiction, and that can never regain those qualities, not only that but a being that can change and many more contradictions added onto that. Since both beings are subject to change now, they cannot be All-One any longer from that point.

No? You're forgetting again there are different conceptions of "Omnipotence". Veldanava before creation was so because he could create all skills, not in the same sense as the Holy Spirit (Perfection/Infinity) whose Omnipotence is derived from its nature.

This isn't about backtracking, even that CRT which was accepted, was under the fact that pre creation velda has no relation to the All One. So remind me WHO is backtracking here??

This is besides the point that "All-One" was never indicated to exist after Veldanava created the world, and since the whole "God (Great Holy Spirit)" was really luminas, then that defeats the idea that there was one still existing.

Oh yeahhhh the whole "Still exists/not dead" section in the OP doesn't exist because you"debunked" 1 or 2 scans...

The only other claims regarding it still existing, could equally just refer to Veldanava discarding his powers. There's really no reason to use that, especially now by itself, as supporting evidence for an entirely separate being, All One, to still exist.

This is all unnecessary assumptions and headcanons to a thing that has already been established in the novel. So really, a Hitchen's victim.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Jokes aside, I don't disagree with the OP. Put me in agree.



@DarkDragonMedeus
@KingTempest
@Random-Helper323

You've been summoned.

Peakdata

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

Cool, that has nothing to do with Pre-creation veldanava nor refutes the points.

It does? Veldanava wanted change and the 'All-in-One’ cannot change or have desires thus even Pre-Creation Veldanava was never the All-in-one but a being that emanated from it. The All-in-One never ceases to be, no matter what happens to Veldanava, because the former is changeless.

 

[Bahaha]

The best way to look at this is with Tao. "The Tao gave birth to 1; 1 gave birth to 2; 2 gave birth to 3; and 3 gave birth to everything else." Tao births 1 (unity) which births 2 (duality, Ying and Yang) which births 3 (harmony) and from that everything else comes to be in balance of duality.

All-One here is the 1, the perfect unity undivided state with no differentiation. From this separation occurs (don't know when because no time no change exists yet) and Ivarage and Veldanava manifest from the All-One. Veldanava represents change and all other contradictory desires while Ivarage wants to remain undifferentiated/no change in the All-One. Veldanava "leaps out" of All-One and creates multiplicity then creates reality and other individuals.

At no point were Veldanava and Ivarage All-One but rather beings that emerge from All-One due to separation/differentiation. All-One lacks contradictions but the emergence of Veldanava and Ivarage creates the first contradiction/differentiation (or rather Veldanava and Ivarage are process of differentiation).

The fact that Fuze depicts the fusion of Veldanava and Ivarage (the 2 trying to return to 1) with "ying-yang" imagery and symbolism supports this viewpoint. Their combination does not produce 1 but rather the totality of 2 (ying and yang become duality instead of unity). Of course not everything is 1 to 1 with Tao but you get the picture.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

The best way to look at this is with Tao. "The Tao gave birth to 1; 1 gave birth to 2; 2 gave birth to 3; and 3 gave birth to everything else." Tao births 1 (unity) which births 2 (duality, Ying and Yang) which births 3 (harmony) and from that everything else comes to be in balance of duality.

All-One here is the 1, the perfect unity undivided state with no differentiation. From this separation occurs (don't know when because no time no change exists yet) and Ivarage and Veldanava manifest from the All-One. Veldanava represents change and all other contradictory desires while Ivarage wants to remain undifferentiated/no change in the All-One. Veldanava "leaps out" of All-One and creates multiplicity then creates reality and other individuals.

At no point were Veldanava and Ivarage All-One but rather beings that emerge from All-One due to separation/differentiation. All-One lacks contradictions but the emergence of Veldanava and Ivarage creates the first contradiction/differentiation.

The fact that Fuze depicts the fusion of Veldanava and Ivarage (the 2 trying to return to 1) with "ying-yang" imagery and symbolism supports this viewpoint. Of course not everything is 1 to 1 with Tao but you get the picture.

Tbf this also goes along with Fuse's view in WN, where he pulled the same analogy with the GHS.

 

[Ultimuru]

HyperGuy's reply seems simple enough and changed my mind.

Put on agree with CRT instead of neutral

 

[CJunitilarian]

Agree

 

[Hecky2222]

Hyperguy makes sense here

Agree with thread via Hyperguy reasons.

 

[TheHyperGuy]

You're equating True Dragon Veldanava and Pre-Creation Veldanava.

Never did.

Pre-Creation Veldanava created the Heavenly Star Palace as the first creation before incarnating as a true Dragon

Where the evidence of this?

Therefore I really REALLY disagree with your argument if you're stating True Dragon Veldanava=Pre-Creation Veldanava=All-One until the creation of the Cardinal World.

Never said that. My stance is Pre-creation Veldanava = All-One. Which is all of his power. True Dragon Veldanava is simple after losing his All-One status.

 

[TheHyperGuy]

This is like saying just because people believe in someone or something as a "god/goddess", it refers to an actual God.

Also, Luminous being a "God" is insofar as that she can wield Spiritons, and for that reason, anyone who can wield Spiritons by themselves can be considered a "God" and a valid subject of faith.

Whether that God is the actual Omnipotent God though, and wheather that faith is directed to the Omnipotent God (Holy Spirit) or a random strong being, that depends on the believer.

And in those volumes, Luminas was considered god. So trying to use those volumes to prop up the idea that All-one still exists, is simply misleading the evidence in order to fit the premise, which it cannot. If "God" in those volumes meant anything different, then prove why that would be different.

Veldanava being called All One in V23 is before the statement that Veldanava has too many contradictions to be the All One. Narrative placement matters.

True, but the Contradictions could've occur post-creation, and my premise would still hold. There is no contradictions to my points either. Veldanava created and then caused changed which made him lose his powers therefore not being all-one.

But based on the world of Death scans, what we CAN say is true tho, is that Veldanava (prime) was a Will born from the Holy Spirit, however because it lacked a body at that time, it did not differentiate itself from its source. That Will later divided into two after conflict of thought, and then manifested. Long after they manifested, when Veldanava created the World, other Wills from the same origin (born from the Holy Spirit) were born. That proves the Holy Spirit still exists.

Nothing here is proven in any of the evidence brought forward. This seems like assumptions at most based on limited information.

What evidence brought forward supports this? I never saw anything in this or the prior CRT that actually confirms this being the case. Where is the "Holy Spirit" Cause like I showed, that could refer back to Luminas, as Ciel is saying God=Holy Spirit and I proved that in those volumes Luminas was considered the God/goddess.

Why I keep calling it the "holy spirit" instead of "all one"? Because the OP already makes it clear that there are different conceptions of the All One and "Omnipotence".

The differences honestly don't matter if the foundation of your points require Holy Spirit to equate to All-One. Since it doesn't, there is not reason to bring up The different ideas of God.

This isn't about backtracking, even that CRT which was accepted, was under the fact that pre creation velda has no relation to the All One. So remind me WHO is backtracking here??

Sure, Post-veldanava, but I am not talking about Post-Veldanava. I agree Post-Veldanava doesn't meet the requirement of All-One. So this isn't a backtrack, this is a clarification on what is or isn't connected.

There was no mention of "pre-creation Veldanava" in the scan provided, as the OP never made a distinction on what they were discussing. Also I doubt anybody actually brought forth evidence that proves otherwise, since there was no refutations for this specific point in the last CRT. So you either think Pre-creation Veldanava = Post-Creation veldanava (Which you already said are separate instances of Veldanava) or you are misunderstanding my point.

What was discussed in the section you linked, is about post-creation, not pre-creation. Meaning I can talk about pre-creation all I want and not backtrack to the last CRT.

Oh yeahhhh the whole "Still exists/not dead" section in the OP doesn't exist because you"debunked" 1 or 2 scans...

If the majority of proof is using misleading statements to suggest that God in vol 4-6 is All-One and Not Luminas, which I have provided evidence that it was, then yes. Consider it debunked until you find evidence of the contrary.

This is all unnecessary assumptions and headcanons to a thing that has already been established in the novel. So really, a Hitchen's victim.

Not at all, it's equal interpretation. He "discarded" his omnipotence right? So wouldn't that equally mean he's discarding himself? Could it? If you can't even grant the possibility of that being the interpretation, then what makes your interpretation so much stronger?

The support evidence for mine is that he is continuously been described as a being who lost his omnipotence and Omniscience. If he knew he was going to lose his powers, as he was omniscience, then him using his powers knowing he was going to lose them, would equate to him giving it up/discarding them, therefore discarding himself as All-One. Which is the argument.

No? You're forgetting again there are different conceptions of "Omnipotence". Veldanava before creation was so because he could create all skills, not in the same sense as the Holy Spirit (Perfection/Infinity) whose Omnipotence is derived from its nature.

I'll only address this last, because the different concept section is honestly a non-point as it really depends whether or not All-One still existed during those times.

The biggest issue isn't about Omnipotence, it's about being called a God. Velgrynd didn't consider herself one because she isn't a creator like Veldanava, she just can manipulate the natural world, but to normal regular people, that's god like.

To give an example, that's like the difference between Thor, Celestials and The living tribunal. Each are Gods in their own respective ways, but the tiering of them are so vastly different. Thor cannot create life nor planets and stars. Celestials are not fundamental aspects of reality like Eternity or Tribunal etc. So Thor is a god, but to him he would be less of one compared to a celestial which would be less than compared to Tribunal.

Having tiers of what beings would consider a "God" does not dispute the fact that these subjective perspectives are true. So simply believing in something "god-like" Doesn't actually mean that that thing is a God in the truest sense of the word.

So instead of trying to argue a non-point which entirely depends upon one of the points being true, which I am attacking, focus on the point I am Attacking. I Won't respond to any more points regarding the conception of Gods since that doesn't matter if you can't prove that All-One still exists.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Here's the draft for the new "God" profile btw:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Astral_Trinity439/Infinity

I added 3 points in the Attacks/Techniques section (cuz why empty heh) and changed mentions of Great Spirits with Attributes based on one of the previous threads differentiating the two.

The "abilities from all true dragons" is cuz all of them are its avatars as explained by Ciel:



And also this scan which I'll get translated later:

Anyways got this scan's translation confirmed by @RaikiKurohane99 :

The four bodies of “Dragon Species,” the first one among them, was an existence that, on the earth, bore a child with a human. Strangely, the “Dragon Species” that mated with a human had the greater part of its power taken by the child. Since then, the act of “Dragon Species” bearing a child with humans seems to be regarded as a taboo prohibition. That “Dragon Species,” having lost its power, dispersed its body and accomplished incarnation on the earth, becoming the progenitor of the dragon race. From that, the “will bearing existences of the Holy Spirit of Nature” came to be called “Dragon Species.”

 

[Bahaha]

Never did.
Where the evidence of this?
Never said that. My stance is Pre-creation Veldanava = All-One. Which is all of his power. True Dragon Veldanava is simple after losing his All-One status.

Wanted, but did have change yet. So when He created the cardinal world, change occurred causing a contradiction which led him to lose both omnipotence and omniscience.

So "All-One" = "Omnipotence and Omniscience" which is what Luverage's goal was, to become all-powerful and all-knowing which would be "All-One" the only reason why she couldn't is because Veldanava lost both of those qualities when he lost Void Collapse.

If he were Omnipotent and Omniscient, or in your words "All-One", UNTIL he created the Cardinal World, then he was "All-One" as Star King Dragon Veldanava. The Heavenly Star Palace, Place of Beginnings, is the FIRST thing in existence before all other worlds, and also the place where star king dragon Veldanava was born.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

If he were Omnipotent and Omniscient, or in your words "All-One", UNTIL he created the Cardinal World, then he was "All-One" as Star King Dragon Veldanava. The Heavenly Star Palace, Place of Beginnings, is the FIRST thing in existence before all other worlds, and also the place where star king dragon Veldanava was born.

You can also add that velda was bored in a world of emptiness before creating the base of the world using Eden and then descending (this much is already accepted on his profile). Star Palace is anything but "emptiness". Can add some more to it.

---

Anyways I'm busy with something else so I'll reply tomorrow unless staff come before that and this thread gets closed.

 

[Fixxed]

Just let the scan talk for it self

I agree with separation, but not with complete separation

Literally there are no direct scan that say pre existent veldanava and all-one is complete different entity, that just a assumption and narration from the supporter

In contrary we literally have scan (a direct scan) that say veldanava is all-one in the beginning

I see, Guy thought. Because it was Guy, he was able to understand. In other words, Veldanava had discarded omniscience and omnipotence by his own will.

And if veldanava are completely different entity since the beginning, how can his will exist and can discarded the all-one?

- If it was literally his will, then the all-one is somehow "inferior" than veldanava, because the all-one can be discarded

- If the will is all-one's will it self, then it mean veldanava and all-one is literally one entity in the beginning


Why he and the other cannot become all-one again? Bruh the scan talk for it self. They cannot become all-one again because veldanava have contradiction, by logic that mean if veldanava doesnt have that they can in fact become all-one again. So it was not because they and all-one completely seperate and different in the first place, but because other thing

“Don’t be ridiculous! I’m no longer alone! I reclaimed Veldanava and became one with him. I’ve become omniscient and omnipotent!!”

Good grief. Luvelage is so utterly ignorant that all I can do is laugh.
He absorbed Veldanava and even went so far as to give himself a “name,” trying to return to the state of the “All-One,” yet in the end, he failed to attain omniscience and omnipotence.

Well, that was only to be expected. After all, your very existence itself is a contradiction.

The “All-One” exists precisely because it lacks contradictions, yet Veldanava possessed far too many of them. Having absorbed and integrated such a being, there was no possible way for Luvelage to return to the “All-One.”

«That is the truth.»

Right? It’s logic simple enough that even a child could understand it.

And too many assumtion, the argument also used an concept that doesnt explained nor explored clear enough in the verse, like taiji, they want to use that for prove that veldanava and all-one are completely seperate entity since the beginning

After all, Luvelage, being completely off guard, was struck by a slash from below released from outside his awareness, and ended up letting go of the jewel he had been gripping between both hands. That jewel it had a shape resembling the Yin-Yang Taijitu, like a combination of white and black magatama. Since it is spherical, its appearance likely changes depending on the angle, but it is a beautiful jewel with a mysterious charm. That jewel danced in the air and was gulped down by a small dragon that came flying.

It just say that luvelage have a jewel, and that jewel's shape resembling yin-yang taijitsu. It doesnt say anything after that. We cannot use this kind of scan as prove that the cosmology use those concept. Even if the cosmology literally use that concept, we just allow to use what the verse literally show not a copypaste from wikipedia

 

[Bahaha]

It just say that luvelage have a jewel, and that jewel's shape resembling yin-yang taijitsu. It doesnt say anything after that. We cannot use this kind of scan as prove that the cosmology use those concept. Even if the cosmology literally use that concept, we just allow to use what the verse literally show not a copypaste from wikipedia

You're forgetting one more quote which directly says the fusion of Veldanava and Ivarage was ying and yang

ヴェルダナーヴァはもう、寂しくなかった。心が満たされていた。イヴァラージェから力を吸収され続けていたが、それでも何も感じない。陰と陽。ルシアと手を取り合うようにして、小さく小さく丸まっていく……。

Veldanava was no longer lonely. His heart was fulfilled. He continued to have his power absorbed by Ivarage, but even so, he felt nothing. Yin and Yang. As if joining hands with Lucia, he curled up smaller and smaller...
Translation by @RaikiKurohane99 in DMs
V23C5

 

[TheHyperGuy]

If he were Omnipotent and Omniscient, or in your words "All-One", UNTIL he created the Cardinal World, then he was "All-One" as Star King Dragon Veldanava. The Heavenly Star Palace, Place of Beginnings, is the FIRST thing in existence before all other worlds, and also the place where star king dragon Veldanava was born.

Yep, that's my point. And it's not my words, the novel directly states he was prior to creating the world.

Veldanava's origins, plus vol23 information regarding ivarage sort of supports that being the case. Both beings existed in unity together, but since Veldanava left the world of death and created change and others to satisfy his loneliness, that caused contradictions, making him lose his powers.

I don't see any issues with this line of reasoning.

 

[Elizhaa]

I think there were some wrong counterexamples of the worship of god as point being like an all in one's case like with Ruminas's and Velgrynd's case. To restated, god is not meant to be literal sense or conceptual sense but people who could manipulate spiritrons; they can also use the worship to grew stronger like Rimuru later and it is related to the reason why Luminas, a demon lord, wanted to be worship like a god (Volume 10 Chapter 2); holy spirit is not even needed to use holy magic which is a misconception. The worship could just be faith like with Shuna's case (Volume 6 chapter 4) and it seems at certain level of faith it is comparable to naming (Volume 14 Chapter 1).
Even powerful monsters could be worship which basically happened with Ruminas with the context (Volume 10 Chapter 4); it is basically what happened in Velgrynd's case and it suggested that how she learned holy magic (Volume 17 chapter 2).
I agree with separating the profile.

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

I agree with separating the profile.

Are 2 votes enough?
Or do we need 3?

 

[Fixxed]

You're forgetting one more quote which directly says the fusion of Veldanava and Ivarage was ying and yang

Doesnt really matter

like i say, the verse must explain clearly about some concept if they wanna use that. We will just use what the verse clearly show. And it was a common thing for using yin-yang to describing or want to somehow describe two opposing thing, nothing special here

 

[SomebodyData]

@DarkDragonMedeus
@KingTempest
@Random-Helper323
@Dalesean027

Your help would be greatly appreciated

 

[Random-Helper323]

The OP seems reasonable from what I can tell.