Add High-Godly again to the gods and reject High-Godly for Yogiri.

[sukuna171]

but yogiri is the exception right?

Yeah forgot to add that part my bad.

 

[Elizhaa]

Thanks for the inputs; NEP for Yogiri would likely be for another thread; There kanji 虚無 of nothingness from here used for the darkness and Yogiri's true form is already accepted as the darkness; the official translation seems support the request but I did make a request in OTR thread.
Edit: Yogiri's and gods' NEP were accepted as NEP nature Type 1 and all aspects and also from this; the evidence/arguments that were presented were basically the same or similar to mentioned above; it give more credence that it could be valid; NEP page structured remained the same from that thread.

Spoiler: Text

ならば別の次元を、 並行世界を、 別の宇宙を観ようとしたが、それも叶わなかった。 観ようとした先にあるのも虚無だったのだ。

The text suggest nonexistent physiology from the translation.

Spoiler

Then, I tried to observe another dimension, a parallel world, another universe, but that too did not come true.
What lay ahead of what I tried to observe was also nothingness.

 

[Vietthai96]

ならば別の次元を、 並行世界を、 別の宇宙を観ようとしたが、それも叶わなかった。 観ようとした先にあるのも虚無だったのだ。

So I tried to look into another dimension, a parallel world, another universe, but that was also impossible. All that lay beyond what i sought to see was nothingness

Edit: It seems you have gotten it translated bruhhh

 

[Ihsjihahxu]

It would have NEP nature type 1 and all other aspects like in the past, from Volume 8 chapter 1 context. The case might also support Yogiri's true form NEP nature type 1 and all other aspects like in the past also: UEG melted into his darkness, an endless darkness where nothing exists and nothing can exist along with the suggestions that there is nothing beyond it like suggested in a past thread; edit: It somewhat off topic, but Acausaility type 4 removal from Yogiri was largely from The Demon King is Unbeatable's evidence which was removed from the god's cases on passive causality manipulation and invincibility and that also weaken or removed conceptual manipulation evidence, which further weaken the evidence of acausality in the past, that got reinstated; the justification probably would have been like this:

I think it should be explained more clearly.

For example:
We should say that we exclude the Sea of Darkness and Nothingness. Why do we need to exclude them? I’ll explain from this perspective.

Gods have two states: life and death.
In the state of life, a god possesses body, mind, soul, and existence.
In reality, when a god is killed or erased, they return to the Sea of Darkness to wait for the day they will revive again.

This means their state changes from life → death, and that “death” itself is simply another state of a god, just as UEG stated: death is merely one state of a god.

However, when we look at the chapters of UEG vs Rick and UEG vs Toichirou:
UEG had her existence completely erased, meaning her state of life was destroyed (even though she was able to revive very quickly afterward).

But she still had to fall into the Sea of Darkness, which represents the state of death. This implies that a god must experience a lack of existence, becoming nonexistent, and completely unable to interact with the physical world.

The god themselves also no longer exists in a physical sense.
As we know, gods still exist in an informational form.

Malna, who was destroyed by Miranda she appeared in the Sea of Darkness.

Her angels could not perceive her existence or identity, and she herself was completely cut off from the physical world. However, because her information and world core remained, she was able to return to her world.

• This explanation helps support NEP1 Yogiri (or NEP2).

Similarly, Yogiri is one of the primordial things that existed before everything:

Characters of this type have to behave at least as nonexistent as those with Material Nonexistence, but might display even further showings such as preceding or opposing existence.

This is another point I want to make.

“That’s a good question. Maybe it’s like the gap between life and death, a
space-time singularity, a flashback, or a dream? Like the last glimmer of life
before you die? Or a single instant where everything comes apart when one’s
fate has been decided? You’re not dead yet, but your death has been
guaranteed. This place could be like a shadow born from the transition from
life to death. Anyway, interpret it as you like.”
“Not that I believe you, but why are you here, then?”
“I’ve been waiting for a chance to say ‘serves you right.’ Takatou would
never say that to you, so I wanted to get it off my chest. Of course, I can’t go
somewhere weird like this myself, so I just projected a shadow of myself here
for this brief instant.”
“I see. It is true; despite my great wisdom, this is a phenomenon I am
unfamiliar with. But you claim I have died? I do not know what this place is,
but I can simply teleport away as I wish.”
The UEG searched her surroundings. The empty blackness really seemed
to go on forever. As far as her senses could reach, the darkness continued on,
unending. So she tried looking into other dimensions, parallel worlds, or
alternate universes, but none of it worked. Only the same void greeted her.

From this, we know that UEG is not fully dead yet, but is approaching death, and her state is being transitioned from life to death. That transition itself is the embodiment of The End, or Yogiri’s power.

This power changes the state of a character into Nothingness.
The place UEG is in is a boundary between existence and death

this is the manifestation of “The End.”
“The End” is described as darkness where nothing exists, an infinite expanse of nothingness.

Then, I tried to observe another dimension, a parallel world, another universe, but that too did not work.
What lay ahead of everything I tried to observe was also nothingness.

What UEG experiences is nothingness.

Yogiri’s Nothingness is something that transcends everything and existed even before life and death, which themselves are merely states of gods.
And beyond even that there is still only Nothingness

All of this is my interpretation. Whether it is accepted or not depends on you all. But honestly, it might be better to just make a new thread for this.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

First, it is stated that gods are indestructible; they can return from death and cannot be killed at all. Even if you kill or erase them, they will reappear again, and there is no way to permanently erase them. Thus, the victor always ends up sealing the god to win, because killing them is impossible, and sealing is what ends the conflict.

This is outright fishy, especially since this scan comes along from the same chapter where we get (the objectively best character) Kouryu explaining the significance and nature of a God's omnipotence as a whole.

Kouryu explained as it being inherently subjective, varying from person to person as well as when it comes down to two Gods fighting another, it's not only strength but ones mindset AND strength that can have one come out on top, it all being defined by each God's own will and emotions. Contradictions with something like omniscience hamper these sorts of ideals, so they're ignored for the most part.

Such mental hampering is very detrimental to the point that Gods like Malna after getting mentally done in (mogged) by Kouryu, though still superior to him as said by himself, she’s able to be killed by getting impaled from behind by the likes of Miranda, without any notion of her core, soul, or concept even getting damaged. Implying that Gods (once mentally done in) can perish from much less than any aspects being destroyed.

It possibly wouldn't be so bad, possibly, but this isn't the only time something like this happens. I believe ignoring this is (obviously without a doubt) bad and VERY hard to do. Especially concerning how existence erasure on our actual page says it's never assumed to be done to any metaphysical aspects like the soul of someone automatically/by default. Heck, there's examples and blatant showings where a character has been described to be 'erased', but they're doing little more than attacking them with AP (likely to assume advantage of the weakness of their omnipotence powers) but no mention of anything important.

Even while said examples do include the likes of striking the cores, it's hardly any evidence to imply it's tied to something like the Gods concept, UEG even going out of her way to actively differentiate between the two in her experience against the likes of Rick and against the nameless instant death boy. Hell, not even any suggestion it's like their soul unless it's to assume a 'likely', it tosses up the question for if every other God should have such high level of overtime revival as you're proposing. Mind you, that same boy (if not just their ability alone in terms of effectiveness) having the likelihood of being stronger than what Touichiro has been shown to really do. So only really UEG benefits, and even then it'd be Mid-Godly at best due to her seeing it as a way to permanently put her down, she just comes back ridiculously faster overall from something like core destruction.

It is also stated that death for gods is merely another state of existence from which they eventually recover and return to life. Death and annihilation for gods are simply another phase of existence.

To address this, this also seems very fishy as if you're trying to fish for some sort of NEP out of the Gods when not even THE UEG (horrible name) sees the concept of nonexistence as impossible, and that's alongside the fact of Kouryu tossing up the question of if where they had been was even real to begin with (thus making it vague.) It should be saying a lot if you think a God any lower than her should gain such a thing. But, that's me assuming you are, this is a regeneration thread after all. It's moreso a God being in an afterlife waiting room of sorts.

The Great Sage Mitsuki himself, who is capable of erasing a character’s entire history (past, present, and future), was unable to erase the gods. Mitsuki was forced to seal them instead, because gods would return even after being killed. Therefore, he had no choice but to seal them to deal with them. This further supports that such erasure is ineffective against gods.

However, I explicitly have the most problem right here. Mitsuki is a top of the line god, though this text specifies it as him likely giving the person being talked about some mercy, it's less there being no choice and more likely among the way Gods have gotten defeated before as described in this post, and not having defeated them to such an extent (history erasure) because of one missing piece of context left out.

That being, Mitsuki's history erasure works on.. himself as well. History Erasure, at least how Mitsuki defines his will have everyone not remember you upon being struck by it, even including from himself. It goes hand in hand with his control over his jurisdiction of a dream in that upon being forgotten by him, it is then one essentially gets hit with a sort of 'super erasure' due to them disappearing from his dream overall. Unless you can show that Gods can exist being erased so deeply to where they can disappear from his dream and come back.. just how exactly does this apply to every other god?

Complete erasure, causality erasure, and conceptual attacks—these kinds of abilities are possible for anyone within the Sea, and gods (as well as most characters in Instant Death) resist, survive, or negate them.

This link leads to the history erasure scan for Mitsuki's erasure bolt, don't know what this is doing here (made a mistake or something?) But because I know what scan you're talking about, I'll indulge it a bit.

'Conceptual attacks' mean nothing by themselves, UEG can induce her attacks with the concept of ignoring defense, but something like that is unrelated. See where that falls apart? So they can be considered unimportant.

Complete erasure - See to my link about the different sorts of erasure within Instant Death as for what 'complete erasure' can refer to.

Causality Erasure - You'd think this would seem fairly surefire as additional evidence, yeah, but.. so what? Is this assuming Gods can resist such erasure just because it exists in the sea? We've seen gods other than UEG essentially survive much less, no? Not like any bit of the OP in terms of some of the evidence dedicates it's time to addressing the points involved in the same Mid-Godly downgrade thread for someone like UEG in the first place, why would they work for the Gods who're explicitly below them? But like I said - she explicitly needs to be conceptually killed anyway, so Mid-Godly for her at best is fine.

Yeah so, heavy disagree, just upgrade UEG to Mid-Godly instead while the other gods can remain at low-godly unless I'm missing something.

 

[AyOgUyS]

Following, not voting yet. If I already voted and just forgot like a dummy, remove my vote temporarily

 

[Hecky2222]

Having discussed it before off topic with @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless and @Ruler_Star_Kuma ,I agree with Kuma's points here

Also cropping out context that leads people think Mitsuki used his erasure bold to UEG(Mind you it was used only against Yogiri) is hella weird.

So put me on disagree I guess

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

snip

Are you willing to change your stance with the arguments above?

 

[Robo432343]

after discussing with @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless i agree with mid-godly

 

[Hecky2222]

after discussing with @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless i agree with mid-godly

🫪. Oh ye essentially TLDR of why Gods don't use their whatever erasure is they have IQ like Robo so

 

[Azertyhuuh]

This is outright fishy, especially since this scan comes along from the same chapter where we get (the objectively best character) Kouryu explaining the significance and nature of a God's omnipotence as a whole.

Kouryu explained as it being inherently subjective, varying from person to person as well as when it comes down to two Gods fighting another, it's not only strength but ones mindset AND strength that can have one come out on top, it all being defined by each God's own will and emotions. Contradictions with something like omniscience hamper these sorts of ideals, so they're ignored for the most part.

Such mental hampering is very detrimental to the point that Gods like Malna after getting mentally done in (mogged) by Kouryu, though still superior to him as said by himself, she’s able to be killed by getting impaled from behind by the likes of Miranda, without any notion of her core, soul, or concept even getting damaged. Implying that Gods (once mentally done in) can perish from much less than any aspects being destroyed.

It possibly wouldn't be so bad, possibly, but this isn't the only time something like this happens. I believe ignoring this is (obviously without a doubt) bad and VERY hard to do. Especially concerning how existence erasure on our actual page says it's never assumed to be done to any metaphysical aspects like the soul of someone automatically/by default. Heck, there's examples and blatant showings where a character has been described to be 'erased', but they're doing little more than attacking them with AP (likely to assume advantage of the weakness of their omnipotence powers) but no mention of anything important.

Even while said examples do include the likes of striking the cores, it's hardly any evidence to imply it's tied to something like the Gods concept, UEG even going out of her way to actively differentiate between the two in her experience against the likes of Rick and against the nameless instant death boy. Hell, not even any suggestion it's like their soul unless it's to assume a 'likely', it tosses up the question for if every other God should have such high level of overtime revival as you're proposing. Mind you, that same boy (if not just their ability alone in terms of effectiveness) having the likelihood of being stronger than what Touichiro has been shown to really do. So only really UEG benefits, and even then it'd be Mid-Godly at best due to her seeing it as a way to permanently put her down, she just comes back ridiculously faster overall from something like core destruction.

Your statement is incorrect. Malna did not die permanently; it was later explicitly stated that she would return to life again. Therefore, your interpretation here is completely wrong.

Well...I have nothing else to do, so I guess I can just relax and watch.”
If the angels decided to do anything, it would probably have an effect
regardless of where she was watching from, so she would be able to figure it
out. For now, there was nothing more she could do.
“Actually, where’s Rilna?”
Rilna had died around the same time Malna had, so it wouldn’t be strange
if she was close by. Since she had died first, if she was anywhere, she would
be deeper down. Malna turned to the depths of the darkness. There was
nothing but empty blackness. If someone was down there, she should have
seen them. Light and dark were subjective here, so it wasn’t like the darkness
could impede her vision.
But Malna was completely alone. No matter how much she doubted her
eyes, she couldn’t see anyone but herself.

It was like she was slowly sinking to the bottom of a sea of darkness. That
was what the experience of death was like for Malna. Above the surface of
the water, she could still see the world she had lived in, but she was unable to
influence it anymore. How long would she be able to see it? Before long,
darkness would close in around her and she wouldn’t be able to see anything.
“Ah, dang it! This sucks! This totally sucks!”
She had let down her guard. She had underestimated Kouryu, thinking he
was powerless. She could come up with any number of excuses, but the fact
of the matter was that she had been outsmarted. She wanted to get back at
him somehow, but she didn’t know if her anger and frustration would last
until her resurrection.
For a god, death wasn’t the end, but she would be unable to do anything
for a significant amount of time.

To address this, this also seems very fishy as if you're trying to fish for some sort of NEP out of the Gods when not even THE UEG (horrible name) sees the concept of nonexistence as impossible, and that's alongside the fact of Kouryu tossing up the question of if where they had been was even real to begin with (thus making it vague.) It should be saying a lot if you think a God any lower than her should gain such a thing. But, that's me assuming you are, this is a regeneration thread after all. It's moreso a God being in an afterlife waiting room of sorts.

Do not go off topic.

However, I explicitly have the most problem right here. Mitsuki is a top of the line god, though this text specifies it as him likely giving the person being talked about some mercy, it's less there being no choice and more likely among the way Gods have gotten defeated before as described in this post, and not having defeated them to such an extent (history erasure) because of one missing piece of context left out.

That being, Mitsuki's history erasure works on.. himself as well. History Erasure, at least how Mitsuki defines his will have everyone not remember you upon being struck by it, even including from himself. It goes hand in hand with his control over his jurisdiction of a dream in that upon being forgotten by him, it is then one essentially gets hit with a sort of 'super erasure' due to them disappearing from his dream overall. Unless you can show that Gods can exist being erased so deeply to where they can disappear from his dream and come back.. just how exactly does this apply to every other god?

As I already stated in the thread, gods cannot die and cannot be destroyed. Mitsuki is capable of erasing at the level of an entire history (past, present, and future), which makes the character effectively nonexistent in the first place. Of course, it would be completely forgotten, even by him, since it is treated as if it never existed at all.

However, despite this level of erasure as shown above, he is still unable to permanently erase gods. Because of this, he seals them instead, since they would eventually return to life again. Mitsuki simply did not want to see their faces again, so he resorts to sealing them.

"I believed it was also acceptable to kill you. You and the UEG both lost, so erasing you completely seemed appropriate. But Lord Mitsuki is kinder than I am."

"Kind? If he's so kind, why did he seal me away?!"

"He was kind in that he did not take your life. Then again, if he had, you would have just revived somewhere else, so if he wished to never see you again, sealing you away was perhaps the best option. If you interfere with the current game, however, I will not mind killing you, so if you wish to die, please do exactly that."

This link leads to the history erasure scan for Mitsuki's erasure bolt, don't know what this is doing here (made a mistake or something?) But because I know what scan you're talking about, I'll indulge it a bit.

'Conceptual attacks' mean nothing by themselves, UEG can induce her attacks with the concept of ignoring defense, but something like that is unrelated. See where that falls apart? So they can be considered unimportant.

Complete erasure - See to my link about the different sorts of erasure within Instant Death as for what 'complete erasure' can refer to.

Causality Erasure - You'd think this would seem fairly surefire as additional evidence, yeah, but.. so what? Is this assuming Gods can resist such erasure just because it exists in the sea? We've seen gods other than UEG essentially survive much less, no? Not like any bit of the OP in terms of some of the evidence dedicates it's time to addressing the points involved in the same Mid-Godly downgrade thread for someone like UEG in the first place, why would they work for the Gods who're explicitly below them? But like I said - she explicitly needs to be conceptually killed anyway, so Mid-Godly for her at best is fine.

Yeah so, heavy disagree, just upgrade UEG to Mid-Godly instead while the other gods can remain at low-godly unless I'm missing something.

Yes, I may have made a mistake with the links, but it doesn’t really matter; it wasn’t very important in reality anyway.
I also do not agree with your response for the reasons I just mentioned in my reply.
All gods will have HGR.

 

[sukuna171]

This is outright fishy, especially since this scan comes along from the same chapter where we get (the objectively best character) Kouryu explaining the significance and nature of a God's omnipotence as a whole.

Kouryu explained as it being inherently subjective, varying from person to person as well as when it comes down to two Gods fighting another, it's not only strength but ones mindset AND strength that can have one come out on top, it all being defined by each God's own will and emotions. Contradictions with something like omniscience hamper these sorts of ideals, so they're ignored for the most part.

Such mental hampering is very detrimental to the point that Gods like Malna after getting mentally done in (mogged) by Kouryu, though still superior to him as said by himself, she’s able to be killed by getting impaled from behind by the likes of Miranda, without any notion of her core, soul, or concept even getting damaged. Implying that Gods (once mentally done in) can perish from much less than any aspects being destroyed.

It possibly wouldn't be so bad, possibly, but this isn't the only time something like this happens. I believe ignoring this is (obviously without a doubt) bad and VERY hard to do. Especially concerning how existence erasure on our actual page says it's never assumed to be done to any metaphysical aspects like the soul of someone automatically/by default. Heck, there's examples and blatant showings where a character has been described to be 'erased', but they're doing little more than attacking them with AP (likely to assume advantage of the weakness of their omnipotence powers) but no mention of anything important.

Even while said examples do include the likes of striking the cores, it's hardly any evidence to imply it's tied to something like the Gods concept, UEG even going out of her way to actively differentiate between the two in her experience against the likes of Rick and against the nameless instant death boy. Hell, not even any suggestion it's like their soul unless it's to assume a 'likely', it tosses up the question for if every other God should have such high level of overtime revival as you're proposing. Mind you, that same boy (if not just their ability alone in terms of effectiveness) having the likelihood of being stronger than what Touichiro has been shown to really do. So only really UEG benefits, and even then it'd be Mid-Godly at best due to her seeing it as a way to permanently put her down, she just comes back ridiculously faster overall from something like core destruction.

To address this, this also seems very fishy as if you're trying to fish for some sort of NEP out of the Gods when not even THE UEG (horrible name) sees the concept of nonexistence as impossible, and that's alongside the fact of Kouryu tossing up the question of if where they had been was even real to begin with (thus making it vague.) It should be saying a lot if you think a God any lower than her should gain such a thing. But, that's me assuming you are, this is a regeneration thread after all. It's moreso a God being in an afterlife waiting room of sorts.

However, I explicitly have the most problem right here. Mitsuki is a top of the line god, though this text specifies it as him likely giving the person being talked about some mercy, it's less there being no choice and more likely among the way Gods have gotten defeated before as described in this post, and not having defeated them to such an extent (history erasure) because of one missing piece of context left out.

That being, Mitsuki's history erasure works on.. himself as well. History Erasure, at least how Mitsuki defines his will have everyone not remember you upon being struck by it, even including from himself. It goes hand in hand with his control over his jurisdiction of a dream in that upon being forgotten by him, it is then one essentially gets hit with a sort of 'super erasure' due to them disappearing from his dream overall. Unless you can show that Gods can exist being erased so deeply to where they can disappear from his dream and come back.. just how exactly does this apply to every other god?

This link leads to the history erasure scan for Mitsuki's erasure bolt, don't know what this is doing here (made a mistake or something?) But because I know what scan you're talking about, I'll indulge it a bit.

'Conceptual attacks' mean nothing by themselves, UEG can induce her attacks with the concept of ignoring defense, but something like that is unrelated. See where that falls apart? So they can be considered unimportant.

Complete erasure - See to my link about the different sorts of erasure within Instant Death as for what 'complete erasure' can refer to.

Causality Erasure - You'd think this would seem fairly surefire as additional evidence, yeah, but.. so what? Is this assuming Gods can resist such erasure just because it exists in the sea? We've seen gods other than UEG essentially survive much less, no? Not like any bit of the OP in terms of some of the evidence dedicates it's time to addressing the points involved in the same Mid-Godly downgrade thread for someone like UEG in the first place, why would they work for the Gods who're explicitly below them? But like I said - she explicitly needs to be conceptually killed anyway, so Mid-Godly for her at best is fine.

Yeah so, heavy disagree, just upgrade UEG to Mid-Godly instead while the other gods can remain at low-godly unless I'm missing something.

I’m fine with mid-godly, but any god at the UEG level should also possess mid-godly.

 

[Random-Helper323]

From what I can tell, if someone regenerating from being erased from history is treated as High Godly with all aspects, then the proposals are probably fine. I'm a little unsure if we can really say their non-existence in time necessarily means their concept or information is also erased, but I can see the reasoning either way on that one, and even without it it'd likely still be High Godly.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

From what I can tell, if someone regenerating from being erased from history is treated as High Godly with all aspects, then the proposals are probably fine. I'm a little unsure if we can really say their non-existence in time necessarily means their concept or information is also erased, but I can see the reasoning either way on that one, and even without it it'd likely still be High Godly.

Alright, I’ve received three approvals now, so you can go ahead and close the thread.

 

[Hecky2222]

Alright, I’ve received three approvals now, so you can go ahead and close the thread.

Actually you have to wait 48 hours grace per rules

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Actually you have to wait 48 hours grace per rules

More than three days have passed since the thread was posted, so it can be closed as I mentioned.

 

[Vietthai96]

Such mental hampering is very detrimental to the point that Gods like Malna after getting mentally done in (mogged) by Kouryu, though still superior to him as said by himself, she’s able to be killed by getting impaled from behind by the likes of Miranda, without any notion of her core, soul, or concept even getting damaged. Implying that Gods (once mentally done in) can perish from much less than any aspects being destroyed.

I think God can die from impalement is just God's weakness, thing can only be a problem if God can't return because we are talking about regeneration, so yeah, this feat does not really impact the reason for God's regen which is stated by the statement that God can return even if getting erased

'Conceptual attacks' mean nothing by themselves, UEG can induce her attacks with the concept of ignoring defense, but something like that is unrelated. See where that falls apart? So they can be considered unimportant.

Though after reading this, i think i switch my vote to agree with History HGR only, no more Conceptual HGR