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Honkai Chainscaling (Giant Sting & Phantylia)

To summarize my disagreements with saying Argenti scales to the giant sting
They can be found in this post

To elaborate terms. Using triggering a gag reflex (which could always mean he struck a sensitive) on a bug that was already having an indigestion problem, which causes nausea to say Argenti downscales from the Sting’s entire mass. Which is where 3-C comes from for it doesn’t work unless we think every atom in this bug has 3-C durability (think about it, the lightest touches can trigger Gags in humans. Do those touches hit as hard as you can punch now?). But if it did this bug would be way way above 3-C mathematically. And thus that’s circular.

However there’s nothing wrong with using the Sting to scale emanators since they have reasons to upscale it in its entirety.

Using the Sting’s AP for Penacony characters (later than Argenti) is possible but a little iffy unless everyone can agree holy grail Skaracabaz is at least somewhat close to the original Skaracabaz and thus far superior to the sting. But not everyone seems to agree on that. But I don’t have much issue with it.

Aight these are my parting words cause on other topics I just agree with OP, Mbpoops and Nova’s points.
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
Using the Sting’s AP for Penacony characters (later than Argenti) is possible but a little iffy unless everyone can agree holy grail Skaracabaz is at least somewhat close to the original Skaracabaz and thus far superior to the sting. But not everyone seems to agree on that. But I don’t have much issue with it.
Click to expand...
You don’t need to use Holy Grail Bug because all you need to do for Penacony characters is either say Aventurine upscales Giant Sting as a Ten Stoneheart with the shared power of the Emanator of Preservation or have him be 10x weaker than Giant Sting due to possessing 1/10th the power of Diamond.
 
1/10th baseline 3-C which is 4-A (which is where i had them already) but thats not really important to this thread no need to go further
 
CastoriceTheFifth said:
You don’t need to use Holy Grail Bug because all you need to do for Penacony characters is either say Aventurine upscales Giant Sting as a Ten Stoneheart with the shared power of the Emanator of Preservation or have him be 10x weaker than Giant Sting due to possessing 1/10th the power of Diamond.
Click to expand...
At least (10x below current 3-C calc) works for Penacony + Fate collab characters yeah we can do that.
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
To summarize my disagreements with saying Argenti scales to the giant sting
They can be found in this post

To elaborate terms. Using triggering a gag reflex (which could always mean he struck a sensitive) on a bug that was already having an indigestion problem, which causes nausea to say Argenti downscales from the Sting’s entire mass. Which is where 3-C comes from for it doesn’t work unless we think every atom in this bug has 3-C durability (think about it, the lightest touches can trigger Gags in humans. Do those touches hit as hard as you can punch now?). But if it did this bug would be way way above 3-C mathematically. And thus that’s circular.

However there’s nothing wrong with using the Sting to scale emanators since they have reasons to upscale it in its entirety.

Using the Sting’s AP for Penacony characters (later than Argenti) is possible but a little iffy unless everyone can agree holy grail Skaracabaz is at least somewhat close to the original Skaracabaz and thus far superior to the sting. But not everyone seems to agree on that. But I don’t have much issue with it.

Aight these are my parting words cause on other topics I just agree with OP, Mbpoops and Nova’s points.
Click to expand...
Summary i csnt find opposing summary
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
To summarize my disagreements with saying Argenti scales to the giant sting
They can be found in this post

To elaborate terms. Using triggering a gag reflex (which could always mean he struck a sensitive) on a bug that was already having an indigestion problem, which causes nausea to say Argenti downscales from the Sting’s entire mass. Which is where 3-C comes from for it doesn’t work unless we think every atom in this bug has 3-C durability (think about it, the lightest touches can trigger Gags in humans. Do those touches hit as hard as you can punch now?). But if it did this bug would be way way above 3-C mathematically. And thus that’s circular.

However there’s nothing wrong with using the Sting to scale emanators since they have reasons to upscale it in its entirety.

Using the Sting’s AP for Penacony characters (later than Argenti) is possible but a little iffy unless everyone can agree holy grail Skaracabaz is at least somewhat close to the original Skaracabaz and thus far superior to the sting. But not everyone seems to agree on that. But I don’t have much issue with it.

Aight these are my parting words cause on other topics I just agree with OP, Mbpoops and Nova’s points.
Click to expand...
By the way I am in agreement with ts, yea.
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
To summarize my disagreements with saying Argenti scales to the giant sting
They can be found in this post

To elaborate terms. Using triggering a gag reflex (which could always mean he struck a sensitive) on a bug that was already having an indigestion problem, which causes nausea to say Argenti downscales from the Sting’s entire mass. Which is where 3-C comes from for it doesn’t work unless we think every atom in this bug has 3-C durability (think about it, the lightest touches can trigger Gags in humans. Do those touches hit as hard as you can punch now?). But if it did this bug would be way way above 3-C mathematically. And thus that’s circular.

However there’s nothing wrong with using the Sting to scale emanators since they have reasons to upscale it in its entirety.

Using the Sting’s AP for Penacony characters (later than Argenti) is possible but a little iffy unless everyone can agree holy grail Skaracabaz is at least somewhat close to the original Skaracabaz and thus far superior to the sting. But not everyone seems to agree on that. But I don’t have much issue with it.

Aight these are my parting words cause on other topics I just agree with OP, Mbpoops and Nova’s points.
Click to expand...
Planck69 said:
Can I get a TL;DR?
Click to expand...
Basically this. New bug calc dropped making it 3-C but argenti and subsequently the express from that arc shouldnt scale to it because all argenti did was cause a gag reflect to make it throw up which would be the equivilent of a bug making a human throw up
 
Planck69 said:
Can I get a TL;DR?
Click to expand...
Basically Argenti caused the bug to vomit the entire Astral Express train from its stomach because Argenti pierced the bug, the only problem is whether Argenti scales to the bug or not considering damage to internal organs are still a form of limited durability negation according to Chariot and that Argenti piercing the bug should make him scale relatively in terms of AP
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
To summarize my disagreements with saying Argenti scales to the giant sting
They can be found in this post

To elaborate terms. Using triggering a gag reflex (which could always mean he struck a sensitive) on a bug that was already having an indigestion problem, which causes nausea to say Argenti downscales from the Sting’s entire mass. Which is where 3-C comes from for it doesn’t work unless we think every atom in this bug has 3-C durability (think about it, the lightest touches can trigger Gags in humans. Do those touches hit as hard as you can punch now?). But if it did this bug would be way way above 3-C mathematically. And thus that’s circular.

However there’s nothing wrong with using the Sting to scale emanators since they have reasons to upscale it in its entirety.

Using the Sting’s AP for Penacony characters (later than Argenti) is possible but a little iffy unless everyone can agree holy grail Skaracabaz is at least somewhat close to the original Skaracabaz and thus far superior to the sting. But not everyone seems to agree on that. But I don’t have much issue with it.

Aight these are my parting words cause on other topics I just agree with OP, Mbpoops and Nova’s points.
Click to expand...
Looks reasonable. I'm fine with Emanators upscaling from the Giant Sting, but I'm moreorless neutral about the holy grail part.
 
Mbpoops said:
Basically this. New bug calc dropped making it 3-C but argenti and subsequently the express from that arc shouldnt scale to it because all argenti did was cause a gag reflect to make it throw up which would be the equivilent of a bug making a human throw up
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say it equivalent of a bug making a human throw up because it throwed up entire starnoughts too that was being vomitted technically as it contains these
 
As an outsider looking in, I feel like if they had to specifically attack it in a certain part inside its body to just make it vomit, then it's pretty clear the intention is that they do not scale to it in its entirety. Especially if its size is a significant part of why it scales that high to begin with.
 
Voidnether said:
Basically Argenti caused the bug to vomit the entire Astral Express train from its stomach because Argenti pierced the bug, the only problem is whether Argenti scales to the bug or not considering damage to internal organs are still a form of limited durability negation according to Chariot and that Argenti piercing the bug should make him scale relatively in terms of AP
Click to expand...
I wanna give planck time to evaluate this so im not gonna comment much after this but i just hope you know how many narrative inconsistancies this causes if argenti scales to the full sting (TB upscales from this and guess who he fights next…)
 
Planck69 said:
As an outsider looking in, I feel like if they had to specifically attack it in a certain part inside its body to just make it vomit, then it's pretty clear the intention is that they do not scale to it in its entirety. Especially if its size is a significant part of why it scales that high to begin with.
Click to expand...
The part I bolded was never stated though, Argenti pierced the bug and all we know that we were vomitted by the True Sting. It doesn't mentions anything about its vital points
 
Mbpoops said:
I wanna give planck time to evaluate this so im not gonna comment much after this but i just hope you know how many narrative inconsistancies this causes if argenti scales to the full sting (TB upscales from this and guess who he fights next…)
Click to expand...
Said narrative inconsistencies don't exist btw
 
Planck69 said:
As an outsider looking in, I feel like if they had to specifically attack it in a certain part inside its body to just make it vomit, then it's pretty clear the intention is that they do not scale to it in its entirety. Especially if its size is a significant part of why it scales that high to begin with.
Click to expand...
Yea this would be the equivalent if saying the bug has 3-C atoms that fully scale😭😭
 
Voidnether said:
Said narrative inconsistencies don't exist btw
Click to expand...
IMG-7926.webp

John narrative inconsistancy
 
Voidnether said:
???
Click to expand...
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
on a bug that was already having an indigestion problem, which causes nausea to say Argenti downscales from the Sting’s entire mass. Which is where 3-C comes from for it doesn’t work unless we think every atom in this bug has 3-C durability (think about it, the lightest touches can trigger Gags in humans. Do those touches hit as hard as you can punch now?). But if it did this bug would be way way above 3-C mathematically. And thus that’s circular.
Click to expand...
 
Voidnether said:
The part I bolded was never stated though, Argenti pierced the bug and all we know that we were vomitted by the True Sting. It doesn't mentions anything about its vital points
Click to expand...
It doesn't have to be, nor am I talking about vital points. My point is that if the feat itself is just targeting its insides at a point to make it vomit then it's a fairly clear portrayal that the character in question doesn't directly scale to the bug at all.

It'd be one thing if it was significant damage like a reverse disembowelment but that isn't the case here either.
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
To summarize my disagreements with saying Argenti scales to the giant sting
They can be found in this post

To elaborate terms. Using triggering a gag reflex (which could always mean he struck a sensitive) on a bug that was already having an indigestion problem, which causes nausea to say Argenti downscales from the Sting’s entire mass. Which is where 3-C comes from for it doesn’t work unless we think every atom in this bug has 3-C durability (think about it, the lightest touches can trigger Gags in humans. Do those touches hit as hard as you can punch now?). But if it did this bug would be way way above 3-C mathematically. And thus that’s circular.

However there’s nothing wrong with using the Sting to scale emanators since they have reasons to upscale it in its entirety.

Using the Sting’s AP for Penacony characters (later than Argenti) is possible but a little iffy unless everyone can agree holy grail Skaracabaz is at least somewhat close to the original Skaracabaz and thus far superior to the sting. But not everyone seems to agree on that. But I don’t have much issue with it.

Aight these are my parting words cause on other topics I just agree with OP, Mbpoops and Nova’s points.
Click to expand...
Bumping this once again
 
Another day another Hoyo CRT

Jackof_noTrades068 said:
To summarize my disagreements with saying Argenti scales to the giant sting
They can be found in this post

To elaborate terms. Using triggering a gag reflex (which could always mean he struck a sensitive) on a bug that was already having an indigestion problem, which causes nausea to say Argenti downscales from the Sting’s entire mass. Which is where 3-C comes from for it doesn’t work unless we think every atom in this bug has 3-C durability (think about it, the lightest touches can trigger Gags in humans. Do those touches hit as hard as you can punch now?). But if it did this bug would be way way above 3-C mathematically. And thus that’s circular.

However there’s nothing wrong with using the Sting to scale emanators since they have reasons to upscale it in its entirety.

Using the Sting’s AP for Penacony characters (later than Argenti) is possible but a little iffy unless everyone can agree holy grail Skaracabaz is at least somewhat close to the original Skaracabaz and thus far superior to the sting. But not everyone seems to agree on that. But I don’t have much issue with it.

Aight these are my parting words cause on other topics I just agree with OP, Mbpoops and Nova’s points.
Click to expand...
I can agree with this tbh
 
Ok so can this revision actually be applied now and the Low 1-C everybody can be erased?

Although should HI3 characters (curse you welt) even be updated yet since rescaling is on the way for them already.
 
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