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- #81
I have presented different arguments, distinct from all those used in previous CRTs regarding the question of plot manipulation
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Major rework for our favorite yogiri and ueg
- Thread starter SkyBlade6635
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- #82
I've already seen the reasons, but I don't exactly understand what the problem is. Could you explain it to me? Because I don't see how it relates to the range
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- #83
That is not the main argument; my argument lies in the fact that Yogiri's true form is stated to be the embodiment of non-existence.
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I don’t know why everyone here is against us; no matter what argument we present, it gets opposed and rejected.
Anyway, other staff members should be called here. For now, only NEP2 for Yogiri and Acausality Type 5 for his true form will be discussed, and this is my final stance. As for the plot issue, I will leave it for another time and request to reopen the closed thread without permission to continue the discussion there.
Now let’s focus only on NEP2 for his true form and Acausality Type 5 for his true form as well. That’s all.
Anyway, other staff members should be called here. For now, only NEP2 for Yogiri and Acausality Type 5 for his true form will be discussed, and this is my final stance. As for the plot issue, I will leave it for another time and request to reopen the closed thread without permission to continue the discussion there.
Now let’s focus only on NEP2 for his true form and Acausality Type 5 for his true form as well. That’s all.
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Quote them.
It's in the post itself:
Thats a mistranslation.
Also, stop making multiple posts, it clogs the thread. Make a single post instead.
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You didn’t respond to what I said here.
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- #87
Okay, perfect then
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- #88
I think that would be contradictory. Nowhere is it mentioned that Yogiri couldn't detect him because he (the Specter Lord) wasn't targeting him. All we know is that Yogiri already had the ability to see spirits via NPI, so I don't see why he would have to assume his existence in order to kill him
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- #89
Fine, if that is the case, I suggest that we add "Immunity to attacks originating from the past" to his profile
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The OP isnt even arguing this. Take this to another thread.
I did. The whole argument in the OP hinges on the "hypothetical" statement, which is completely unrelated to NEP.
Again, being able to end all existence doesn't mean you are nonexistent yourself.
This is just a non-sequitur. What you said has zero correlation. Completely unrelated to the evidence needed for NEP.
It's never described as "nonexistence".
It's never stated Yogiri surpasses it.
It's never stated that he "transcends" everything.
Can we be honest, please?
"Immunity" doesnt apply here, since it's only given in cases where the user lacks an aspect for an ability to affect. Yogiri doesn't lack a past, so it cant be immunity. It's not a "resistance" either. So if anything it could be added to his Notable Attacks section under his "Automatic Defenses" part.
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What the hell are you talking about? What does this have to do with ending existence?
I’m talking about his true form, which is the end of everything. His true form being the end of everything means he is nonexistence itself—5-5 = 0.
It’s exactly the same as saying his true form is nonexistence, or saying in another way that his true form is the end of everything.
Please focus on what is stated in the context instead of making these kinds of conclusions. He is talking about his true form.
What????
Are you also denying what the novel says? ↓↓↓
And are you denying what the novel says here as well regarding the Dark World? ↓↓↓
What now????
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- #93
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- #94
Alright, what do you think about my arguments regarding UEG's mid/high-godly regeneration? I developed my argument and showed why it isn't just low-godly
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- #95
Okay, I was basing it on that part, and since I don't have the full Japanese version, I didn't know it was a translation error. So yeah, I'm dropping the NEP 1 idea for now since that was the only proof I had at the moment
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agree with oblivion here, BUT this is literally the same case with honkai we cannot have the verse going up and down this much bruh
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- #97
Okay, if you want, but I’m not sure if that's allowed given that I'm new to this forum; if it is allowed, then I'll add it
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Yes, it’s fine. It’s just a modification in acausality and the addition of some arguments that support your position; it’s not something new.
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- #99
No, that's not my entire argument. My argument relied on the fact that Yogiri couldn't see the Lord of Specters despite having NPI, and since he had to assume its existence before killing it, it implied the Lord of Specters was non-existent. However, I hadn't noticed—or rather, I didn't remember—the part where it says Yogiri couldn't see him simply because he wasn't attacking him at the time
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I already explained to you having NPI doesn't mean you can interact with NEP
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NPI is an ability based on interaction, not sight. It doesn't let you see anything more than any character without NPI could see. It just lets you interact with beings one normally cannot interact.
What lets you see things that are normally invisible are Enhanced Senses or Extrasensory Perception
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The issue is that Yogiri can perceive anything, regardless of what it is. Even someone using an invisibility ability can still be seen by him. There is nothing in the entire novel that falls outside his range of perception and vision, including characters who themselves possess invisibility abilities.
The problem is that the “Lord of Specters” was not actually present. The evidence for this is that Yogiri relied on killing him by first assuming his existence, which implies that he did not exist in the first place—Yogiri hypothesized his existence and then killed him based on that assumption.
Aside from that, Yogiri is capable of perceiving the existence of any entity. Invisibility itself is also a kind of “nonexistence-type” ability, making one completely unseen, yet he can still perceive such characters.
He can perceive higher dimensions, souls, ghosts, and all kinds of beings wherever they are, even those that are inherently hidden.
Therefore, the fact that he could not perceive the “Lord of Specters”—especially considering that it is a specter and he can perceive other specters and souls—indicates that the Lord of Specters possesses at least NEP1 (Nonexistent Physiology type 1). In other words, it is completely nonexistent, and something that does not exist cannot be perceived; nonexistence itself cannot be seen. That is why Yogiri relied on assuming its existence in order to kill it.
The only issue is that he is capable of perceiving all specters. So why, then, is he unable to see the “Lord of Specters”? Moreover, he had to assume its existence in order to kill it, which implies that it was not actually present in the first place.
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I think you just don't read what anyone says, actually.
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I don’t know why the members don’t understand what I’m saying, or whether they are deliberately ignoring the facts.
- It is stated in this text in front of you that Yogiri could not kill something that is not real, meaning something that does not exist—something nonexistent—and this is explicitly mentioned in the text.
- As we know, Yogiri is capable of killing abstract concepts, souls, ghosts, information, and so on. Abstract concepts and information are all real things in a certain sense, even though we know that abstract concepts have no physical existence, no form, and nothing tangible. Yet Yogiri is still able to kill them because they are at least real (i.e., they exist in some sense).
- The Lord of Specters is a ghost like any other ghost, and Yogiri can see ghosts, spirits, and even characters with invisibility abilities. This is not really relevant, since he is also capable of killing abstract concepts and information despite their lack of physical form, as long as they are at least real. However, Yogiri stated that he cannot kill something that is not real—it does not exist at all, it is not something real. This explains his inability to perceive or directly interact with it, even though he can interact with abstract things like concepts and information. In the end, the Lord of Specters is still a ghost, so how can he perceive all ghosts except this one? Simply put, it is still a ghost, but in short, it has NEP1.
- Yogiri knows that this ghost exists because it interacts with its surroundings and physically restrains her. Yet he still said it is not real. In order to kill it, he only assumed its existence so he could kill it. This is further evidence that it does not actually exist, because he had to assume its existence in order to kill it, even though he already knew it was there. He knows it is restraining and binding her, yet he still says it is not real and assumes its existence to kill it. Moreover, it is a ghost and nothing new. With what has been explained above, the matter becomes clear.
The Lord of Specters has NEP1, and Yogiri would have Type 1 Nonexistence Erasure along with the other necessary aspects.
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Brother, the madara pfp guy understood this better than you.
The ghost was there (not nonexistent) it just wasn't targeting Yogiri. This is a nothing-burger explanation for any ability additions and oblivion already explained what it would give. Once again, as I said before, you're being obtuse.
Remember when you said me getting involved with you was a bad move? Long as you keep BEING obtuse I'll still have stuff to disagree about. How about you go actually read the novel like -genuine fan- and try again later.
Simultaneously true it looks like. At least skyblade apologized for missing the context of the Aca 1 scan.
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- #107
Look, I never said that. If you check all my comments, I never claimed that having Non-Physical Interaction allows one to affect NEP .My point was that despite Yogiri having NPI, he still couldn't see or interact with the Lord of Specters. My goal was to show you that the Lord of Specters isn't just a spiritual or abstract being; because if he were, Yogiri would have perceived him and killed him instantly. It was my way of demonstrating that the Lord of Specters is a non-existent being. However, I forgot there’s a part of the LN stating that the Lord of Specters is indeed a spirit—otherwise, I wouldn't have even bothered dwelling on this point
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- #108
Yeah, that reasoning could hold up, but the problem is that Oblivion sent a scan showing that Yogiri couldn't see the Lord of Specters because the latter wasn't attacking him directly. Well, at least that's what he was trying to explain.
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extrasensory perception is what let's the whole seeing thing happen, not non-physical interaction man.
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No, visibility has nothing to do with what he can kill, and that’s exactly what I’ve been trying to clarify. If we follow that logic, how do you explain his ability to kill abstract concepts and information, even though abstract concepts have no form, no physical existence, no physical properties, and cannot be seen, nor do they have any intent to kill or target him? Yet, when he decides to erase them, he is able to do so.
How do you explain his ability to perceive and kill souls and ghosts, while he couldn’t perceive the Lord of Specters, even though it is ultimately still a ghost?
How do you explain Yogiri’s own statement where he clearly said that it isn’t real—meaning he outright denied its existence, that it is not real and does not exist at all—while at the same time he knows there is something there interacting and restraining her? He knows something is present, yet also knows it is not real and does not exist. Regardless of perception, he is capable of interacting with non-physical entities, as shown by his non-physical interaction ability, so there should be no issue in targeting and killing it unless it is in a completely different state.
The only explanation is that the Lord of Specters has NEP 1. That explains everything: it is not real, it does not exist at all, just as Yogiri stated. Yogiri had to assume its existence in order to kill this hypothetical entity, and assuming the existence of something means it did not actually exist in the first place. Despite knowing something was there, he also knew it was not real and nonexistent, which is why he needed to assume its existence to kill it.
I do not agree with what Oblivion said, because, with all due respect, his reasoning is incorrect.
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I’ve seen what Oblivion said, and his reasoning is not correct.Brother, the madara pfp guy understood this better than you.
The ghost was there (not nonexistent) it just wasn't targeting Yogiri. This is a nothing-burger explanation for any ability additions and oblivion already explained what it would give. Once again, as I said before, you're being obtuse.
Remember when you said me getting involved with you was a bad move? Long as you keep BEING obtuse I'll still have stuff to disagree about. How about you go actually read the novel like -genuine fan- and try again later.
Simultaneously true it looks like. At least skyblade apologized for missing the context of the Aca 1 scan.
Yogiri is capable of interacting with ghosts, spirits, information, abstract concepts, and so on, as shown in his profile.
The matter of “seeing” is not important and doesn’t really add anything. Yogiri does not need to see something in order to kill it—he can kill abstract concepts and information, all of which are non-physical, have no material properties or form, and cannot be seen. Yet he can still interact with and eliminate them whenever he wants. Are you also going to claim that abstract concepts have killing intent toward him, and that’s why he erases them? He personally decides who to kill, even without any killing intent from the target, and he has done this multiple times. So intent has no relevance here; he can choose to kill anyone he wants regardless.
The Lord of Specters is still a ghost in the end, and Yogiri can interact with ghosts as demonstrated, and even perceive them.
However, this particular entity was something he could not interact with normally, and he explicitly stated that it was not real, meaning it does not exist at all. Even though Yogiri knows that something is there, it is not real and does not exist in a logical sense. When he went to kill it, he had to assume its existence in order to do so. The fact that he assumed its existence means it was not actually existent in the first place—he had to posit its existence just to eliminate it.
Yogiri can interact with ghosts, but the Lord of Specters possesses NEP 1 for the reasons I explained to you and to Madara in my previous reply.
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How about instead of assuming everybody everywhere and their mom is incorrect, you assume that you're missing something if even your own teammates aren't fully in on agreeing with you, whether multiple times, once, or even none at all.
You would learn great from that, but even that's hard to witness when you don't put as much effort into full on three-dimensional thinking than reading words on a page to the utmost highest end. Then again, I find it hard as well to read mid and thus fall asleep from it.
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This response is proof that my argument is correct, since you were unable to refute what I said and instead resorted to this kind of statement.
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it's hard for me to take much seriously when you couldn't comprehend much of what people who -actually read the book- while taking into account the translation differences pointed out in prior threads and decide to ignore it to send the thread into a circle (including even right now) because you like to give stuff that shouldn’t be on midgiris profile, yes.
just keep larping like you're the hero of instant death buddy, make THAT into a tiktok.
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- #115
??Extrasensory perception is just about going beyond conventional senses. The problem here is that it’s extremely difficult to argue that the Lord of Specters only has incorporeality. Even regarding the extrasensory perception you're talking about, Yogiri already has that since he can see the black lines of death.
If we assume the Lord of Specters doesn't have NEP, then it could be a different form of abstraction—one superior to the other abstract concepts Yogiri can already interact with. All things considered, I think there must be some kind of specific physiology involved. I doubt it’s informational abstraction, as Yogiri can already interact with those types of information. Maybe we're talking about an imaginary being or something along those lines; those are the only attributes that really make sense here.
And I also shouldn't forget: the fact that he can 'assume' the existence of being and then kill that hypothesis is a feat that shouldn't be overlooked either.
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So far, you are unable to respond and are avoiding the argument. I don’t understand why you are talking about TikTok at all, and I don’t see what it has to do with anything here. I am not a content creator on TikTok, and I don’t post anything on it.
I am simply someone who is willing to accept only what is logical and fair. I will not agree with anything that is illogical or incorrect just because of majority opinion or because of opponents, even if they are from the same side. I only agree if the argument is correct. Otherwise, even if the whole world is against me, I will not agree with them if the argument is wrong.
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Yes, this is correct, and this is exactly what I have been trying to say. Furthermore, he is also capable of interacting with ghosts, and the Lord of Specters is, after all, a ghost. His inability to interact with it despite that also supports the idea that it has NEP 1, based on what Yogiri himself stated—that it is not real and does not exist. He only assumed its existence in order to kill it, which implies it does not actually exist, even though he is aware that something is interacting and present there. Still, he explicitly stated that it is unreal and not real, and proceeded to assume its existence in order to kill it.
Yes, this indicates that he is capable of killing non-existent entities simply by assuming their existence. Even if they are not actually present, once he considers something as existing, he can kill it based on that assumption, and this ultimately leads us to the same conclusion.
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- #118
Yeah, we definitely need to see what the moderators think about this. If he can assume an entity's existence just to kill it, does that automatically grant him the ability to assume an 'inexistent' being exists in order to kill it too? Thinking about it, that doesn't seem far-fetched at all, so let’s wait and see what the mods have to say on the matter.
Otherwise, all things considered, regarding the exact nature of the Lord of Specters, it must be some form of abstraction that is different from—or even superior to—the ones Yogiri can already interact with. It’s something that slightly resembles the abstractions discussed in Platonism (though I’m not saying that’s necessarily what it is)
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aight so with the new discussion rule, what's happening with this CRT?
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- #120
What's the new rule? Could someone please clarify this for me?"
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