Major rework for our favorite yogiri and ueg

[Azertyhuuh]

Also, the plot is just a metaphor in ID.

Spoiler

Ahh, this has gotten a bit weird. I think we’ve gone in a meta direction,” Ende said.Ryoma’s deduction was a misunderstanding that Outers and those who learned about worldviews commonly fell into. Ende compared the various worldviews to stories herself, but to her, that was nothing but a metaphor. She had never thought that by thinking of the world as a fabrication, and yourself as a character in that world, that you could deny the world itself

No, that’s incorrect.

This applies only to her, because the characters/things in Neechan wa Chuunibyou are nothing more than characters/things within her book.

 

[SkyBlade6635]

Also, the plot is just a metaphor in ID.

Spoiler

Ahh, this has gotten a bit weird. I think we’ve gone in a meta direction,” Ende said.Ryoma’s deduction was a misunderstanding that Outers and those who learned about worldviews commonly fell into. Ende compared the various worldviews to stories herself, but to her, that was nothing but a metaphor. She had never thought that by thinking of the world as a fabrication, and yourself as a character in that world, that you could deny the world itself

You’re making a hasty generalization fallacy Look at While there might be a mention of a metaphor in one specific context, that doesn’t mean every mention of 'the plot' in the Instant Death verse is metaphorical This is also a fallacy of proof by example here . There’s zero proof of that.
In the scan I just sent, it’s impossible to argue for a metaphor without making the entire sentence nonsensical. As I explained, it would be tautological. Ask anyone to do a semantic analysis of the phrase: 'In the face of such an existence, things like fate and the plot are nothing more than a joke.' No honest person would claim that 'plot' is just a metaphor for 'fate' here. Grammar doesn't work that way. When a sentence uses the structure 'things like...', it implies a list of distinct concepts, not a repetition. Saying 'things like fate and fate' makes no sense.
The debunks from Sweet Dao and Dark Soul completely missed this detail. Their arguments were focused on the Plot Manipulation of Yukimasa and Aoi; that was their entire premise. Dark Soul shared the scan I provided but cherry-picked the part saying, 'It is precisely because he is the End that he will always remain at the end,' just to support his own point. He didn't even finish the sentence to account for the full context—he just highlighted what suited him. You cannot reduce the nature of 'The End' to being just the end of 'fate' and not 'the plot' when the sentence is this clear and leaves no room for the 'metaphor' excuse

 

[Azertyhuuh]

So hello everyone, as you can see, there’s going to be a rework of some of Yogiri’s abilities, starting with his Instant Death. First, let’s take a look at this
So here we see Yogiri (the Avatar version, of course) being attacked in the past (even killed), but his present-day self hasn’t been affected. This simply implies that there is no cause-and-effect relationship between his past self and his present self, which should grant Yogiri Type 1 acausality.

Yes, I agree regarding Type 1 acausality, as the matter appears to be completely clear.

2) So here it’s very simple: I’ll put this and this So, through these two panels, we’re told that Yogiri’s (the Avatar’s) existence is protected by a meta-story, so normally any kind of plot manipulation shouldn’t affect Yogiri, but let’s continue. It’s already been shown several times that Yogiri (the Avatar) is in homeostasis with his True Form (the END) so normally Yogiri (the Avatar) cannot do anything that his True Form is not capable of doing, given that the Avatar is merely a manifestation. So let’s go and demonstrate this. It is stated here that Yogiri’s true form—that is, The End—is beyond fate and plot So this means that the End is above concepts such as fate and plot, and regarding fate, this has already been proven several times, notably against Aoi and against Yukimasa. So, broadly speaking, this whole section is like an anaphora/ repetition that reinforces the first part, so it’s a sort of rhetorical device to emphasise the true form of Yogiri, which should give Yogiri resistance to plot manipulation—or rather, immunity, given that the plot cannot even apply to him—so I think immunity is quite consistent
Consequently, Yogiri should also benefit from Type 2 acausality, given that not only does the manipulation of fate not affect him, but his future is also inaccessible because Aoi’s precognition didn’t work. Admittedly, his profile already includes resistance to the manipulation of fate, but it would be more consistent to apply Type 2 acausality for greater clarity

Yes, I also agree regarding Type 2 acausality, as Yogiri’s future is inaccessible and cannot be observed or influenced. This was clearly shown when Yukimasa attempted to manipulate fate, but fate consistently negated itself and failed, and it was also stated that all fates would eventually return to him as well.

Type 4 acausality should also be added, because the novel states that he transcends the very concept of causality itself. Therefore, he is completely outside the normal causal framework, and it is stated that all of his actions are not related to cause and effect.

3) For this section, let’s look together at what the wiki (vsbw) says so the vsbw tells us that NEP 1 is material non-existence; in binary terms, this corresponds to 0 (non-existence), and the vsbw defines NEP 2 as idealistic non-existence, so the subject is neither 0 (non-existence) nor 1 (existence). However, the VSBW states that these kinds of beings may have a non-conventional existence, i.e. prior or opposite
Now that this is clear, let’s look at this [so here we have a situation/ an equation involving Yogiri and the Lord of Spectres, where Yogiri could not see this pseudo-being despite possessing NPI ability; Yogiri therefore had to assume the existence of this being in order to kill it; so here the being has no material existence, hence Type 1 NEP, but the being in question also has a non-conventional existence because it exists as an idea, so it has a form of idealistic existence, given that it is a hypothetical being, and basically a hypothetical being is one that exists as a hypothesis or an idea; this is therefore a form of Type 2 Nep. If we correlate this with the definition of VSBW, the wiki also specifies that this is a form of paraconsistent physiology, so obviously this is Type 2]( ) To help some people understand the situation properly, let’s take an example. Right now, I’m thinking of a being with three heads and four feet. Technically, this being is neither existent nor non-existent; it’s just an idea of mine. Its existence falls under another unconventional form, which is ‘the idea’ here, as the wiki clearly states. So it’s just a supposition (hypothesis) on my part; otherwise, the being with three heads and four feet does not exist. We can therefore call it a hypothetical being, and well, it is this type of being that our beloved Yoghurt has stumbled upon

Yes, I also agree with this. It is clearly stated that Yogiri is capable of perceiving ghosts, spirits, and even completely hidden entities, as well as everything across all time and space.

The Lord of Specters was not actually existing, yet he behaves as if he does. This is a form of physiological contradiction, where he is both existent and non-existent at the same time, and can still interact.

There was only one solution: Yogiri had to simply assume that something existed and kill it. Through this assumption alone, he was able to kill it, because “not existing and existing at the same time” means it lies outside the binary of existence. All Yogiri did was recognize that he was operating under an assumption of existence, and that was sufficient to kill it.

Yes, I also agree with this, as the matter seems clear. Therefore, Yogiri would have:

Nonexistence Erasure (Nature Type 2; Aspects Type 1, 2, 3)

4) Yogiri should be exempt from Type 6 immortality because he killed Iselda, who possesses parasitic immortality; indeed, she was able to switch bodies every time she was killed within a specific body, so she has Type 6 immortality, as the wiki clearly states [here is the relevant scan]( )

5) Upon entering Mitsuki’s dream world, a law was imposed stipulating that anyone killed by Yogiri cannot return to life [here]( ), so Yogiri should benefit from Law Manipulation

Regarding the negation of Type 6 immortality, I am neutral here, but I lean toward agreement because it is stated that the characters and things he kills cannot return to life. Thus, Yogiri’s killing of all possible vessels on Islanda was due to his ignorance of Islanda’s location—he did not know which one among more than 60 million people it was, which led him to kill all entities in order to eliminate it.

However, if he had targeted it directly, it would not have been able to transfer into any other vessel, and it would have died permanently. What happened instead was a result of Yogiri not knowing its exact location among 60 million—or even far more, possibly an uncountable number. Otherwise, it would not have been able to return once he directly targeted it.

For this reason, I lean toward agreement.

6) Yogiri’s true form should also benefit from physiological non-existence, given that his true form, ‘The End’, represents non-existence—where existence and non-existence

So nep 1 for true form yogiri

Regarding NEP1 for his true form, I would prefer it to have NEP2, as this is the more appropriate classification for him. His true form is the end of everything, and therefore it is something that is completely non-existent and nihilistic, while at the same time it is also existent, since it can interact, attack, and kill.

For this reason, it fully transcends the binary of existence and non-existence. It is a form of paraconsistent physiology, as it does not represent either nonexistence or existence, but instead goes beyond these definitions, behaving as if it is both existent and non-existent simultaneously (0 representing nonexistence and 1 representing existence, while it exists entirely outside this binary system).

Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Type 2; Aspects Type 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 [Other: Logic, Fate, Law, History,

7) Now this part will be crucial, because I’m going to explain why UEG’s regeneration is far from being mere ‘low godly’; so, to put it simply, we’re going to define a few terms
‘A being’ is everything that exists
‘Being’ is the principle common to all beings
“Substance” is the basis of existence, and substance is also immutable (according to Aristotle)
“Accident” is everything that happens to the being but does not affect the substance. Let’s take the example of a table made of wood: here, the wood represents the substance and the table is the being
“Secondary substance/essence/ 'quiddity' is what enables the being to be what it is. Let’s take another example with a triangle: a triangle’s essence is having three sides, a square’s essence is having four sides. In other words, essence can be used in the form of predicates; for example, if I say that a triangle has three sides, I am making a predicate of the triangle.
Just to say that all of this contributes to existence; therefore, existence is composed of substance, quiddity, and the physical (material) body. I would remind you that essence is a metaphysical aspect, just like substance, and for us human beings, our essence is our ‘soul’, in short.
Now let’s look at Rick’s ability. Well, first of all, it’s said that Rick has a conceptual advantage in killing gods via his sacred sword; so, to put it simply, his sword isn’t ordinary but a special sword that kills on a conceptual level, and this very same sword was used to kill Vahanato, though not in the same way as with Ueg, because Vahanato already had a wound and Rick stabbed the sword right into that spot and killed him; whereas in Ueg’s case, she also had a wound and had lost her leg, but as you can see, it is literally stated that Ueg cannot be killed in that area like Vahanato, because it is not an essential part of her existence
So this implies that to kill Ueg, you have to destroy a part that is essential to his existence, but what exactly is this so-called essential part? Let’s go
So here Rick uses his exceptional sword, which has a conceptual advantage in targeting Ueg’s divine core, since technically destroying his body serves no purpose; you must therefore target the part where his essence/ quiddity, and to make this clear, it is explicitly stated that an ordinary sword cannot reach UEG’s divine core; so, of course, Rick’s sword was able to make the exception due to this conceptual advantage it possesses. So, to put it plainly, there are two options here: either the divine core represents merely a metaphysical part of Ueg, or it is the very concept of Ueg’s being, due to the nature of the sword, which holds a conceptual advantage over the gods. All things considered, this should correspond to mid-to-high-level godly regeneration, as Ueg returned immediately after his erasure
I can already see some people coming along to say, ‘Yeah, but it doesn’t say that the divine core is his soul’ or ‘it doesn’t say that the divine core is his spirit...’ Calm down. In metaphysics, particularly in Aristotle and St Thomas Aquinas, and in Friedrich Nietzsche too, ‘being = human beings only’ is false; it is an unjustified false claim; it is a fabrication, because ‘being’ in the etymological sense in metaphysics represents everything that is: a tree is a being, a human being is a being, the lion is a being, a telephone is a being... Just to let you know that the soul and the spirit represent merely the metaphysical aspects of the human being, and in a fictional verse there is no need to mention these terms; indeed, metaphysical terms may have other qualifications (other names), but they all share an identical property, and that is fortunate, as the VSBW explicitly mentions this on its metaphysics page
Metaphysical equivalence: in works of fiction, it is difficult to list all metaphysical aspects, such as the Dao, essence, ether... Can represent the metaphysical elements in works of fiction but as I said, every metaphysical aspect has the same function, which is to give meaning to existence.
So, obviously, the essence/concept of UEG lies within its divine core, which was struck by a conceptual sword, because it is said that an ordinary sword (a simple sword) cannot reach this part (the essence) of UEG. I think I’ve said too much, so in short, UEG should achieve mid-godly or even high-godly regeneration (if we interpret that the concept of UEG’s being lies within its divine core and that Rick’s sword, which attacks conceptually, erases this concept) and, of course, consequently, Yogiri should be denied mid-godly or even high-godly regeneration, as UEG was unable to return after being erased by the Endless Void (which allows nothing to exist).

Regarding UEG, the essence of the gods is the primary source and the basis of existence for all gods. Destroying the essence of the gods means the end of the gods themselves. The essence of the gods is, in short, the concept of divine existence. However, some higher gods are capable of surviving even after their source is destroyed, because they can also regenerate their source and return to life. They can survive even the destruction of their fundamental source—the essence of divine existence—as they are among the highest-tier gods.

The conceptual sword is a sword capable of cutting anything on a conceptual level, and it can destroy gods conceptually; it is specifically designed for this purpose. The erasure of the divine essence, which represents the very concept of a character’s existence, is possible with it. Even so, UEG is still able to return after the destruction of its source of existence. This does not apply to all gods, but only to supreme gods such as UEG; therefore, not all other gods possess high-godly regeneration. UEG is able to regenerate after the destruction of its divine source—which is the foundation of its existence and its existential concept—in less than a second, meaning it possesses high-godly regeneration.

Mitsuki was capable of erasing anything from existence. However, this erasure was not ordinary; it could erase a character from past, future, present, and even from all history entirely. It essentially means that you were never existent at all. There was never anything such as UEG or anything else, because Mitsuki is the Dreamer. As he stated, any character he simply forgets within his dream ceases to exist completely, as if it had never existed, and no one would know it ever did because he is the Dreamer. Naturally, if he forgets something in his dream, it is erased as if it never existed, and no one will remember it—as if UEG never existed in the Instant Death narrative.

However, UEG was still able to return from this erasure, which is why Mitsuki only sealed her instead.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Yes, I agree regarding Type 1 acausality, as the matter appears to be completely clear.

Yeah so with Hecker pretty much going over everything of why I disagree, I'll just handle the last thing.

Yoshifumi's Wandering Edge ability didn't hit Yogiri as seen here where Miss Fox counters the ability so it didn't attack baby Yogiri at all (going on to call that one of the worst things he'd have tried and done).

So yeah, hard disagree for Acausality 1 due to OP cropping out the related scans and context.

So you're back to not reading again and just blatantly going along with someone who either didn't read as well to give an unjustified ability or (on a higher end) purposefully cropped scans to try and pass it off as a goofy ability to give it shamelessly.

I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but now you and them are just just being obtuse. Again.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

So you're back to not reading again and just blatantly going along with someone who either didn't read as well to give an unjustified ability or (on a higher end) purposefully cropped scans to try and pass it off as a goofy ability to give it shamelessly.

I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but now you and them are just just being obtuse. Again.

She explicitly stated that targeting him when he was a child would be the worst possible thing, which indicates the severity of the event itself. If it had reached him, it would have resulted in a massive catastrophe. From her statement, it seems that attacking him as a child would not have changed the future in any meaningful way, but would instead only cause an extremely severe disaster. It would have been the worst possible outcome overall.

I still agree with Type 1 acausality. Yes, she intercepted the knife, but you cannot deny that if that knife had reached its target, an immense catastrophe would have occurred, and it would not have changed the future—it would have been, quite literally, the worst possible outcome. She was even trembling and screaming out of fear, unable to control the tone of her voice.

I disagree with you again.

You fool. You total idiot. Aiming at him when he was a child was the

worst thing you could have done." The fox made no attempt to hide her disdain.

"What? What's goin' on? What hell is this?!" Yoshifumi shouted.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

She explicitly stated that targeting him when he was a child would be the worst possible thing, which indicates the severity of the event itself. If it had reached him, it would have resulted in a massive catastrophe. From her statement, it seems that attacking him as a child would not have changed the future in any meaningful way, but would instead only cause an extremely severe disaster. It would have been the worst possible outcome overall.

You're either larping like never before greater than these tiktok people/stuck up redditors or just blatantly don't see that the OP lied to your face cause they essentially said that yogiri died as a baby because of the wandering edge.

Context and everything might be lost on you here.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Let it be known that regarding most of these Instant Death fans you can blatantly straight up lie and somehow those who agree will still somehow manage to figure that 'this can't be a lie' or they just smooth over the lie with another portion of reasoning.

@sukuna171 I'm beginning to appreciate you more.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Ehhhhh I didn't want to involve to it(idk I wasn't self-banned) but how it makes easier to understand? Thread is basically ragebait for any philosophy fan or learner.

You guys dropping "phenomena", "necessary being" and similar words to justify ton of abilities. It is ridicilous and absolute cringe. Not to mention whatever you are proposing doesn't nearly correlate to what was written as "necessary being", whatsover, you could propose way more abilities rather than simply limiting yourself to "Nonduality, Nonexistence. bla bla". W Philosophy larping.

Now let's go actually what was proposed

Spoiler: Plot, Fate, Acausality Type 2

We already went through this multiple times. You don't need to prove negative tracking. Please read actually before proposing same arguments that has been rejected again and again. As for Fate thingy his profile has already resistance to Fate and if there is no resistance to Precognition, we could add it(But idk where is scan, where he resists Precog which you said?). I don't agree simply resisting Fate, Precog would equal to character only existing in Present and getting full immunity. It is not like we have statement about "There is only present form of Yogiri" or something. Disagree with immunity to Plot Manipulation, Fate Manipulation and Acausality Type 2.

Spoiler: NEP2, PP2

Nonexistence part is absolute cringe. Let's go what is wrong with it
1. You are supposing every NPI works against NEP. Non-Physical Interaction is interaction with something that doesn't exist physically. Ghost doesn't exist physically. BDE 1 doesn't exist physically. Abstract doesn't exist physically. Literally lot things don't exist physically. Yogiri doesn't have NPI for NEP. + Simply incorporeality isn't enough for NEP . Literally what we see: "It doesn't exist". We don't know WHICH PART OF IT DOESN'T EXIST TO GIVE YOUR CHARACTER NEP.
2. You: It doesn't exist thus NEP 1, also you: BUT IT WAS STATED AS IT EXISTING AS IDEA THUS NEP 2 CUZ NEP 2 IS IDEALISTIC NONEXISTENCE

Define to me what is nonexistence that is not nonexistence and existence and what is existing as idea.

3. You are literally misreading NEP 2. It is not always every NEP 2 gets PP. It is stated: These characters often have some form of Paraconsistent Physiology . But not ALWAYS. It doesn't mean every NEP 2 gets PP2. + It is not even close to what is PP2. Nonexistence + Existence alone qualifies for only ONE DUALITY meaning you will get PP1 at best

Spoiler: High-Mid Godly Regen

Mid-High Godly Regen, pretty sure it was ongoing there? So let's go by what is High Godly Regen:

High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, soul, and at least one other fundamental aspect of a character's existence. Such an aspect could be their place in the narrative, their history, their information (Type 2), their concept, or something else along those lines. For any aspect to qualify, destruction of that aspect must cause erasure of the character in some form, and evidence must exist that the character cannot exist without that fundamental aspect existing as well. In addition, it must not be something that regenerating the body, mind, or soul would ordinarily restore. As such, take care when evaluating Type 3 concepts, and aspects that are not sufficiently expanded upon to make a judgment will not qualify.

Mid-Godly: The ability to regenerate from the complete erasure of one's body, mind, and soul.

What we see: Existence Erasure that can erase concept(No soul, mind whatsover). It is Low-Godly. Something already UEG and other gods have.

Per Agnaa's comment you essentially need to prove all meta aspects that is present in Godly Regen parts getting erased. What you proved -> Concept Erasure. What you didn't -> Mind and Soul. So what makes it Mid-High Godly come again?

I already mentioned, using association fallacy to prove Yogiri's some abilities through philosophical word is cringe. It is easy to understand author didn't mean it. I mean author uses Tegmark Theory without even understanding what is that. How tf you came to such conclusions as if Fujitaka is Philosophy Guru?

I heavily disagree with thread, and won't engage further. I randomly saw it and was ragebaited by seeing things that doesn't even correlate. Genuinely ngl, one of the worst threads I have ever seen.

Only thing probably you could argue is Ac1. And lastly:

Hahaha, I disagree with you for the reasons I mentioned in my comment. Also, please calm down, don’t be this biased.

I don’t understand how you can say that things which were previously rejected should not be discussed again??? Haha, that’s really funny. Don’t you know that things can change? Maybe the person who argued before was not an expert or didn’t know everything, or maybe the person who downgraded something ignored points that could actually invalidate the downgrade?
I don’t understand how you’re saying it’s forbidden to talk about things that were already rejected.

As I said, you should be respectful.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

I don’t understand how you can say that things which were previously rejected should not be discussed again??? Haha, that’s really funny. Don’t you know that things can change?

this is why the verse is getting a discussion rule.

 

[Hecky2222]

Hahaha, I disagree with you for the reasons I mentioned in my comment. Also, please calm down, don’t be this biased.

I don’t understand how you can say that things which were previously rejected should not be discussed again??? Haha, that’s really funny. Don’t you know that things can change? Maybe the person who argued before was not an expert or didn’t know everything, or maybe the person who downgraded something ignored points that could actually invalidate the downgrade?
I don’t understand how you’re saying it’s forbidden to talk about things that were already rejected.

As I said, you should be respectful.

None of your points addresses mine. I simply ignored OP's response cuz they didn't give meaningful refutation also.

Also what the heck do you mean by rejected topics and discussion? Don't tell me you didn't rule about 3 month gap about rejected topics?????????????

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Maybe the person who argued before was not an expert or didn’t know everything, or maybe the person who downgraded something ignored points that could actually invalidate the downgrade?

About 2 or 3 points of this CRT refers to points you brought up less than a Month ago, were rejected and closed, and brings literally no new information about it. Stop talking about whatabouts.

If something was ignored, you should've brought it up when you had your time. Or ask the OP to explicitely mention how there is a certain scan that no one had noticed up until now. Right now, you are repeating literally the same arguments that have been rejected less than a week ago for Plot Manipulation like the Neechan thing (just arguing for Immunity instead of Resistance... but if it didn't work for resistance, it would work less for immunity bruh). Or the arguments for Immortality Type 6 negation that were rejected less than a Month ago due to Yogiri killing all the hive mind (range) instead of negating Immortality type 6 iirc.

CRTs is not an endless try again and again a single argument until it passes. If a certain line of argumentation got debunked and rejected, it can't be used again unless a change of standards was made or new information drops, which isn't the case here.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

None of your points addresses mine. I simply ignored OP's response cuz they didn't give meaningful refutation also.

Also what the heck do you mean by rejected topics and discussion? Don't tell me you didn't rule about 3 month gap about rejected topics?????????????

And did you say anything meaningful in your response to actually address mine? You didn’t respond to the issue of Type 2 acausality, and regarding plot manipulation, I didn’t even bring it up either.

As for your response to NEP1 and NEP2, it is incorrect, and I already clarified this in my comment. Yogiri is capable of interacting with and perceiving everything, and since he was unable to see or detect the Lord of Specters, that is evidence of NEP2. The reason is that the Lord of Specters transcends the binary of existence and nonexistence—being both existent and non-existent, which means a state beyond this duality.

Non-Physical Interaction (Can kill ghosts, souls, data, abstract concepts, information, etc.)

Yogiri killed him through a purely hypothetical assumption of existence, which means he was either not actually existent at all or existed in a state beyond this binary entirely. Therefore, Yogiri would have NEP2 negation. You can of course debate me on this, as I have more details, and I am ready for a long discussion with you right now in front of everyone, since this is not all I have.

 

[Hecky2222]

And did you say anything meaningful in your response to actually address mine? You didn’t respond to the issue of Type 2 acausality, and regarding plot manipulation, I didn’t even bring it up either.

As for your response to NEP1 and NEP2, it is incorrect, and I already clarified this in my comment. Yogiri is capable of interacting with and perceiving everything, and since he was unable to see or detect the Lord of Specters, that is evidence of NEP2. The reason is that the Lord of Specters transcends the binary of existence and nonexistence—being both existent and non-existent, which means a state beyond this duality.



Yogiri killed him through a purely hypothetical assumption of existence, which means he was either not actually existent at all or existed in a state beyond this binary entirely. Therefore, Yogiri would have NEP2 negation. You can of course debate me on this, as I have more details, and I am ready for a long discussion with you right now in front of everyone, since this is not all I have.

1. You are supposing every NPI works against NEP. Non-Physical Interaction is interaction with something that doesn't exist physically. Ghost doesn't exist physically. BDE 1 doesn't exist physically. Abstract doesn't exist physically. Literally lot things don't exist physically. Yogiri doesn't have NPI for NEP. + Simply incorporeality isn't enough for NEP . Literally what we see: "It doesn't exist". We don't know WHICH PART OF IT DOESN'T EXIST TO GIVE YOUR CHARACTER NEP.
2. You: It doesn't exist thus NEP 1, also you: BUT IT WAS STATED AS IT EXISTING AS IDEA THUS NEP 2 CUZ NEP 2 IS IDEALISTIC NONEXISTENCE

Define to me what is nonexistence that is not nonexistence and existence and what is existing as idea.

What do you think, why did I write this?

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

I'd also ask: Isn't the statement of Yogiri being the end of fate/plot made by Aoi's impression of Yogiri after trying to look at his fate value? So, wouldn't it matter the most what the concept of "plot" means to her, rather than what it means to any other character of other verse with no relationship to her?

Maybe the LN makes the event happen differently, but at least the manga makes it look as if it is her impression of Yogiri being the end of fate. So, if for her "plot" is nothing but a metaphor and she doesn't know about plot being a metaphysical concept (assuming it is), why would said metaphysical concept even apply?

If I'm wrong on any line of reasoning feel free to correct me

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

I'd also ask: Isn't the statement of Yogiri being the end of fate/plot made by Aoi's impression of Yogiri after trying to look at his fate value? So, wouldn't it matter the most what the concept of "plot" means to her, rather than what it means to any other character of other verse with no relationship to her?

this would be a point if we didn't literally nuke plot stuff in a previous crt cause this effectively was proven wrong as it being a metaphor stretches beyond just what aoi says and even into nee-chan

 

[Azertyhuuh]

What do you think, why did I write this?

I’m talking about NEP2 negation and the Lord of Specters having NEP2. Let’s set aside PP2 for now.

Respond to my argument regarding NEP2.

 

[Hecky2222]

I’m talking about NEP2 negation and the Lord of Specters having NEP2. Let’s set aside PP2 for now.

Respond to my argument regarding NEP2.

Read carefully again or do you need to me to use Arabic?

 

[SkyBlade6635]

this is why the verse is getting a discussion rule.

Regarding Plot Manipulation immunity, I’ve seen the CRT from Sweet Dao and Dark, and the arguments they presented aren't necessarily true. Also, saying that almost all the moderators agree on the plot manipulation issue is honestly funny. Moderators judge based on the arguments presented to them; if Dark and Sweet post a debunk and no one provides a convincing counter-argument, then obviously the mods will lean their way.
The way you're talking makes me think you haven't even read my arguments on plot manipulation or Dark’s CRT, haha. I literally explained the difference. Dark focused on one specific scan to deny Aoi's plot manipulation—which is fine, anyone would support that—but he never analyzed the part where it says: 'In the face of such an existence, things like fate and the plot are nothing more than a joke.
Dark didn't analyze that section, and I’m presenting a counter-argument that was never brought up in that CRT. I defy anyone to refute my semantic analysis of that sentence. As I’ve said, grammar has rules. There is no world in which the word 'plot' here can be interpreted as a metaphor given the structure of the sentence. I’ve explained this multiple times now. Liewtistar presented an argument I agreed with, but it was contextual; it doesn't apply to the entire work. Sukuna tried to justify it as well, but he committed a proof by example fallacy and a hasty generalization fallacy, which I’ve already addressed. So, for now, please focus on refuting the actual argument I’ve posted here before dismissing anything. Thanks

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Regarding Plot Manipulation immunity, I’ve seen the CRT from Sweet Dao and Dark, and the arguments they presented aren't necessarily true. Also, saying that almost all the moderators agree on the plot manipulation issue is honestly funny. Moderators judge based on the arguments presented to them; if Dark and Sweet post a debunk and no one provides a convincing counter-argument, then obviously the mods will lean their way.
The way you're talking makes me think you haven't even read my arguments on plot manipulation or Dark’s CRT, haha. I literally explained the difference. Dark focused on one specific scan to deny Aoi's plot manipulation—which is fine, anyone would support that—but he never analyzed the part where it says: 'In the face of such an existence, things like fate and the plot are nothing more than a joke.
Dark didn't analyze that section, and I’m presenting a counter-argument that was never brought up in that CRT. I defy anyone to refute my semantic analysis of that sentence. As I’ve said, grammar has rules. There is no world in which the word 'plot' here can be interpreted as a metaphor given the structure of the sentence. I’ve explained this multiple times now. Liewtistar presented an argument I agreed with, but it was contextual; it doesn't apply to the entire work. Sukuna tried to justify it as well, but he committed a proof by example fallacy and a hasty generalization fallacy, which I’ve already addressed. So, for now, please focus on refuting the actual argument I’ve posted here before dismissing anything. Thanks

You DO realize aois statement simultaneously applies to yogiri as it would most other characters who have the same 'plot/fate protection' function right? It helps him YES but it's no entire way it's not simultaneously a general one.

The translations don't even cover plot or the 'plot' as proven before in other threads you try and argue for actively does not exist, and you STILL LIED on Acausality Type 1 by cropping out the context and scan.

 

[SkyBlade6635]

Je demanderais également : la déclaration selon laquelle Yogiri est la fin du destin/de l'intrigue n'est-elle pas faite par l'impression qu'Aoi a de Yogiri après avoir essayé d'examiner sa valeur de destin ? Alors, n'est-ce pas ce que le concept d'« intrigue » signifie pour elle qui importe le plus, plutôt que ce qu'il signifie pour tout autre personnage d'un autre vers sans rapport avec elle ?

Peut-être que le LN fait en sorte que l'événement se produise différemment, mais au moins le manga donne l'impression que c'est son impression que Yogiri est la fin du destin. Donc, si pour elle « l’intrigue » n’est rien d’autre qu’une métaphore et qu’elle ne sait pas si l’intrigue est un concept métaphysique (en supposant que ce soit le cas), pourquoi ce concept métaphysique s’appliquerait-il ?

Si je me trompe sur n'importe quel raisonnement, n'hésitez pas à me corriger

Okay, your reasoning is sound and the point you raised is relevant. However, let me try to explain the actual problem here. What Aoi was doing isn't exactly a metaphor, but rather hyperbole—he exaggerates the term 'destiny' by occasionally substituting it with 'plot' to emphasize his perspective. A metaphor is a figure of speech involving a comparison without a comparative word That said, this doesn't mean Aoi doesn't understand what 'the plot' actually is. I hope you follow me?
Continuing from there, when Aoi states, 'In the face of such an existence, things like fate and the plot are nothing more than a joke,' we can no longer claim that 'plot' is being used metaphorically or hyperbolically. The reason is simple: the sentence uses an enumeration of distinct concepts. By starting with 'things like...' (in the plural), it indicates that more than one thing is being discussed.
As I’ve mentioned multiple times, in grammar, the word 'and' acts as a coordinating conjunction that links different concepts (A and B) such that A \neq B. If we assume Aoi is only talking about destiny and that 'plot' is just a metaphor, the sentence becomes nonsensical. It would be like Aoi saying, 'In the face of such an existence, things like destiny (the first thing) and destiny (the second thing) are nothing more than a joke.'
You can see that this is tautological and logically empty. Fujitaka wouldn't write a narrative line like that just to mean 'destiny' alone. If the author truly wanted to use a metaphor, the sentence would look like this: 'In the face of such an existence, the plot is nothing more than a joke'—where 'plot' substitutes for 'destiny.' Or he could say, 'The destiny that is the plot is nothing more than a joke.' Both of those examples would be metaphorical and hyperbolic.
The original sentence, however, cannot be a metaphor given the established facts regarding tone, semantics, and syntax. I hope you understand my approach!

 

[SkyBlade6635]

You DO realize aois statement simultaneously applies to yogiri as it would most other characters who have the same 'plot/fate protection' function right? It helps him YES but it's no entire way it's not simultaneously a general one.

The translations don't even cover plot or the 'plot' as proven before in other threads you try and argue for actively does not exist, and you STILL LIED on Acausality Type 1 by cropping out the context and scan.

You still haven't refuted the core of my argument regarding the metaphor. As for the Type 1 Acausality, I wasn't lying—my intention was to say that the person who attacked Yogiri in the past intended to kill him, not that he actually did kill him. That was a slip-up on my part, and if that’s what’s causing the confusion, I apologize.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

You still haven't refuted the core of my argument regarding the metaphor.

Prove it mentions plot in the raws unlike the translations done in prior threads.

As for the Type 1 Acausality, I wasn't lying—my intention was to say that the person who attacked Yogiri in the past intended to kill him, not that he actually did kill him. That was a slip-up on my part, and if that’s what’s causing the confusion, I apologize.

Address Miss Fox stopping the kill attempt.

 

[sukuna171]

Prove it mentions plot in the raws unlike the translations done in prior threads.

Address Miss Fox stopping the kill attempt.

Even if she hadn’t stopped it, the true form would have simply destroyed or erased the knife, so Type 1 Acausality really wouldn’t apply here.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Even if she hadn’t stopped it, the true form would have simply destroyed or erased the knife, so Type 1 Acausality really wouldn’t apply here.

See I know that but OP clearly did this in spite of Miss Fox being there so clearly they don't think so

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Read carefully again or do you need to me to use Arabic?

He can interact with information, souls, data, abstract concepts, ghosts, and so on. Yogiri can perceive and see everything, even higher dimensions and all things, as he represents the end of everything.

The Lord of Specters transcends the binary of existence and nonexistence, because he was nonexistent to the point that Yogiri—who can perceive all forms and types of beings, as I told you—could not see him. This means he is both nonexistent and existent, but that is impossible; rather, it is a third state beyond the duality of existence and nonexistence, where nonexistence is 0 and existence is 1. He is neither 1 nor 0, but a state that transcends all of these.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

Keep cooking them sukuna

 

[SkyBlade6635]

What do you think, why did I write this?

With all due respect, I’ve already refuted you on this point. My argument is simple: Yogiri possesses NPI (Non-Physical Interaction) because he can interact with spirits and abstract concepts—we saw this when he killed his own kinetic energy. Despite that, he still couldn't see the Lord of Wraiths, so he had to assume the Lord existed in order to kill him.
The act of assuming the existence of 'A' implies that 'A' was not detectable or present to begin with. By assuming its existence, the entity in question becomes a hypothetical being. It still doesn't 'exist' in a conventional sense, yet Yogiri assumed it did. If the Lord of Wraiths were just a spirit or an abstract being, Yogiri wouldn’t have needed to assume its existence because his NPI would have allowed him to perceive or interact with it directly. You misunderstood my point before responding.

 

[SkyBlade6635]

Prove it mentions plot in the raws unlike the translations done in prior threads.

Address Miss Fox stopping the kill attempt.

Fine, do you want me to prove that the Kanji used actually means 'plot'?
I don't have the Japanese raw in front of me right now, but I can assure you that the Kanji used translates to 'plot.' I've seen the Japanese version before

 

[SkyBlade6635]

Even if she hadn’t stopped it, the true form would have simply destroyed or erased the knife, so Type 1 Acausality really wouldn’t apply here.

And yet, I find that to be the simplest explanation. If you're claiming that the True Form would have nullified the attack because of the homeostasis it maintains with the avatar, then you are essentially admitting that Yogiri is immune to attacks coming from the past. By your own logic, he should at least be granted 'Immunity to Past-Based Attacks.

 

[Hecky2222]

With all due respect, I’ve already refuted you on this point. My argument is simple: Yogiri possesses NPI (Non-Physical Interaction) because he can interact with spirits and abstract concepts—we saw this when he killed his own kinetic energy. Despite that, he still couldn't see the Lord of Wraiths, so he had to assume the Lord existed in order to kill him.
The act of assuming the existence of 'A' implies that 'A' was not detectable or present to begin with. By assuming its existence, the entity in question becomes a hypothetical being. It still doesn't 'exist' in a conventional sense, yet Yogiri assumed it did. If the Lord of Wraiths were just a spirit or an abstract being, Yogiri wouldn’t have needed to assume its existence because his NPI would have allowed him to perceive or interact with it directly. You misunderstood my point before responding.

Your line about existing as idea nukes whole your argument

also I already explained npi from Yogurt isn't for NEP. Or you are simply ignoring points? Or are we fr telling Yogurt NPE is accepted as NPE for NEP

What are you arguing even?

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

I disagree with this.

 

[Hecky2222]

The Lord of Specters transcends the binary of existence and nonexistence, because he was nonexistent to the point that Yogiri—who can perceive all forms and types of beings, as I told you—could not see him. This means he is both nonexistent and existent, but that is impossible; rather, it is a third state beyond the duality of existence and nonexistence, where nonexistence is 0 and existence is 1. He is neither 1 nor 0, but a state that transcends all of these.

Ehhh it is stated where even

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Your line about existing as idea nukes whole your argument

also I already explained npi from Yogurt isn't for NEP. Or you are simply ignoring points? Or are we fr telling Yogurt NPE is accepted as NPE for NEP

What are you arguing even?

Okay, his statement wasn’t mentioned in the novel at all. It might have just been a mistake, and I’ve corrected him now—he simply misunderstood the situation and was talking about an explanation of NEP2. Otherwise, the idea of “existing as a concept” doesn’t exist in the text and was never stated.

You are simply ignoring things. I know his non-physical interaction doesn’t include NEP, but we are here to add it, genius hahaha. How do you expect him to have NEP in order to interact with it? Hahaha, I don’t understand why you don’t get it—we are here to add it, so why would it already be required in the first place? No, no, no, I really don’t understand how you think, or maybe your arguments ran out and you started throwing random words.

The novel clearly states that the Lord of Specters did not exist at all. Yogiri killed him by simply assuming his existence, which means he was not existent in the first place, which is why Yogiri had to assume his existence in order to kill him. However, since he is non-existent yet still interacts as if he exists, he transcends the binary of existence and non-existence, where 0 represents non-existence and 1 represents existence. The Lord of Specters is neither 0 nor 1, but a state beyond this entire binary because, as I said, he does not exist yet behaves as if he does and interacts with his surroundings.

And from this, Yogiri proves that he can interact with NEP2 and negate it quite simply.

Please focus on your words—I’m honestly dying of laughter.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Fine, do you want me to prove that the Kanji used actually means 'plot'?
I don't have the Japanese raw in front of me right now, but I can assure you that the Kanji used translates to 'plot.' I've seen the Japanese version before

I doubt that's necessary. Iirc in the other thread one of the first messages was a translator saying the kanji truly means plot/script.

The problem relies if in that context plot refers to that metaphysical aspect. Tbh, I do agree that it is weird to state in the same sentence plot and fate as the same thing if the former is supposed to be a metaphor to refer to the latter. It's like saying water and H2O or something idk.

 

[SkyBlade6635]

Your line about existing as idea nukes whole your argument

also I already explained npi from Yogurt isn't for NEP. Or you are simply ignoring points? Or are we fr telling Yogurt NPE is accepted as NPE for NEP

What are you arguing even?

Honestly, I don’t understand your comment. Re-read my argument on NEP (Non-Existent Physiology) carefully. Azertyuuh re-explained this part here: when you say Yogiri's NPI (Non-Physical Interaction) doesn't work for NEP, what do you mean?
Our intention here is to show you that the Specter Lord has a non-existent physiology. Since we know there might be counter-arguments like "the Specter Lord is just a spirit, an abstract being and not non-existent," we used Yogiri's NPI as a pre-emptive argument to refute that. We are showing that even though Yogiri can see spirits and interact with abstractions, he could not see the Specter Lord. Because of this, he had to assume the being existed. I’m not sure if you’re following, but furthermore, your claim that my argument about the Specter Lord having an idealistic existence "destroys" my case is false.
I explained in my main argument that beings with NEP 2 possess a different, unconventional form of existence, which is exactly what Azertyuuh just showed you (the Third State). This is why I like using syllogisms to simplify my reasoning. Look at this (I know you don't like philosophical or mathematical explanations, but it's important):
Let A = The Specter Lord, B = Existence, and C = Non-Existence.
If A ==>B, then Yogiri should be able to see him.
If A ==> C, then A shouldn't be able to interact with Makomo because he would be non-existent.
Conclusion: A is non-existent (because Yogiri couldn't see him) AND A is existent (because he could interact with Makomo). It’s simple: we can say A = B and C.
Since C (non-existence) is the negation of B (existence), if you check the Omnipotence page on VSBW, there is a section dedicated to this regarding Apophaticism. VSBW generally rejects these types of contradictions because they violate the Principle of Non-Contradiction among the three laws of thought (Identity, Excluded Middle, and Non-Contradiction).
Therefore, the Specter Lord possesses a Third State outside of B and C. This is precisely what is defined as NEP 2 on the VSBW page. In binary terms, it’s neither 0 (Non-existence) nor 1 (Existence). This is why VSBW states these types of beings have an unconventional form of existence—an existence that is either 'opposite' or 'prior' to the standard concept

 

[Azertyhuuh]

I doubt that's necessary. Iirc in the other thread one of the first messages was a translator saying the kanji truly means plot/script.

The problem relies if in that context plot refers to that metaphysical aspect. Tbh, I do agree that it is weird to state in the same sentence plot and fate as the same thing if the former is supposed to be a metaphor to refer to the latter. It's like saying water and H2O or something idk.

Even I said the same thing: the novel clearly shows a very distinct difference between plot and fate. Ignoring this is just an attempt to deny the evidence.

Plot is a metaphysical aspect in Fujitaka’s world, and there are countless pieces of evidence supporting this.

Dark misunderstood the situation, which led to these incorrect conclusions, because Aoi was not originally a “Seer” holder; she only had an ability similar to that of Seer users. She possesses an ability comparable to plot manipulation, but she is not part of the Seer users category. This has already been accepted, and SweetDaw even opened a thread about it. The author himself also stated that Aoi is not a Seer holder and that her ability is only similar to theirs. This misunderstanding led to confusion and false conclusions, while the novel treats plot and fate as completely separate concepts with no relation between them. This is an example of ignoring concepts and meanings in order to push a counter-argument.

Of course, this is what happens when you conclude that plot manipulation is just fate manipulation because you based your interpretation on a character who is not even part of the group that manipulates plot in the first place and is not a Seer holder. Naturally, you end up applying the wrong assumption to the correct case.

I don’t understand why staff always rely only on the majority opinion. I really hate this about the community. There is never any real fairness—only bias and majority rule.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

First, let’s take a look at this
So here we see Yogiri (the Avatar version, of course) being attacked in the past (even killed), but his present-day self hasn’t been affected. This simply implies that there is no cause-and-effect relationship between his past self and his present self, which should grant Yogiri Type 1 acausality.

As already said in this thread, this doesnt work since Miss Fox prevented the knife from reaching past Yogiri in the first place. So there is no Acausality type 1 to be had here. The fact that it's also impossible to target Yogiri in the past negates any possibility of proving Type 1 acausality.

2) So here it’s very simple: I’ll put this and this So, through these two panels, we’re told that Yogiri’s (the Avatar’s) existence is protected by a meta-story, so normally any kind of plot manipulation shouldn’t affect Yogiri

This same argument was already rejected in a previous thread.

Consequently, Yogiri should also benefit from Type 2 acausality, given that not only does the manipulation of fate not affect him, but his future is also inaccessible because Aoi’s precognition didn’t work. Admittedly, his profile already includes resistance to the manipulation of fate, but it would be more consistent to apply Type 2 acausality for greater clarity

Eh, no, her precognition did work, thats why she could see what she saw and say all that stuff about Yogiri being the end of fate.

3) For this section, let’s look together at what the wiki (vsbw) says so the vsbw tells us that NEP 1 is material non-existence; in binary terms, this corresponds to 0 (non-existence), and the vsbw defines NEP 2 as idealistic non-existence, so the subject is neither 0 (non-existence) nor 1 (existence). However, the VSBW states that these kinds of beings may have a non-conventional existence, i.e. prior or opposite
Now that this is clear, let’s look at this [so here we have a situation/ an equation involving Yogiri and the Lord of Spectres, where Yogiri could not see this pseudo-being despite possessing NPI ability; Yogiri therefore had to assume the existence of this being in order to kill it; so here the being has no material existence, hence Type 1 NEP, but the being in question also has a non-conventional existence because it exists as an idea, so it has a form of idealistic existence, given that it is a hypothetical being, and basically a hypothetical being is one that exists as a hypothesis or an idea; this is therefore a form of Type 2 Nep. If we correlate this with the definition of VSBW, the wiki also specifies that this is a form of paraconsistent physiology, so obviously this is Type 2](

This is just a giant non-sequitur. All we know about the Lord of Specters is that it's a spirit. The "hypothetical" part is because Yogiri couldn't detect it (since the spirit wasn't targetting him) so he just assumed there was something there to kill it (hence the usage of the word "hypothetical being"). It's not anything special and completely unrelated to nonexistence. It's just NPI for souls.

4) Yogiri should be exempt from Type 6 immortality because he killed Iselda, who possesses parasitic immortality; indeed, she was able to switch bodies every time she was killed within a specific body, so she has Type 6 immortality, as the wiki clearly states [here is the relevant scan](

Doesnt work for reasons that I already explained here.

5) Upon entering Mitsuki’s dream world, a law was imposed stipulating that anyone killed by Yogiri cannot return to life [here]( ), so Yogiri should benefit from Law Manipulation

This is already on the profile.

6)

Being able to erase all existence doesn't mean you are nonexistent yourself.

7) Now this part will be crucial, because I’m going to explain why UEG’s regeneration is far from being mere ‘low godly’; so, to put it simply, we’re going to define a few terms
‘A being’ is everything that exists
‘Being’ is the principle common to all beings
“Substance” is the basis of existence, and substance is also immutable (according to Aristotle)
“Accident” is everything that happens to the being but does not affect the substance. Let’s take the example of a table made of wood: here, the wood represents the substance and the table is the being
“Secondary substance/essence/ 'quiddity' is what enables the being to be what it is. Let’s take another example with a triangle: a triangle’s essence is having three sides, a square’s essence is having four sides. In other words, essence can be used in the form of predicates; for example, if I say that a triangle has three sides, I am making a predicate of the triangle.
Just to say that all of this contributes to existence; therefore, existence is composed of substance, quiddity, and the physical (material) body. I would remind you that essence is a metaphysical aspect, just like substance, and for us human beings, our essence is our ‘soul’, in short.
Now let’s look at Rick’s ability. Well, first of all, it’s said that Rick has a conceptual advantage in killing gods via his sacred sword; so, to put it simply, his sword isn’t ordinary but a special sword that kills on a conceptual level, and this very same sword was used to kill Vahanato, though not in the same way as with Ueg, because Vahanato already had a wound and Rick stabbed the sword right into that spot and killed him; whereas in Ueg’s case, she also had a wound and had lost her leg, but as you can see, it is literally stated that Ueg cannot be killed in that area like Vahanato, because it is not an essential part of her existence
So this implies that to kill Ueg, you have to destroy a part that is essential to his existence, but what exactly is this so-called essential part? Let’s go
So here Rick uses his exceptional sword, which has a conceptual advantage in targeting Ueg’s divine core, since technically destroying his body serves no purpose; you must therefore target the part where his essence/ quiddity, and to make this clear, it is explicitly stated that an ordinary sword cannot reach UEG’s divine core; so, of course, Rick’s sword was able to make the exception due to this conceptual advantage it possesses. So, to put it plainly, there are two options here: either the divine core represents merely a metaphysical part of Ueg, or it is the very concept of Ueg’s being, due to the nature of the sword, which holds a conceptual advantage over the gods. All things considered, this should correspond to mid-to-high-level godly regeneration, as Ueg returned immediately after his erasure
I can already see some people coming along to say, ‘Yeah, but it doesn’t say that the divine core is his soul’ or ‘it doesn’t say that the divine core is his spirit...’ Calm down. In metaphysics, particularly in Aristotle and St Thomas Aquinas, and in Friedrich Nietzsche too, ‘being = human beings only’ is false; it is an unjustified false claim; it is a fabrication, because ‘being’ in the etymological sense in metaphysics represents everything that is: a tree is a being, a human being is a being, the lion is a being, a telephone is a being... Just to let you know that the soul and the spirit represent merely the metaphysical aspects of the human being, and in a fictional verse there is no need to mention these terms; indeed, metaphysical terms may have other qualifications (other names), but they all share an identical property, and that is fortunate, as the VSBW explicitly mentions this on its metaphysics page
Metaphysical equivalence: in works of fiction, it is difficult to list all metaphysical aspects, such as the Dao, essence, ether... Can represent the metaphysical elements in works of fiction but as I said, every metaphysical aspect has the same function, which is to give meaning to existence.
So, obviously, the essence/concept of UEG lies within its divine core, which was struck by a conceptual sword, because it is said that an ordinary sword (a simple sword) cannot reach this part (the essence) of UEG. I think I’ve said too much, so in short, UEG should achieve mid-godly or even high-godly regeneration (if we interpret that the concept of UEG’s being lies within its divine core and that Rick’s sword, which attacks conceptually, erases this concept) and, of course, consequently, Yogiri should be denied mid-godly or even high-godly regeneration, as UEG was unable to return after being erased by the Endless Void (which allows nothing to exist).

 

[SkyBlade6635]

I doubt that's necessary. Iirc in the other thread one of the first messages was a translator saying the kanji truly means plot/script.

The problem relies if in that context plot refers to that metaphysical aspect. Tbh, I do agree that it is weird to state in the same sentence plot and fate as the same thing if the former is supposed to be a metaphor to refer to the latter. It's like saying water and H2O or something idk.

Ah, okay. If the team has already translated the kanji and it results in "plot," then that’s good. I think you've understood my point of view .
It’s quite simple here: if we assume that "plot" is just a metaphor or hyperbole for "fate," then the sentence becomes tautological and loses all grammatical meaning. In grammar, we call this a pleonasm. It would be like saying, "In the face of such an existence, things like fate and fate are less than a joke." You can see that it’s a tautology.
If the author uses these two terms side-by-side, linking them with the conjunction "and," and especially by using the plural at the beginning of the phrase, it is only logical that they intend to list distinct concepts. It’s exactly as you said; it would be like saying "things like water and H2O" or "things like carbon dioxide and CO2." You can see that it makes no sense.
Furthermore, if I remember correctly, in the Japanese version, the kanji used for "fate" and "plot" are entirely different; one cannot be a synonym for the other, as each has its own specific meaning. When discussing metaphors, hyperboles, or any other figure of speech, the overall sense of the sentence must be taken into account. Since you understand my perspective, I assume you see what I'm trying to explain here

 

[SkyBlade6635]

I disagree with this.

Understood, your opinion is noted. However, for the sake of clarity, I would like you to highlight the specific points you disagree with and provide your arguments so we can discuss them. If I find that your argument is valid and there is nothing to refute it, then I will ask for this CRT (Content Revision Thread) to be closed.
On the other hand, if your arguments do not debunk mine, I will try to convince you to change your mind (if you are being honest). Ultimately, it depends on you; if you are sticking to your opinion for personal reasons or whatever else, then that’s fine. But I believe you should justify your premise of "I disagree." It's easy to just say that, especially when you notice that almost everyone else has provided arguments to justify their views (Optimus, Hecky, Azertyuuh, Sukuna, etc.).
I hope you understand my position, and if there was anything offensive in what I said, please accept my apologies.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

As already said in this thread, this doesnt work since Miss Fox prevented the knife from reaching past Yogiri in the first place. So there is no Acausality type 1 to be had here. The fact that it's also impossible to target Yogiri in the past negates any possibility of proving Type 1 acausality.

The novel states that he transcends the very concept of causality itself. This is further supported by the fact that it is also mentioned that his actions are not linked to causality, meaning there can be no cause-and-effect relationship behind what he does. In the end, don’t forget that the novel explicitly states again that he goes beyond the concept of causality itself.

I think Acausality Type 5 for his true form fits this context perfectly, especially since he cannot be interacted with at all and meets all the requirements for this type of acausality.

This is just a giant non-sequitur. All we know about the Lord of Specters is that it's a spirit. The "hypothetical" part is because Yogiri couldn't detect it (since the spirit wasn't targetting him) so he just assumed there was something there to kill it (hence the usage of the word "hypothetical being"). It's not anything special and completely unrelated to nonexistence. It's just NPI for souls.

You didn’t respond to Yogiri having NEP2, even though he truly deserves that type.

The novel states that his true form is the end of everything, which means his true form is complete nonexistence, since it represents the end of all things. It is similar to something like 5-5 or 0—both expressions lead to the same result, which is nonexistence.

If his true form is the end of everything, then it is absolute nonexistence. However, at the same time, it still exists and can interact—such as attacking, killing, and observing everything. This means it is in a state that completely transcends conventional nonexistence. We know that nonexistence represents 0 and existence represents 1, so his true form is neither 0 nor 1, but a state that fully transcends this binary.

I can also provide another piece of evidence, which is the “Dark World,” described as nonexistence where nothing exists at all. Nothing can exist there, and nothing can be contained within it. Yet Yogiri surpasses even this form of nonexistence itself, as it is stated that he transcends everything and there is nothing beyond him.

From my perspective, granting NEP2 to Yogiri is logical and fair considering all of this evidence.