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Revision 1-C Zen'O

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im just confused on how zeno is 1-C and not low 1-C since hes never destroyed the hypertimeine itself just one timeline which includes the neutral zone and all 12 macrocosms maybe if it was like "low 1-C likely 1-C" it would make more sense but maybe im forgetting something
 
Le_démon_Araii said:
Hello everyone, today I'm going to talk about a topic that I think many of you won't like.

I'm going to explain why Zen'O isn't eligible for 1-C.

Zen'O's feat was accomplished by destroying Trunks's timeline, which is marked as "erased from reality" by the official website, given that Trunks' timeline is a 1-C hypertimeline.

Since it is stated that the entire timeline, the entire universe, has been destroyed, then normally the three spatial dimensions and the temporal dimension of Future Trunks' Universe 7 should have been completely destroyed.
This means that there are no longer any axes of movement and time no longer exists. Time itself should no longer exist in the true sense of the word.

Given that the temporal dimension can be considered an infinite line encompassing an infinite number of points, and each point represents a static moment in the universe, also called a snapshot, the set of all these points forms the totality of spacetime.
Therefore, destroying the dimension directly implies destroying the line and the infinite number of snapshots.

Now, the question is... did Zen'O destroy all of space-time?

The answer is no. The time ring representing Trunks' timeline was destroyed, demonstrating that the timeline no longer exists in the true sense of the word. Therefore, the fact that Goku can return to it, that he can move forward in this universe supposedly "erased from reality," proves that it wasn't entirely erased. Without proof to the contrary, Goku isn't spacefaring, and he could also breathe even though there was no oxygen.

Furthermore, Whis explains that he can bring Trunks and Mai back to "their" world before its "destruction," implying that the time dimension wasn't completely erased and that snapshots of the past remain, since Whis can bring them back to a time before their world's destruction.

This is further reinforced by Bulma's statement that if they return to "their" world before its "destruction by King Zen'O," they will have to face Zamasu again.
Therefore, "their" world is indeed the timeline that is supposed to have been completely destroyed.

In the FAQ, there's the question, "When is the destruction or creation of a universe or timeline ranked as Low 2-C (Universe level+)?"

The answer was that it required the creation/destruction of all three-dimensional space at every instant in time. The entire timeline had to be destroyed, and the act of creation/destruction had to be direct.

An example was given: destroying the universe at the beginning of time, causing everything else to disappear due to the paradox of causality. The present cannot exist without the past, and without the present, there is no future. This destruction, however, doesn't meet the requirements and can only be classified as 3-A.

In Zen'O's case, it's proven that the past still exists, as demonstrated by Whis and Bulma's statements, implying that not all three-dimensional space was destroyed at every instant in time. At best, he destroyed the present and the future (the present because, from Future Trunks's perspective, it's "his present"), but the past remained unaffected. This also debunks Zamasu's 1-C, which is supposed to be one with the entire universe, including the time dimension.

Conclusion: Zen'O does not meet the requirements for timeline destruction and should therefore be downgraded to 3-A, or High 3-A maximum.
Click to expand...
I just want to point out that currently the “neutral space” has low 1-c so, it would downgrade him to low 1-c not 3-A or even 2-c.
 
I do not agree with this thread.

Zeno is the strongest in all of Dragon Ball and has extremely strong narrative portrayal, as it is consistently stated that there is nothing he cannot erase and nothing above him. This is repeatedly confirmed by very high-tier characters such as the Grand Priest, Whis, the Gods, and even the Kais, as well as by the narrative itself.

Zeno has strong portrayal regarding his power, as he is capable of erasing anything, and there is nothing above him or anything he cannot erase. This is confirmed through many statements and cannot be ignored. Moreover, this cannot be dismissed because he has strong narrative support for this.

The fact that he has not erased something does not mean he cannot or should not be given a high tier; this is a mistake. We evaluate feats, but at the same time we do not ignore what a character is stated to be capable of. Therefore, Zeno will always remain at Tier 1-C because he has strong narrative portrayal and statements that cannot be ignored unless there is a contradiction or he is shown to be unable to do something.

Secondly, Zeno is also stronger and higher than Arale, who is also classified as 1-C. So naturally, as we know, Zeno is the “king of everything” and there is nothing above him at all, meaning he is above Arale herself and stronger than her. Therefore, he will remain at 1-C, and this is the second reason.

I do not agree with this thread and I reject any downgrade for Zeno. Zeno will always scale higher as the cosmology scales higher.
 
Azertyhuuh said:
I do not agree with this thread.

Zeno is the strongest in all of Dragon Ball and has extremely strong narrative portrayal, as it is consistently stated that there is nothing he cannot erase and nothing above him. This is repeatedly confirmed by very high-tier characters such as the Grand Priest, Whis, the Gods, and even the Kais, as well as by the narrative itself.

Zeno has strong portrayal regarding his power, as he is capable of erasing anything, and there is nothing above him or anything he cannot erase. This is confirmed through many statements and cannot be ignored. Moreover, this cannot be dismissed because he has strong narrative support for this.

The fact that he has not erased something does not mean he cannot or should not be given a high tier; this is a mistake. We evaluate feats, but at the same time we do not ignore what a character is stated to be capable of. Therefore, Zeno will always remain at Tier 1-C because he has strong narrative portrayal and statements that cannot be ignored unless there is a contradiction or he is shown to be unable to do something.

Secondly, Zeno is also stronger and higher than Arale, who is also classified as 1-C. So naturally, as we know, Zeno is the “king of everything” and there is nothing above him at all, meaning he is above Arale herself and stronger than her. Therefore, he will remain at 1-C, and this is the second reason.

I do not agree with this thread and I reject any downgrade for Zeno. Zeno will always scale higher as the cosmology scales higher.
Click to expand...
the goat has spoken
 
So why is Zen'o 1-C exactly?

Unless if he's destroying the overarching hypertimeline, that contains NZ hypertime as well he wouldn't scale to 1-C
Which has never happened
 
Knowing that, as you said, the hypertimeline is just the higher dimension of NZ, they use this higher dimension to travel between parallel worlds, so without this dimension, travel is no longer possible, therefore I propose a grade of 2-C and likely a low 1-C.
 
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Agree with the OP, disagree with Zen'o scaling to Tier 3 FRA. However I doubt this will pass anyway because Dragon Ball can do no wrong on VSBW, of course.
 
I repeat my statement for the second time.

Just because you have not done something does not mean you are incapable of doing it.

Zeno has very strong narrative portrayal in Dragon Ball. There are dozens of statements consistently confirming that he is the strongest and that there is nothing above him or anything he cannot erase. Therefore, the 1-C rating is still valid.

Secondly, this is directed to the creator of this thread: what about Arale??? Arale is also classified as Tier 1-C, and Zeno is stronger than her and stronger than any other character in Dragon Ball. So, as of now, Zeno’s tier will not change.

There are many characters classified in higher tiers without concrete feats, but rather based on statements and narrative portrayal—as long as there is nothing contradicting that, of course. The same applies to Zeno here.

I reject the downgrade for the reasons I mentioned, and I ask the staff not to rush and to approve this thread.
 
Dragon Ball and not being able to do wrong all in the same sentence? Pack it up. It’s also clear this thread is going nowhere at this point since it’s been unanimously rejected. I think this should be closed and any contentions should be discussed elsewhere.
 
I clearly disagree with that take. The time machine isn’t traveling back through space-time; it’s moving into an atemporal void where Zeno erased the entire timeline, including space-time itself. Furthermore, the same time machine is capable of traversing the void that contains all timelines.



So, it’s safe to say that she could easily go to a place where space-time no longer exists

Furthermore, Trunks does not go to the same timeline. It is confirmed in the manga itself that when Trunks goes, there will be other versions of him. Additionally, the manga confirms that it is an entirely new timeline.





Even characters like Whis, who is infinitely inferior to Zeno, can affect the time axis through his manipulation of time ( So I don't understand how Zeno can't affect the timeline or even erase it, when characters weaker than him are able to affect the time axis )



Furthermore, if you erase a timeline, you are erasing the very time axis itself. It is mentioned in the anime that each timeline has its own flow of time; in other words, if you erase a timeline, you are erasing its entire history, the space-time, and the time axis itself.



And no, that wouldn’t make Zeno 3-A.
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
I clearly disagree with that take. The time machine isn’t traveling back through space-time; it’s moving into an atemporal void where Zeno erased the entire timeline, including space-time itself. Furthermore, the same time machine is capable of traversing the void that contains all timelines.



So, it’s safe to say that she could easily go to a place where space-time no longer exists

Furthermore, Trunks does not go to the same timeline. It is confirmed in the manga itself that when Trunks goes, there will be other versions of him. Additionally, the manga confirms that it is an entirely new timeline.





Even characters like Whis, who is infinitely inferior to Zeno, can affect the time axis through his manipulation of time ( So I don't understand how Zeno can't affect the timeline or even erase it, when characters weaker than him are able to affect the time axis )



Furthermore, if you erase a timeline, you are erasing the very time axis itself. It is mentioned in the anime that each timeline has its own flow of time; in other words, if you erase a timeline, you are erasing its entire history, the space-time, and the time axis itself.



And no, that wouldn’t make Zeno 3-A.
Click to expand...

About three last images in second imgur link. I thought Black was safe in the future due to time ring, not due to being in different world?
 
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