Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[Udlmaster]

You can’t say something is context dependent and not explain why the context depicts something different.

That's because Japanese uses the same characters (Kasō: 仮想) for Virtual, Imaginary & simulated.

My entire post was explaining why it was context dependant.

 

[BiggestOpp]

My entire post was explaining why it was context dependant.

Now what context would dictate the meaning of the kanji in Gojo’s situation?

 

[Udlmaster]

Now what context would dictate the meaning of the kanji in Gojo’s situation?

Oh, I dunno... maybe the explanation of how his technique works?????

順転と反転

それぞれの無限を衝突させることで生成される

仮想の質量を押し出す

Gojo's ability doesn't invoke density or involve collapsing something into a black hole, it also doesn't involve itself with standard mass.

It's using Imaginary Mass by colliding his two techniques (infinities) together.

So there's a clear link between the language used and how the technique operates which tells us which definition it is.

This is like Sekai, where it means the world, the planet, the universe or just a area depending on context.

...

Is this rage bait?

Am I getting ragebaited right now?

 

[BiggestOpp]

Oh, I dunno... maybe the explanation of how his technique works?????



Gojo's ability doesn't invoke density or involve collapsing something into a black hole, it also doesn't involve itself with standard mass.

It's using Imaginary Mass by colliding his two techniques (infinities) together.

So there's a clear link between the language used and how the technique operates which tells us which definition it is.

This is like Sekai, where it means the world, the planet, the universe or just a area depending on context.

...

Is this rage bait?

Am I getting ragebaited right now?

You’re literally just saying words my guy.
Normally with Japanese terms with multiple meanings, there’s nouns or verbs to help allude to what it’s referring to in that moment.
Or, the author may use the term in reference to something direct which gives it a way of use in a series.

You’re giving the term meaning without any supplementary context leading to it. WHY in Gojo’s case would Gege use “仮想の質量” to describe imaginary mass when there’s literally a term for that exact word “虚数の質量” which is used everywhere when referencing the scientific concept of imaginary mass???
It’s because they’re not saying what you think they are. 仮想の質量 Is given a direct meaning in the series, which is virtual mass, it’s described in series how it would be used in the real world.
Gojo’s hollow purple is no different than Yuki’s CT.

 

[Udlmaster]

You’re giving the term meaning without any supplementary context leading to it.

I gave you context. How many more times do I have to give it to you before you actually comprehend it beyond:

just saying words

You’re giving the term meaning without any supplementary context leading to it. WHY in Gojo’s case would Gege use “仮想の質量” to describe imaginary mass when there’s literally a term for that exact word “虚数の質量” which is used everywhere when referencing the scientific concept of imaginary mass???

Because 虚 and 仮想 both can mean Imaginary, However Kyo (虚) denotes it more clearly.

Secondly, the Japanese Name for the technique is "虚式" IS USING THAT CHARACTER. It's literally signalling to the reader "Hey this is Imaginary Mass" using that character.

I do not have to explain why Gege did something because it's unprovable, what we would look at is the context around the ability, which I provided several times, even if you refuse to read it:

That's because Japanese uses the same characters (Kasō: 仮想) for Virtual, Imaginary & simulated.

And given the story describes it different, treats it different, applies it different and never makes mention that they're a similar technique (to my knowledge), I think it's fair to say that they're not the same as the other guy is implying.

I also doubly made sure that it was using that version by going and finding the raw scan where she says:

"自らに仮想の質量を付与する"

And you'll notice Kasō is used here. As such, it's a context-dependent word.

Gojo's ability doesn't invoke density or involve collapsing something into a black hole, it also doesn't involve itself with standard mass.

It's using Imaginary Mass by colliding his two techniques (infinities) together.

So there's a clear link between the language used and how the technique operates which tells us which definition it is.

This is like Sekai, where it means the world, the planet, the universe or just a area depending on context.

It’s because they’re not saying what you think they are. 仮想の質量 Is given a direct meaning in the series, which is virtual mass, it’s described in series how it would be used in the real world.
Gojo’s hollow purple is no different than Yuki’s CT.

You already said that and I already rebuffed it.

 

[BiggestOpp]

I gave you context. How many more times do I have to give it to you before you actually comprehend it beyond:

You literally gave no context

Because 虚 and 仮想 both can mean Imaginary, However Kyo (虚) denotes it more clearly.

No no no, there’s literally a scientific term of imaginary mass in Japanese. This isn’t a matter of interpretation or context, Gege did not use 虚数質量 because that’s not what he was trying to say.
虚数質量 is the scientific name for imaginary mass. 仮想質量 cannot mean imaginary energy. The kanji’s having numerous meanings does not mean they are all open to interpretation. If there’s a specific term for imaginary mass then this (仮想質量) cannot be a stand in for it, because even 仮想質量 has a very specific use case because it too is a real scientific term.
You’re trolling.

Secondly, the Japanese Name for the technique is "虚式" IS USING THAT CHARACTER. It's literally signalling to the reader "Hey this is Imaginary Mass" using that character.

You’re trolling, so Gege used the character meant to say imaginary for the technique name, and instead of using the scientific term referring to imaginary mass, used another term that commonly refers to virtual mass. . Even though he just used the kanji.
You’re ******* trolling.

I do not have to explain why Gege did something because it's unprovable, what we would look at is the context around the ability, which I provided several times, even if you refuse to read it:

You provided NO context. The context provided is literally “hollow purple doesn’t turn into a black hole soooo” which is by argument against it scaling above Yuki. Tf type of context is this?
“Hollow purple is made via different means”
No shit, but I’m arguing that the end result is the same as Star rage.
You’ve provided no context, please quote the context you’ve provided

You already said that and I already rebuffed it.

You ain’t refute shit

 

[JnSteHar002]

ok but serious question why cant she just punch at like, 6A or 5C if her limit is higher

Real question, and she maybe can? Tegen could contain the Black Hole and she says she's not a Fighter, and that isn't even considered to be the highest output in the series.

I'm under the assumption she definitely could but, it's either to risky and/or she's never had a reason to do so; fighting Kenjaku was an exception given that Tengen could keep the black hole from destroying the planet and Kenny has proven themselves to be a world-wide threat

 

[Udlmaster]

You literally gave no context

I'm not going to be going back and forth with you. I gave you context.

虚数質量 is the scientific name for imaginary mass. 仮想質量 cannot mean imaginary energy. The kanji’s having numerous meanings does not mean they are all open to interpretation. If there’s a specific term for imaginary mass then this (仮想質量) cannot be a stand in for it, because even 仮想質量 has a very specific use case because it too is a real scientific term.

Then show Hollow Purple acting like a Black Hole then or even having some sort of actual Mass. We can do it for Star Rage and the Black Hole application, if they're soooo similar, you can do it for Hollow: Purple, right?

Go on, we'll wait.

You’re trolling, so Gege used the character meant to say imaginary for the technique name, and instead of using the scientific term referring to imaginary mass, used another term that commonly refers to virtual mass.

Because that's also how you can denote something as being empty or... Hollow. As in Hollow Technique or "Imaginary Technique"

You provided NO context.

Yawnnnnn

The context provided is

Woops, you dropped the ball immediately.

“hollow purple doesn’t turn into a black hole soooo” which is by argument against it scaling above Yuki. Tf type of context is this?

It doesn't behave like how you're demanding it aught to.

How would you even explain how two immaterial forces (attraction and repulson) which appear in the same way Purple does when added together make... mass?

You’ve provided no context

The context provided is literally

You ain’t refute shit

The context provided is literally

 

[Saqphire]

It doesn't mean Yuki. She wasn't in the Culling Games... but Kenjaku was. And he overpowered Yuki's black hole with his Anti-Gravity technique.

Kenjaku wasn't. Geto, the body he inhabits, was. Not to mention, cuz of how the games work, Kenjaku had to kill Ryu eventually so he could become a player. So really all it would do is just upscale Ryu above JJK0 Yuta (who has his own planetary statement but whateverrrr)

 

[Udlmaster]

Kenjaku wasn't. Geto, the body he inhabits, was. Not to mention, cuz of how the games work, Kenjaku had to kill Ryu eventually so he could become a player. So really all it would do is just upscale Ryu above JJK0 Yuta (who has his own planetary statement but whateverrrr)

True, but it would have to count Geto and Kenjaku together. Geto is already dead and as you showed, Kenjaku uses "Sugeru Geto" as a part of his "game ends when everyone but me and my friends die".

Otherwise, Kenjaku would be trapped in the Culling Games with just the brain part and Geto's body would just be ejected somewhere when they all tried to leave...

Which is a very funny picture to imagine.

 

[BiggestOpp]

I'm not going to be going back and forth with you. I gave you context.

You didn’t give context you goober

Then show Hollow Purple acting like a Black Hole then or even having some sort of actual Mass. We can do it for Star Rage and the Black Hole application, if they're soooo similar, you can do it for Hollow: Purple, right?

I NEVER SAID IT BEHAVED LIKE A BLACK HOLE DUMBASS. My entire point is Gojo’s hollow purple must be weaker than Yuki’s suicide attack bc they operate on the same principle yet only one of them makes a black hole. I’ve said that from the start. READ. READ. REAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD.
Gojo’s HP is shown on numerous occasions to have mass/kinetic energy. It literally shattered a city when Gojo used it against Sukuna, and unlimited hollowpurple is shown blowing shit apart, fragmenting pieces of buildings and sent rubble flying. That’s literally mass. You’re not serious.

Because that's also how you can denote something as being empty or... Hollow. As in Hollow Technique or "Imaginary Technique"

Ok??????

It doesn't behave like how you're demanding it aught to.

It literally does, Gojo creates virtual mass and lunches it forward. That’s what’s told to us.

How would you even explain how two immaterial forces (attraction and repulson) which appear in the same way Purple does when added together make... mass?

What are you even saying.

 

[Saqphire]

True, but it would have to count Geto and Kenjaku together. Geto is already dead and as you showed, Kenjaku uses "Sugeru Geto" as a part of his "game ends when everyone but me and my friends die".

Otherwise, Kenjaku would be trapped in the Culling Games with just the brain part and Geto's body would just be ejected somewhere when they all tried to leave...

I mean, that's not really a problem for Kenjaku anyway, he can just inhabit any body he desires after the games are over (provided they don't get merged with Tengen). And Kenjaku's using Geto's name but also Megumi and Shori's names instead of Sukuna's and Uraume's here would mean the vessel itself is in the games, not the incarnation itself.

(Possible Kashimo upscale btw)

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

This is how fast Arkenis and BiggestOpp think Naoya is

 

[Saqphire]

This is how fast Arkenis and BiggestOpp think Naoya is

Joakin after making the relativistic naoya calc

 

[Udlmaster]

I NEVER SAID IT BEHAVED LIKE A BLACK HOLE DUMBASS. My entire point is Gojo’s hollow purple must be weaker than Yuki’s suicide attack bc they operate on the same principle yet only one of them makes a black hole. I’ve said that from the start. READ. READ. REAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD.

You're crashing out saying Read but you missed the little "or" I added in there

Maybe you should read, mmm?

Then show Hollow Purple acting like a Black Hole then or even having some sort of actual Mass.

Gojo’s HP is shown on numerous occasions to have mass/kinetic energy. It literally shattered a city when Gojo used it against Sukuna, and unlimited hollowpurple is shown blowing shit apart, fragmenting pieces of buildings and sent rubble flying. That’s literally mass. You’re not serious.

Kinetic energy =/= Mass

Kamehameha is pure ki, doesn't mean it has mass, it just means it has energy, which you can convert into Mass, but it doesn't mean it has any resting mass like you're trying to argue.

Also like.. thing destroying other things is not the requirement for mass? That's just goofy.

If that's the metric, literally everything in JJK has mass and your entire argument that Gojo's purple is Yuki's Star Fury and Black Hole is completely mute because so would everything lol

So which is it? Either Purple is energy and not mass or everything has mass and your argument has no meaning.

Ok??????

So it's relevant context, yawn.

What are you even saying.

I'll dumb it down:

Why does his Blue and Red techniques which are just attraction and repulson respectively appear in the same way as Purple if it's Purple that has the mass but these don't?

Likewise, how would two immaterial forces create virtual mass?

Now the explanation that it's creating imaginary mass makes sense, but would you like to explain to the class how Virtual mass works better than Imaginary Mass? Since how would two contradictory forces acting together work with virtual mass which is how an object moves through a fluid behaves as if it has more mass (like an air bubble)

It should also be noted that the Official VIZ translation into English is:

Motion and Reversal. It is born by colliding both infinities. An Imaginary Mass rushes forth...

Hollow Technique!

PURPLE!

So the official translation is siding with me on it being Imaginary Mass, not Virtual Mass.

 

[Udlmaster]

I mean, that's not really a problem for Kenjaku anyway, he can just inhabit any body he desires after the games are over (provided they don't get merged with Tengen). And Kenjaku's using Geto's name but also Megumi and Shori's names instead of Sukuna's and Uraume's here would mean the vessel itself is in the games, not the incarnation itself.

(Possible Kashimo upscale btw)

He could, but we know that it's the body + the person inhabiting is counted, since a Full Incarnation changes the Player to the fully incarnated Sorcerer like Ryu and Uro while Hana was still classified as Hannah.

So it is always updating and taking into account both parties until one party is no longer in existence.

So he should be counted.

 

[BiggestOpp]

This is how fast Arkenis and BiggestOpp think Naoya is

It’s not that we think he’s the flash, it’s more so the rest of the verse are like, slightly slower than Usain Bolt

 

[Robo432343]

biggestopp needs to be banned from jjk general discussion

 

[Udlmaster]

I think I'm just going to ignore all of his responses from now on...

I believe I've seen enough lmao

 

[BiggestOpp]

biggestopp needs to be banned from jjk general discussion

Idk why yall act like im rage baiting, JJK was almost successfully capped at superhuman speed a couple months ago. The arguments for it were actually legit.

 

[Saqphire]

He could, but we know that it's the body + the person inhabiting is counted, since a Full Incarnation changes the Player to the fully incarnated Sorcerer like Ryu and Uro while Hana was still classified as Hannah.

So it is always updating and taking into account both parties until one party is no longer in existence.

So he should be counted.

That's not necessarily true because Kashimo's name isn't actually Kashimo, that's the vessel's name. Although most vessels they incarnate into are featless on their own, where their output would vastly differ from the sorcerer's as proven by Tsumiki being a normal human vs. Yorozu having comparability to 16F Sukuna out of all people.

So you probably got a point, but then again Kenjaku isn't like the others so we can't really determine how the games rate someone like him, especially when the "vessel" he is within is a powerful sorcerer on it's own, making it ambiguous.

 

[Saqphire]

Idk why yall act like im rage baiting, JJK was almost successfully capped at superhuman speed a couple months ago. The arguments for it were actually legit.

They were dogshit

 

[BiggestOpp]

They were dogshit

All the arguments came right from the series itself.

 

[Sus]

jjk is capped at immobile

 

[Saqphire]

All the arguments came right from the series itself.

Yall said Projection Sorcery was 24 m/s but they never said metres, they said movements, said movements which don't have to be one metre at all.

In fact, I remember saying that myself

Why would the full speed within 24 frames be Mach 1 and not, let's say, higher like Mach 2 or even higher? Because we have seen for example Naoya speed-blitz people like Superhuman Itadori in the manga/anime for example without even stacking his speed (and if we really wanna go there, Itadori is a >Mach 1 timer via his PB feats). This is especially true when you try to use narrative to assert the cap as intentional but then also say Gege made a blunder by saying Itadori alr has a stated speed faster, so the cap cannot be this low if anything if we wanna appeal to blind authority.

That said, remove the cap anyway lmao, it is egregious compared to actual feats shown.

 

[Zabazab]

Kenjaku wasn't. Geto, the body he inhabits, was.

This is faulty logic. None of the incarnated sorcerers use their "real" names, they use the names of their vessels in the game system. That doesn't mean that none of the incarnations are players. Ryu, Uro, Kashimo, Reggie, Sukuna, Uraume, they are all players in the Culling Game, and statements that apply to "Culling Game Players" apply to them. Same goes for Kenjaku who uses the name Geto Suguru.

 

[ShroobWasTaken]

This is faulty logic. None of the incarnated sorcerers use their "real" names, they use the names of their vessels in the game system. That doesn't mean that none of the incarnations are players. Ryu, Uro, Kashimo, Reggie, Sukuna, Uraume, they are all players in the Culling Game, and statements that apply to "Culling Game Players" apply to them. Same goes for Kenjaku who uses the name Geto Suguru.

Good point. Trying to exclude Kenny and so on from Ryu's output statement due to Kenny being registered under Geto's name doesn't do much cause... so is Ryu?? Ryu is still registered under the name of his vessel. It wouldn't even make sense for Gege to note Ryu's output as being the highest of every player when he's apparently intending to compare Ryu's output to the vessels who were normal people before the Culling Games started.

Like, what is the narrative relevance of Gege trying to tell us "Ryu has the highest output amongst normal people!", that genuinely sounds so stupid. If we can just dismiss Ryu's statement like this then his output statement isn't impressive at all, I agree with Zab, the logic is faulty.

 

[Altay6789]

Hello, I have finished this: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Altay6789/Ranta_Zenin and now I just want to have feedback from you guys.

Explanation: I gave Ranta an attack potency and durability of "At least City Block level" because of it being stated in chapter 150 that The Hei consists of sorcerers rated Semi-Grade 1 or higher by Jujutsu High. This means that Ranta is at least comparable to other Semi-Grade 1 sorcerers like Inumaki or Noritoshi. I specifcally put "at least" because:
1: He held off an awakened Maki who has an attack potency of "At least Large town level", albeit with his eyes bleeding. This is also why his attack potency is likely higher with his technique.
2. In Jinichi's page it's stated that he is "Likely comparable to other members of The Hei, such Ogi, Ranta himself and Chojuro." Meaning that Ranta could "City Block level+", but his grade is never stated, meaning that he is likely not in the grade 1/City Block level+ league (Like Todo, Nanami or Mei Mei) so that puts it into uncertainty.

I also have an question when an page for an character is finished how does it become an link in https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Jujutsu_Kaisen at the "characters" tab?

Could you guys please take into account that I will be busy for my finals? (So I won't really have time to change the page)

I would like to thank you all for your considerations, suggestions and answers.

 

[Electronic74947]

Are we still arguing about scaling ryu to antigravity?


Just put it in the pile with things gege didnt consider when writing

 

[Qurbonboev]

In fact, I remember saying that myself

Yuji PB feats are prime example of "evading at the last moment" cliche. That moment doesn't work narratively at all if Yuji is comparable to PB speedwise.

I forgot that Kenjaku was culling game player. Ryu should upscale from Kenjaku anti gravity output. Sadly it def would be outlier to other HH tiers feats, so this upscale won't happen

 

[Udlmaster]

Good point. Trying to exclude Kenny and so on from Ryu's output statement due to Kenny being registered under Geto's name doesn't do much cause... so is Ryu?? Ryu is still registered under the name of his vessel. It wouldn't even make sense for Gege to note Ryu's output as being the highest of every player when he's apparently intending to compare Ryu's output to the vessels who were normal people before the Culling Games started.

Like, what is the narrative relevance of Gege trying to tell us "Ryu has the highest output amongst normal people!", that genuinely sounds so stupid. If we can just dismiss Ryu's statement like this then his output statement isn't impressive at all, I agree with Zab, the logic is faulty.

Yeah dude, they're talking about Geto's dead body, totally makes sense.

Ryu has the highest output amongst all the players because they're all piloting dead bodies (almost dead bodies, I know they're not literally dead like Geto's is but you get the joke) anything > 0

Are we still arguing about scaling ryu to antigravity?


Just put it in the pile with things gege didnt consider when writing

Well, he did actually.

Kenjaku says he had to modify the output of the Anti-Gravity technique. Both are a measurement of Output and that means that Ryu's output there is greater than Kenjaku's output against the Black Hole

Even if you say it's not High 5-A, from what I remember of the G-forces active on his body, it's like 7-A or something to that effect.

 

[Electronic74947]

Well, he did actually.

Kenjaku says he had to modify the output of the Anti-Gravity technique. Both are a measurement of Output and that means that Ryu's output there is greater than Kenjaku's output against the Black Hole

Even if you say it's not High 5-A, from what I remember of the G-forces active on his body, it's like 7-A or something to that effect.

What i was referring to was that kenjaku has planetary strength

 

[Saqphire]

Yuji PB feats are prime example of "evading at the last moment" cliche. That moment doesn't work narratively at all if Yuji is comparable to PB speedwise.

The point is that projection sorcery can surpass 24 m/s by surpassing piercing blood in speed via Yuji being able to percieve and react to it when he couldn't percieve nor react to Naoya moving towards him from a similar distance. Thus their assumption is flawed

 

[Electronic74947]

The point is that projection sorcery can surpass 24 m/s by surpassing piercing blood in speed via Yuji being able to percieve and react to it when he couldn't percieve nor react to Naoya moving towards him from a similar distance. Thus their assumption is flawed

Yeah that's another thing. Choso can visibly see piercing blood but couldnt see naoya

Oh and maki grabbing a bullet. Even gege said it was a bullet.

Gege doesnt think these things through sometimes

 

[Udlmaster]

What i was referring to was that kenjaku has planetary strength

Right but my point was that even if someone doesn't consider the fact Kenjaku overpowered the Black Hole which btw, I checked the original Japanese too and Kenjaku says:

本来なら世界中を巻き込む自爆を天元の結界と本人の意志でここまで抑え込んだ

Which is (more or less, again, using translators so results may vary:

"A self-destruction that would normally engulf the entire world... was contained to this extent by Tengen's barrier and her own will."

The key phrase here is "抑え込んだ" which means contained, meaning Tengen (once Yuki was dead and couldn't contain it anymore herself) contained that entire Black Hole's effect, including the gravitational waves it would produce (and the MASSIVE amounts of radiation)

 

[Sus]

Yuji PB feats are prime example of "evading at the last moment" cliche. That moment doesn't work narratively at all if Yuji is comparable to PB speedwise.

I forgot that Kenjaku was culling game player. Ryu should upscale from Kenjaku anti gravity output. Sadly it def would be outlier to other HH tiers feats, so this upscale won't happen

guys.... be fr

everyone assumed kenjaku had 1 technique prior to his fight with yuki and choso

 

[Sus]

saw someone genuinely putting maki and toji as top 3 and 4 in the verse

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

saw someone genuinely putting maki and toji as top 3 and 4 in the verse

Saw a video where the person said maki didn't get blitzed by sukuna despite literally showing Sukuna blitzing Maki
The fandom is infected with glaze for the Heavenly Restrictions

 

[Nonynho]

[7-1-0] G-man Who Seem Like Nerd At First vs Toxic Duo - Fushiguro Tōji vs Jōgo & Mahito

Jōgo and Mahito are beside one another when they sense Dagon got killed and in this timeline, Mahito decided to accompany Jōgo for fun, wanting a good battle after f***ing up a whole train worth of souls and bodies and the fire cyclop wanted revenge for his brother. Master Hand and Crazy Hand...

vsbattles.com

As @Arkenis said this would be valid, there we go

i'll be answering tomorrow if y'all care to give points here

 

[Sus]

Saw a video where the person said maki didn't get blitzed by sukuna despite literally showing Sukuna blitzing Maki
The fandom is infected with glaze for the Heavenly Restrictions

heavily weakened 16F sukuna handled maki with one hand lets be fr

and dont forget toji being "maybe" faster than 3F