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All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

Phsccarvalho said:
It's over
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Where was that?
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
Where was that?
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vsbattles.com

Universal Energy System Standards

Good afternoon everybody. I'm splitting my evening in half to talk about how bad our UES page is and why it needs to be elaborated on, or at least have standards put in place for them, because there's a problem with our wiki's overindulgence in "making people scale to attacks they shouldn't...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Demon_Lord18 said:
vsbattles.com

Universal Energy System Standards

Good afternoon everybody. I'm splitting my evening in half to talk about how bad our UES page is and why it needs to be elaborated on, or at least have standards put in place for them, because there's a problem with our wiki's overindulgence in "making people scale to attacks they shouldn't...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
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The guys who really messed up the characters' speed—it ended up affecting MFTL and several other characters; Omega literally touched Zeno right in the middle of the crt for the staff 😃
 
vsbattles.com

Universal Energy System Standards

Good afternoon everybody. I'm splitting my evening in half to talk about how bad our UES page is and why it needs to be elaborated on, or at least have standards put in place for them, because there's a problem with our wiki's overindulgence in "making people scale to attacks they shouldn't...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

"Implement that in order to qualify for a UES, the fighter in question must make it known that they don't just put the same type of energy, but the same amount of energy."

Ki Control?
 
vsbattles.com

Universal Energy System Standards

I hope that this thread doesn't ultimately get derailed because of a strawman (and with people not thinking through their responses to that strawman). I was replying to the OP. "Implement that in order to qualify for a UES, the fighter in question must make it known that they don't just put...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
Ki (Dragon Ball): Ki is currently accepted as a UES which means that all attacks and techniques should scale to each other by the definition of a Universal Energy System, yet there are many contradictions with that. For example, Cell and Goku were exchanging punches and kicks with no issue yet when Cell was hit by Goku's kamehameha the upper half of his body was destroyed. (Piccolo Saying that Goku will unleash a "full power" Kamehameha proves that not all attacks have the same power and AP). Another example is when UI Sign Goku and Pre-Transformation Moro were exchanging physical attacks normally yet Super Saiyan Blue Goku, which is a weaker form than UI Sign managed to destroy the arm of a much stronger Moro after he transformed with his Kamehameha (The same Moro punched a hole through the same Goku casually).

Funnily enough despite Ki being accepted as a UES we also already accept in the profiles that the Kamehameha is stronger than physical attacks, same for the Galick Gun, Final Flash and the Big Bang Attack. And it's also the case for the Makankōsappō and Tri-Beam which are constantly portrayed as vastly superior to physicals.

But at this point with all of these attacks that don't scale to physicals and to other attacks can you really say that this is a Universal Energy System and that all attacks scale to each other and to physicals. (Obviously scaling to these attacks via damaging someone who tanked them is still possible but that's just basic powerscaling and has nothing to do with UES).
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UES is so trash, can we delete the page?
 
don't we have a reason for concentrated energy causing attacks like the kamehameha to be more powerful?
 
Faridw said:
don't we have a reason for concentrated energy causing attacks like the kamehameha to be more powerful?
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"This attack is stronger because more energy is released at once" not "This attack is stronger because it costs more energy"

Basically The sun outputs energy per second, but a solar flare is stronger because it’s built up

Same goes for Charged Ki attacks
 
Faridw said:
don't we have a reason for concentrated energy causing attacks like the kamehameha to be more powerful?
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Yes.
"It's Master Kame's legendary move... concentrating all his dormant energy... into a single focused blast!!"
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"He's focused all of his Chi into his hands..."
"What destruction... What power... One can't even begin to compare it to the Kamehameha...!"
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"It can't be!!! His power... up to 924!!! And increasing...? Soemhow... he can focus all his energy into a single point...!!!"
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"Power... 1,300...!!!! And all focused in his fingertips...?!!!"
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"Gathering Ki in the hands and unleashing it upon the enemy causes tremendous damage."
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"By gathering Ki, the technique becomes more powerful. However, gathering Ki may take time."
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"Increase the power of your techniques by concentrating the Ki present all throughout your body, from the top of your head to the tips of your toes, into your hand."
"Amplify the Ki power in your hands!"
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"When a bundle of Ki becomes thinner, the piercing and cutting power increases!!!"
"A thin bundle of Ki possesses the penetrative [force] of a drill, whereas a thick bundle of Ki possesses the destructive power of a cannon!!!"
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"This technique condenses the energy within the body and releases it all at once, giving it tremendous power."
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"This Ki-based technique [Kamehameha] amplifies the body's energy before releasing it."
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"Those with innate combat ability, like Goku and the others, can concentrate and heighten their Ki, increasing their own strength by several times over [...]"
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To compare, compressing water (or air) down to a smaller area (e.g., one's hand, eyes, fingertip, etc.) increases its density, causing the molecules to move more rapidly and, thus, increasing kinetic energy. Special techniques operate under similar principles, essentially pressurize one's Ki, like a water jet.
 
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Nullflowerblush said:
To compare, compressing water (or air) down to a smaller area (e.g., one's hand, eyes, fingertip, etc.) increases its density, causing the molecules to move more rapidly and, thus, increasing kinetic energy. Special techniques operate under similar principles, essentially pressurize one's Ki, like a water jet.
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But isn't this a rarity in the Dragon Ball universe, as It was establish since the beginning of Saiyan Saga? With Raditz and most in the Frieza Force be shocked that Earth habitants can amplify their attacks beyond their regular Power Levels? Like things like the Kamehameha and Makakosappo are meant to work like that, but this shouldn't be the case for Saiyan Saga Vegeta's Garlic Gun or Pre Super Frieza's Supernova.

Besides who say this its exclusive to just energy attacks? What stop characters to apply the same principle into defense techniques such as Aura & Ki Barrier or to Punches & Kicks? The only difference its that they can't maintain that levels of durability/striking strength everytime as they end up using far too Stamina, like how they can't keep their top speeds while travelling for vast distances as it cost too much energy.
 
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Stefano4444 said:
Besides what stop characters to apply the same principle into defense or with their physical bodies? The only difference its that they can't constant maintain that levels of durability/striking strength as it requid too much stamina
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Which now that i think about It, didn't King Piccolo and Kid Goku done something similar in their final clash? With Kid Goku focusing all remaning ki into his fist while Piccolo does the same into his arms to block It.
 
Stefano4444 said:
With Raditz and most in the Frieza Force be shocked that Earth habitants can amplify their attacks beyond their regular Power Levels?
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Raditz is a low-level mid-class Saiyan, and the Frieza Force soldiers are equipped with Blasters because they cannot control Ki.
Stefano4444 said:
this shouldn't be the case for Saiyan Saga Vegeta's Garlic Gun or Pre Super Frieza's Supernova.
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Except Frieza and Vegeta are naturally gifted prodigies, with the former being a mutant, and are elite-level among their peers. In fact, Vegeta even explicitly remarks that Goku's Kamehameha is similar to his Galick Gun, to the point where most of all supplementary material acknowledge the two as simply versions of one another.
Stefano4444 said:
Besides who say this its exclusive to just energy attacks?
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Who's to say it isn't?
Stefano4444 said:
What stop characters to apply the same principle into defense techniques such as Aura & Ki Barrier or to Punches & Kicks?
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Sure, you could definitely concentrate your Ki into your fist or your foot and amplify its power. People have done it. A Barrier simply isn't that, though? Right, we're talking about condensing one's energy to a small point, not projecting one's energy across a wide area; those are completely opposite concepts.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Except Frieza and Vegeta are naturally gifted prodigies, with the former being a mutant, and are elite-level among their peers.
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That doesn't make sense, i don't see them be gifted prodigies means they inherently know how to do that, especially when we don't have statements mention this.

By your logic they two should already been born with the ability to surpress their Ki to sense Ki, which isn't the case as they have to learn it first.
 
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Anyway, i think the risk DB characters turning into glass cannons, with physical stats below City level let alone Planet level, its still unlikely.

Any destruction feat done without explicit charging attacks (or when deal with feats perform with little effort) should still be valid to apply to the user's regular Attack Potency, which in turn should be apply to its Durability and Striking Strength.

Prime example be Piccolo busting the moon with a regular ki blast, and frankly the same should be apply to Frieza destroy Planet Vegeta as every version it show that he did it casually and you can't convince me that somehow his other stats can't scale from that.

Scaling its still a factor since there its a point where the power creep grew so big that frankly most characters in the 23rd Budokai can be reasonability assumed to physically more powerful than the Master Roshi's Moon busting feat even without them using their own Kamehameha.

Still i do disagree on Ki no longer quality as Universal Energy System, just because there are charging attacks.
 
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Stefano4444 said:
especially when we don't have statements mention this.
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What we do have are explicit examples of them using charged Ki Manipulation techniques, including—again—Vegeta's Galick Gun being explicitly compared to Goku's Kamehameha. What we know is Raditz and the Frieza Force soldiers cannot use special Ki Manipulation techniques, and Vegeta and Frieza can. Everything else is simply speculation as to why.
Stefano4444 said:
By your logic they two should already been born with the ability to surpress their Ki to sense Ki, which isn't the case as they have to learn it first.
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Firstly, do you think concentrating one's Ki (which even a young Goku can do) and suppressing or sensing Ki (which, by the beginning of Z, only Goku, Piccolo, Mr. Popo, and Kami were capable of) are equally as difficult? Secondly, Saiyans can fly from birth; I don't doubt a highly trained and gifted Saiyan like the prince would have developed the ability of charging his energy.
 
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