Caine is MFTL+ no way (TADC)

[IDK3465]

If I am to bring something up, Caine has stated that he wanted to accurately recreate the macroverse (AKA The Real World, which we all know is a universe), so it can very much be possible that he really is making things on a cosmic scale as accurately as possible, which would include the stars we constantly see in the background of the dimensions.

ok, that's actually a fair point for Caine having a reason to make realistic stars, though, I'm still hesitant on it being a full on 100% definitive 4-A due to how the circus mainly follows game logic, so we should probably just bump it down to just being a possibly at best, but at least that line confirms it isn't IMPOSSIBLE that Caine would want to do something like this. Then again, it also shows that Caine doesn't know that much on how the real world actually operates, sooo...

 

[StarShooter80]

The macroverse statement has too many variables to really justify for anything. Like yeah Caine meant the real world but by what extent did he want to accurately replicate it, because he could really just be referring to the planet itself. And do we have to assume it'll be done in an instant and not say overtime?

again, i dont care. Its just the way it should be. Im not wasting time making Staff Threads that wont resolve. It's just standard being concise with information.

Then why bother bringing it up in this thread, stop derailing if you're just gonna make the convo about how wrong the reality equalization standards are

 

[StrymULTRA]

ok, that's actually a fair point, though, I'm still hesitant on it being a full on 100% definitive 4-A due to how the circus mainly follows game logic, so we should probably just bump it down to just being a possibly at best, but at least that line confirms it isn't IMPOSSIBLE that Caine would want to do something like this

Huh... how? Like why is a "macroverse" supposed to mean anything?

A "possibly" isn't based on only "an assumption is not impossible", as said assumptions must have decently strong evidence to even back up that, why is a super vague term that downright has no definition on its own supposed to prove 4-A?

 

[Jinx666]

Then why bother bringing it up in this thread, stop derailing if you're just gonna make the convo about how wrong the reality equalization standards are

I literally didnt bring up reality equalization in the first place???

Though the fact Caine has been Tier 4 for years over whats very clearly a skybox just proves that without elaboration on where his stats work within, proves that it causes misconceptions. Which can then be fixed or referred to at least if the wiki didnt feel the need to not elaborate on verse context.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Okay, let me see.

Although Cain is a perfectionist and wants to recreate things perfectly, it seems he doesn't do it in detail?

Like, the sky in the digital circus is obviously not detailed; we even have drawn five-pointed stars. The Sun and Moon are also accepted as not being realistic nowadays.

Warped the Digital Circus' sky into a starry sky. Created the Candy Canyon Kingdom, which has a day and night

Like, looking at the examples.

In the first one we literally see unrealistic 5-pointed stars, and they reappear in the same scene. And in this day and night cycle, well... neither the Sun nor the Moon appear (and within digital scenarios, a literal sun isn't necessary to create day or night).

Furthermore, going back to the example of the starry sky at the Circus, well... another argument that it's "fake" is that we see the size of the circus.

Neither the Circus nor the sky extend for millions or billions of kilometers. It's basically that space, and the rest is surrounded by emptiness.

-

I don't have a concrete opinion on it, but I do have these doubts that I've highlighted.

 

[IDK3465]

Huh... how? Like why is a "macroverse" supposed to mean anything?

A "possibly" isn't based on only "an assumption is not impossible", as said assumptions must have decently strong evidence to even back up that, why is a super vague term that downright has no definition on its own supposed to prove 4-A?

idk, I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt here. Personally, I don't see it, like, at all, but I don't wanna be rude and say it's completely impossible he'd have the MOTIVE to make realistically-sized stars

 

[Randomuser3412]

super vague term that downright has no definition on its own supposed to prove 4-A?

By "Macroverse" Caine is just referring to the non-digital world outside of the circus. He believes that he's only seen a small section of it (the real-world office building).

 

[Psychomaster35]

As someone who watched only the first 2 episodes of TADS, explain to me why "Macroverse" suddenly means a whole universe? Checking online the term has no real definition and is just a fancy sci-fi term that does not mean anything on its own.

For context, Caine was looking at photos of the Real World (The place outside of the simulation which we see at the end of the pilot episode), and the Real World as we all know it is a universe. Combined with the fact that Gooseworx herself even stated something about a TADC universe, the Real World in TADC is pretty much a universe. In a sense, "macroverse" in this context means universe.

 

[Jinx666]

Caines creations arent even perfect. Pomni and Gummigoo literally clip into his model gallery in Episode 2 through a glitch

Caine refers to the Real World as a macroverse because hes digital. Thats his own understanding of it.

 

[StrymULTRA]

idk, I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt here. Personally, I don't see it, like, at all, but I don't wanna be rude and say it's completely impossible

Pointing out that something is impossible based on too vague evidence is not rudeness.

By "Macroverse" Caine is just referring to the non-digital world outside of the circus. He believes that he's only seen a small section of it (the real-world office building).

Again, the term is just too vague as it has no real definition and is just a technobabble until proven otherwise.

 

[LandonTheGuy]

following

 

[Alexander]

ok, that's actually a fair point for Caine having a reason to make realistic stars, though, I'm still hesitant on it being a full on 100% definitive 4-A due to how the circus mainly follows game logic, so we should probably just bump it down to just being a possibly at best, but at least that line confirms it isn't IMPOSSIBLE that Caine would want to do something like this. Then again, it also shows that Caine doesn't know that much on how the real world actually operates, sooo...

It follows cartoon logic

 

[StarShooter80]

I literally didnt bring up reality equalization in the first place???

You were though? You started saying that verses that rely on reality equalization should have a standard of being explicit in their ratings about it

 

[StrymULTRA]

For context, Caine was looking at photos of the Real World (The place outside of the simulation which we see at the end of the pilot episode), and the Real World as we all know it is a universe. Combined with the fact that Gooseworx herself even stated something about a TADC universe, the Real World in TADC is pretty much a universe. In a sense, "macroverse" in this context means universe.

I do not agree with this like at all. The term has no real context to it and "universe" could mean just the totality of a place that does not include what's outside it.

Caine was not looking at the whole reality beyond the circus, he was just looking at random rooms, he clearly was reffering to the planet at most and not a whole universe lol.

 

[Bsk_lyree]

That's actually headcanon. He can freely torture them, censor them, and mess with their minds and memories. We don’t know if he can kill them if he wants to. And no, he didn’t want to kill them in episode 8, some of his first lines during the crashout was “they won’t leave me”.

The best you can argue is Bubble, he genuinely can’t do a thing to him except popping him, but it is heavily implied they largely share the same code.

Well, from the start, Caine said he couldn't possess them or mess with their minds. Teleport, etc. is possible, but here, by "killing" I mean erasing them completely.
Caine will not be able to delete players/users/humans
This limitation shows that Caine here plays the role of admin, not omnipotent/developer here, then in episode 8 he can still be affected by emergency protocols. He can create but it's all in psuedo form

 

[Da3ggman]

How in the actual **** did this get to 4 pages in like a few hours???

 

[IDK3465]

It follows cartoon logic

Yeah? And also video game logic, the series is called the Amazing DIGITAL Circus for a reason. We see in the intro for the pilot that it has PS1-style graphics, it contains NPCs, Caine sends the circus members on "adventures", characters clip out of bounds and glitch out, it's a video game world, plain and simple

 

[LandonTheGuy]

How in the actual **** did this get to 4 pages in like a few hours???

TADC and Glitch productions are quiete big at the moment lol

 

[Bsk_lyree]

Is this like the plot of Fire Force and Soul Eater where, in their universe, the stars were turned into cartoonish shaped objects?Because even in that universe, they were still on the same "distance"

I don't quite understand your thinking, the equation between fire force and TADC in the FF case there is because delusions can become real
I hope you don't get too worked up and don't use weird equations/analogies anymore.

 

[Jinx666]

You were though? You started saying that verses that rely on reality equalization should have a standard of being explicit in their ratings about it

I didnt start with that whatsoever. I was prompted by others trying to act as if i dont know what reality equalization was (VS-thread dependent term) who literally kicked off that conversation. You're now continuing this just as much as me. All i did was just speak the most lol.

It should yeah, thats literally just the basis of being concise and factual, providing context of information. Thats clearly something any valid source of information should do. Doesnt mean im gonna invest my time when this wiki isn't efficient with CRTs in the first place, or it matters to me that much. Its the VSBW, get used to disagreements, it doesnt mean i need to do something about it.

 

[Kellex]

How in the actual **** did this get to 4 pages in like a few hours???

This is what Episode 8 does to some mfs.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Well, from the start, Caine said he couldn't possess them or mess with their minds. Teleport, etc. is possible, but here, by "killing" I mean erasing them completely.
Caine will not be able to delete players/users/humans
This limitation shows that Caine here plays the role of admin, not omnipotent/developer here, then in episode 8 he can still be affected by emergency protocols. He can create but it's all in psuedo form

He lied about not being able to mess with the human's minds (see episode 7). Nothing says he couldn't kill them, he just simply doesn't want to. Also, I'm 99% sure this is not relevant to this thread, so I don't know why this is being brought up...

 

[Da3ggman]

Also idk if its been addressed but the whole "Its made in the 90's and couldn't possibly hold that much" kinda falls apart when you realize the entirety of someones mind can be put inside of it, which is like 2.5 Petabytes of data, far above anything they could produce back then (and even now). Not sure if I agree of course, but I'm just saying.

 

[IDK3465]

I do not agree with this like at all. The term has no real context to it and "universe" could mean just the totality of a place that does not include what's outside it.

Caine was not looking at the whole reality beyond the circus, he was just looking at random rooms, he clearly was reffering to the planet at most and not a whole universe lol.

I... suppose that's fair
Yeah, I take back what I said earlier, we really just don't have a reason to assume these stars are real unless we REALLY want to stretch things and take them to their maximum conclusion

 

[Bsk_lyree]

If you go up far enough in Minecraft, you get stopped. If you go up far enough in WoW, you get stopped. If you go up far enough in Terraria, you get stopped. If you go up far enough in TADC keep going because we haven't seen the edge yet. That's my point. Like I said, I don't disagree with downgrading him, just not for these reasons.

Your reason is a bit??? Not visible = not existent. In TADC, void can be a limitation because what is there outside the void? There is nothing, even Caine himself said that there is nothing that can be considered a limitation/Border you mean.

So, do you want to give input on whether you agree or disagree?

 

[Jinx666]

Also idk if its been addressed but the whole "Its made in the 90's and couldn't possibly hold that much" kinda falls apart when you realize the entirety of someones mind can be put inside of it, which is like 2.5 Petabytes of data, far above anything they could produce back then (and even now). Not sure if I agree of course, but I'm just saying.

Never made that a main argument to begin with. It just obviously cant be comparable to Tier 4.
Theres literally nothing proving these creations are real or comparable as opposed to the much safer assumptions.

 

[Da3ggman]

Never made that a main argument to begin with. It just obviously cant be comparable to Tier 4.
Theres literally nothing proving these creations are real or comparable as opposed to the much safer assumptions.

I absolutely saw people making the argument of "90s tech lol", stop the ragebait lol. Also like I said I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, 'Im neutral rn.

 

[LandonTheGuy]

Also idk if its been addressed but the whole "Its made in the 90's and couldn't possibly hold that much" kinda falls apart when you realize the entirety of someones mind can be put inside of it, which is like 2.5 Petabytes of data, far above anything they could produce back then (and even now). Not sure if I agree of course, but I'm just saying.

Yeah, Caine has said that he posesses the brain scans of the varius circus participants that posses the memories of them, so even then we are already surpassing that 2.5 Petabytes of data.

 

[Jinx666]

I absolutely saw people making the argument of "90s tech lol", don't ragebait me lol. Also like I said I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, 'Im neutral rn.

I said that, It wasn't an argument I was making on my end or the main point of it. so you're wrong.
Trying to flip that as the context of what im saying is more of a 'ragebait lol'

Its just nothing close to comparable output of Tier 4 either way

 

[Bsk_lyree]

Sorry but with this you lowkey have asked to argue whether the Digital Circus is a cosmic sized realm lol.

Actually, I just wanted to bring up the issue of mftl+, but somehow it got extended to 4A scaling. I intend to bring up the 4A issue in another thread

 

[StrymULTRA]

Actually, I just wanted to bring up the issue of mftl+, but somehow it got extended to 4A scaling. I intend to bring up the 4A issue in another thread

Well too bad, you've brought this to yourself!

 

[Jinx666]

Actually, I just wanted to bring up the issue of mftl+, but somehow it got extended to 4A scaling. I intend to bring up the 4A issue in another thread

Might as well add it to the OP and kill two birds with one stone. You're getting enough traction to do so. The Verse has had this glaring issue since it was made

 

[LandonTheGuy]

also i think it's kinda stupid the whole "90s tech" argument, because i'm pretty sure modern VR doesn't work with 2 megabits of RAM lol

 

[Randomuser3412]

I brought up 4-A in the first place, all though, it was more of an offhanded remark that it also changes that if accepted. It should have been in the OP in the first place, most likely. I still tentatively agree with OP, though.

 

[Jinx666]

also i think it's kinda stupid the whole "90s tech" argument, because i'm pretty sure modern VR doesn't work with 2 megabits of RAM lol

For the third or fourth time atp, that was never an argument i made. The mentioning of the fact its from the 90s doesnt mean i was downplaying anything. Im aware fiction is fiction. The fact Caine isnt Tier 4 is just blatantly obvious in itself.

Idk why people can only zoom in on offhand things and misinterpret the entire argument. You dont need to disagree withh every single word of smthn

 

[Bsk_lyree]

Alr

Sebaiknya tambahkan saja ke postingan utama dan selesaikan dua masalah sekaligus. Anda sudah mendapatkan cukup perhatian untuk melakukannya. The Verse memang memiliki masalah yang mencolok ini sejak pertama kali dibuat.

Alr, But is it legal

 

[Jinx666]

Alr

Alr, But is it legal

Should be. Everyone else seems content on talking about the AP stat issue so no reason to hound you for making it the main topic of discussion for OP

 

[StrymULTRA]

Tbf the real kicker here is: what tier would Caine even be with his abilities? For the Danganronpa case I was lucky there was a picture of the whole world map in-game, but for TADC is there anything similar?

 

[Da3ggman]

I said that, It wasn't an argument I was making on my end or the main point of it. so you're wrong.
Trying to flip that as the context of what im saying is more of a 'ragebait lol'

You know what, fair enough, that's my bad. I'll refrain from commenting until I read through the full thread.

 

[Qurbonboev]

The fact Caine isnt Tier 4 is just blatantly obvious in itself.

It blatantly not obvious given thr fact it's already 4 pages