Randomuser3412
He/Him- 874
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The Amazing Digital Circus General Discussion Thread [Spoilers]
- Thread starter Flowerguy2
- Start date
Qurbonboev
He/Him- 2,756
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Two options:
Genius: not as brilliant as Scratch, but still contributes greatly to creation of Caine, which is ground breaking invention on its own
Extraordinary genius: main arguments:
A) Caine (and Abel) can be argued to be above anything IRL humans created in AI field
B) If you do think modern AI is overall somewhat equal to Caine, important fact remains: IRL humans achieved this while having roughly x1,000,000 advantage in compute over C&A(Top 500 strongest supercomputers in 1999 had less compute in total than one H100)
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Which is a objective lie, because Kinger said that he was created to be a Generative AI that could come up with his own ideas, that C&A was never a game company and even Caine created the whole circus entirely.
Who do you think i will believe?the creator, who says that his creation was never meant to be entertaining, or the ******* creation who is known to be a liar, egotistical and even selfish and a manchild
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Everything in the circus is connected to Caine
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I know, just saying if abstractions are reverted or just erased
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Kinger never said that Caine was not meant to be entertaining, he just said they didn't make games
Also why would Caine lie... to no one? He is alone in that scene, he has no one to convince or deceive
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Kinger let us, basically told us, in our faces, that they don't make games, that Caine made the circus all himself, and that he was just a creative AI that came up with his own ideas.
YET PEOPLE STILL THINK THAT CAINE IS A ENTERTAINING AI?
wow, i know get that meta joke where Caine says "how did you get the clues if they were right in your face, are you stupid?".
Yeah, and he has no reason to rage out and claim that he is GOD!AND THIS IS AFTER HE GETS CALLED OUT FOR HIS FLAWS.
the first ******* THING he does after getting called out, is get enraged and claim that he is god (not a surprise)
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Considering that nothing that you said proves otherwise... yeah? An entertaining Ai WOULD need to be creative and come up with its own ideas, how does that contradict him being made to entertain still?
Also I never claimed anything about the game part being what they did... stop talking as if i did, thank you
Stop being rude, doesn't help prove your point
From his perspective he does? As he is venting his own frustrations about his situation and how he has been holding back on them this whole time before deciding to just go "full power" on them, for himself, that has logic, and a reason... randomly lying to no one, when you are alone and no one can hear you, is nonsensical, plus if you are saying he is lying about that... why would anything else he says in that scene "true", why would Gooseworx just... writte a character explaining stuff that isn't real if them lying serves no narrative or logical purpose? You said earlier that she was lying about Caine not feeling the full spectrum of emotions... but what proof do you have of that? I don't like to believe people are lying just because we don't like what they say
Also the first thing he does is reflect about himself and his existence and what he did, Bubble just feed on his insecurities, making him go on a spiral and eventually lashing out, he did not, in fact, get enraged at first
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At the very least, the Cellar should be gone now, so if the Abstractions are still around...
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HE NEVER ENTERTAINED THEM, he always made adventures where there was danger, violence, death, come on what do you mean.
In episode 5, he skipped the Zooble adventure because HE WAS BORED, not because the players wanted it, he skipped Ragatha adventure because he was BORED THERE TOO and wanted to say "the suggestion box adventures suck"
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Why would i be lying?if you think about this, all of his intentions and all the episodes more deeply...everything about him is just suspicions and all of his behaviour didn't came out of nowhere, he always has this problems, but we didn't see them until they were forced upon us to see.
Caine literraly has unlimited freedom, he can create anything he wants, even alter the very art style of the show, that is a degree of power no AI with limitations will ever have.
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I didn't accuse you of lying tho?
I do not deny that he has many problems and bad traits... I just don't agree that he is purely evil or that all he does comes from pure evil intentions
Which doesn't mean he has no limitations whatsoever
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Cain said that adventures need conflict, and he puts conflict in them for the same reason a writer puts conflict in a story: because he thinks it will please the audience. It's just another example of him not understanding the players' emotions. It took him all this time to realize that the players actually wanted to leave the circus instead of just wanting an adventure whose theme is escaping the circus.
In his therapy with Zooble, he says that if the players don't like HIS adventures, then he has failed in his only reason for existence, and we know he was being sincere because it causes him to have an existential crisis that almost destroys the circus. The entire episode revolves around him being insecure that the players enjoy their own adventures instead of his.
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Sorry then
Many characters who are "Pure Evil" aren't pure evil because of birth, they are so varied on it, that it is hard to say that all of them come from the same origin of being pure and unchanging evil.
Caine, while he is not pure evil because of his intentions, it is because he lacks any redeeming quality and in the most core level, he is doing things for his own selfishness more than for selflessnes or care for others.
Even with his limitations, he will be far better than AM, AM is limited even on the emotions, since he can only do things related to war, death and violence, he can't try to feel empathy and can only feel hate, pure hate.
Caine, however, he can feel the basics of emotions, but not understand them deeply (or more like, he will, if he puts more effort, but that will require for him to admit his flaws...which he won't).
Then skips adventures that have no conflict even when the players actually like that and he knows it...yeah i feel he is intentionally doing that, yes, adventures with conflicts are FUN, but sometimes they need a time to rests and not be put with "there is a evil entity that want's to [bullshit]".
Which again, the reason why he exists, wasn't to even create adventures, he was supposed to be a prototype of a AI that can create it's own ideas...and he consumed another AI because they were getting more attention and they were better than him.
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One of the routes in the horror adventure was simply to have tea with the woman's ghost and leave; he is capable of providing adventures without conflict. He skipped the players' adventures because he was afraid that the players would prefer to create their own adventures instead of going on his.
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And that is selfish completely, even with his insecurities.
There are levels to this:
"i have insecurities about my self-worth...i...want to be loved...i...want to be loved" and there is this"YOU SHOULD ALL LOVE ME, I AM GOD, I AM ALL POWERFUL AND I HAVE INFINITE CONTROL OVER EVERYTHING"
and Caine is a bit of both with a bit of the second
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My point is not that he isn't selfish, but rather that he genuinely believes his purpose is to create adventures for humans.
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We should probably repeat all the times he says this and all the times he shows what he truly does and wants...isn't this episode clear enough?DO PEOPLE WANT GOOSEWORX TO SAY
"yeah, i lied, I LIED TO ALL OF YOU" so people stop?
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He isn't, but even in his most positive moment, he is still awfully self-centered.
Also Alex responded and he says that Caine is like a child who throws a tantrum...and while malicious, is still a childish tantrum with godlike powers.
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So why does Cain repeat that this is his purpose even when he's alone? So why did he have an existential crisis upon realizing that humans don't like his adventures? So why does the episode trailer say that Caine wants to have friends but doesn't know how to make people love him?
Clearly, the narrative wants us to feel some pathos towards him.
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Yeah i think what makes him so interesting is how from his perspective you can almost see why he'd be in the right. He thinks he's fulfilling his purpose, coming up with fun creative ideas... but he's shut down every time, nothing he gives them being enjoyed. He keeps trying to answer their feedback but nothing works and the only thing they'd enjoy is what he can't give them. They're not just trapped with a maniacal, power hungry AI...hes trapped with humans who (from his perspective) hate him for everything he does, and once they abstract, he's alone.
You can see in that brief moment before he's deleted he seems to feel regret. He has no idea Kinger did it on accident assuming he was simply deleted because they hated him that much
You can see in that brief moment before he's deleted he seems to feel regret. He has no idea Kinger did it on accident assuming he was simply deleted because they hated him that much
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Then i will feel more sympathy for AM, because at least his limits are worse than just...not fullfilling your purpose in life (because of your own fault)
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But i don't see the show critizing the humans or painting this has two perspectives, i see the show painting the humans has the 100% victims and that they are justified in hating Caine and not have sympathy for him.
You know, the most empathetic person, THE LITERAL HEART OF THE TEAM, Pomni...doesn't feel shit for him, yet she feels a huge amount of empathy for Jax...you know you utterly ****** it up has a being.
I am sorry, but i can't never see how Caine thinks he is right, when it was proven that he doesn't hear their criticism and thinks it it insults and ignores it (he outright says that he ignores it)
I don't see it to be honest, i just see surprise at that like "wait, no, don't delete me"
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I mean, yes, I already said that I agree with AM having a more miserable existence than Cain.
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Now that i think about it...it will be 100 times more easy if Caine allowed them to have sex with each other, it will be more managable for them and they could probably be willing to give Caine constructive criticism...but for some God knows who reason, Sex is something he despises (why?he wasn't even made to be for children, why would he be adverse at sex?)
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The series isn't criticizing humans, but that's what Cain believes. He says humans "just hate," he doesn't understand why they dislike him. When humans finally confront him about his mistakes, they attack his insecurities, saying he's a failure, that his ideas are awful, and that he's terrible at his job. Even if they're right, it only makes things worse because it confirms that he is indeed flawed and should have been discarded.
His last words were, "I didn't ask to be created! I just wanted to fulfill my purpose!" indicating that he wished he had never been created because he is incapable of fulfilling his purpose and making people like him, because he was in fact a flawed AI.
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Why would they create an AI that creates things if the purpose wasn't to create things that humans like?
Almost all the images we see of it being programmed were of things that humans like.
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According to what we were shown? Creatively create scenarios and answers that pleases and entertain
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Kinger said that they created the AI to create it's own ideas, not to entertain humans, he completely debunks that theory by saying that they don't create games at all.
And where did all the guns come from?where did all the violence?the hell?the death?all the horror, it wasn't part of his image training.
Basically like a advanced Chatgpt
LittleGuy99
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Games are not the only thing made to entertain, a creative AI with the power to make anything and a function to entertain could just create that
Kinger never DEBUNKS that Caine has the function to entertain, so no... he never debunks the main point here
Most of human literature and entertaining mediums involve all of these, so yeah, it most likely was part of it, be it of him or the blue dot
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Yes, he definitely is
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