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And tell me where I said that Jedi see 10 hours into the future or anything like that?
Dude that was a painfully, absurdly obvious hyperbole wtf are you talking đź’”?
They see recent time, maybe a few seconds at a time,
They don't. Otherwise Anakin wouldn't get sliced, Maul wouldn't get sliced, Windu wouldn't get stabbed, Palpatine wouldn't get thrown, and Snoke wouldn't get sliced.

Literally all of these and likely more core main story plot points would be impossible if they constantly saw few seconds into the future.
I never said hours. Even within the examples I showed, they don't give examples of hours in the future.
I genuinely find it unbelievable that you didn't catch that as a hyperbole. Like I'm actually flabbergasted.
It's not a secondary source.
It literally is. The main story that everyone is familiar with and that has actual mainstream relevance, which dictates and shows the core main story which everything else centers around are the movies.
Everything else are side stories with little to no relevance to the overarching narrative.

I'm again not saying they're less canon or anything but both their relevance to the narrative and their general quality are unfathomably lower.
You really don't understand that in Star Wars all media have exactly the same narrative importance? None has more weight than the others. Half of Star Wars is made up of novels.
That doesn't mean everything has equal relevance or quality and consistency. If you're going to sit here and tell me that Glup Shytto having a dinner with Poobert Fartimer in a novel 99% of SW watchers don't even know exists is equally relevant to how Anakin became Darth Vader or how Luke became a jedi and defeated the sith them I'm going to call you a liar. Both lying to me and yourself.

That's why you can't give me any feats for the precog from the movies and have to resort to inconsistent outliers from some randomass novel. Because these inconsistent outliers don't exist in the actual main story because the main story is actually trying to sustain some level of consistency and quality.
Give me a single source that shows novels are treated as a secondary source, or stop making up nonsense out of your own head.
This is like asking me for any source that shows 2+2=4. The very definition of "secondary" is "less important" so the novel is by definition a secondary source.

You don't need a source for this, these are facts by definition.
"any secondary source is very susceptible to contradictions because it's written by different authors"

Star Wars isn't a manga where a single author writes the script. Every media—whether it's movies, TV series, video games, etc.—has different teams and screenwriters. Even the movies and the original trilogy were all made by different directors and screenwriters. The argument you're using only applies to manga. Show me a single source on VSBattle where this applies to media other than manga.
Again this isn't some law this is literally just a thing of definitions and logic. A billion dollar movie that 99% of people are going to base their opinion of the series on is going to have a much higher production quality than a random novel some fat dude made in his basement that only 0.0001% of SW fans will ever read.

You're literally proving this by the fact that this extremely inconsistent and contradictory level of precog you're trying to argue for Obi-Wan exists ONLY in a novel like this.
Idk what to tell you about that man. About what you'd expect from someone who thinks Big Chungus having a one night stand with Booby Fett in a novel nobody has ever read is equally important to Anakin killing Padme.
That's not true.
Define "secondary".
Different works and different characters?
Yeah ik, I literally pointed that out.
Why are you citing them being teenagers as an argument?
I called them "12" and "prepubescent". That's not teenagers.

And I think it's pretty obvious why I pointed it out. Because it highlights how inexperienced and immature they are. Yk, things directly related to how cowardly you are or how strong your willpower is?
"If even teenagers can resist, Obi-Wan should resist."

So you mean Obi-Wan should resist anything they resist? That doesn't even make sense.
No that's not what I said. It's literally the opposite of what I said somehow.

I said even kids who are NOT even teenagers yet DON'T resist it but can overcome it because their mind/willpower is strong.
Because Naruto is a manga, belonging to a single individual, the author, in this case Kishimoto. When copyright belongs to a single individual, anything not written by him is secondary, because he is not the owner of the work.
That's not even remotely related to what I said. Being written by 50 dudes instead of 1 dude doesn't mean your story is magically allowed inconsistencies.
But this does not apply when works belong to a company itself. When that is the case, everything produced by the company for the franchise is primary source.
Fun fact 2: Naruto franchise belongs to Shueisha not Kishimoto. While Kishimoto does often oversee basically everything we consider canon, Boruto was primarily written by 2 different people and the novels are primarily written by multiple different authors too.
You mentioned that this novel is considered tertiary canon, right? Let's take a look at what the wiki classifies as tertiary canon.
Fun fact 3: Kishimoto directly oversaw the movies creation. He was directly noted as the executive producer and stated in an interview that he directly wrote the script for it. Still we only got tertiary canon for its novelization that was directly published by the publishing right owner Shueisha
This doesn't exist for Star Wars because there is no longer "The author of Star Wars," since the IP itself belonged to a company. And everything is produced by companies that Disney owns or oversees. Nothing is unsupervised.
And Naruto is owned by Shueisha. Isn't that funny
 
This is getting overly obnoxious and long so I'll just give you a TLDR and be done with it because this is really a waste of time.

If the star wars movies don't respect the novels inconsistent ideas about future sights magnitude then neither do I. I'm not going to sit here and entertain an idea which even the main story itself not only doesn't ever acknowledge but straight up contradicts.

This isn't me saying it's not canon, I fully acknowledge the novels canonicity and validity in anything non-contradictory. This is me pointing out a huge inconsistency which you yourself have agreed, are things that normally shouldn't be used as arguments.
 
Yeah bro seeing 10 hours into the future and 1 picosecond into the future are totally the same thing 🔥.

Why do you keep strawmanning me this bad? I verbatim told you I'm not denying precog but the magnitude which you're trying to imply.

I literally verbally acknowledged and agreed that they have precog like 5x already and specifically explained that I'm denying the magnitude not the ability. Are you really so desperate you have to make up a version of my argument that doesn't exist?

A novel side story for movies is a secondary source. It can be primary canon and still be secondary source.


The point is that regardless of what kind of canon it is, any secondary source is very susceptible to contradictions because it's written by different authors and goes under less supervision than a multi million dollar movie. It's canonicity doesn't matter because that's not what I'm arguing against.

But given how I also made it clear I'm not arguing against precog and you still kept pretending I am you're probably going to twist this too.

You're telling me you understand MY argument better than me? Yeah brochacho I'm sure you do

A novel side story for a movie franchise is a secondary source regardless of how canon it is. And again I never doubted it's canonicity so stop strawmanning me.

No it's literally just the fear causing all this. I already told you that characters like 12 year old Naruto and 12 year old Sasuke can overcome this purely through willpower and courage.

I mean sure, I just didn't expect Obi-Wan to be such a bum he can't even handle what prepubescent kids can handle, given how important it is to have a strong mind in SW

Fun fact, the Boruto Movie novelization doesn't provide contradictions even 1/10 as bad as this and that was enough to consider it barely as tertiary canon on the wiki.

But I guess for star wars we can ignore 25+ hours of main story movies being contradicted in favor of a random novel just because it tickles the pickle of powerscalers.
gng the novels, shows, comics, and games are canon unless they are from legends

You can't really change that unless you want to consider crap like 2008 Clone Wars, Mandalorian, or whatever as "secondary canon."

That logic only applies if you are using Lucas Canon, which only considers the first 6 films as canon. But Obi-Wan's profile is for Disney Canon, meaning anything published by Disney would be considered primary sources even if they are not the movies. Again, this is Disney Kenobi, so novels, comics, games, and shows under Disney are about as canon as the films. Not one is more "primary" or "secondary" than the other unless this is Lucas Canon.

Also go make a CRT. Everything Team Kenobi says is accepted in the profiles. If you find an issue with that, don't discuss it here, but make your own thread to remove it.
 
gng the novels, shows, comics, and games are canon unless they are from legends
This has to be ragebait because I literally repeated like 5x in a single comment that I'm not questioning the canonicity. Holy shit man I'm praying for your own good you're either being purposely disingenuous or ragebaiting because if you're not then I have some bad news for you…
Also go make a CRT. Everything Team Kenobi says is accepted in the profiles. If you find an issue with that, don't discuss it here, but make your own thread to remove it.
Again, I'm not questioning the canonicity are you actually just not reading what I'm saying? I'm telling you I'm not granting Obi-Wan some precog level he has literally never displayed because of some trashy inconsistent novel.

I'm not disagreeing with the profiles I'm disagreeing with your arguments. If the Jedi don't have this level of future sight 99.9% of the time and then suddenly have it in one side story novel then that's an inconsistency that we can't use for vs threads.
 
This has to be ragebait because I literally repeated like 5x in a single comment that I'm not questioning the canonicity. Holy shit man I'm praying for your own good you're either being purposely disingenuous or ragebaiting because if you're not then I have some bad news for you…

Again, I'm not questioning the canonicity are you actually just not reading what I'm saying? I'm telling you I'm not granting Obi-Wan some precog level he has literally never displayed because of some trashy inconsistent novel.

I'm not disagreeing with the profiles I'm disagreeing with your arguments. If the Jedi don't have this level of future sight 99.9% of the time and then suddenly have it in one side story novel then that's an inconsistency that we can't use for vs threads.
"B-but it's a novel"

THEN MAKE A CRT BECAUSE THAT'S ACCEPTED ON PROFILES!

Oh, and good luck with that CRT because you'll have to convince the MODs to completely change how we handle Star Wars canon material.
 
"B-but it's a novel"

THEN MAKE A CRT BECAUSE THAT'S ACCEPTED ON PROFILES!

Oh, and good luck with that CRT because you'll have to convince the MODs to completely change how we handle Star Wars canon material.
SW fans either gotta be the most desperate disingenuous people or just straight up illiterate because not only did I not say it's not canon because it's from a novel or ANYTHING even close to that but I repeatedly agreed and acknowledged it's canonicity.

"B-but the novel feats!"

They're inconsistent outliers that contradict the main story. I'm not going to pretend Obi-Wan can constantly see multiple moments into the future when for 99% of the series his precog is unfathomably weaker to the point where it being that strong would completely change the story.

So again please for the love of God stop strawmanning me with arguments I didn't make just to make yourself feel better.
 
SW fans either gotta be the most desperate disingenuous people or just straight up illiterate because not only did I not say it's not canon because it's from a novel or ANYTHING even close to that but I repeatedly agreed and acknowledged it's canonicity.

"B-but the novel feats!"

They're inconsistent outliers that contradict the main story. I'm not going to pretend Obi-Wan can constantly see multiple moments into the future when for 99% of the series his precog is unfathomably weaker to the point where it being that strong would completely change the story.

So again please for the love of God stop strawmanning me with arguments I didn't make just to make yourself feel better.
You say this despite being the guy who can't read: "THEN MAKE A CRT BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY ACCEPTED IN PROFILES," even though this has already been said dozens of times in this thread.

The Jedi using Premonition in combat is consistent in the expanded universe. You know all the times the Jedi block blaster fire? That's because of their Premonition/instinctive action abilities, all accepted and edited in profiles.

That "inconsistent garbage novel" was written by the guy who's been writing for Star Wars since the 90s and is definitely more familiar with the expanded universe than you.

If you don't have knowledge of the verse beyond the basics, then don't argue about what's already accepted in profiles with people who actually do.
 
You say this despite being the guy who can't read: "THEN MAKE A CRT BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY ACCEPTED IN PROFILES," even though this has already been said dozens of times in this thread.
I don’t have to make a CRT, I'm not disagreeing with the profiles. I don't disagree that the novel events did happen or that this level of precog is theoretically possible for the characters.

I'm disagreeing with your argument that this is somehow the level of precog Obi-Wan and other Jedi can constantly access and spam. The way it's in the profiles isn't a problem the way you're arguing it be used is.
The Jedi using Premonition in combat is consistent in the expanded universe. You know all the times the Jedi block blaster fire? That's because of their Premonition/instinctive action abilities, all accepted and edited in profiles.
Again are you just purposely strawmanning me or did you actually just not read what I said and immediately reverted to you pre-programmed arguments like a bot?

In this very thread I REPEATEDLY said that I'm NOT saying Jedi having precog or IA is inconsistent. I specifically addressed this strawman like 5x already. I said the level of precog that you're arguing for is inconsistent.
That "inconsistent garbage novel" was written by the guy who's been writing for Star Wars since the 90s and is definitely more familiar with the expanded universe than you.
Cool, it could be written by the president of Poland for all I care.
If you don't have knowledge of the verse beyond the basics, then don't argue about what's already accepted in profiles with people who actually do.
I'm pretty sure watching 25+ hours worth of movies + like 5 additional hours of TV shows makes me knowledgeable enough to say "yeah man these mfers do NOT see entire future sequences before they happen THAT far ahead at all times, otherwise half of the plot deciding moments wouldn't even happen".

But honestly at this point, what even is the purpose of this discussion? You're clearly not even reading what I'm saying and now you're even trying to pull some goofyass argument from false authority. I can't speak about what happens in the movies that I watched unless I read some random novels about different events? Yeah sure buddy whatever you say 🔥
 
I don’t have to make a CRT, I'm not disagreeing with the profiles. I don't disagree that the novel events did happen or that this level of precog is theoretically possible for the characters. I'm disagreeing with your argument that this is somehow the level of precog Obi-Wan and other Jedi can constantly access and spam. The way it's in the profiles isn't a problem the way you're arguing it be used is.

Again are you just purposely strawmanning me or did you actually just not read what I said and immediately reverted to you pre-programmed arguments like a bot?
Everything that has been argued for the Jedi is in the profiles, including the fact that their premonition/instinctive action is applicable in combat.
In this very thread I REPEATEDLY said that I'm NOT saying Jedi having precog or IA is inconsistent. I specifically addressed this strawman like 5x already. I said the level of precog that you're arguing for is inconsistent.
Jedi are trained from childhood to block blaster fire blindfolded. Do you know why children can do that? Now imagine a Jedi Master at Obi-Wan's level.
Cool, it could be written by the president of Poland for all I care.
I was arguing that the author writes consistently for Star Wars and is familiar with the lore of the universe, since your argument was about inconsistency.
I'm pretty sure watching 25+ hours worth of movies + like 5 additional hours of TV shows makes me knowledgeable enough to say "yeah man these mfers do NOT see entire future sequences before they happen THAT far ahead at all times, otherwise half of the plot deciding moments wouldn't even happen".

But honestly at this point, what even is the purpose of this discussion? You're clearly not even reading what I'm saying and now you're even trying to pull some goofyass argument from false authority. I can't speak about what happens in the movies that I watched unless I read some random novels about different events? Yeah sure buddy whatever you say 🔥
Star Wars has almost 400 novels, over a thousand comic book issues, tons of video games, and an average episode of a Star Wars TV series is half an hour long. Clone Wars has 7 seasons (9 if you count 2D), The Bad Back has 3, Rebels has 4, Andor has 2, The Mandalorian has 3, and the list goes on.
 
Everything that has been argued for the Jedi is in the profiles, including the fact that their premonition/instinctive action is applicable in combat.
Never argued otherwise.
Jedi are trained from childhood to block blaster fire blindfolded. Do you know why children can do that? Now imagine a Jedi Master at Obi-Wan's level.
Never argued otherwise.
I was arguing that the author writes consistently for Star Wars and is familiar with the lore of the universe, since your argument was about inconsistency.
Doesn't mean he can't ever be inconsistent.
Star Wars has almost 400 novels, over a thousand comic book issues, tons of video games, and an average episode of a Star Wars TV series is half an hour long. Clone Wars has 7 seasons (9 if you count 2D), The Bad Back has 3, Rebels has 4, Andor has 2, The Mandalorian has 3, and the list goes on.
I really don't care how many novels that like 17 people even read are out there ngl.
Kanan is a mid-level Jedi Knight and he can Block hundres of blasters at the same time BTW
That's cool, I never argued otherwise.

It's a bit funny how any time you bring up a feat or a statement outside of the novel it's drastically less impressive than the novel would imply.

Like the original argument was that his precog is as good or better than a mastered 3 tomoe sharingan but every statement or feat outside that one novel is barely about equal to a beginner 2 tomoe sharingan precog.
 
Never argued otherwise.
Great
Never argued otherwise.
Great
Doesn't mean he can't ever be inconsistent.
I've already addressed the consistency
I really don't care how many novels that like 17 people even read are out there ngl.
"Brother, who reads books?"

I'll take that as a concession that you don't have much knowledge about the verse.
That's cool, I never argued otherwise.

It's a bit funny how any time you bring up a feat or a statement outside of the novel it's drastically less impressive than the novel would imply.

Like the original argument was that his precog is as good or better than a mastered 3 tomoe sharingan but every statement or feat outside that one novel is barely about equal to a beginner 2 tomoe sharingan precog.
I never argued that his premonition was better than Naruto's, only that the feat wasn't an outlier.
 
This has to be ragebait because I literally repeated like 5x in a single comment that I'm not questioning the canonicity. Holy shit man I'm praying for your own good you're either being purposely disingenuous or ragebaiting because if you're not then I have some bad news for you…

Again, I'm not questioning the canonicity are you actually just not reading what I'm saying? I'm telling you I'm not granting Obi-Wan some precog level he has literally never displayed because of some trashy inconsistent novel.

I'm not disagreeing with the profiles I'm disagreeing with your arguments. If the Jedi don't have this level of future sight 99.9% of the time and then suddenly have it in one side story novel then that's an inconsistency that we can't use for vs threads.
"One side story novel" is a wild claim when it's a full-fledged story from one of the most prolific novelists in Star Wars


Make a CRT if you find this troublesome, this is not the place for this.
 
The force not bypassing fear hax doesn't even sound right.
where are the diehard naruto and star wars nerds?
 
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