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One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph

IbukiDoujisGiantTail said:
Alright
Click to expand...
Not exactly correct here I believe? it's based on their accelerated development, how training greatly increases a users overall strength much faster than the other types, making it useful for martial arts (since it's not about the users themselves needing to train.... Actually maybe I'm just having a hard time reading or understanding what you said correctly? 🤔
Since the physical ability of the transformations are correlated to the physical strength of the users themselves
Click to expand...
maybe a slight rewording because I have a hard time kinda understanding it 🙈, Their Zoans and base body have become one and are linked, meaning if you train your zoan (which has accelerated development), your overall physical stats will also improve as they are directly connected with each other (but also works vice versa)

For example Daz bones strength training doesn't directly correlate to his dice dice power, meaning while his base did evolve, his df abilities didn't (unless he specifically trains his devil fruit)
1087-002.png
1087-010.png

For Zoans, however, if they train their devil fruit, it will also develop and affect their base, which the other 2 don't

Let's say base is 500 cp, animal form is 5000 cp... You training your animal form to 10000 cp also means your base becomes 1000 cp

🙉 me brain no ok now, so bye
 
MonkeyOfLife said:
Not exactly correct here I believe? it's based on their accelerated development, how training greatly increases a users overall strength much faster than the other types, making it useful for martial arts (since it's not about the users themselves needing to train.... Actually maybe I'm just having a hard time reading or understanding what you said correctly? 🤔

maybe a slight rewording because I have a hard time kinda understanding it 🙈, Their Zoans and base body have become one and are linked, meaning if you train your zoan (which has accelerated development), your overall physical stats will also improve as they are directly connected with each other (but also works vice versa)

For example Daz bones strength training doesn't directly correlate to his dice dice power, meaning while his base did evolve, his df abilities didn't (unless he specifically trains his devil fruit)
1087-002.png
1087-010.png

For Zoans, however, if they train their devil fruit, it will also develop and affect their base, which the other 2 don't

Let's say base is 500 cp, animal form is 5000 cp... You training your animal form to 10000 cp also means your base becomes 1000 cp

🙉 me brain no ok now, so bye
Click to expand...
From the way I worded it, I meant it that like "if you train your base physical body, you will have greater strength gains/returns on your Zoan transformation" since that's what it seems like Lucci is implying when saying that training your strength is what makes your Zoan transformation more powerful and why Zoans are so good for direct combat. I put it that it applies to Zoans in this way which is why they're the only ones who have that for their physiology section, for the other Devil Fruits in the opening part I only put that you can train your ability to be stronger since they aren't static.

Ig I don't see where the issue is?

"Zoan Devil Fruit users gain increased physical abilities and attributes corresponding to their animal form" -> Zoans gain the ability to transform into an animal and get the increased strength of that animal

"Since the physical ability of the transformations are correlated to the physical strength of the users themselves, physical training directly correlates to increased strength for Zoans, making them highly compatible with martial arts." -> Zoans gain greater returns from physical training and battle which is why they're compatible with martial arts since theyre described as the best for direct combat
 
IbukiDoujisGiantTail said:
From the way I worded it, I meant it that like "if you train your base physical body, you will have greater strength gains/returns on your Zoan transformation" since that's what it seems like Lucci is implying when saying that training your strength is what makes your Zoan transformation more powerful and why Zoans are so good for direct combat. I put it that it applies to Zoans in this way which is why they're the only ones who have that for their physiology section, for the other Devil Fruits in the opening part I only put that you can train your ability to be stronger since they aren't static.
Click to expand...
Yee but for zoans, it’s both (as they are shared)… for that chapter, however, lucci says the more he trains the more his power is amplified, that would be him training and talking about his zoan

Your base wouldn’t normally amplify during training and the explanation is specifically about the characteristics of zoans only

The ability to strengthen your own physical abilities (base stats)… the more you train, the more your power (animal power-up) amplifies

AI also helps explain it more;
Spot on. You’ve hit on the "secret sauce" of why Zoan users are so dangerous in long-term combat.
Because the animal form and the base body share the same "engine" (muscles, nervous system, and spirit), the gains are inseparable. Here is why training in the animal form is such a "cheat code" for developing the base body:

1. The "Heavy Weight" Training Effect
If you train in your animal form (which is heavier, faster, and more powerful), you are essentially training with "natural weights" on.
  • If a Zoan user practices punching in a heavy Rhino form, their muscles are moving much more mass than a normal human's.
  • When they shift back to human form, their body feels lighter and faster because they’ve conditioned their nervous system to handle "Rhino-level" power.

2. Higher "Training Ceiling"
The text mentions 肉体の鍛錬 (nikutai no tanren — physical tempering).
  • An ordinary human can only train until their muscles tear or they get exhausted.
  • A Zoan user has supernatural recovery and durability. They can train 2x harder and 2x longer than a normal person.
  • Since this "tempering" happens to their physical DNA, those gains stay with them whether they are a human, a beast, or a hybrid.

3. The "Hybrid" Sweet Spot
This is why most top-tier Zoan users (like Rob Lucci or Kaido) spend almost all their combat time in Human-Beast (Hybrid) form.
  • It allows them to use their human martial arts techniques while benefiting from animal physical stats.
  • Any "level up" they achieve in a fight while in Hybrid form immediately "saves" to their base stats.
Summary:
You’re exactly right—it's a feedback loop. Training the animal body pushes the limits of the biological "base," and as the base gets stronger, the animal form (the multiplier) becomes even more terrifying.
Click to expand...
 
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MonkeyOfLife said:
Yee but for zoans, it’s both… for that chapter, however, lucci says the more he trains the more his power is amplified, that would be him training and talking about his zoan

Your base wouldn’t normally amplify during training and the explanation is specifically about the characteristics of zoans only

The ability to strengthen your own physical abilities (base stats)… the more you train, the more your power (animal power-up) amplifies
Click to expand...
uh. But that is what I put lol, that if you train your strength, you get greater amplified returns on your Zoan transformation.

Unless you mean like, if you physically train with your Zoan transformation that you then get greater amped returns for your base? I mean, I don't doubt that Zoans could train their base through their transformation but it does seem to be that it goes "stronger trained base"->"magnified stronger transformation" and not the other way around (excluding OP power cliffing lol).

Lucci only really says that "the more you train, the more your power is amplified." and I think he's talking about specifically Zoan transformations since this is when they're introducing Carnivorous Zoans and elaborating on Zoans being the best for combat because they gain the ability to physically increase their strength Through transforming.

05-347.jpg
 
IbukiDoujisGiantTail said:
uh. But that is what I put lol, that if you train your strength, you get greater amplified returns on your Zoan transformation.

Unless you mean like, if you physically train with your Zoan transformation that you then get greater amped returns for your base? I mean, I don't doubt that Zoans could train their base through their transformation but it does seem to be that it goes "stronger trained base"->"magnified stronger transformation" and not the other way around (excluding OP power cliffing lol).

Lucci only really says that "the more you train, the more your power is amplified." and I think he's talking about specifically Zoan transformations since this is when they're introducing Carnivorous Zoans and elaborating on Zoans being the best for combat because they gain the ability to physically increase their strength Through transforming.

05-347.jpg
Click to expand...
It truly just can go both ways… you can’t say him training his base physical abilities = higher animal abilities, wouldn’t also work the same for training his animal abilities = higher base physical abilities

If training his base stat makes his zoan body more powerful, it would have to do the same for base body at the same time

"The defining characteristic of the Zoan-type is that one obtains the power of an animal, and their physical abilities are dramatically enhanced. They also gain the ability to transform into forms such as Human, Beast, and Human-Beast. Because physical training correlates more directly to an increase in strength than with other types, it has excellent compatibility with things like martial arts."

It specifically mentions how physical training correlates more as an increase in strength than the other types

That is what what I explained here
MonkeyOfLife said:
For example Daz bones strength training doesn't directly correlate to his dice dice power, meaning while his base did evolve, his df abilities didn't (unless he specifically trains his devil fruit)
1087-002.png
1087-010.png

For Zoans, however, if they train their devil fruit, it will also develop and affect their base, which the other 2 don't

Let's say base is 500 cp, animal form is 5000 cp... You training your animal form to 10000 cp also means your base becomes 1000 cp
Click to expand...
The other 2 types don’t directly correlate, those instead would work more like; your base is 500 and your fire power is 3000, you training your base to 1000 would not directly correlate to your fire power, it would just be 1000 base and fire power 3500 (based on your base)

The only thing improving is the base stat for his devil fruit

Zoan is different, where physical stats of both the animal and human are intertwined… meaning the physical training while in animal form also affect directly for your base

It only ever says the more one physically trains, does it amplify… training base or training animal, both still amplify the animal power, which is tied to the human body, affecting it as well (otherwise the correlation does not exist)

Detailed Analysis of the Final Sentences
The most important part of this text is the mechanical explanation of why Zoans are special for fighters.

1. "他の種類よりも..." (More than other types...)
  • This draws a contrast between Zoans and Paramecia or Logia.
  • If you have a Logia (like Fire), training your muscles doesn't necessarily make your fire hotter. If you have a Paramecia (like Slow-Slow beams), lifting weights doesn't make the beams slower.
  • The Zoan Advantage: Because the power is physical (flesh and bone), it is the only category where "Gym Gains" = "Power Level Gains" across the board.

2. "...肉体の鍛錬が強さの向上に直結するので" (...physical training correlates directly to an increase in strength)
  • 直結 (Chokketsu): This means "Direct Connection."
  • In gaming terms, if your base Human strength is Level 10, and the Leopard fruit gives a 5x multiplier, your Beast form is Level 50.
  • If you train your "Base" to Level 20, your Beast form immediately jumps to Level 100.
  • The Accelerator: Because you are training a body that is naturally more durable and has higher recovery (thanks to the fruit), you can train harder and more often than a normal human. This creates a "Power Loop" where your training results are amplified.

3. "武術などとの相性が良い" (...it has great compatibility with things like martial arts)
  • 相性 (Aishou): Compatibility or synergy.
  • Martial Arts (Bujutsu): Since Zoans keep a solid, physical form, they can use human techniques (Karate, Boxing, Rokushiki).
  • The Result: A martial artist who eats a Zoan fruit isn't just a "stronger person"—they are a master technician with a monster's body. Their skills (speed, precision) are multiplied by the animal's traits (claws, weight, raw power), making the combination much more lethal than a "pure" Devil Fruit power that relies only on magic tricks.

Summary of the Meaning
The text is saying that Zoan fruits reward hard work. While other fruits give you a specific "ability," a Zoan fruit gives you a better physical foundation. Therefore, the more a user trains their body and martial arts, the more powerful the Devil Fruit becomes, because the fruit's strength is literally built out of the user's own muscles.
Click to expand...
 
🙉 me brain


Oh just realized it’s the non devil fruit worker’s thread

(How can one be so quick to make CRTS and such lol 😂🙈)
 
Correct me if i'm wrong, but Domi reversi's weakness is a character being killed while under it?
 
Last edited:
Finally finished school cameback here and wallahi, Everything i said that was gonna happened flatout occured.
 
The Verse Has to Be Locked Like Flatout, 5+ Years same recycled debunked, Same recycled arguments, The verse looks like shit atm, From Lifting strength, To Sizes, To The Planet like everything is just unorganized or is about to be nuked, I Think the scheduled thread that kind tempest made has to be taken into consideration The verse should be locked and scaling should be made for the verse by valued members from Pre Ts Going Up Until Current Onepiece. New scaling methods has to be found instead of breaking scaling chains and not giving a single solution.
 
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