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INCON* GRACE [10-9-0] Leon S. Kennedy - OG vs Remake

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Nonynho

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Because why not?

-RE2 and its Remake are used here
-Speed equal
-Fight's at Dust 2, no line of sight, they start in opposite sides
-Both have 8 inventory slots
OG= Upgraded Desert Eagle 50A.E., Knife, 3 full slots of magnum bullets and 3 slots of green herbs mixed with red herbs

Remake= Lightning Hawk, Combat Knife, 3 full slots of MAG ammo, 3 slots of green herbs mixed with red herbs

Stats facts:
OG has ~1,28x AP (0,002359464627 tons vs 0,00303 tons)
OG has ~10,04x durability (0,002359464627 tons vs 0,0237 tons)
OG is one tier above in LS (Average Human vs Peak Human)
Remake Leon's marksmanship/martial arts description is considerably superior


1998 actually in 1998 - DemonicDude, Baken384, M3X_2.0, CatLover313, XSOULOFCINDERX, Unknownnah, Lonkitt, Chariot190, Qurbonboev, Mr. Bambu

1998 but it's 2019 - nonynho, Ztesrxgdfjcvgkbh, VladimirMakarov317, BlackDarkness679, Naito-Desu, Thermor, CasperSenar, Tuxidoe_Redo, Soul_Nitro_Deluxe

Incon -
 
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besides bumping, i think Remake's Leon's taking this as his aiming is quite superior
 
Depends on who has better shooting, it’s inconclusive unless you take dark side chronicles frantic shooting as proof of better aiming skills for OG.
 
Voting remake Leon, since inventory slots are available, they'll likely just continue shooting at each other, so the better marksman has the better chance of winning
 
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And that's why i think Remake Leon wins

I think that's a pretty surface level way of comparing their marksmanship skills. OG RE2 Leon's skill with firearms comes off as far more impressive if you check his intelligence section. Remake RE2 Leon just getting high marks doesn't feel as strong by comparison
 
I think that's a pretty surface level way of comparing their marksmanship skills. OG RE2 Leon's skill with firearms comes off as far more impressive if you check his intelligence section. Remake RE2 Leon just getting high marks doesn't feel as strong by comparison
This guide is a recognition from someone outside of the verse, saying he's better than the average cop, which is something we can easily see just by looking

But not only the remakes' has the same, it has a recognition from an in-game source too.

This should not give him a 100%-overwhelming-crazy advantage, though for sure gives a dent big enough to be able to gg the OG
 
This guide is a recognition from someone outside of the verse, saying he's better than the average cop, which is something we can easily see just by looking

But not only the remakes' has the same, it has a recognition from an in-game source too.

This should not give him a 100%-overwhelming-crazy advantage, though for sure gives a dent big enough to be able to gg the OG

I never said it was 100% overwhelming. At the same time, you're making it sound like he's only better than the average cop, when they're saying his firearms skills are far beyond the average cop. There's a difference
 
Like, high marks implies that Remake RE2 Leon at most got the highest possible scores during his training. The claim for OG RE2 Leon feels a lot more significant given it's not just a case of "oh he's a rookie who's better than the average cop with a gun", it's a case of "he's far beyond the average cop in marksmanship" and that's based on his use of the desert eagle alone

Plus given how proficient in survival that OG RE2 Leon is, I'd hardly say this is a straightforward GG. OG RE2 Leon's not gonna make himself an easy target
 
It’s kinda hard to compare their combat abilities to be fair, since RE2, both the OG and Remake, are mostly about surviving and not battling the dangers of the RPD with shooting everything, etc. So the gameplay is far more contained in walking, shooting slow enemies with regular pistols etc.

I don’t think that marksmanship is gonna make any difference here, it’s not like they have a big enough difference to outskill each other. So I’m gonna go with the obvious here, and vote OG Leon for the superior stats. 10x durability and superior LS should give him the edge eventually.
 
It’s kinda hard to compare their combat abilities to be fair, since RE2, both the OG and Remake, are mostly about surviving and not battling the dangers of the RPD with shooting everything, etc. So the gameplay is far more contained in walking, shooting.

I don’t think that marksmanship is gonna make any difference here, it’s not like
 
Remake should win, but not for a single reason here and the profiles don't even remotely convey the reasons why. Going by the current profiles, Classic has effectively everything Remake has, plus a hefty stat advantage, and the things they do overlap in currently, he has more going for him, more fights he partook in, more experience dealing with nimble targets, even going by the profile the marksmanship leans towards classic currently at a pure face value stance.
 
Like, high marks implies that Remake RE2 Leon at most got the highest possible scores during his training. The claim for OG RE2 Leon feels a lot more significant given it's not just a case of "oh he's a rookie who's better than the average cop with a gun", it's a case of "he's far beyond the average cop in marksmanship" and that's based on his use of the desert eagle alone
Again, it is a guidebook, not a in-verse source claim and it is visibly applicable to both

Plus given how proficient in survival that OG RE2 Leon is, I'd hardly say this is a straightforward GG. OG RE2 Leon's not gonna make himself an easy target
I also don't see it like that, just that REmakes' has a dent enough to win here

So I’m gonna go with the obvious here, and vote OG Leon for the superior stats. 10x durability and superior LS should give him the edge eventually.
Why would any of them let the combat get physical when they have an upgraded version of their most favored weapon and a complex enough scenario full of covers?

Remake should win
Will count as vote.
 
Again, it is a guidebook, not a in-verse source claim and it is visibly applicable to both
And? Since when did guidebooks somehow mean less than in-universe statements? If anything it's better because it's coming from a omniscient narrator.
Why would any of them let the combat get physical when they have an upgraded version of their most favored weapon and a complex enough scenario full of covers?
Because they can dodge. They're both fast enough to just never get hit by gunfire if they're having a firefight at a distance; further distance, more time to dodge, as such they're basically forced to get up close to some degree.
Like they ain't Ocelot, they're not gonna ricochet a bullet to make it do wacky shit and hit even if they do dodge.
Will count as vote.
Read everything I said following that and then give me a damn good reason not to get a mod in here.
 
Read everything I said following that and then give me a damn good reason not to get a mod in here.
Every tiny thing that exists is resulting on you wanting to call a mod, how little-minded can someone be, huh?
People can misunderstand things, can't they? I thought you were better and i regret ever calling you a good debater as i more than once did.

And? Since when did guidebooks somehow mean less than in-universe statements? If anything it's better because it's coming from a omniscient narrator.
Because of what i said like twice, including right after this one: What the guidebooks say is observable for both OG and REmakes' Leon and for other reasons that get guidebook statements not immediatelly approved just for the sake of being guidebooks' material

Because they can dodge. They're both fast enough to just never get hit by gunfire if they're having a firefight at a distance; further distance, more time to dodge, as such they're basically forced to get up close to some degree.
Yes but if you see that someone is more or less as good of a marksman as you and you have a scenario full of covers, why would you wanna discover if you have a physical strength advantage by likely very dangerously approaching? Leon (OG or REmakes') knows that the gun each other has at hand can be used at a close range also, so it does not seem tactical to attempt this and the result will be visible only LSwise due to the AP diff being negligible
 
Every tiny thing that exists is resulting on you wanting to call a mod, how little-minded can someone be, huh?
Your failure to read what I said properly shouldn't be other people's problems. It is your job to not pull that shit, this ain't even the 1st time. Also, if you constantly partake in suspicious behavior, yeah that ain't on me, you've just been kind of being sus lately idk what you expect from me there, stop being sus ig which I completely forgot about till you just mentioned it.
Though, little-minded I'd consider an insult, not really helping any potential case you might have if your immediate response to your mishap is resorting to insults and backhanded remarks instead of just saying "shit my b" and fixing it.

Personally I don't care if you think it's tiny, simply stop.
People can misunderstand things, can't they?
Not if they read properly. There's literally no world you could take what I said there as a legitimate vote towards the exact opposite of what I said if you actually read it. Like be fr, did you ACTUALLY read the rest of the text where I explain based on current profiles Classic holds every current advantage and thus would win?
I thought you were better and i regret ever calling you a good debater as i more than once did.
Not that I particularly care what others think of me on a debating website of all places, but you're retracting a stance there that has nothing to do with my debating, but rather because you don't like the fact I'm calling you out on outright misinterpreting an obvious vote and filing it wrong, among other stuff as of late.
Nothing's actually changed. What I've said here doesn't effect whether I'm a good or bad debater, the fact you think it does tells me a wee bit to much about how you go about things, but that's completely irrelevant to this thread, what you've been as of late, and whether or not I consider something notable enough to mention to a mod to mayhaps get it reviewed.
Because of what i said like twice, including right after this one: What the guidebooks say is observable for both OG and REmakes' Leon
No, it isn't actually. OG Leon fights a lot more nimble and dangerous foes that were simply cut from the Remake.
You can not observe Leon in Remake fighting and hitting the same things, because those things no longer exist. Classic simply has more feats within the same incident.

Also based on what? Remake is stated to have high marks, but nothing beyond what's normal, the fact he simply has marks instead of like the best or some shit means he was still within standard practices and rankings.
Classic is noted to be "far beyond" an ordinary cop. The second on paper implicates a more impressive resume even if marginally.
and for other reasons that get guidebook statements not immediatelly approved just for the sake of being guidebooks' material
Not gonna fly. Why is that guidebook scan invalid? Disprove its validity and get it removed if you don't like it.
Yes but if you see that someone is more or less as good of a marksman as you and you have a scenario full of covers, why would you wanna discover if you have a physical strength advantage by likely very dangerously approaching?
Because they're not gonna hit the other and will sooner or later run out of the very limited ammo they have and thus be forced to approach?
Leon (OG or REmakes') knows that the gun each other has at hand can be used at a close range also,
Yeah, so being the good cops they are, will likely attempt to disarm the other?
so it does not seem tactical to attempt this and the result will be visible only LSwise due to the AP diff being negligible
They really do not have a choice. They won't be hitting the other if they play keep away, and if they keep trying, they'll run out of ammo eventually.
 
Will disregard completely you talking about "sus" behaviour because i get really mad with false accusations and am still waiting for your RVRT post you said would happen in the other thread, to unfortunately waste mods' time. I disapprove your language towards me and that is why i respond you in the same level you adress me in. Now back to the matter at hand, as wrongly counting a vote generates no consequence...

No, it isn't actually. OG Leon fights a lot more nimble and dangerous foes that were simply cut from the Remake.
You can not observe Leon in Remake fighting and hitting the same things, because those things no longer exist. Classic simply has more feats within the same incident.

Also based on what? Remake is stated to have high marks, but nothing beyond what's normal, the fact he simply has marks instead of like the best or some shit means he was still within standard practices and rankings.
Classic is noted to be "far beyond" an ordinary cop. The second on paper implicates a more impressive resume even if marginally.
"Far beyond" is not a precise measuring of anything, and i speak of guidebooks because they tend to amplificate stuff, sometimes.
And while this "far beyond" is stated out of the verse and comprovable for both inside the verse, in-verse statements about how was his test results in the cop training are a REmakes' Leon only.
I once again say that this is not to say that REmakes' has a good advantage, just enough of a dent because in the rest applicable to ranged combat they're equals

Because they're not gonna hit the other and will sooner or later run out of the very limited ammo they have and thus be forced to approach?
Our discussion orbitated for a huge while on how one has a dent over the other in quality of marksmanship, so assuming they will run out of ammo (specially having their favored weapon with lots of it) doesn't seem to me as the most likely scenario

Yeah, so being the good cops they are, will likely attempt to disarm the other?
They have lots of ammo and Dust 2 is composed of several spaces with large gaps between the covers AFAIS, there is no scenario where you can safely assume it is a good idea to attempt physical assault without the risk of getting shot (with equal combat speed, it is not assumable one of them could safely try reacting to the bullets either)

They really do not have a choice. They won't be hitting the other if they play keep away, and if they keep trying, they'll run out of ammo eventually.
Once more: we discuss which one of them has a dent over the other in quality of marksmanship, so not a likely scenario
 
Will disregard completely you talking about "sus" behaviour because i get really mad with false accusations and am still waiting for your RVRT post you said would happen in the other thread, to unfortunately waste mods' time.
Dog I already notified some mods, I don't need to take it to RVRT to make a report when I can make a DM instead 🗿
Nothing said is false if you verbatim say it yourself anyway, like I don't think you quite understand what a "false" accusation is, can't be false I you say it yourself, no?
I disapprove your language towards me and that is why i respond you in the same level you adress me in. Now back to the matter at hand, as wrongly counting a vote generates no consequence...
Did you know that deliberately responding back in the same manner you perceive something as wrong is noted in the forum's guidelines as rule breaking because you're willfully exacerbating what you think is a issue?

Actually, wrongfully counting a vote does generate a consequence, it gives a vote to the wrong ******* character, and if miscounted can skew the actual end results and make one the winner when they shouldn't have been, leading to the wrong results being added to the profiles.
"Far beyond" is not a precise measuring of anything, and i speak of guidebooks because they tend to amplificate stuff, sometimes.
It is, it means he's literally far greater than what is standard protocol. Your attempts to somehow invalidate the obvious ain't gonna fly. The statement exists, is accepted, you don't get to argue it.

You don't get to speak of guidebooks either if you do not like it, go get it removed.
As it stands, it's on the profile. You use it as it's written, or you make a CRT to change it.
And while this "far beyond" is stated out of the verse
Which makes it a statement written from a omniscient point of view speaking in a complete sense instead of Marvin who's literally just some random cop.
and comprovable for both inside the verse,
No it isn't. Classic Leon literally has more feats. You can't prove anything beyond both are above average, not that the degree in which they are, are the sane; you can't vibe scale them the same when one has far more going for them + the better statement.
in-verse statements about how was his test results in the cop training are a REmakes' Leon only.
Yes, and? It's an inferior statement.
High marks on a standardized test score is still within range of an ordinary cop, it's literally what defines an ordinary cop.
Classic is beyond what's possible for an ordinary cop.
One statement is within range and noted by fallible character. The other is noted wog and beyond that range.
I once again say that this is not to say that REmakes' has a good advantage, just enough of a dent because in the rest applicable to ranged combat they're equals
They aren't actually, classic has the stronger guns and more experience fighting nimble and agile targets.
Our discussion orbitated for a huge while on how one has a dent over the other in quality of marksmanship, so assuming they will run out of ammo (specially having their favored weapon with lots of it) doesn't seem to me as the most likely scenario
Good for you? I'm not the person you were arguing with? I'm making my own arguments.
Classic has a better statement.
Classic has more experience fighting quicker and agile targets.
Classic's weapons are also just straight up stronger due to calcs atm.
And whether you like it or not, both are fast enough to where at range neither of their marksmanship is good enough to tag the other unless they just sit on their ass and let themselves get hit, which obviously, they won't. It doesn't matter if "they have a lot of ammo", a lot isn't infinite, and in a situation where they will never successfully hit the other person it doesn't matter how much ammo they have, it's going to be wasted either trying to hit them till they run out, or they use that above average intelligence and go "damn this shit is not working" and try to engage in a manner that would enable hitting.
They have lots of ammo and Dust 2 is composed of several spaces with large gaps between the covers AFAIS, there is no scenario where you can safely assume it is a good idea to attempt physical assault without the risk of getting shot (with equal combat speed, it is not assumable one of them could safely try reacting to the bullets either)
Yes I can, how about the situation they just sat there for 20 minutes wasting ammo and neither has hit the other yet?
How about at that point they'd have a grasp on the other's speed and understand they're literally comparable.
How about they're trained cops and know guns have ammo so they might even force the other to run out of ammo first before engaging which cycles back to the point above?
It IS assumable they can react to bullets? That's literally where their speed comes from, especially at a distance, it'd be one thing if they were shot at like 1m distance, but you want them to have a whole firefight, they're going to burn through their munitions, and fast. And then that's it, they can't hit each other, like they run out of ammo, and then what? They just stay away from each other forever so you have an excuse to say Classic wouldn't dog REmake currently?
Once more: we discuss which one of them has a dent over the other in quality of marksmanship, so not a likely scenario
And I'm disagreeing with that.
Classic has the better statement.
Classic has the better feats.
And it ultimately doesn't matter because neither are good enough to tag the other at a distance.
 
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