Minecraft discussion thread

[Breadbear83]

I previously tried to argue for using diamond for our explosion calcs, but it was rejected without a reason given other than "I'm not giving you Low 7-C Creepers.", despite me being recommended to do so by a staff member, so uh, idk man

That's really what happened? Fr?

There's still the ender dragon one using diamonds while the other explosions calc being based on using bassalt with rock pulverition, that's an inconsistency in calc methods

I thought their argument would be that the blast resistances of diamond and cobblestone is the same (6 blast resistance) and so making it so materials in Minecraft may not have the same durability as their real life counterparts, and that's why rock desintegration is being used as it's the standard

I thought about using dripstone as a rock durability material instead, it having 1.0 blast resistance, much lower than bassalt 4.2, this may mean more blocks being desintegrated (or at the very least furnaces that have 3.5 blast resistances, literally made of only cobblestone blocks, undiscutably rock durability)

But as I'm far from home and won't get to my computer in weeks, I cannot test that myself yet

 

[IDK3465]

That's really what happened? Fr?

There's still the ender dragon one using diamonds while the other explosions calc being based on using bassalt with rock pulverition, that's an inconsistency in calc methods

I thought their argument would be that the blast resistances of diamond and cobblestone is the same (6 blast resistance) and so making it so materials in Minecraft may not have the same durability as their real life counterparts, and that's why rock desintegration is being used as it's the standard

I thought about using dripstone as a rock durability material instead, it having 1.0 blast resistance, much lower than bassalt 4.2, this may mean more blocks being desintegrated (or at the very least furnaces that have 3.5 blast resistances, literally made of only cobblestone blocks, undiscutably rock durability)

But as I'm far from home and won't get to my computer in weeks, I cannot test that myself yet

I think that no matter what material we choose, there’s always bound to be some level of inconsistency, as materials in video games rarely, if ever, match the durability of their real-life counterparts, which leads to situations where the potency of an attack can vary to absurd amounts, in the case of the Creeper, from like 8-C to Low 7-C
I'm pretty sure the most common assumption on-site is to just take the result with the highest value, assuming all the different materials count as valid feats (barring outliers, of course). But, considering how the only characters that would scale to Creeper explosions would be those comparable or stronger than the Iron Golems, which obviously no ordinary current tier 8 mob should be comparable to, I guess it's more complicated than just whether it's consistent with the scaling?

 

[Breadbear83]

I think that no matter what material we choose, there’s always bound to be some level of inconsistency, as materials in video games rarely, if ever, match the durability of their real-life counterparts, which leads to situations where the potency of an attack can vary to absurd amounts, in the case of the Creeper, from like 8-C to Low 7-C
I'm pretty sure the most common assumption on-site is to just take the result with the highest value, assuming all the different materials count as valid feats (barring outliers, of course). But, considering how the only characters that would scale to Creeper explosions would be those comparable or stronger than the Iron Golems, which obviously no ordinary current tier 8 mob should be comparable to, I guess it's more complicated than just whether it's consistent with the scaling?

I still do believe using rock desintegration value would at least be excused because using a lower durability material (for example, iron has actually a lower desintegration than rocks of 90 joules per cm³, even if it has 20 joules per cm³, fragmentation, and has higher blast resistance so less blocks broken per explosion) with also higher blast resistance would have even less AP than rock desintegration on bassalt (so it's not just possibly being higher), as rock is the standard material for explosion feats in the wiki, anything below that it's lowballing too much just for the sake of some vague "consistency" or anything else on the verse, that rock desintegration is pretty much a midball on explosion feats, both in Minecraft and in general verses, and shouldn't be low-balled more

So if we're to use rock desintegration just for that or some other reason, furnaces or dripstone could at least be a little higher if more of those blocks are destroyed with explosions

Using bassalt for rock desintegration already follows the logic of using a lower blast resistance blocks that realistically would have rock durability, as bassalt has 4.2 blast resistance while cobblestone and stone are 6 blast resistance

 

[IDK3465]

Ok, so, there appears to be some contradictory information regarding whether or not Potions of Decay are available in Bedrock survival, and I have been trying to figure out who's correct for the past 30 minutes, but I still have no clue on the matter, so I'm reaching out in case any of you guys know.

Looking online, a lot of people claim that there's a rare chance for Witch Huts in Bedrock edition to spawn with a cauldron containing Decay Potions, and our Steve profile seems to mirror this, but looking at the current Minecraft Wiki, it claims that Decay Potions are only obtainable in creative and do not spawn in Witch Huts. HOWEVER, the chances for each type of potion to spawn currently have no source to back it up, and looking at an earlier version, we can see it USED to mention Decay Potions spawning in Witch Huts, so now I'm just confused on if this whole thing's just a hoax or it got removed, or it never was in the game in the first place, cause there seems to be like, no consensus and I'm HAVING a MENTAL BREAKDOWN over the F*CKING DECAY POTION CAUSE NOBODY LIKES TO DO THEIR DUGILIGENCE WHEN SITING THEIR SOURCES-

Whatever, you can still cause the Wither effect in survival via suspicious stews or via tipped arrows from Fletcher trades anyway, so who cares.

 

[IDK3465]

I just realized something
Shouldn't Creepers have lightning-level heat resistance due to being able to absorb it while in mid-air directly next to clouds, or am I stupid?

 

[EnderLord8]

Wither storm vs My hero Academia (0-0-0)

The storm is mysteriously transported to a small island near Japan, and in 8 hours she will arrive in Japan to devastate the country. Wither storm in 5-C key, It is accompanied by smaller storms. My Hero Academia Characters varies 8-A to High 6-A Speed is equalized My Hero Academia...

vsbattles.com

 

[EnderLord8]

I just noticed that the Wither Storm profile must be missing a few things like large size, resistance to fire/temperature manipulation by scaling with the standard wither, explosion manipulation by being able to spit explosive skulls like the wither, and type 7 and 8 immortality (via Command Block, mabe).

 

[IDK3465]

I just noticed that the Wither Storm profile must be missing a few things like large size, resistance to fire/temperature manipulation by scaling with the standard wither, explosion manipulation by being able to spit explosive skulls like the wither, and type 7 and 8 immortality (via Command Block, mabe).

Also, since the Command block got upgraded to full-on High 3-A, it’s 5-C rating should probably be removed

(Also, there’s actually some evidence that, as the Wither Storm was absorbing matter, it was increasingly gaining more and more control over its own code, hence why Igor’s initial plan of shutting it down with the potion didn’t work, so it should also get adaptation and maybe even arguably the abilities of the Command Block itself at its peak)

 

[IDK3465]

Anyway, can you guys help me out over here?

How Should I Go About Evaluating This Starry Sky Feat?

Ok, so in Minecraft Legends, a Corrupted Beacon is used to blot out the Sun and keep the Overworld in eternal night. However, we later see that it wasn't simply turning the Sun off, but single-handedly holding back the entire day-night cycle, including the Moon and stars. Now, my initial...

vsbattles.com

 

[IDK3465]

Support for Subsonic travel speed, LS for some other mobs (bosses can probably scale), and the crazy MFTL tier 5-4 feat from Legends

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:IDK3465/Minecraft:_RANDOM_BULLSH*T_GO!!!!

 

[EnderLord8]

Support for Subsonic travel speed, LS for some other mobs (bosses can probably scale), and the crazy MFTL tier 5-4 feat from Legends

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:IDK3465/Minecraft:_RANDOM_BULLSH*T_GO!!!!

And who would climb to achieve the feat of tier 5-4 and MFTL? Or is that just a feat for the corrupted beacon?

 

[IDK3465]

And who would climb to achieve the feat of tier 5-4 and MFTL? Or is that just a feat for the corrupted beacon?

The Beacon is literally a weapon you can get in Dungeons and is directly empowered by the Orb of Dominance/the Heart of Ender, who is the final boss of the game, where it summons replicas of the Beacon to attack you

As for the MFTL speed, at best, John Dungeons might downscale HEAVILY from it as the beam it fires does take a couple of frames to travel, but it could easily end up being just attack speed

 

[IDK3465]

Hey, to anyone here who has beaten Dungeons, can you please do me a solid and record some footage of the player walking and dodgerolling next to the Heart of Ender's lasers w/o speed amps? Thanks :] (no, I'm not calc stacking, I'm just planning on doing a calc treating the beams as SoL due to evidence pointing towards regular beacon lasers being real light)

 

[IDK3465]

This got accepted, so while base John Dungeons doesn't scale to the full MFTL attack speed of the beam, they now at least have Sub-Rel speed due to it still being light

 

[IDK3465]

Feats 1, 2, and 3 got accepted, I'm currently trying to confirm with Dale if he changed his mind from the last LS calc on the size of the mace, as well as giving him more context for the 4th feat, so that he can properly evaluate it (personally I think it should be Low 5-B, likely 4-B given the vagueness of the cosmology, but that's just my view)

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Feats 1, 2, and 3 got accepted, I'm currently trying to confirm with Dale if he changed his mind from the last LS calc on the size of the mace, as well as giving him more context for the 4th feat, so that he can properly evaluate it (personally I think it should be Low 5-B, likely 4-B given the vagueness of the cosmology, but that's just my view)

Well John Terraria maybe is in trouble

 

[IDK3465]

Well John Terraria maybe is in trouble

Tbf, I'm pretty sure there's evidence for Low 2-C Terrarian, but given how the profiles are now and how John Dungeons has soul absorption and stat amps, yeah, Terrarian might legitimately be screwed against JD

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Tbf, I'm pretty sure there's evidence for Low 2-C Terrarian, but given how the profiles are now and how John Dungeons has soul absorption and stat amps, yeah, Terrarian might legitimately be screwed against JD

So the dude who put Steve as Sukuna was right, he will win after a long battle

 

[IDK3465]

So the dude who put Steve as Sukuna was right, he will win after a long battle

Well, only if we're talking about composite Steve/Player, but given his immortality and abilities, he might unironically win
Now that I think about it, it's kinda weird how nobody mentions Dungeons or Legends in Terrarian vs Steve discussions, considering how much hax the Heroes have in those games

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Well, only if we're talking about composite Steve/Player, but given his immortality and abilities, he might unironically win
Now that I think about it, it's kinda weird how nobody mentions Dungeons or Legends in Terrarian vs Steve discussions, considering how much hax the Heroes have in those games

Idk, maybe people think Dungeons and Legends are the same as DB manga vs anime

It could be a soft composite

I maybe buy Dungeons, is okey the game?

 

[IDK3465]

Idk, maybe people think Dungeons and Legends are the same as DB manga vs anime

It could be a soft composite

Tbf, they are all technically different characters, but at the end of the day, they all still just serve the role of the blank-face player character. Hell, in Legends, it literally introduces the Player by showing regular Minecraft gameplay, they're not even hiding the fact that they're basically the same dude, just in different situations.

I maybe buy Dungeons, is okey the game?

I only played the arcade version lol
I heard good things about it, though, a lot of people say it's pretty underrated. Legends... not so much

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Tbf, they are all technically different characters, but at the end of the day, they all still just serve the role of the blank-face player character. Hell, in Legends, it literally introduces the Player by showing regular Minecraft gameplay, they're not even hiding the fact that they're basically the same dude, just in different situations.

Huh, so in that case we should use feats from Legends

I only played the arcade version lol
I heard good things about it, though, a lot of people say it's pretty underrated.

Cool

Legends... not so much

Like isn’t Good or what?

 

[IDK3465]

Huh, so in that case we should use feats from Legends

Potentially, yeah

Like isn’t Good or what?

More like, the game quickly died out and wasn't all that interesting, just kinda mid

 

[Fargotal]

Well, only if we're talking about composite Steve/Player, but given his immortality and abilities, he might unironically win
Now that I think about it, it's kinda weird how nobody mentions Dungeons or Legends in Terrarian vs Steve discussions, considering how much hax the Heroes have in those games

Most people I've seen who are generally serious about the matchup generally use Dungeons and Legends for Steve since it's otherwise a stomp. Even then, it's typically agreed upon that the Terrarian wins since I've seen people say that the player doesn't scale to the beacon feat, giving the Terrarian a massive strength advantage among a few other advantages. Don't remember the exact argument, but it seems to have been something within the past year or so since I've seen a few people switch sides to the Terrarian winning.

You wouldn't know that they resist and cancel out a ton of each others hax because the profiles are so outdated, and I'm pretty sure there isn't even anything listened for Legends for some reason. You wouldn't even know that the Terrarian is also immortal since the profile doesn't even mention it despite it being known for years. The nerfs are an entirely different thing.

 

[IDK3465]

Most people I've seen who are generally serious about the matchup generally use Dungeons and Legends for Steve since it's otherwise a stomp. Even then, it's typically agreed upon that the Terrarian wins since I've seen people say that the player doesn't scale to the beacon feat, giving the Terrarian a massive strength advantage among a few other advantages. Don't remember the exact argument, but it seems to have been something within the past year or so since I've seen a few people switch sides to the Terrarian winning.

You wouldn't know that they resist and cancel out a ton of each others hax because the profiles are so outdated, and I'm pretty sure there isn't even anything listened for Legends for some reason. You wouldn't even know that the Terrarian is also immortal since the profile doesn't even mention it despite it being known for years. The nerfs are an entirely different thing.

Yeah, I suspected that the Terraria profiles were outdated as f*ck, and it honestly doesn't surprise me that the Terrarian has the hax advantage.
That being said, why don't people think the Player scales to the Beacon? The one in Legends is literally the same one as the one in Dungeons, and was directly empowered by the souls and the Orb of Dominance's power, which have both been consistently shown to possess UES-like properties in Dungeons

 

[Fargotal]

Yeah, I suspected that the Terraria profiles were outdated as f*ck, and it honestly doesn't surprise me that the Terrarian has the hax advantage.
That being said, why don't people think the Player scales to the Beacon? The one in Legends is literally the same one as the one in Dungeons, and was directly empowered by the souls and the Orb of Dominance's power, which have both been consistently shown to possess UES-like properties in Dungeons

Something along the lines of the one in legends essentially being supercharged by the Nether, which is an entire dimension full of souls rather than the orb itself, it is the same one in dungeons but in dungeons it was being powered by a far smaller collection of souls. There was a lot more to it, and I might be getting the gist of it wrong, but the argument was apparently convincing enough to get a decent chunk of people who thought Steve wins to change their stances.

As for the Hax advantage, they cancel a lot of each other's stuff out, but totems, and death barter, better thorns, and some of the artifacts are things that the Terrarian just sort of has to put up with rather than ignoring it like most of the other items and abilities dungeons gives. But both are immortal and I don't think either has any way to actually permanently kill the other, so...

 

[IDK3465]

Something along the lines of the one in legends essentially being supercharged by the Nether, which is an entire dimension full of souls rather than the orb itself, it is the same one in dungeons but in dungeons it was being powered by a far smaller collection of souls. There was a lot more to it, and I might be getting the gist of it wrong, but the argument was apparently convincing enough to get a decent chunk of people who thought Steve wins to change their stances.

As for the Hax advantage, they cancel a lot of each other's stuff out, but totems, and death barter, better thorns, and some of the artifacts are things that the Terrarian just sort of has to put up with rather than ignoring it like most of the other items and abilities dungeons gives. But both are immortal and I don't think either has any way to actually permanently kill the other, so...

Weird, because in my research, there was no indication that the Night Beacon was sourcing its soul energy from the ENTIRE NETHER, the most you can argue for is the portal itself, but even that’s a bit of a stretch given it seemed to act more as a way to stabilize the Beacon rather than as a direct power source for it. As far as I could tell, the only two things that were empowering the Night Beacon were the Orb of Dominance, and whatever residual soul energy was left in its Nether Star from when it was still apart of the Wither, which should mean the one in Dungeons probably scales

 

[IDK3465]

I've been recently thinking about smth
Given just how many abilities and weird quirks Minecraft characters seem to inherently have (like crafting, hammerspace, regen, immortality, etc.), how would you guys feel about the creation of a Player/Builder physiology page so that we don't need to constantly repeat the same bunch of abilities over and over again?

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I've been recently thinking about smth
Given just how many abilities and weird quirks Minecraft characters seem to inherently have (like crafting, hammerspace, regen, immortality, etc.), how would you guys feel about the creation of a Player/Builder physiology page so that we don't need to constantly repeat the same bunch of abilities over and over again?

i dont think we needed that, like how many character could have it actually? like two or 3

Story mode dont have immortality

 

[IDK3465]

i dont think we needed that, like how many character could have it actually? like two or 3

So far, we have Steve, the Dungeons Heroes, Jessie, Ivor, Romeo, and the mfs from Mini-Series that nobody really cares about.
Later on, we could have profiles for the Legends Protag, Guy, other novel characters, the manga protag, etc.

We can also use it to explain stuff like enchanting or commands that also show up frequently

I'd say that's enough to qualify for a dedicated ability profile imo

Story mode dont have immortality

That's fair, but we could also just add a separate tab for folks who do resurrect, like Steve and Guy

 

[IDK3465]

Hollup, I just realised something:
It takes 1 tick or 1/20th of a second for a cubic meter of water to evaporate in the Nether
2575 J/cm^3 * 1000000 cm^2 = 2575000000 joules or 0.6154 Tons of TNT
0.6154/(1/20) = 12.3080 Tons of TNT/s
Now to find power per square meter:
12.3080 / 6 m^2 = 2.0513 Tons of TNT/s*m^2

Steve's surface area is a bit complicated, but it should be quite a bit higher than an irl man's surface area, or 1.9 m^2

2.0513 * 1.9 = 3.8975 Tons of TNT/s (High 8-C)

Holy shit, I might be cooking

 

[IDK3465]

Hollup, I just realised something:
It takes 1 tick or 1/20th of a second for a cubic meter of water to evaporate in the Nether
2575 J/cm^3 * 1000000 cm^2 = 2575000000 joules or 0.6154 Tons of TNT
0.6154/(1/20) = 12.3080 Tons of TNT/s
Now to find power per square meter:
12.3080 / 6 m^2 = 2.0513 Tons of TNT/s*m^2

Steve's surface area is a bit complicated, but it should be quite a bit higher than an irl man's surface area, or 1.9 m^2

2.0513 * 1.9 = 3.8975 Tons of TNT/s (High 8-C)

Holy shit, I might be cooking

Minor correction on this, it doesn't take water a tick to evaporate, it rather doesn't actually show up in-game at all. Instead, the water bucket instantly emits steam particles wherever it's placed, so it actually takes less than a tick to evaporate the water block.
That being said, I'll still use 1/20th of a second as a low-ball due to the steam still taking a tick to appear. Steve already no-sells this anyway, so it's gonna be an "at least" mo matter what

If I get the diamond end of my Creeper explosion calc accepted, and subsequently the 8-B calc for Steve surviving it at a distance, this could legitimately massively upgrade the entire verse (save for like, Silverfish or the Snow Golem, ig)

 

[EnderLord8]

Hollup, I just realised something:
It takes 1 tick or 1/20th of a second for a cubic meter of water to evaporate in the Nether
2575 J/cm^3 * 1000000 cm^2 = 2575000000 joules or 0.6154 Tons of TNT
0.6154/(1/20) = 12.3080 Tons of TNT/s
Now to find power per square meter:
12.3080 / 6 m^2 = 2.0513 Tons of TNT/s*m^2

Steve's surface area is a bit complicated, but it should be quite a bit higher than an irl man's surface area, or 1.9 m^2

2.0513 * 1.9 = 3.8975 Tons of TNT/s (High 8-C)

Holy shit, I might be cooking

"Based on the standard dimensions of a Minecraft player character (Steve), which is 1.8 blocks tall, 0.6 blocks wide, and 0.3 blocks thick, the total surface area can be calculated.

• Total Surface Area: Approximately 5.76 square meters"
  

Look useful, this work?

 

[IDK3465]

"Based on the standard dimensions of a Minecraft player character (Steve), which is 1.8 blocks tall, 0.6 blocks wide, and 0.3 blocks thick, the total surface area can be calculated.

• Total Surface Area: Approximately 5.76 square meters"

Look useful, this work?

Where did you get this info from? If this is legit, it'd bump up the feat to 11.8155 Tons or a bit above baseline 8-B

 

[EnderLord8]

Where did you get this info from? If this is legit, it'd bump up the feat to 11.8155 Tons or a bit above baseline 8-B

I searched on Google because I already knew that people had already calculated Steve's surface area... I think there must even be a calculation here on Wiki that's at least close to that.

 

[IDK3465]

I searched on Google because I already knew that people had already calculated Steve's surface area... I think there must even be a calculation here on Wiki that's at least close to that.

Weird, cause I can't find anything with that value anywhere...

F*ck it, I'll just calculate it myself

Steve's voxels are scaled down from block voxels (0.0625 m) by 0.9375x
0.0625 * 0.9375 = 0.05859375 m per voxel length

Head:
8x8x8 voxels or 0.46875 x 0.46875 x 0.46875 m
Surface area: 1.31836 m^2

Body:
8x4x12 voxels or 0.234375 x 0.46875 x 0.703125 m
Surface area: 1.2085 m^2

Limbs:
4x4x12 voxels each or 0.234375 x 0.234375 x 0.703125 m
Surface area: 0.769043 m^2

Total:
1.31836 + 1.2085 + (4 * 0.769043) = 5.603032 m^2

2.0513 * 5.603032 = 11.4935 Tons of TNT
Bam (I should probably put this into a blog)

 

[EnderLord8]

Total:
1.31836 + 1.2085 + (4 * 0.769043) = 5.603032 m^2

2.0513 * 5.603032 = 11.4935 Tons of TNT
Bam (I should probably put this into a blog)

Close enough

 

[IDK3465]

Give me liberty, give me fire, get my calc accepted by Dalesean, or I retire

 

[IDK3465]

Do the novels give us any more info on what the Wither effect actually does? I ask this because we currently list it as death manip, but the closest thing I could find as to why that's the case is the Mobestiary stating it drains people's "vigor" and adds it to the Wither's own health, and "draining one's health until they're dead."
I'm trying to see if there's anything pointing to this "vigor" it absorbs being soul energy, since that's a pretty major and recurring thing in MC lore, but all I got is that the Wither is constructed from soul sand, no direct statements on if the effect itself absorbs souls to power the Wither.

So, maybe, rather than death manipulation, we just change it to life absorption? Or do we keep the death manip and just slap on life absorb on top of it? Idk man I'm tired

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Do the novels give us any more info on what the Wither effect actually does? I ask this because we currently list it as death manip, but the closest thing I could find as to why that's the case is the Mobestiary stating it drains people's "vigor" and adds it to the Wither's own health, and "draining one's health until they're dead."
I'm trying to see if there's anything pointing to this "vigor" it absorbs being soul energy, since that's a pretty major and recurring thing in MC lore, but all I got is that the Wither is constructed from soul sand, no direct statements on if the effect itself absorbs souls to power the Wither.

So, maybe, rather than death manipulation, we just change it to life absorption? Or do we keep the death manip and just slap on life absorb on top of it? Idk man I'm tired

From the Mountain, it is refer as lifeforce draining instead of Death hax

Skeletons. Somewhere close.

I’d nearly stuck coal to stick when the first one clacked around the corner. I could barely see it. Those black bones. A wither skeleton!

Before I could reach for my sword or my shield, I felt it.

A cut from a stone sword that shouldn’t have been more than a minor wound. But the feeling. The drain! Muscles, bones, organs. Like air stolen from lungs, it felt like my very life force was being pulled away. Aching, dazed. Instantly exhausted, as if I was suddenly one hundred years old.

This was what Summer had tried to warn me against. This was wither!

Staggering back, turning to run, I panted out onto the catwalk. Bow in hand, I drew for a shaky shot.

I thought I did, but clearly this world had other plans.

Just as I managed to get close enough to land a strike, another sword jabbed me from behind.

Pain, drain.

Wither!

No time to eat, no time for looking back.