Akatsukiverse: General Discussion Thread

[FrenzyUND]

Wow I had not seen this thread, awesome.

What I think we should do before updating the profiles:

- - - Explosion upgrade, Megumin can easily be put to mountain level with current feats ( 2 feats of straight up blowing a mountain ), though at the very very least it should be Low 7-B:

I think the Sacred Create Water used on the Dullahan should be upgraded, it doesn't seem all the damage it did was taken into consideration, or really just how much water it was summoned, it covered Dust's entire field of vision, it broke through the city walls, washed away the buildings around it doing catastrophic damage:

From there we can scale other characters overall tier.

- - - Speed, there's no way the verse should stay at subsonic levels. Gadalkand reacting to and deflecting a shotgun shell from up close distance:



LN:

Limits released Six blitzing Gadalkand to oblivion:

Kazuma ( before EOS ) was already a match for supersonic Six ( who main weapons are normal guns, which well shoot supersonic bullets ):

Lilith is so fast with her tentacles she can casually react to and deflect countless bullets coming at her from a World War 3 battlefield:

Viper with her time manipulation deflected rifle/machine gun fire coming from hundreds of super soldiers shooting her at the same time:

Other characters can keep up with her despite her time manipulation fighting style that allows her to be that fast, such as Six, and other characters such as the Supreme Leaders Lilith and Belial are even faster.

Lilith reacts to an explosion blowing up a building while she was inside it, and protects herself with her tentacles from the explosion which should be a hypersonic feat at the very least:

Six who can follow Viper's fighting normally, and even Lilith's, admits he could barely react to Kisaragi's Supreme Leader Belial blitzing Grimm, saying no wonder she's the best at Kisaragi, implying she's faster than Lilith and Viper:

There're many other speed feats and scaling from Combatants, but I'll leave it at that for now.

Some from Konosuba:

EOS Kazuma with buffs from Eris and Aqua ( buffs that multiply his stats several times ) is blitzed by the Demon King:

But even the DK claims that normally nobody is fast enough to be able to react to lightning magic without a skill after Kazuma dodges it with his auto-evasion skill:

And despite that, Dust dodges a surprise Lightning spell:

Vanir also dodges lightning magic fired by Wiz:

Vanir also blitz Kazuma with a kick:

 

[FrenzyUND]

Anyway, not throwing shade at "TheShape03" who wrote great posts here, but I don't think we should go into Relativistic stuff as I think that it is clearly not the intention of the author to have the characters be this fast and therefore the "light" magic supposed to be as fast as real light. In fact, with Light of Saber, it entirely scales to the user's speed because it basically creates a sword out of plasma on the user's hand, and then the user swings their arm covered by the sword.

The best I could see is claiming Lightning magic is supposed to be as fast as real Lightning since this is sort of hinted at as the previous post shows, and it acts as a real lightning bolt with electricity properties:

And Dust, who has the feat of dodging lightning magic, which should be so fast nobody can dodge according to the DK, also has a feat of thrusting his spear at "lightning speed":

Yet, I wouldn't like any exaggeration and would want us to stay true to the facts and real level of the verse instead of trying to go crazy with stuff clearly not meant by the author, like some other fans do with other verses.

For me it is clear that while yeah, lightning magic is clearly meant to be extremely fast, analogue to how lightning is so fast in our world, and obviously much faster than say guns/bullets which are very common in the Akatsukiverse, but the author, in my opinion, clearly doesn't see the characters to be moving in the speed of lightining, to be fighting in such speed, to have such speed, and clearly and consistently he writes the character's speed feats to be at supersonic, bullet-dodging speed and the such, with the higher tiers scaling above it, to hypersonic+ levels, but clearly not meant to be moving like bolts of lights.

The Dust feat of thrusting his spear with "lightning speed" for me it is clearly a hyperbole, but make what you want out of it, I just ask that we stay true to the author's intentions and how the characters are portrayed instead of trying to hype them up to a tier they are not.

 

[TheShape03]

Explosion upgrade, Megumin can easily be put to mountain level with current feats ( 2 feats of straight up blowing a mountain ), though at the very very least it should be Low 7-B

I think Megumin should be Low 7-B starting in Volume 6, considering she reduces a mountain to pebbles, which even with small mountains requires this amount of energy.

Next we have to find out where feat 7-B that Megumin does in this short story (pulverizing a mountain) takes place.

As for the image, I'm pretty sure anime feats aren't allowed; it's currently accepted as a separate continuity. The current 9-B feat managed to ignore that rule simply because the verse is so abandoned that no one paid attention to it when the update thread was made.

Also, speaking of the anime, Megumin should be Tier 6 because of the explosion at the end of the movie (I'll calculate that soon).

P.S.: From what I understand, scaling things that aren't fully translated isn't allowed here, which means that while we can't scale the web novel here, the anime can (I think it has an official English dub), so we can get profiles for the anime.

I think the Sacred Create Water used on the Dullahan should be upgraded, it doesn't seem all the damage it did was taken into consideration, or really just how much water it was summoned, it covered Dust's entire field of vision, it broke through the city walls, washed away the buildings around it doing catastrophic damage:

I have a calculation of that feat that gives a result between 8-A and 7-C, but I don't know if it's correct. I'll upload it later, but I'm not very confident in the method I used.

there's no way the verse should stay at subsonic levels. Gadalkand reacting to and deflecting a shotgun shell from up close distance

Yeah, about that... I have bad news.

Lilith is so fast with her tentacles she can casually react to and deflect countless bullets coming at her from a World War 3 battlefield:

I'm pretty sure that speed only applies to her tentacles.

I have to admit that I only read up to Volume 5 of Sentouin, a long time ago, so I can't answer the rest of the things. Since I'm currently doing a refresher on the Akatsukiverse, when I finish rereading Konosuba, I'll start with Sentouin and read the volumes I missed.

Vanir also dodges lightning magic fired by Wiz:

Hmm, I don't remember that. Does it take place in the Dust spin-off? It's the only Konosuba thing I've never read (Yet).

 

[TheShape03]

Anyway, not throwing shade at "TheShape03" who wrote great posts here, but I don't think we should go into Relativistic stuff as I think that it is clearly not the intention of the author to have the characters be this fast and therefore the "light" magic supposed to be as fast as real light. In fact, with Light of Saber, it entirely scales to the user's speed because it basically creates a sword out of plasma on the user's hand, and then the user swings their arm covered by the sword.

I don't think the author bothers to come up with a consistent speed limit for his characters.

Anyway, I wasn't thinking of pursuing the speed of light issue any further. The standards here are too strict, so I'm not planning on proposing that just yet.

However, if you want to know what I think, it's clear that magical light is real light, since it behaves like it (causing temporary blindness and reflecting off reflective materials), which shows that the author actually gave it the behavior of natural light.

Light of Saber could be an exception, since while it's composed of light, I seem to recall it bends in the air, which is a disqualification for Light Speed.

The best I could see is claiming Lightning magic is supposed to be as fast as real Lightning since this is sort of hinted at as the previous post shows, and it acts as a real lightning bolt with electricity properties:

I mean, yes. However, its speed doesn't necessarily have to be limited to the speed of real lightning. Why can't it be faster? The same could be argued for bullets; nothing in fiction is limited to its real-life counterpart, and they can be faster if the story demonstrates it.

I think the real problem with the LS speed levels is that most of the feats look like aim dodging, except for when Beldia reacts to the Turn Undead light before being hit but chooses not to dodge it (Kazuma also reacts to this). I could also argue that Aqua deflecting the Vanir Death Ray for the first time isn't aim dodging because she didn't know what it was, so she wouldn't recognize it as an attack until she saw the laser.

Though like I said, I don't really plan on proposing those levels right now.

 

[FrenzyUND]

Yeah, about that... I have bad news.

Fair enough.

I'm pretty sure that speed only applies to her tentacles.

She's the one controlling the tentacles, they don't move by themselves, which is the reason only she can use those, she's the only one smart enough.

It's the same as having extra arms:

She has the perception to move them fast enough to react to stuff.

Hmm, I don't remember that. Does it take place in the Dust spin-off? It's the only Konosuba thing I've never read (Yet).

Yorimichi 3, one of the chapters is about Vanir and Wiz fighting.

 

[TheShape03]

She has the perception to move them fast enough to react to stuff.

Fair enough. It seems that, aside from Gadalkand's feat, Sentouin has several speed feats worth calculating.

Yorimichi 3, one of the chapters is about Vanir and Wiz fighting.

Oh yeah, I didn't read that one either. I'll check it out later.

 

[MidnightDawn1]

This may sound silly, but would it count as "breaking the fourth wall" for characters to introduce themselves at the beginning of some volumes, or for characters to give previews at the end of some volumes about what will happen in the next volume?

We also have Kazuma as the narrator, which means he knows someone is reading.

I’m not against minor fourth wall breaks as Kazuma constantly laments how “off” his life is from a typical isekai story and calls out people for “raising flags” and also the references with Rezero was Megumin gets called Megumin-Tan similar to Emilia-Tan but I feel that’s more lampshading than actually breaking the fourth wall tbh.

Kazuma being a narrator doesn’t mean as much as that’s just first person writing which is normal for any novel.

 

[TheShape03]

Does anyone know if there's a way to calculate the detonation velocity of the Explosion spell?

I'd like to recalculate this. The user used the detonation velocity of TNT, but didn't explain why.

 

[FrenzyUND]

It's probably impossible to tell, I don't recall anything of the such being described in the LN.

 

[TheShape03]

It's probably impossible to tell, I don't recall anything of the such being described in the LN.

An old version of Megumin's profile said that Explosion Magic is faster than Advanced Magic, do you remember if something like that was ever said?

 

[FrenzyUND]

Nope. It doesn't make sense too as the speed of the advanced spells aren't the same.

 

[MidnightDawn1]

Does anyone know if there's a way to calculate the detonation velocity of the Explosion spell?

I'd like to recalculate this. The user used the detonation velocity of TNT, but didn't explain why.

Wouldn’t the detonation velocity of a nuke make more sense? As Agent 10 when he witnesses Megumin cast explosion likens it to a thermonuclear bomb

 

[TheShape03]

Wouldn’t the detonation velocity of a nuke make more sense? As Agent 10 when he witnesses Megumin cast explosion likens it to a thermonuclear bomb

I was thinking of arguing that magic in general should be MHS+ because Dust (who can dodge Lightning spells) was hit with other types of magic multiple times before he could react. Also because the Demon King was unable to escape Explosion despite being fast enough to blitz Kazuma, who could dodge lightning magic with Emergency Evade/Auto-Evasion.

 

[FrenzyUND]

Wouldn’t the detonation velocity of a nuke make more sense? As Agent 10 when he witnesses Megumin cast explosion likens it to a thermonuclear bomb

To be fair he said "small nuke", not a thermonuke. It was also Agent 22 IIRC, but for sure not Agent 10.

I was thinking of arguing that magic in general should be MHS+ because Dust (who can dodge Lightning spells) was hit with other types of magic multiple times before he could react. Also because the Demon King was unable to escape Explosion despite being fast enough to blitz Kazuma, who could dodge lightning magic with Emergency Evade/Auto-Evasion.

It depends a lot, for instance, a fireball is a spell where the person makes a ball of fire and throws it with their hand, like if throwing a normal ball; Light of Saber is someone making a blade out of plasma that covers their hand, then they swing the arm like a sword to cut stuff with the spell; Inferno summons a massive AOE flame; Lightning Strike summons lightning from the skies; Lightning shoots lightning from the user's hand, Tornado summons a tornado... every spell is very specific.

Another thing to take into consideration was that the DK was limping from a leg injury caused by Kazuma, and when he turned to see Kazuma, it was likely over already, once the spell is chanted, it's already on a critical state and it will go off no matter what ( as demonstrated by Megumin ).

 

[TheShape03]

It depends a lot, for instance, a fireball is a spell where the person makes a ball of fire and throws it with their hand, like if throwing a normal ball; Light of Saber is someone making a blade out of plasma that covers their hand, then they swing the arm like a sword to cut stuff with the spell; Inferno summons a massive AOE flame; Lightning Strike summons lightning from the skies; Lightning shoots lightning from the user's hand, Tornado summons a tornado... every spell is very specific.

I disagree; the fact that the spells are of different types doesn't preclude the possibility of them moving at a similar speed.

Fireball doesn't work that way; the user extends their hand and a ball of fire shoots out.

Arnes smirked, whipping her hand into the air.

“This isn’t going to be pleasant! Fireball!”

As Arnes brought her hand down, a ball of flames emerged from her palm, rocketing toward Zesta.

- Bakuen V2.

While when using Light of Saber, the user makes a movement with their hand to guide the attack sideways, that doesn't necessarily limit the speed the light has when moving forward.

EDIT: However, considering that DK blitzing Kazuma probably isn't useful for scaling him to MHS+ (given that it forces us to assume Emergency Evade was going to activate), I doubt I'll be able to get magic in general to that level unless I can consistently show that other types of magic can hit someone capable of dodging Lightning Magic (like Dust), and as far as I remember, the only part of the Spin-off (which I haven't finished reading yet) where that happens seems to be a joke scene that I doubt can be taken seriously.

 

[TheShape03]

Another thing to take into consideration was that the DK was limping from a leg injury caused by Kazuma

I know, however, the explosion still hit him before he could react and finish his own spell, having an injured leg wouldn't weaken his reactions.

 

[FrenzyUND]

Kazuma had chanted Explosion already and was just waiting for the DK to show up.

 

[TheShape03]

Kazuma had chanted Explosion already and was just waiting for the DK to show up.

That's not what I'm talking about; maybe I didn't explain myself well. The moment Kazuma casts Explosion, the attack not only hits the Demon King before he can react, but he also fails to counterattack despite his attempts to do so.

Anyway, as I said, I don't think I have enough arguments right now to bring all the magic to MHS+. So I think I should forget about Megumin's feat where she clears the sky, considering I don't have a timeframe to apply KE.

 

[TheShape03]

New CRT for the verse

Akatsukiverse (Mainly Konosuba) CRT: Some revisions

(Minor) Mid-Tier Update: Mid-Tiers (Demon King Generals, Buffed Kazuma, Darkness, Wiz, etc.) currently scale at 8-C+, since Darkness scales above Combat Agent Six. The profile doesn't explain why, but in the thread where it was proposed to scale Darkness above Six, it is mentioned that it is...

vsbattles.com

 

[MidnightDawn1]

Season 4 confirmed and Yomirichi 4 coming out this month, hopefully we see some interesting stuff

 

[Bruh]

Any plans to make an Anime version of the verse considering all the good feats thats lying around not being to be use since they are considered non canon

 

[TheShape03]

Any plans to make an Anime version of the verse considering all the good feats thats lying around not being to be use since they are considered non canon

I think it would be a good idea to create profiles for the anime versions.

I don't plan on creating the profiles myself, since I haven't even finished reworking the light novel profiles, but I can definitely help by calculating feats.

 

[ShionAH]

I LOVE KONOSUBA

 

[TheShape03]

Any plans to make an Anime version of the verse considering all the good feats thats lying around not being to be use since they are considered non canon

It seems we have several accepted calculations for the anime version.

• Megumin's explosion in the first season (High 7-C)
• Aqua's Sacred Create Water (8-A)
• Darkness destroys rocks (8-C)
• Giant Toads' GPE and KE (9-B)
• Giant Toads' speed (Peak Human)
• Beldia's speed (Supersonic+)

 

[Bruh]

It seems we have several accepted calculations for the anime version.

• Megumin's explosion in the first season (High 7-C)
• Aqua's Sacred Create Water (8-A)
• Darkness destroys rocks (8-C)
• Giant Toads' GPE and KE (9-B)
• Giant Toads' speed (Peak Human)
• Beldia's speed (Supersonic+)

Dont forget feats in the Ova, movie and Megumin spin off

 

[ShionAH]

Theres a HUGE feat for Megumin at the end of the Movie iirc

 

[TheShape03]

Theres a HUGE feat for Megumin at the end of the Movie iirc

Yes, I want to try to calculate that explosion, but I don't know exactly how much overpressure to use.

 

[ShionAH]

Yes, I want to try to calculate that explosion, but I don't know exactly how much overpressure to use.

Is the anime different enough to warrant a new page tho?

 

[TheShape03]

Is the anime different enough to warrant a new page tho?

Yes, I think so.

The anime tends to omit several things, sometimes even entire chapters of the novel; iirc they also omitted a large part of the battle against the Destroyer. There are several changes in the anime, such as the existence of Arnes's bracelet or the way the group defeats Hans and Sylvia. Additionally, there are some minor changes to the chronology (for example, the exploration of Keele's dungeon occurs earlier in the novel).

Furthermore, the power levels are also completely different. In the anime: there's no scaling with Sentouin, Megumin's explosions tend to be larger and more destructive, there are notable feats that didn't happen in the novel, etc.

 

[Bruh]

Yes, I want to try to calculate that explosion, but I don't know exactly how much overpressure to use.

It was able to push kms of clouds so theres that

 

[ShionAH]

I just finished S3

 

[MidnightDawn1]

Thoughts? Subaru beat Kazuma

 

[MidnightDawn1]

Thoughts? Subaru beat Kazuma

I agree that Subaru would win - eventually. So I don’t mind.

But I don’t get why Kazuma wouldn’t use his mythrill chain or drain touch the moment Beatrice was bound even against Subaru, if them two touch it’s drain touch with no delay

 

[ShionAH]

I agree that Subaru would win - eventually. So I don’t mind.

Eh? I feel like Kazuma would accidentally bypass RBD by using Bind rather than brutally killing a fellow Japanese guy, especially with his Luck

Aqua hard counters Beatrice too

 

[MidnightDawn1]

Eh? I feel like Kazuma would accidentally bypass RBD by using Bind rather than brutally killing a fellow Japanese guy, especially with his Luck

Aqua hard counters Beatrice too

Yeah but it’s a vs battle so obviously there’s gonna be slight OOC, since nobody would really kill anyone in most match ups.

But I saw in the comments apprently, Subaru puts a poison in his teeth molar, so if he’s ever in a situation where he can’t die or won’t be killed, he can just end it. So even if he BFR’s Subaru he would come back.

But that’s why I said he would win - eventually.
Since he can’t truly be killed and ig Aqua can’t dispel RBD or whatever.

 

[ShionAH]

But I saw in the comments apprently, Subaru puts a poison in his teeth molar, so if he’s ever in a situation where he can’t die or won’t be killed, he can just end it. So even if he BFR’s Subaru he would come back

I am still on S2 (2 eps left) so I wouldn’t know that lol

Anyways, its so sad the Konosuba profiles are so outdated rn

 

[MidnightDawn1]

I am still on S2 (2 eps left) so I wouldn’t know that lol

Anyways, its so sad the Konosuba profiles are so outdated rn

The struggle of a dying/ dead verse. Back in 2021 you’d make a CRT and have the changes done on the same day.

Now we genuinely got threads that have been dormant since 025 lmao, crazy Works

 

[ShionAH]

The struggle of a dying/ dead verse.

I would have revived it if I wasn’t burnout from the wiki

 

[FrenzyUND]

Season 4 confirmed and Yomirichi 4 coming out this month, hopefully we see some interesting stuff

Word is that Aqua can regrow limbs with her healing, and Darkness (while controlled by Vanir) can cut the wings of mountain-sized flying monsters with her sword.

Aqua feat is probably 100% legit, but I'd rather read the Darkness one first.

There's also Dust 8, dunno if there's any good feat there though.

 

[ShionAH]

Word is that Aqua can regrow limbs with her healing

Didn't she already have Mid-High feat from the Movie?