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Trinity Seven: some additions to the physiologies

Grabbing_dragon

Grabbing_dragon

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Magus Physiology addition​


Physics Manipulation (Magic is the exact opposite of the elements (principles) that make up the human world, which refer to physical laws, as it outright breaks them by allowing impossible phenomena or beings to exist that normally would never exist under those physical laws)

Maguses would also get resistance to that due to being resistant to magic and not being bound by the physical laws of the world.

God Physiology additions​


Passive Power Modification & Dream Manipulation (A god can erode magic spells merely by existing. Even a spell like the Last Crest, capable of creating a world and trapping everything within an endless dream, can be overwritten by the god’s power, causing the original user to lose command of the dream world, which then falls under the god’s authority)

Passive Limited Dimensional Manipulation (The mere existence of a god is capable of dimensional influence. In this context, “dimensions” refer to higher dimensions. Merely by its presence, it can undo transformations in beings, as shown by how it returned Judecca to her weapon form and Sora to her grimoire form)

Immunity to Fear Manipulation, Empathic Manipulation, Pain Manipulation & Madness Manipulation (All Types; The true nature of a god is fundamentally without any real sentience, will, or consciousness, and not like people, as they simply are a concept itself. Without using a human vessel, the avatars possess the same qualities and manifest in physical form in an extreme way, taking shape through divisions of flesh, blood, organs, and more. Even a mere glimpse of it can send a victim spiraling into madness)

Additions to their Absorption are the absorption of light, Narrative, Space-time, Probability, Power, Dream, illusions and Nonexistence (Nature Types 1 & 2; all aspects, Other; space-time, history, laws, and narrative)
(Gods are life-consuming worlds that devour entire worlds, along with taking everything they eat for themselves, as it is in their nature to devour anything and any world they encounter, regardless of its type. The types of worlds in the verse include light; stories that determine reality; nothingness (both within the cycle of existence and nonexistence, and beyond it); spacetime; possibilities; dreams; and illusions. Additionally, gods can absorb magical power and take it for themselves, stripping the original user of their magic)

Non-Physical Interaction (light, Life Energy, Memories, Willpower, Soul, Mind, Information【Both Types】,Narrative, Space-time, Probability, Dream, illusions and Nonexistence (Nature Types 1 & 2; all aspects, Other; space-time, history, laws, and narrative), Law & Concept【Type 1】)

The last proposal is to add law manipulation to all conceptual manipulation on this page, and also to add law abstraction to conceptual abstraction of gods. It is made clear, without limitation, that laws, rules, and concepts are interchangeable, and having control over concepts is the same as having control over laws and rules.


Agree: Mbpoops, Mr._East_Statement, Reiner04, AyOgUyS, TWILIGHT-OP, Child_of_destiny, ChrisXtrinity, Random-Helper323 (Aside from adding things, incorporeality grants by default), Vietthai96, Theglassman12 (Aside from immunity to pain, fear, and Madness Type 1 and 2, as well as non-physical interaction to probability), Celestial_Pegasus
Neutral:
Disagree:
 
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Added that below. I believe that is enough for this CRT, rather than adding more. I don’t want it to become a crt that takes over 4 weeks to finish.
Grabbing_dragon said:
Additions to their Absorption are the absorption of light, Narrative, Space-time, Probability, Power, Dream, illusions and Nonexistence (Nature Types 1 & 2; all aspects, Other; space-time, history, laws, and narrative)
(Gods are life-consuming worlds that devour entire worlds, along with taking everything they eat for themselves, as it is in their nature to devour anything and any world they encounter, regardless of its type. The types of worlds in the verse include light; stories that determine reality; nothingness (both within the cycle of existence and nonexistence, and beyond it); spacetime; possibilities; dreams; and illusions. Additionally, gods can absorb magical power and take it for themselves, stripping the original user of their magic)

Non-Physical Interaction (light, Life Energy, Memories, Willpower, Soul, Mind, Information【Both Types】,Narrative, Space-time, Probability, Dream, illusions and Nonexistence (Nature Types 1 & 2; all aspects, Other; space-time, history, laws, and narrative), Law & Concept【Type 1】)
Click to expand...
 
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Reiner04 said:
Looks fine
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TWILIGHT-OP said:
Op looks fine at glance, though I'll wait for counter arguments.
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Thanks for the input. I’d like to add two more things.
Biological Absorption
Goddesses can prey upon living beings, reducing them to fragments of magic power. They are greater than their bastard children, who used to prey upon each other in a far and forgotten world, thereby emerging as more powerful "life forms"
Do you agree?
 
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Grabbing_dragon said:
Passive Limited Dimensional Manipulation (The mere existence of a god is capable of dimensional influence. In this context, “dimensions” refer to higher dimensions. Merely by its presence, it can undo transformations in beings, as shown by how it returned Judecca to her weapon form and Sora to her grimoire form)
Click to expand...
had a discussion with the supporters offsite, and as a result of that discussion, we decided to remove Transformation Negation from that scan above. Right now, it is tied to Archive Delete, which is specific to a particular god and cannot be interpreted as an ability that a being categorized as a god would have
 
Why are we assuming immunity to fear hax and the others for them being a concept that makes human vessels? This sounds like a Type 1 Abstract being more than anything and nothing in the scans I'm reading suggests pain manipulation being resisted. Also same with the Madness hax for all types, that's at best type 3, not 1 or 2 with the monster in the end.

Not really seeing probability NPI for this, it's just mentions one instance of possibilities and the rest about space time and nothing about them actually affecting literal probability itself.

The rest looks fine I guess.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Why are we assuming immunity to fear hax and the others for them being a concept that makes human vessels? This sounds like a Type 1 Abstract being more than anything and nothing in the scans I'm reading suggests pain manipulation being resisted. Also same with the Madness hax for all types, that's at best type 3, not 1 or 2 with the monster in the end.
Click to expand...
Immunity and resistance are not the same. Immunity means completely lacking something, while resistance means being able to resist the manipulation of something because you do not lack it.

Do you know what sentience means? If you do, then you would know that lacking sentience means having no consciousness and no ability to experience feelings or sensations (such as fear, pain, etc.).

Madness Type 1 depends on having a body, which a god does not have in its true nature. It simply is a concept. Type 2 requires a mind, which they do not have.

Their avatars, when appearing as monsters without a human vessel, are also non-sentient beings. They do not even possess sanity or rationality in the first place, since they are nothing but ferocious beasts that act instinctively rather than rationally to devour worlds and fight. That is simply what they are.

So there is no sanity to manipulate in them, since they do not possess it in the first place. Therefore, no type of madness would work on them.

So the argument is that they have forms that make them immune to these things. so, the argument is not solely that they are abstract beings.
Theglassman12 said:
Not really seeing probability NPI for this, it's just mentions one instance of possibilities and the rest about space time and nothing about them actually affecting literal probability itself.
Click to expand...
The argument is that space-times are equal to possibilities, and possibilities are equal to worlds. Since gods devour anything defined as a world, they can also consume possibilities, because possibilities are considered worlds as well.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Why are we assuming immunity to fear hax and the others for them being a concept that makes human vessels?
Click to expand...
Gods don't make vessels, but instead they fuse with a (suitable) host. They share the traits of having a flesh & blood body as well as overall thoughts and feelings that prior to such, as concepts, they didn't have before. Essentially not possessing them at all prior. As shown with Harukage's own God fusee (Skade) there.

This goes to the extent where Ceres' own fusee Aryan acknowledges the difference between her instincts as the God they are and the woman herself as entirely different things they aren't used to, having to adapt towards. Meaning they (the vessel and god of which the former's 'personality' is a base) exist as their own mutually exclusive thing despite such. Even other characters catching on towards her making moves that wouldn't usually fit her. (But I have to get those specific scans, this was me just weighing-in early.)
 
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Ruler_Star_Kuma said:
Gods don't make vessels, but instead they fuse with a (suitable) host. They share the traits of having a flesh & blood body as well as overall thoughts and feelings that prior to such, as concepts, they didn't have before. Essentially not possessing them at all prior. As shown with Harukage's own God fusee (Skade) there.

This goes to the extent where Ceres' own fusee Aryan acknowledges the difference between her instincts as the God they are and the woman herself as entirely different things they aren't used to, having to adapt towards. Meaning they (the vessel and god of which the former's 'personality' is a base) exist as their own mutually exclusive thing despite such. Even other characters catching on towards her making moves that wouldn't usually fit her. (But I have to get those specific scans, this was me just weighing-in early.)
Click to expand...
Yep, exactly what he said. Gods themselves don’t have those things and don’t create human vessels. Basically, they use a human vessel, which does have those things, to experience them, while their true form, being purely conceptual, does not possess them. That’s why I wrote “without human vessel” to indicate that the human vessel would not gain immunity to these things, but the god in its true nature would not have them.
 
Do you have any proof that the series treats the lack of sentience as complete lack of a capability to feel fear? You’re stretching the point a bit too much to argue immunity to these abilities that aren’t shown in the scans.

So you’re extrapolating them being abstracts to them being immune to type 1 and 2? You need proof they can resist those types of Madness, not an assumption otherwise we’d slap like 10-15 different resistances to anyone that’s a type 1 abstract just because they “lack” something out of an assumption despite that not being the author’s intent.

Possibilities being worlds or space times doesn’t automatically mean you’re consuming literal probability itself. That’s not how it works. Possibilities can just mean alternate futures or worlds that exist out there, not the literal aspect of affecting chances of things to happen from 33% to 10%.
 
Theglassman12 said:
So you’re extrapolating them being abstracts to them being immune to type 1 and 2?
Click to expand...
Type 1 Madness requires to have a physical state/a manner of conventional biology and Gods in their true forms are incorporeal beings (and it's even accepted as such on the physiology page), fitting the definition within the limitation required to have immunity on the madness manip page.

Limitations: Sufficient Resistance to Biological Manipulation can render this approach useless. Characters with robotic, elemental or Incorporeality forms are naturally immune to this due to lacking conventional biology.
Click to expand...

This is for their true states, not when having vessels as said in the post before.
 
So they have no instance of actually resisting Madness Hax, just an extrapolation. I'm not buying that being put onto the page, that would at best just be type 1 Abstract existence.
 
That doesn’t help your point as it’s got no correlation to them outright resisting the ability. If you’re going to outright list off resistances or immunities to the page, you need actual showings of these things happening rather than just saying that the gods are abstract beings and extrapolating it to resisting X amount of abilities.
 
I think I'll have to agree with Glass on these things. The issues raised are reasonable.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
I think I'll have to agree with Glass on these things. The issues raised are reasonable.
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Would you please explain what was actually reasonable in some of the things he said?
First, he is confusing immunity and resistance. I am not arguing for resistance. For example, he says that an incorporeal being needs proof of resisting Madness Type 1, even though it does not even have a biological in the first place. It is already listed on the Madness page itself that such beings are immune. A reasonable staff member would have said, “There is no need to add it to the page because it is already clearly stated that they are immune by default.” Instead, Glass seems too stuck in his belief.

Then there is Madness Type 2, which depends on having a mind. The gods do not have one in their true form, and that has already been accepted under their NEP. Some of their avatars are mindless as well. They are essentially beings without thoughts to begin with, like a stone, to put it simply.

As for sentience, it was stated that they lack ANY sentience. So I do not see why I need to prove something that is already clearly stated. A reasonable person would understand that they lack those things if it is explicitly said that they lack any form of sentience.
 
Grabbing_dragon said:
Would you please explain what was actually reasonable in some of the things he said?
First, he is confusing immunity and resistance. I am not arguing for resistance. For example, he says that an incorporeal being needs proof of resisting Madness Type 1, even though it does not even have a biological in the first place. It is already listed on the Madness page itself that such beings are immune. A reasonable staff member would have said, “There is no need to add it to the page because it is already clearly stated that they are immune by default.” Instead, Glass seems too stuck in his belief.
Click to expand...
The problem is that if incorporeality already grants an immunity to certain things there's no need to state it. Also, hax has some funny showings in fiction, like death hax that affects inanimate objects.
Grabbing_dragon said:
Then there is Madness Type 2, which depends on having a mind. The gods do not have one in their true form, and that has already been accepted under their NEP. Some of their avatars are mindless as well. They are essentially beings without thoughts to begin with, like a stone, to put it simply.
Click to expand...
No need to mention it then. Acausality usually grants immunity to causality manipulation and fate manipulation but that doesn't get a unique mention.
 
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