Adventure Time Scaling Revision

[MysticBrawler]

The vampire king having a Low 2C AP that he's unable to use in combat doesn't make sense unless you want to classify the feat as environmental destruction.

You know what, now that you mention it I'd say it probably would be just an Environmental Destruction feat as none of the vampires ever displayed any kind of space-time warping abilities, and even when the Vampire Essence turned into a cloud monster it didn't cause any kind reality distorting effects even to those that were sucked into it's body.

 

[Re5yh]

Following

 

[MysticBrawler]

The gauntlet belonged to Billy, Billy defeated the Lich, and she thought the only thing capable of hurting the Lich was the gauntlet. It seems quite obvious that she witnessed the gauntlet hurting the Lich, unless you consider that Billy carries a gauntlet incomparably weaker than himself and she thought it would work despite it not having done anything to the Lich last time.

I don't think Princess Bubblegum witnessed anything as the candy person in the flashback that Billy interacted with was clearly someone else, and seeing how overly cautious she is I also don't think that she would be anywhere near the fight since she knows that she'd just get in the way, so it's more likely that she got second-hand accounts of Billy's battle with The Lich and ended up coming to the wrong conclusion. And even assuming that she did witness Billy's entire fight and saw him harm The Lich with his gauntlet the fact still remains that she was wrong to assume that the Gauntlet would be capable of killing The Lich, and also never accounted for the sweater that she gave Finn being capable of killing The Lich.

 

[Bruh]

Regarding Finn defeating the Lich in their first encounter, PB stated the Lich was weakened and needed to absorb energy from his well of power to regain full strength and he was barely able to do that before Finn stopped him so he defintely wasnt at full power then.

Any of you who have plans on upgrading AT in a future thread, especially the earlier seasons, can i be involve too since i have some idea for feats, cant do calc tho.

 

[Aolphl]

Any of you who have plans on upgrading AT in a future thread, especially the earlier seasons, can i be involve too since i have some idea for feats, cant do calc tho.

DM me

 

[MrSpockVulcan]

I don't think Princess Bubblegum witnessed anything as the candy person in the flashback that Billy interacted with was clearly someone else, and seeing how overly cautious she is I also don't think that she would be anywhere near the fight since she knows that she'd just get in the way, so it's more likely that she got second-hand accounts of Billy's battle with The Lich and ended up coming to the wrong conclusion. And even assuming that she did witness Billy's entire fight and saw him harm The Lich with his gauntlet the fact still remains that she was wrong to assume that the Gauntlet would be capable of killing The Lich, and also never accounted for the sweater that she gave Finn being capable of killing The Lich.

My point is that she didn't consider Finn capable of hurting the Lich, which implies that Finn only destroyed him because of his weakness to the "power of love."

 

[MrSpockVulcan]

You know what, now that you mention it I'd say it probably would be just an Environmental Destruction feat as none of the vampires ever displayed any kind of space-time warping abilities, and even when the Vampire Essence turned into a cloud monster it didn't cause any kind reality distorting effects even to those that were sucked into it's body.

And what would be the justification? Feats considered environmental destruction are based on feats that only affect the environment and not the opponent, feats based on chain reactions, or feats performed over time.

If reality were destroyed, everyone would die; the destruction would be caused by its own power without any chain reaction. The destruction of spacetime is not quantifiable, so the time period is irrelevant.

 

[MysticBrawler]

My point is that she didn't consider Finn capable of hurting the Lich, which implies that Finn only destroyed him because of his weakness to the "power of love."

Again there is nothing stating/implying that The Lich was ever physically weakened by the "power of love" so you can't use that as an argument.

 

[MysticBrawler]

And what would be the justification? Feats considered environmental destruction are based on feats that only affect the environment and not the opponent, feats based on chain reactions, or feats performed over time.

If reality were destroyed, everyone would die; the destruction would be caused by its own power without any chain reaction. The destruction of spacetime is not quantifiable, so the time period is irrelevant.

To be clear regardless of whether or not the Vampire Essence would qualify for Environmental Destruction the fact would still remain that it can't be applied to the Vampire King or Marceline's physicals as 1)there is no UES for that so it doesn't automatically scale to one's physicals, 2)There is nothing stating/implying that Vampire Essence can passively boost one's physicals to that level, 3) None of the vampires have any kind of physical enhancement ability that could boost their physicals to that level, 4) The Vampire Essence itself doesn't show any kind of reality-distorting effects to it's surroundings nor does it physically distort anyone/anything that comes in contact with it, so it's questionable as to what it's method of destroying reality would even be .

So in conclusion there is no basis for using the Vampire Essence to physically scale anyone to Low 2-C.

 

[MysticBrawler]

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[MysticBrawler]

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[Apex_Predator_GX]

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[MysticBrawler]

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[Apex_Predator_GX]

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[MysticBrawler]

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[MysticBrawler]

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[MysticBrawler]

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[MysticBrawler]

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[MysticBrawler]

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[MysticBrawler]

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[MysticBrawler]

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[MysticBrawler]

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[MysticBrawler]

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[MysticBrawler]

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[MysticBrawler]

This is not a bump

 

[MysticBrawler]

Bump. Does Adventure Time still have active supporters?

 

[MysticBrawler]

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[MysticBrawler]

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[MysticBrawler]

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[MysticBrawler]

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[RaikiKurohane99]

Can someone please summarize the arguments and counters from both sides in one post?

 

[MrSpockVulcan]

Can someone please summarize the arguments and counters from both sides in one post?

Basically, OP said that the Lich and Hunson should be downgraded to 5A because the 2A feat isn't valid and the Low 2C feat isn't applicable in combat and doesn't scale to the physicals. The outcome was as follows:

Aolphl and I agreed that the 2A feat isn't valid.

Aolphl and I disagreed about the Low 2C feat not being applicable in combat. OP argued that we don't see the characters causing that level of destruction and that it wouldn't scale to the characters' physical stats. I and Aolphl argued that the first point doesn't matter because the princess is a reliable source and that it would scale to the physical stats because of the fights between Marceline, the Vampire King, and Hunson.

Another point debated and brought up by OP was Finn from the early seasons injuring Hunson and the Lich. Aolphl and I argued that the first is an outlier and the second is just the Lich having a specific weakness to the "power of love".

 

[MysticBrawler]

Can someone please summarize the arguments and counters from both sides in one post?

Ok here's the main contention against my proposed revision:
1)Coconteppi's powers and physicals should just be "At Least 5-A" via upscaling from the Elementals

• Argument - Coconteppi is stated to be the universe's source of magic and there are other types of magic that are shown to be universal such as Ice King's Crown which was able to sustain Fionna's world.
• Counterargument- Magic is not a UES so there is no reason to assume that this scales to their physicals and it's been shown throughout the entire series that the AP of one's magic only scales to what one is shown to be capable of outputting so the same should be true for Coconteppi as well

2)Hunson Abadeer shouldn't scale to his powers due to being harmed by non 2-A beings(i.e. him getting cut open by Season 2 Finn using a random sword he picked up from a graveyard)

• Argument - This is just P.I.S as Hunson Abadeer has scaling to Marceline who in turn scales to the Vampiric Essence which is "At least High 3-A, Possibly Low 2-C."
• Counterargument - The Vampiric Essence can't be used for physical scaling as a) there is nothing stating/implying this passively boosts one's physicals to this level, b) There is no UES so this can't be automatically assumed to scale to one's physicals, c) None of the vampires have any abilities that would allow them to apply this power to their physicals so Marceline(and by extension Hunson) would still physically scale to 5-A.

3) The Lich doesn't physically scale to his powers due to being harmed by none 2-A being such as season 2 Finn(who is just High 7-A and the Gumball Guardian(who is 5-A)

• Argument- Princess Bubblegum stated that the only thing capable of harming The Lich is Billy's Gauntlet so he should upscale from everything technological and magical that was seen up to this point. He is was also stated by Hunson that The Lich is his rival.
• Counterargument - Princess Bubblegum is not a reliabel source here as she has no knowledge regarding the any of the Elements of Magic or Ice King's Crown at this point of the story so the the most he would upscale to is 5-A via the Gumbal Guardians. And Hunson also shouldn't physically scale to his powers so The Lich scaling to the former just further supports the latter scaling to 5-A

 

[MysticBrawler]

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[MysticBrawler]

Ok here's the main contention against my proposed revision:
1)Coconteppi's powers and physicals should just be "At Least 5-A" via upscaling from the Elementals

• Argument - Coconteppi is stated to be the universe's source of magic and there are other types of magic that are shown to be universal such as Ice King's Crown which was able to sustain Fionna's world.
• Counterargument- Magic is not a UES so there is no reason to assume that this scales to their physicals and it's been shown throughout the entire series that the AP of one's magic only scales to what one is shown to be capable of outputting so the same should be true for Coconteppi as well

2)Hunson Abadeer shouldn't scale to his powers due to being harmed by non 2-A beings(i.e. him getting cut open by Season 2 Finn using a random sword he picked up from a graveyard)

• Argument - This is just P.I.S as Hunson Abadeer has scaling to Marceline who in turn scales to the Vampiric Essence which is "At least High 3-A, Possibly Low 2-C."
• Counterargument - The Vampiric Essence can't be used for physical scaling as a) there is nothing stating/implying this passively boosts one's physicals to this level, b) There is no UES so this can't be automatically assumed to scale to one's physicals, c) None of the vampires have any abilities that would allow them to apply this power to their physicals so Marceline(and by extension Hunson) would still physically scale to 5-A.

3) The Lich doesn't physically scale to his powers due to being harmed by none 2-A being such as season 2 Finn(who is just High 7-A and the Gumball Guardian(who is 5-A)

• Argument- Princess Bubblegum stated that the only thing capable of harming The Lich is Billy's Gauntlet so he should upscale from everything technological and magical that was seen up to this point. He is was also stated by Hunson that The Lich is his rival.
• Counterargument - Princess Bubblegum is not a reliabel source here as she has no knowledge regarding the any of the Elements of Magic or Ice King's Crown at this point of the story so the the most he would upscale to is 5-A via the Gumbal Guardians. And Hunson also shouldn't physically scale to his powers so The Lich scaling to the former just further supports the latter scaling to 5-A

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[MysticBrawler]

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[MysticBrawler]

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