Not-so-big revision

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Exorcists are not as strong as Overlords.

They currently are accepted as such though. There’s a reason Lute and V*ggie are 5-B.

 

[Mythic381]

They currently are accepted as such though. There’s a reason Lute and V*ggie are 5-B.

Scaling-wise yes. In terms of who's actually stronger? No.

 

[Mythic381]

The gap between the characters in 5-B is crazy by the way. Lucifer who low-diffed Adam, Adam who low-diffed Alastor (terms of strength), Alastor who scares the shit out of Husk, etc.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Scaling-wise yes. In terms of who's actually stronger? No.

They are considered invincible. Carmilla needed AWs to harm them.

 

[Mythic381]

They are considered invincible. Carmilla needed AWs to harm them.

You do realize we don't even have them being comparable or higher than overlords on Lute's page right? Only casual sinners.

Still on the idea of invincible when they don't have that and never shown to have it.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

You do realize we don't even have them being comparable or higher than overlords on Lute's page right? Only casual sinners.

Because her page sucks lol, I don’t think she has good justification on her profile for her tier at all.

Still on the idea of invincible when they don't have that and never shown to have it.

We agreed they don’t have invulnerability hax in favor of durability last time.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

You do realize we don't even have them being comparable or higher than overlords on Lute's page right? Only casual sinners.

As orange mentioned, her profile justifications suck.
If they were just invulnerable to reg sinners, they wouldn't be 5-B, but 9-B like the sinners. Overlords<Excorcist<Lute<FP Alastor<Adam

 

[Polastournecis]

You do realize you're proving my point? Alastor's AP scales to his Durability and vice versa.

And when did i say i reject your idea? I just wanna say my point still stands for this

No it doesn't? If I was being cut by a knife and leaned back it would only graze me if I leaned back enough. Alastor's case proving that.

It is not just a knife cuz it has a seperate tip point akin to a halberd

Imagine you evade the blade in its first move, but the top spike impaled as you didn't see it coming
Logically, you cannot move anymore because getting stabbed by weapon slows you down massively, so it's impossible to dodge the full swing

This is the most plausible explaination i can think of cuz the visual showed that Alastor ate the full slash and not the graze. Anyway, the animation literally showed the top spike hit

Not being design for something doesn't mean it is incapable of doing it?

No, but the ideal usage for it is stabbing. You can still try slashing with a shard of glass but it won't be effective as using it to stab

Exorcists are not as strong as Overlords.

You said something about it is supposed to have more blood if it was a bisecting strike
But Exorcist's death pointed out a bisecting strikes left way less blood, which is the point

That literally proves nothing?

Yeah, i just put them in for the sake of illustration

 

[Mythic381]

And when did i say i reject your idea? I just wanna say my point still stands for this

I mean the case that a character has enough durability to withstand force of an attack that stomped him
You do realize Dura doesn't always scale to AP?

It is not just a knife cuz it has a seperate tip point akin to a halberd

Never said it was a knife.

magine you evade the blade in its first move, but the top spike impaled as you didn't see it coming
Logically, you cannot move anymore because getting stabbed by weapon slows you down massively, so it's impossible to dodge the full swing

No, but the ideal usage for it is stabbing. You can still try slashing with a shard of glass but it won't be effective as using it to stab

Except in this case it literally does not pierce you. It just slashes.

You said something about it is supposed to have more blood if it was a bisecting strike

You're literally cutting someone in half.

But Exorcist's death pointed out a bisecting strikes left way less blood, which is the point

No???

 

[Polastournecis]

Never said it was a knife.

But you take an example with a knife, and it is just mismatched

Except in this case it literally does not pierce you. It just slashes.

Alastor's blood was stained on the top of the spike as in the animation, indicating it is def not a slash

There is a reason for that attack to be vertical.
The spike was moving forward on the vector way, matching Alastor's dodged position.

You're literally cutting someone in half.

No???

 

[Mythic381]

But you take an example with a knife, and it is just mismatched

It really isn't. You can use both a knife and sword to slash and pierce.

Alastor's blood was stained on the top of the spike as in the animation, indicating it is def not a slash

How exactly is that not possible with a slash?

There is a reason for that attack to be vertical.

The movement doesn't concern much.

The spike was moving forward on the vector way, matching Alastor's dodged position.

Yes, and it moved in a direction that it would slash him, with him leaning back enough not to get hit further.

My man, in what world would someone being slashed drop more blood than a person getting sliced in half?

 

[Polastournecis]

It really isn't. You can use both a knife and sword to slash and pierce.

Yeah, but you cannot slash while using it to pierce at the same time

How exactly is that not possible with a slash?

If that was a slash, the blood would be mostly around either edges, which is not the case here

The movement doesn't concern much.

Yes, and it moved in a direction that it would slash him, with him leaning back enough not to get hit further.

The thing is, he didn't see it coming. The pic you sent only showed that he dodged the swing, but in turn, he moved into an ideal position for that spike to strike

My man, in what world would someone being slashed drop more blood than a person getting sliced in half?

This show (I mean the blood on the weapon)

 

[Mythic381]

Yeah, but you cannot slash while using it to pierce at the same time

Which literally disproves your point...?

If that was a slash, the blood would be mostly around either edges, which is not the case here

No? It's 100% dependent on what side you used to slash with.

The thing is, he didn't see it coming. The pic you sent only showed that he dodged the swing, but in turn, he moved into an ideal position for that spike to strike

He did though? He literally reacted to it and leaned back in time.

This show (I mean the blood on the weapon)

Okay? That's just based on how fast the weapon moved so the blood didn't fall on it.

 

[Polastournecis]

Which literally disproves your point...?

Dude, i meant a knife🫩
Adam used a double side halberd-guitar axe

No? It's 100% dependent on what side you used to slash with.

Then, why tf is it the top?

He did though? He literally reacted to it and leaned back in time.

(ignore the quality, I can't do this properly)

I'm not wrong

 

[Mythic381]

Dude, i meant a knife🫩
Adam used a double side halberd-guitar axe

You can't slash and pierce at the same time. If Adam was trying to slice Alastor in half it would've at least pierced him, but it didn't.

Then, why tf is it the top?

Because the top is the side he decided to slash with.

I'm not wrong

I don't see the point of mentioning my image? It just proves my point that Alastor leaned back enough so he doesn't get hurt even more.

 

[Polastournecis]

You can't slash and pierce at the same time. If Adam was trying to slice Alastor in half it would've at least pierced him, but it didn't.

Not for a halberd
If it swings that way, both the top spike and the blade will hit, with the spike playing as a hook to disable movements

Because the top is the side he decided to slash with.

Ok, seriously
I don't know whether you actually know what is a slash or not

Slashing uses the sharp edges of the weapon, while stabbing uses the pointy end. Big difference

 

[Mythic381]

Not for a halberd
If it swings that way, both the top spike and the blade will hit, with the spike playing as a hook to disable movement

Not even a halberd can do that? Unless you're assuming it somehow pierced him with the end and then slashed him with the sides of the axe which makes no sense.

Slashing uses the sharp edges of the weapon, while stabbing uses the pointy end. Big difference

That's just not true? You're acting as if it's some impossibility to slash with the pointy end.

 

[Polastournecis]

Not even a halberd can do that? Unless you're assuming it somehow pierced him with the end and then slashed him with the sides of the axe which makes no sense.

If you assume it is a simple stab

In actuality, a blade stabbed into an object can be drawn across the surface, tearing open into a rip of the width equals that said blade length
I just don't know what it is called

That's just not true? You're acting as if it's some impossibility to slash with the pointy end.

That is called scratching, my good sir

 

[Mythic381]

If you assume it is a simple stab

Why would we assume it's a simple stab if it didn't even pierce him?

In actuality, a blade stabbed into an object can be drawn across the surface, tearing open into a rip of the width equals that said blade length

Except it didn't in this case, because it would've been actively ripping apart his insides, yet it didn't.

That is called scratching, my good sir

No? If you use the actual definition of scratch, it's a more general term for a superficial wound that results from a shallow impact or light drag.

 

[Polastournecis]

Why would we assume it's a simple stab if it didn't even pierce him?

I have no idea with you on this if even visual cannot help

Except it didn't in this case, because it would've been actively ripping apart his insides, yet it didn't.

And that's the point of me upgrading his durability?

No? If you use the actual definition of scratch, it's a more general term for a superficial wound that results from a shallow impact or light drag.

Which is basically scratching
Slashing needs sharp edges as i said
(Pls stop putting a question mark after every sentence)

 

[Mythic381]

I have no idea with you on this if even visual cannot help

None of the visuals proved it.

And that's the point of me upgrading his durability?

You're trying to say it was somehow able to move smoothly to create a huge gash without it stopping from any of the internal organs or anything at all?

Which is basically scratching
Slashing needs sharp edges as i said

Scratching is a "general" term, not something specific.
It doesn't. Like I said, it is possible to use the very end tip to slash.

 

[Polastournecis]

You're trying to say it was somehow able to move smoothly to create a huge gash without it stopping from any of the internal organs or anything at all?

Smoothly when?
It is rough and goes in multiple phases, compared to other slashes

Scratching is a "general" term, not something specific.
It doesn't. Like I said, it is possible to use the very end tip to slash.

Then, it is not exactly a slash that way

Alastor'a blood dripping on the top of the spike implies it's a puncture
A slash would make blood splatted much less on the top (solely on the tip point and def not 1/3 of the spike), or trailing through edges the same as the axe blades

 

[Mythic381]

Smoothly when?
It is rough and goes in multiple phases, compared to other slashes

??? It literally smoothly moves in one move to slash his chest. That's literally it moving smoothly.

Alastor'a blood dripping on the top of the spike implies it's a puncture

It's literally a gash. We're just playing on semantics. It literally does not matter.

A slash would make blood splatted much less on the top (solely on the tip point and def not 1/3 of the spike), or trailing through edges the same as the axe blades

Again, playing on semantics. The whole point of the argument is that it only caused a big gash on his chest rather than Alastor tanking any further damaging. Which he wouldn't scale to anyways as this isn't how the durability standards work here.

 

[Polastournecis]

Again, playing on semantics. The whole point of the argument is that it only caused a big gash on his chest rather than Alastor tanking any further damaging. Which he wouldn't scale to anyways as this isn't how the durability standards work here.

Sure, getting sawed by a chainsaw with only a small gash would still keep you at human level dura
It mitigated the full damage that it is supposed to do, and i don't want to explain why again cuz i had enough of it

Would like to see you how you explain a melee strike of that width to be a glancing slash

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

This thread isn't needed since the other Alastor CRT is going through and covers most of this I think

 

[Mythic381]

Would like to see you how you explain a melee strike of that width to be a glancing slash

Would you like to explain why I noted Alastor leaning back is important so he doesn't get sliced in half besides saying "doesn't matter much"

I mean, can't really believe the guy who is 10x stronger than Alastor would somehow fail to do that.. but sure

 

[Polastournecis]

I mean, can't really believe the guy who is 10x stronger than Alastor would somehow fail to do that.. but sure

A reminder that Charlie's full demon form scales to base Alastor dura, as said in her profile

Also, she outright said Alastor was the best pick she had against Adam before Lucifer arrival

 

[Polastournecis]

This thread isn't needed since the other Alastor CRT is going through and covers most of this I think

I would just need to remove what have been accepted

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

I would just need to remove what have been accepted

• Flight, Intangibility and Teleportation: As a shadow, Alastor gains hyper-maneuverabilty, as shown he can both teleport and fly at the same time, while turning incorporeal
  • Possession and Matter Manipulation: Can merge with the environment and attack Vox via it.
• Flight: As seen multiple times in his battle with Vox and Shok.wav's pursuit
• Surface Scaling and Acrobatics: "Iceskated" on skycraper walls as if it was the ground. Is demonstrated to have incredible mobility as he can perform backflips/somersaults to dodge Shok.wav, even when standing on a wall.

these have either been accepted or denied and tweaked in the other Alastor CRT

 

[Mythic381]

A reminder that Charlie's full demon form scales to base Alastor dura, as said in her profile

No it doesn't? Unless you're referring to this:

Can endure a beating from a casual Adam, who she thought only Alastor could handle)

In which case, it literally says "thought" never actually proven to be true in any of the fights.

Also, she outright said Alastor was the best pick she had against Adam before Lucifer arrival

Okay? None of them knew how strong Adam was, and Alastor was specifically picked because he's obviously the smarter and superior combatant to Charlie.

 

[Polastournecis]

In which case, it literally says "thought" never actually proven to be true in any of the fights.

It's still in the reasoning for Durability.

Alastor has another statement that Overlords thought only Lucifer can truly handle him, evident by Vox instantly getting the crebility to become the new ruler of Hell and establish an alliance with virtually all Sovereign Overlords of Hell (though he and the Vees as a whole have been disliked by them, being claimed as "self-absorbed", "gassed up" and all), all after Alastor being held captive

This has been emphasized twice by powerful characters so it is valid enough

Okay? None of them knew how strong Adam was, and Alastor was specifically picked because he's obviously the smarter and superior combatant to Charlie.

Same as Stamina. We don't know had Adam really fought in annual Extermination like Exorcists or he's just hanging with Lute and ******* around, but it is still listed

 

[Polastournecis]

• Flight, Intangibility and Teleportation: As a shadow, Alastor gains hyper-maneuverabilty, as shown he can both teleport and fly at the same time, while turning incorporeal
  • Possession and Matter Manipulation: Can merge with the environment and attack Vox via it.
• Flight: As seen multiple times in his battle with Vox and Shok.wav's pursuit
• Surface Scaling and Acrobatics: "Iceskated" on skycraper walls as if it was the ground. Is demonstrated to have incredible mobility as he can perform backflips/somersaults to dodge Shok.wav, even when standing on a wall.

these have either been accepted or denied and tweaked in the other Alastor CRT

I would keep the Surface Scaling since Orange didn't mention it

About Possession and Matter Manipulation, Orange said he wasn't sure but i have something can help

 

[Mythic381]

It's still in the reasoning for Durability

It's just implying how strong Adam is and now powerful Charlie's durability is compared to Alastor. Not proving anything for anyone.

Same as Stamina. We don't know had Adam really fought in annual Extermination like Exorcists or he's just hanging with Lute and ******* around, but it is still listed

So Adam, leader of exorcists, was just coincidentally there when Lute took down Vaggie? Sure.

 

[Polastournecis]

It's just implying how strong Adam is and now powerful Charlie's durability is compared to Alastor. Not proving anything for anyone.

Bruh you quoted me before i can make my reasoning
Check it again

 

[Mythic381]

Bruh you quoted me before i can make my reasoning

You edited the message, the **** did you want me to do?

Alastor has another statement that Overlords thought only Lucifer can truly handle him, evident by Vox instantly getting the crebility to become the new ruler of Hell and establish an alliance with virtually all Overlords (though he and the Vees as a whole have been disliked by them, being claimed as "self-absorbed", "gassed up" and all), all after Alastor being held captive

That doesn't mean it's true. And I have mentioned to Orangeguy (who wrote the justifications) how unnecessary they are. Lucifer is millions of times stronger than Alastor to the point it isn't a comparison. Their thought process doesn't matter if it's literally just false.

 

[Polastournecis]

You edited the message, the **** did you want me to do?

I hadn't finished it, yet

That doesn't mean it's true. And I have mentioned to Orangeguy (who wrote the justifications) how unnecessary they are. Lucifer is millions of times stronger than Alastor to the point it isn't a comparison. Their thought process doesn't matter if it's literally just false.

Now powerful Charlie's durability is compared to Alastor. Not proving anything for anyone.

I had discussed about that with him ever before you did, actually

It just means that Alastor's power is close enough to Morningstars' level. Not saying he is equipvalent to Lucifer

Especially since Alastor took a far more powerful attack from Adam than Full Demon Charlie ever did (i have talked about this all the time so pls don't make me repeat), implying his dura is above her level

Electrified tentacles, which scales to his durability, could stun Adam with a relatively weak attack, and they are only reduced to fodders once Adam pulled out his axe

 

[Mythic381]

It just means that Alastor's power is close enough to Morningstars' level. Not saying he is equipvalent to Lucifer

Which is completely false as you're going by statements from random Overlords who have no idea how strong Lucifer actually is. The point that he's close in itself makes no sense. Alastor could barely harm Adam who literally couldn't harm Lucifer despite literally flying him into a literal wall.

Especially since Alastor took a far more powerful attack from Adam than Full Demon Charlie ever did (i have talked about this all the time so pls don't make me repeat), implying his dura is above her level

No? Full Demon Charlie literally tanked an attack from an enraged Adam. Alastor barely survived being slashed by an attack that he himself literally leaned back enough not to get even more damaged.

Electrified tentacles, which scales to his durability, could stun Adam with a relatively weak attack, and they are only reduced to fodders once Adam pulled out his axe

Notice how he could only stun Adam, who couldn't even stun Lucifer.

They're not comparable or close.

 

[Polastournecis]

No? Full Demon Charlie literally tanked an attack from an enraged Adam. Alastor barely survived being slashed by an attack that he himself literally leaned back enough not to get even more damaged.

With Rage Power, you mean
(I have talked about this all the time so pls don't make me repeat)
Having leaned back but still took the full swing (the visual carried this) say much about him

Notice how he could only stun Adam, who couldn't even stun Lucifer.

It just means that Alastor's power is close enough to Morningstars' level. Not saying he is equipvalent to Lucifer

I would say that harming Adam makes him Morningstars' level at full power
Ignore whatever i said about Overlords

 

[Greatsage13th]

I agree with the durability part.

 

[Polastournecis]

Which is completely false as you're going by statements from random Overlords who have no idea how strong Lucifer actually is. The point that he's close in itself makes no sense. Alastor could barely harm Adam who literally couldn't harm Lucifer despite literally flying him into a literal wall.

I only said Morningstars level since he fought generally on par with Adam, with the latter only able to take him out with a charged attack

No? Full Demon Charlie literally tanked an attack from an enraged Adam. Alastor barely survived being slashed by an attack that he himself literally leaned back enough not to get even more damaged.

With Rage Power, you mean

(I have talked about this all the time so pls don't make me repeat)

Having leaned back but still took the full swing (the visual carried this) say much about him.
Electrified tentacles could harm Adam with little effort without angelic weaponry, and they are not even Alastor's full power