Genshin hax (sahl propaganda) removal 2

[PedjaTarzan]

• 
  Higher-Dimensional Existence [4-D] (The Ruler of Time Istaroth is the embodiment of time, encompassing the entire temporal dimension, governing and embodying the entire timeline of the microcosm across past, present and future.

This is just Temporal Omnipresence, something she literally has on her profile. On top of that the downgrade regarding her low 2-C existence was done here, so there is no reason to assume she has any 4D existence anymore.

• Plot Manipulation with Storytelling Magic (Wrote the story of the world, where she able to alter the narrative and rewrote reality. The Storytelling magic is almost unshakable power, it govern how people met, got to know each other and became close to each other. Every living being has its own story and meant for them, and their endings have long been written in the heavens. The story of Mini Durin and the Evil Dragon Durin are actually two versions of the same story, and the Evil Dragon Durin's story has already ended.

The first part is not a plot hax, she isnt manipulating any narrative nor she is altering anything in the "Story" she "writes", at best you can argue Text Manipulation, but this requires additional proof she actually can alter narrative in the way the profile claims to. Because she actually only alters the "story" by using time hax, but we dont even have a single feat of her altering story in any way possible.

Second part... "storytelling" literally this:

Storytelling is the interactive, artistic, and social practice of sharing narratives—oral, written, or digital—to entertain, educate, preserve culture, or instill values. It uses techniques like plot, character development, and emotion to connect with audiences. Effective stories often center on change, conflict, and a clear message.

Are we seriously extrapolating the basic definition of story telling, and then tying it with plot hax because someone wrote a story inside a book for a person?
Well that shouldnt be the case, the very reason for the Simulanka Durin and Real Durin having two versions of the same story is because Simulanka Durin was bound by fate. That the evil dragon would eventually return as the prophecy has foretold.
Which they literally break trough by getting durin unbound by shackles of fate. He literally challenged fate itself so he could not be reborn as the evil dragon.
So the entire anti feat for istaroth is that literally People inside a literal storybook, something she would ever so easily manipulate with plot hax actually got overriden by people inside plot, said plot is actually FATE MANIPULATION and not PLOT MANIPULATION.

• Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Type 1; Aspects Types 1, 2, 3 & 4) (The Abyss is an entity or power of entirely composed of Nothingness. The Abyss, or Abyssal Energy, originates from the Void Realm, a realm beyond the boundaries of the universe with Boundless darkness within.ot a living being but rather a form of pure Chaos and Nothingness. It has no soul, consciousness, logic and physical form.

First scan is literally just where the location of the abyss originates from, basically nothing special here.
second scan mentions "emptiness" not "nothingness" ? more of a void manipulation which abyss already has.
third scan since lacking soul qualifies for aspect 1 i can keep Abyss as NEP 1 aspect 1.
however scans about lacking aspect 2, 3 and 4 literally do not exist so that should be gone.

Also all sinners will have this gone, they literally arent "nonexistent" Rerir literally gets torn to pieces by entering moon gate and restores his BODY during Nod Krai quests, so no Sinners do not have NEP!!!.

• Higher-Dimensional Existence [4-D] (As one of the Four Shades that represent the Concept of Space itself that governs everything in the microcosm, Asmoday resides on the same plane of existence as the other Shades especially The Ruler of Time Istaroth who is the embodiment of the Timeline itself that governs the microcosm and the past, present and future.

Not a single mention of Asmoday representing concept of space, rather represents powers over space, spatial manipulation, manipulation of space get it? just a space hax for the love of god.
Now "residing on the same plane of existence" and its literally an unknown unelaborated place in which even "lower dimensional" beings can actually stare at. literally a made up scenario where shades would have 4D HDE for being comparable to istaroth (chainscaling HDE is insane) and assuming the realm is actual higher dimension while it literally isnt.

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2), Law Manipulation & Spatial Manipulation [Conceptual] (The Ruler of Space Asmoday has the power and absolute authority over Space, as she is a Shade that representing and embodying the concept of Space itself. The Authorities of the Four Shades is described as being part of the fundamental rules and laws, their power has reached a higher level of reality than the humans' reality, and it is also part of the Universal Law established by the Heavenly Principles that governs all

Like i said, we completely lack any genuine proof of Shades having manipulation of Concepts like Space Time Death Life etc...
And you can quite literally see that everything they have is Law Hax too. Nothing about CM hax is here bruh.

• Immortality (Type 1; Ineffa as the Eleventh Lord is an Artificial Intelligence created by the Pyro Dragon Sovereign and have lived before the current world of Teyvat is created. Ineffa as a "Good Bot" of the Eleventh Lord have lived since over 2000 years ago.

I mean this is problem with 6767 different profiles on vsbw so i cant even blame bro , this is longevity and not immortality.

• Abstract Existence (Type 1; The Ruler of Time Istaroth is one of the Four Shades of the Heavenly Principles, She's the embodiment of Time, and a shade that representing the Concept of Time itself)

First, its a complete misunderstanding about How AE1 works, simply being called "something" itself is not warrating AE 1 in the slightest, i mean this should not even grant AE in the first place.
But lets get some cool anti feats for Istaroth and EVERY shade that has AE1.

"When the Doves Held Branches"
When the eternal throne of the heavens came, the world was made anew. Then the true lord, the Primordial One, came forth and did battle against the seven terrifying sovereigns, dragon-lords of the old world. The Primordial One created shining shades of itself, and the number of these shades was four.

Shades were created by Primordial one.



Their power was literally given by Heavens (Primordial one)


Flowery language diff, not only that but this scan is taken from genshin impact wiki and the scan leads to "Erosion" which is just called "curse of time". Genuenly baffling people actually extrapolated this into actual concept of time.
Not to mention time existed LONG before Shades including istaroth and she was predated by Moon Sisters who have exact same powers shades have too .

• Existence Erasure (Fundamental, Memories & Soul; If a Ley Lines system that pertains to one's being were to be replaced, then they'll be erased from existence and all of reality will be rewritten according to their disappearance, which causes everyone who remember the erased entity to have all their memories erased. Arlecchino stated the loss of memories results in the byproduct of losing one-self. Once one's memories becomes consumed by flames, their entire existence in the present will be erased and then wake-up in the past, forever confined with their own past. All of the affairs and memories concerning to them in the present will also be erased, to the point no one practically remembers them and regarded as to have "died")

Is the fundamental and soul erasure here with us? Because the entire section of the leyline hax including this one does not mentioned erasure of souls or any fundamental erasure, in fact what Arlecchino was talking about isnt even actual erasure of a person but only memories.
In fact the same scans used for the EE part literally uses this.

Yeah see? only memory gets wiped out where did we even find fundamental and soul erasure to begin with?
Oh and another thing, Scaramouche literally erased his memories from irminsul, guess what? he was alive and well the moment we found him instead he was just wandering guy.

• Abstract Existence (Type 1 [Information Type 2]: Xiuhcoatl is the Pyro Dragon Sovereign, he was the master of the first flame (Phlogiston). The Seven Sovereigns are the strongest elemental dragons and are the purest embodiment of the elements.> As the Pyro Dragon, Xiuhcoatl was a pure Phlogiston Lifeform as he was born from the primal flame on the Sacred Mountain. Phlogiston is Information itself, He can even plunge his entire body into the Phlogiston. By all rights, there was no way he could have been harmed. Phlogiston transcribes information to imitate the essence of any and all things.

Fist of all being "information" itself is not info type 2 at all, second therees not a single scan that says hes pure "phlogiston lifeform" let alone to be "phlogiston itself". and lastly what part of this scan talks about phlogiston being abstarct element why are we equating that embodying something is automatically an abstraction and thus AE1? this doesnt even qualify for type 2, as the only thing this provides is that Xiuhcoatl has an Invulnerability to his body due to phlogiston. with his weak spot literally being his eye.

Thousands of years later, Xbalanque, who had not yet become Pyro Archon at the time, fought him at the Great Volcano of Tollan. Xbalanque pierced the weak spots of the dragon's eyes, one of which was split in two and left behind two white disc-shaped fragments.< Both Xbalanque and Xiuhcoatl fell from a great height during the battle and died. While Xiuhcoatl remained dead, Xbalanque was wreathed in fire and revived.

This is biggest anti feat for AE1, Xiuhcoatl is literally physical being with actual weak spot being his eyes, this is why the rest of body being invulnerable because of phlogiston, not because it is some sort of abstraction that we dont have a single statement about.

• Existence Erasure [Concept] via Preparation (Xiuhcoatl created the Huitzilopochtli, a nuclear-like device that contains the authority of primal fire/Phlogiston that could burn/erase everything including substantive and ley lines which conceptual network of memories, leaving nothing but solely primal fire and pure information behind.)

Genuine no comment here, just headcannoned assumption of "Erasing" stuff when in fact it is just burning and context pretty much talks about phlogiston destroying everything and not erasing them. as for concept? pretty much a NPI on that level.

I think thats all i found wrong

 

[Puppet43]

agree except on Ineffa immo, like she is a robot so ofc she wont be able to die of age

 

[Mbpoops]

Ill read more indepth later (mobile grrr) but agree ESPECIALLY with plot manip removal and HDE.

 

[Furina003]

Following, i will give some input later

 

[IStar0thh]

following. I’ll take a closer look at everything later, though I’m currently neutral on the Plot Manipulation aspect. It would also help if Genshin supporters could provide the CN version of Dottore’s line, as that might clarify things further. For now, however, I agree with the points regarding the Pyro Sovereign.

Edit: Perhaps it would be better to add some tags to the CRT—it would make it easier to find.

 

[MSahla]

Can you just not mentioning my name.

---

This is just Temporal Omnipresence, something she literally has on her profile. On top of that the downgrade regarding her low 2-C existence was done here, so there is no reason to assume she has any 4D existence anymore.

Her downgrade only talk about the tier, not automatically affected the HDE. While i do agree that the rest of the shades HDE should gone, but not Istaroth.

First, its a complete misunderstanding about How AE1 works, simply being called "something" itself is not warrating AE 1 in the slightest, i mean this should not even grant AE in the first place.
But lets get some cool anti feats for Istaroth and EVERY shade that has AE1.

Shades were created by Primordial one.

Being created doesn't disqualified for someone having AE1 whatsoever. Dialga from Pokemon whose the embodiment of time was also created by Arceus, yet it still have AE1. AE1 is simple, it's when they exist purely as an abstraction, and whatever form that is not abstraction are merely avatars/projections. It is already mentioned that the Shades were merely the projections of the Heavenly Principles. They were created merely as an Avatar.

Why do you even think we gave her AE1 just because she was said "Time" itself? As if we don't have other evidences to prove it more.
Istaroth is already said to be "Time" itself, following by Zhongli's statement as the Embodiment of Time (eng version says Avatar of Time), and you got Enkanomiyan describing her as the mother of 14 billion years/mother of time.

Her essence/whatness of being Time itself is already explained in the lore, such as:

• Exist in Every Moments simultaneously
• Creates all moments and allow them to be forgotten
• Knows all things (nigh-omniscient)
• Retrocausality/Effect → Cause, to her
• Mother of 14 Billion Years (the Universe's age)
• Never born, yet gave birth to herself (paradoxical creation outside of time)
• Does not bound by the linear of Time and Causality.

All those things are the properties of Time itself, not just a random woman who manipulate time.

If you STILL being denial that Istaroth isn't Time itself, i can guarantee or bet you that further story will ONLY MORE CONFIRMING that she is Time itself in any way possible, because the story regarding of her from 2.4 until now are consistently saying she's Time itself.

Not to mention time existed LONG before Shades including istaroth and she was predated by Moon Sisters who have exact same powers shades have too .

Predates in this mean is only referring to the Moon Sisters predates the rules of the Heavenly Principles and Shades that constrained every living beings, and nothing else.

Once there was an age when the silver wheels that guided the primal heavens yet remained three.
At that time, the laws bestowed from the heavens had yet to be assembled, and the boundaries of humanity had yet to be defined.

The Moon Sisters exist as the manifestation of Nibelung's will and majesty. They were born to inhereted his Authority and govern the world in his stead while he's traveling through the dark Universe. The Moon Sister's governing aren't comparable to the Shades and Heavenly Principles in any shape of form, be it the scope or how it works. The Moon Sisters only govern the already-existing laws because they only replacing Nibelung, and it is specifically Planetary only. While the Shades and the Shades are universal in scope and constrained every living things.

Having the same exact power doesn't disqualified them being that thing itself, like that's bs. No such rules saying "nobody should have the same power as the one who embody that power"

And no, the Moon Sisters are not having the same exact power as the Shades. Although the Moon Sisters also govern over "Death",
But it's actually not the way we think of how "Death" works.

Some recent lore confirm the "Lady of the Golden Hall" that the boatman from Tsurumi Island quest mention is the moon sisters, meaning they also oversee and guided the souls into the afterlife. This is how the moon sisters representing "Death" authority

And we can see through Columbina who cannot revive Sandrone who's just a robot/non-living thing. Meanwhile you got Ronova literally can kill a pocket dimension, which mean her death manipulation can bypass immunity because that's just like killing a rocks–neither a pocket dimension are a living thing or have the concept of death.

I mean this is problem with 6767 different profiles on vsbw so i cant even blame bro , this is longevity and not immortality.

???
Ineffa is literally a robot, what are y talking abt. And before as Ineffa, she was literally one of the Thirteen Sovereign Lords, a literal Artificial Intelligence/AI btw. And you think AI can grows old and die eventually?

Unlike characters with Immortality Type 1, beings with Longevity do still age, and thus will weaken and eventually die of old age, however long this process may take.

Like i said, we completely lack any genuine proof of Shades having manipulation of Concepts like Space Time Death Life etc...
And you can quite literally see that everything they have is Law Hax too. Nothing about CM hax is here bruh.

Don't say "We", Because i know the proof cause i read this game.

This is literally CM btw, like you can make a qna thread about it. Then you got this statement from Scroll of the Screaming Songs saying the Heavenly Principles created the Universal Law. This is just straight up CM2.

Is the fundamental and soul erasure here with us? Because the entire section of the leyline hax including this one does not mentioned erasure of souls or any fundamental erasure, in fact what Arlecchino was talking about isnt even actual erasure of a person but only memories.
In fact the same scans used for the EE part literally uses this.

Yeah see? only memory gets wiped out where did we even find fundamental and soul erasure to begin with?
Oh and another thing, Scaramouche literally erased his memories from irminsul, guess what? he was alive and well the moment we found him instead he was just wandering guy.

Woomy... That's why they listed "Memories" as well.

Existence Erasure (Fundamental, Memories & Soul;

Fist of all being "information" itself is not info type 2 at all

??
The type 2 was from Phlogiston.

second therees not a single scan that says hes pure "phlogiston lifeform" let alone to be "phlogiston itself".

He was born from the Primal Fire/Phlogiston in the sacred mountain.

and lastly what part of this scan talks about phlogiston being abstarct element why are we equating that embodying something is automatically an abstraction and thus AE1?

sigh

Abstract Existence is the ability to embody an abstraction, such as a concept, thought, or information, and being immortal thanks to it. This power has a variety of uses, ranging from a high degree of control over the abstraction and its manifestations, the aforementioned immortality, or even being unaffected by abilities that can't target the abstraction.

Phlogiston is Information itself, it can transcribes information to immitate the essence of any and all things. In combat, the user can extract information and power from their opponent.

---

I will talk about Plot Manip and Nep later.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Can you just not mentioning my name.

---

Her downgrade only talk about the tier, not automatically affected the HDE. While i do agree that the rest of the shades HDE should gone, but not Istaroth.

its literally here, and it was accepted there i just added it here bcs no one applied the removal and this also counts for removal of AE1

Being created doesn't disqualified for someone having AE1 whatsoever. Dialga from Pokemon whose the embodiment of time was also created by Arceus, yet it still have AE1. AE1 is simple, it's when they exist purely as an abstraction, and whatever form that is not abstraction are merely avatars/projections. It is already mentioned that the Shades were merely the projections of the Heavenly Principles. They were created merely as an Avatar.

Abstract Existence (Type 1; Said to be Time that makes up the World)

Sahl please this shit doesnt even have a proper scan

Why do you even think we gave her AE1 just because she was said "Time" itself? As if we don't have other evidences to prove it more.
Istaroth is already said to be "Time" itself, following by Zhongli's statement as the Embodiment of Time (eng version says Avatar of Time), and you got Enkanomiyan describing her as the mother of 14 billion years/mother of time.

Her essence/whatness of being Time itself is already explained in the lore, such as:

• Exist in Every Moments simultaneously
• Creates all moments and allow them to be forgotten
• Knows all things (nigh-omniscient)
• Retrocausality/Effect → Cause, to her
• Mother of 14 Billion Years (the Universe's age)
• Never born, yet gave birth to herself (paradoxical creation outside of time)
• Does not bound by the linear of Time and Causality.

All those things are the properties of Time itself, not just a random woman who manipulate time.

If you STILL being denial that Istaroth isn't Time itself, i can guarantee or bet you that further story will ONLY MORE CONFIRMING that she is Time itself in any way possible, because the story regarding of her from 2.4 to now are consistently saying she's Time itself.

You have provided everything that was already adressed and ultimately rejected in the low 2-C downgrade thread, and like all of the stuff mentioned here tends to lean towards causality, time, fate and law manipulation instead of AE type 1.
Also this is another case of flowery langauge diff, people literally have bunch of different names from her so no i am not going to take it seriously if someone just calls her "embodiment of time" just for someone else to call her "one who rules over time" or "ruler of time" etc..

Having the same exact power doesn't disqualified them being that thing itself, like that's bs. No such rules saying "nobody should have the same power as the one who embody that power"

And no, the Moon Sisters are not having the same exact power as the Shades. Although the Moon Sisters also govern over "Death",
But it's actually not the way we think of how "Death" works.

What do you mean they dont have exact power as shades when they are literally using exact same set of powers to rule over teyvat ?

Some recent lore confirm the "Lady of the Golden Hall" that the boatman from Tsurumi Island quest mention is the moon sisters, meaning they also oversee and guided the souls into the afterlife. This is how the moon sisters representing "Death" authority

And we can see through Columbina who cannot revive Sandrone who's just a robot/non-living thing. Meanwhile you got Ronova literally can kill a pocket dimension, which mean her death manipulation can bypass immunity because that's just like killing a rocks–neither a pocket dimension are a living thing or have the concept of death.

Okay now tell me which exact part proves your point? literally nothing what you mentioned right now has any proof regarding AE1 lol

???
Ineffa is literally a robot, what are y talking abt. And before as Ineffa, she was literally one of the Thirteen Sovereign Lords, a literal Artificial Intelligence/AI btw. And you think AI can grows old and die eventually?

...what makes AI live infinitely in the first place? its literally you who has to prove that lol

Don't say "We", Because i know the proof cause i read this game.

This is literally CM btw, like you can make a qna thread about it. Then you got this statement from Scroll of the Screaming Songs saying the Heavenly Principles created the Universal Law. This is just straight up CM2.

List me exact standard from vsbw pages or any specific staff thread regarding this being CM2, laws=/=concepts ffs.

Woomy... That's why they listed "Memories" as well.

Thats why im removing Soul and Fundamental erasure lol. its only memory EE

??
The type 2 was from Phlogiston.

He was born from the Primal Fire/Phlogiston in the sacred mountain.


sigh

Phlogiston is Information itself, it can transcribes information to immitate the essence of any and all things. In combat, the user can extract information and power from their opponent.

Phlogiston is USED to transcribe informations that makes all things, not that PHLOGISTON is the information that makes all things, there IS a difference. and as far as i remember Im2 phlogiston is not combat applicable and used as a tool for IM2 instead.

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I will talk about Plot Manip and Nep later.

nep is fine for abyss itself. or whoever is the primordial source of abyss (IX) as for plot hax? thats just applicable to simulanka and the book Anya wrote what istaroth has is fate hax.

 

[LoudestProcedure]

What did Sahl do anyways agree

 

[Mbpoops]

What did Sahl do anyways agree

Genshim plot manip

 

[Mbpoops]

or whoever is the primordial source of abyss (IX) .

Bruh we’re never getting abyssal energy now

 

[Frostyyyy12]

Agree.

 

[Furina003]

This is just Temporal Omnipresence, something she literally has on her profile. On top of that the downgrade regarding her low 2-C existence was done here, so there is no reason to assume she has any 4D existence anymore.

Existence and attack potency are two different things, existence must still be maintained because Istaroth is all of time itself. Unless you have relevant evidence that Istaroth is not the embodiment of time

The first part is not a plot hax, she isnt manipulating any narrative nor she is altering anything in the "Story" she "writes", at best you can argue Text Manipulation, but this requires additional proof she actually can alter narrative in the way the profile claims to. Because she actually only alters the "story" by using time hax, but we dont even have a single feat of her altering story in any way possible.

Second part... "storytelling" literally this:

what are you discussing here, the scan on the profile clearly states that istaroth is the author of the reality story, so what makes you think if it is not plot manipulation, what you are saying here has no evidence at all

Are we seriously extrapolating the basic definition of story telling, and then tying it with plot hax because someone wrote a story inside a book for a person?
Well that shouldnt be the case, the very reason for the Simulanka Durin and Real Durin having two versions of the same story is because Simulanka Durin was bound by fate. That the evil dragon would eventually return as the prophecy has foretold.
Which they literally break trough by getting durin unbound by shackles of fate. He literally challenged fate itself so he could not be reborn as the evil dragon.
So the entire anti feat for istaroth is that literally People inside a literal storybook, something she would ever so easily manipulate with plot hax actually got overriden by people inside plot, said plot is actually FATE MANIPULATION and not PLOT MANIPULATION.

You only present a literal understanding of storytelling, and it's not even relevant to refute plot manipulation. Storytelling magic is the magic that determines the character's story, how Durin's story was written in such a way that it created Durin as it is now. So, what's your rebuttal here? It's completely irrelevant and merely speculative, with no evidence to support your claim, just for your information, fate manipulation that has an impact on the reality plot will become plot manipulation,

Fate in Genshin is not just about determining fate, but also about the narrative. Have you forgotten the events at Fontaine? The prophecy seen by the visionary even determined the stages of how fate ultimately unfolds, all their actions have even become part of the scenario to determine the end of their fate, even the furina trial which was actually to prevent fate, instead became part of the scenario, so whatever they do is part of the destiny scenario that has been written
. Therefore, fate is described as a drama where the plot and ending are already determined before the drama even begins.

First scan is literally just where the location of the abyss originates from, basically nothing special here.
second scan mentions "emptiness" not "nothingness" ? more of a void manipulation which abyss already has.
third scan since lacking soul qualifies for aspect 1 i can keep Abyss as NEP 1 aspect 1.
however scans about lacking aspect 2, 3 and 4 literally do not exist so that should be gone.

what is your point of rebuttal here, you just believe it can't be done, but that's just what you believe, without explaining why it can't be done

Also all sinners will have this gone, they literally arent "nonexistent" Rerir literally gets torn to pieces by entering moon gate and restores his BODY during Nod Krai quests, so no Sinners do not have NEP!!!.

i dont care about this, because nep 1 only for entity purely abyss

Not a single mention of Asmoday representing concept of space, rather represents powers over space, spatial manipulation, manipulation of space get it? just a space hax for the love of god.
Now "residing on the same plane of existence" and its literally an unknown unelaborated place in which even "lower dimensional" beings can actually stare at. literally a made up scenario where shades would have 4D HDE for being comparable to istaroth (chainscaling HDE is insane) and assuming the realm is actual higher dimension while it literally isnt.

same as argument for istaroth, they are in the same state of existence, so they have the same physiology.

Like i said, we completely lack any genuine proof of Shades having manipulation of Concepts like Space Time Death Life etc...
And you can quite literally see that everything they have is Law Hax too. Nothing about CM hax is here bruh.

Can't the aspects that support the world be considered a concept? The shades are a from the aspects that support reality, meaning that without these four fundamental aspects, reality would not exist as it does today. So this isn't just a matter of law manipulation, but rather a matter of the most fundamental things that underpin reality. The concept of time is also mentioned here, meaning that the authority of shades has an impact all the way down to the conceptual level.

I mean this is problem with 6767 different profiles on vsbw so i cant even blame bro , this is longevity and not immortality.

I don't know about this

First, its a complete misunderstanding about How AE1 works, simply being called "something" itself is not warrating AE 1 in the slightest, i mean this should not even grant AE in the first place.
But lets get some cool anti feats for Istaroth and EVERY shade that has AE1.

AE1 just needs to be an abstraction, so what's the problem here? Do you think concept time, space, life, and death are not abstractions?

Shades were created by Primordial one.



Their power was literally given by Heavens (Primordial one)

their power comes from the primordial one, because they are the projection of the primordial one itself, because during the era of the 3 moon goddesses, boundaries were not yet defined, therefore shades were created as a definition of these boundaries

Flowery language diff, not only that but this scan is taken from genshin impact wiki and the scan leads to "Erosion" which is just called "curse of time". Genuenly baffling people actually extrapolated this into actual concept of time.
Not to mention time existed LONG before Shades including istaroth and she was predated by Moon Sisters who have exact same powers shades have too .

erosion is a natural law caused by time, so if erosion has not started then = time has not started.

Is the fundamental and soul erasure here with us? Because the entire section of the leyline hax including this one does not mentioned erasure of souls or any fundamental erasure, in fact what Arlecchino was talking about isnt even actual erasure of a person but only memories.
In fact the same scans used for the EE part literally uses this.

Yeah see? only memory gets wiped out where did we even find fundamental and soul erasure to begin with?
Oh and another thing, Scaramouche literally erased his memories from irminsul, guess what? he was alive and well the moment we found him instead he was just wandering guy.

memory is part of the soul, as explained here, That's why Arlechino said that losing your memory is like losing a part of yourself, that's why we only see Clervie as a child, not as a teenager like when she fought Arlechino.

Fist of all being "information" itself is not info type 2 at all, second therees not a single scan that says hes pure "phlogiston lifeform" let alone to be "phlogiston itself". and lastly what part of this scan talks about phlogiston being abstarct element why are we equating that embodying something is automatically an abstraction and thus AE1? this doesnt even qualify for type 2, as the only thing this provides is that Xiuhcoatl has an Invulnerability to his body due to phlogiston. with his weak spot literally being his eye.

phlogyston is information

This is biggest anti feat for AE1, Xiuhcoatl is literally physical being with actual weak spot being his eyes, this is why the rest of body being invulnerable because of phlogiston, not because it is some sort of abstraction that we dont have a single statement about.

Didn't the eye exist after he modified it? It's the only mechanism that isn't pure phlogyston

 

[MSahla]

its literally here, and it was accepted there i just added it here bcs no one applied the removal and this also counts for removal of AE1

Twilight only mentioning that scan, not others.
The new justification of her AE1 is this

• Abstract Existence (Type 1; The Ruler of Time Istaroth is one of the Four Shades of the Heavenly Principles, She's the embodiment of Time, and a shade that representing the Concept of Time itself.)

Sahl please this shit doesnt even have a proper scan

I mean you can ask Pokemon supporters about that, but i don't see that as not true, as Dialga is one of the Creation Trio alongside Palkia the embodiment of space, and Giratina the embodiment of antimatter. As far as i'm concerned, all of them who makes up the entire multiverse.

You have provided everything that was already adressed and ultimately rejected in the low 2-C downgrade thread, and like all of the stuff mentioned here tends to lean towards causality, time, fate and law manipulation instead of AE type 1.

Oh please.. Not offense to the mods in there but i still don't see any mods who really aware enough of those scans that i gave except Reiner.

Also this is another case of flowery langauge diff, people literally have bunch of different names from her so no i am not going to take it seriously if someone just calls her "embodiment of time" just for someone else to call her "one who rules over time" or "ruler of time" etc..

Woomy.. When Zhongli mentioned her as "Embodiment of Time", he's talking about her essence or what being she is. Then later when they mentioned "Ruler of Time" they actually talking about title.

Because woomy, Embodiment of Time is not a title whatsoever, especially the CN uses this word 化身. This is not a title word. You can ask any chinese translation helper.

This is just being denial atp, and just being headcanon.

What do you mean they dont have exact power as shades when they are literally using exact same set of powers to rule over teyvat ?

Tell me, what part of the Moon Sisters power that constrained humanity? While it was already mentioned that the laws from the heavens had yet define the boundaries of humanity when the sisters still govern over the world.

Once there was an age when the silver wheels that guided the primal heavens yet remained three.
At that time, the laws bestowed from the heavens had yet to be assembled, and the boundaries of humanity had yet to be defined.

You definitely are not reading my explanations of why they're different, aren't you? It's clear by thr fact that you cut my words and pointing a specifict quote and ignoring the explanations.

Okay now tell me which exact part proves your point? literally nothing what you mentioned right now has any proof regarding AE1 lol

You here replying to my explanations regarding of how Moon Sisters governed the laws, what are u even doing.

...what makes AI live infinitely in the first place? its literally you who has to prove that lol

What makes it's not? Dragons is literally immortal lmao.

List me exact standard from vsbw pages or any specific staff thread regarding this being CM2, laws=/=concepts ffs.

Laws can be concepts buddy, what u talk about, it depends of what laws it is. If the laws is like Space-Time and fate then that's just concept. Like we in real life, space-time are part of the universal laws.

Phlogiston is USED to transcribe informations that makes all things, not that PHLOGISTON is the information that makes all things, there IS a difference. and as far as i remember Im2 phlogiston is not combat applicable and used as a tool for IM2 instead.

"Phlogiston isn't combat applicable"
Are u kidding me? Those natlan characters literally used the Nightsoul's Blessing, because of what? Because of Phlogiston lmao.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Existence and attack potency are two different things, existence must still be maintained because Istaroth is all of time itself. Unless you have relevant evidence that Istaroth is not the embodiment of time

what are you discussing here, the scan on the profile clearly states that istaroth is the author of the reality story, so what makes you think if it is not plot manipulation, what you are saying here has no evidence at all

The very justifications you used is contradicted by the fact durin had power to challenge and alter his own fate, thats literally anything but plot hax
this is what plot hax is:

Plot Manipulation is the ability to create, destroy, or control the plot that governs reality. Commonly found in metafictional stories, the plot can be understood as a fundamental aspect of reality once one views that reality as fictional. It is the description of the world that doesn't only describe, but determines, reality itself. As such, by altering the plot, one can achieve virtually any effect, in a similar fashion as with Reality Warping

First part of justification is literally some reality warping shit at best, second one is literally fate hax as i explained.

You only present a literal understanding of storytelling, and it's not even relevant to refute plot manipulation. Storytelling magic is the magic that determines the character's story, how Durin's story was written in such a way that it created Durin as it is now. So, what's your rebuttal here? It's completely irrelevant and merely speculative, with no evidence to support your claim, just for your information, fate manipulation that has an impact on the reality plot will become plot manipulation,

Otherwise it would simply be Supernatural Luck or Fate Manipulation.

Fate in Genshin is not just about determining fate, but also about the narrative. Have you forgotten the events at Fontaine? The prophecy seen by the visionary even determined the stages of how fate ultimately unfolds, all their actions have even become part of the scenario to determine the end of their fate, even the furina trial which was actually to prevent fate, instead became part of the scenario, so whatever they do is part of the destiny scenario that has been written
. Therefore, fate is described as a drama where the plot and ending are already determined before the drama even begins.

This is exactly how fate hax works btw, and seeing fate is nothing more but a precognition

what is your point of rebuttal here, you just believe it can't be done, but that's just what you believe, without explaining why it can't be done

uh what?

i dont care about this, because nep 1 only for entity purely abyss

okay.

same as argument for istaroth, they are in the same state of existence, so they have the same physiology.

this makes 0 sense because u are quite literally making Asmoday Time itself, Istaroth Space Itself, Ronova Life itself Naberius Death itself. all this in circles because they all share same physiology bcs they are same state of existence? Literal 0 logic moment

Can't the aspects that support the world be considered a concept? The shades are a from the aspects that support reality, meaning that without these four fundamental aspects, reality would not exist as it does today. So this isn't just a matter of law manipulation, but rather a matter of the most fundamental things that underpin reality. The concept of time is also mentioned here, meaning that the authority of shades has an impact all the way down to the conceptual level.

"like the concept of time has become blurry" okay so...we are just describing something? how does this prove any relevant shit about shades having CM?

I don't know about this

AE1 just needs to be an abstraction, so what's the problem here? Do you think concept time, space, life, and death are not abstractions?

all im asking is that you provide exact evidence about them having actual abstract form, and all you used do not mention any of that

their power comes from the primordial one, because they are the projection of the primordial one itself, because during the era of the 3 moon goddesses, boundaries were not yet defined, therefore shades were created as a definition of these boundaries

erosion is a natural law caused by time, so if erosion has not started then = time has not started.

it is also called curse of time, which literally means erosion has started the moment heavenly principles have changed foundation of teyvat when istaroth began ruling time

memory is part of the soul, as explained here, That's why Arlechino said that losing your memory is like losing a part of yourself, that's why we only see Clervie as a child, not as a teenager like when she fought Arlechino.

Thats still memory EE bro

phlogyston is information

Didn't the eye exist after he modified it? It's the only mechanism that isn't pure phlogyston

dont know what you meant there but like i said just being information isnt IM 2

 

[Frostyyyy12]

Being created doesn't disqualified for someone having AE1 whatsoever. Dialga from Pokemon whose the embodiment of time was also created by Arceus, yet it still have AE1. AE1 is simple, it's when they exist purely as an abstraction, and whatever form that is not abstraction are merely avatars/projections.

Dialga is the worst example you could’ve used for this, because when Dialga was created, it wasn’t bestowed power over Tim. It in and of itself was Time itself.

Dialga’s power over time does not depend upon Arceus granting it power, it was intrinsic to it. Istaroth, and the other shades, however, was granted the power after she/they was created.

 

[Frostyyyy12]

following. I’ll take a closer look at everything later, though I’m currently neutral on the Plot Manipulation aspect. It would also help if Genshin supporters could provide the CN version of Dottore’s line, as that might clarify things further.

這四象的劃分，錨定了世界，約束了人。她們自身卻超脫其外，揮霍天賜的權柄。

“The division of these Four anchored the world and restrained humanity. Yet they themselves transcend it, squandering the authority granted by heaven.”

It says the same thing.

 

[SuperNova55555]

Flowery language diff

Hey. Stop stealing my slander

 

[Mbpoops]

Hey. Stop stealing my slander

Summoned by flowery language and negative tracking

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Twilight only mentioning that scan, not others.
The new justification of her AE1 is this



I mean you can ask Pokemon supporters about that, but i don't see that as not true, as Dialga is one of the Creation Trio alongside Palkia the embodiment of space, and Giratina the embodiment of antimatter. As far as i'm concerned, all of them who makes up the entire multiverse.

let me be as clear as possible, i dont give a single @%!@# about pokemon okay? YOU LITERALLY linked something with NO SCAN, and most vague ass justification i could see. and used it to claim exact same shit for istaroth and neither works.

Oh please.. Not offense to the mods in there but i still don't see any mods who really aware enough of those scans that i gave except Reiner.

you didnt even debunk his arguments so dont cope about this

Woomy.. When Zhongli mentioned her as "Embodiment of Time", he's talking about her essence or what being she is. Then later when they mentioned "Ruler of Time" they actually talking about title.

You have no proof of this btw, and you literally dont know if he calls her essence or being . holy assumption

Because woomy, Embodiment of Time is not a title whatsoever, especially the CN uses this word 化身. This is not a title word. You can ask any chinese translation helper.

that doesnt mean it CANNOT be used as a title for someone else

This is just being denial atp, and just being headcanon.


Tell me, what part of the Moon Sisters power that constrained humanity? While it was already mentioned that the laws from the heavens had yet define the boundaries of humanity when the sisters still govern over the world.

They literally ruled teyvat bro...

You definitely are not reading my explanations of why they're different, aren't you? It's clear by thr fact that you cut my words and pointing a specifict quote and ignoring the explanations.


You here replying to my explanations regarding of how Moon Sisters governed the laws, what are u even doing.

why should i? it literally proves nothing you want to prove.

What makes it's not? Dragons is literally immortal lmao.

Dragon rulers? scan or it didnt happen

Laws can be concepts buddy, what u talk about, it depends of what laws it is. If the laws is like Space-Time and fate then that's just concept. Like we in real life, space-time are part of the universal laws.

im pretty sure we literally do not give CM to Law hax and Law hax to CM hax for all i care, and AGAIN having power over space and time doesnt mean you control a literal concept this is so simple.

"Phlogiston isn't combat applicable"
Are u kidding me? Those natlan characters literally used the Nightsoul's Blessing, because of what? Because of Phlogiston lmao.

can Kachina do this: Phlogiston transcribes information to imitate the essence of any and all things?

 

[Frostyyyy12]

Dialga is the worst example you could’ve used for this, because when Dialga was created, it wasn’t bestowed power over Tim. It in and of itself was Time itself.

Dialga’s power over time does not depend upon Arceus granting it power, it was intrinsic to it. Istaroth, and the other shades, however, was granted the power after she/they was created.

In fact, we even have a better example of what i’ve said. The Speedforce was created by Barry, but it’s still the concept of speed itself. And the reason why this isn’t an issue is because the speedforce, once created, was inherently something that was speed itself, and was beyond time and dimensionless. Its power over movement wasn’t “granted” by anyone or anything.

The fact that they transcend these concepts to it’s scale in and of itself proves that they’re not embodiments.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Hey. Stop stealing my slander

dear supernova55555 chan can i use flowery language diff in arguments next time? same for negative tracking

 

[Furina003]

The very justifications you used is contradicted by the fact durin had power to challenge and alter his own fate, thats literally anything but plot hax
this is what plot hax is:

haaa you didn't read my points??

First part of justification is literally some reality warping shit at best, second one is literally fate hax as i explained.

no, because it impacts the narrative not just destiny

This is exactly how fate hax works btw, and seeing fate is nothing more but a precognition

Bro, you really don't understand what I'm explaining. Why are you focusing on the visionary who sees the future, not on the case that I'm explaining?

uh what?

?? what is your main point here?

okay.

this makes 0 sense because u are quite literally making Asmoday Time itself, Istaroth Space Itself, Ronova Life itself Naberius Death itself. all this in circles because they all share same physiology bcs they are same state of existence? Literal 0 logic moment

they have the same physiology, so it's not a problem

"like the concept of time has become blurry" okay so...we are just describing something? how does this prove any relevant shit about shades having CM?

sure, it proves that the 4 aspects that support the world are concepts, one of which is the concept of time, so travelers connect these 2 things

all im asking is that you provide exact evidence about them having actual abstract form, and all you used do not mention any of that

Bro, do you seriously think concepts like time and others are not abstractions?

it is also called curse of time, which literally means erosion has started the moment heavenly principles have changed foundation of teyvat when istaroth began ruling time

curse of time because it is caused by time, so it is the same

Thats still memory EE bro

do you remember we met the soul of Capitano's friend? and Mavuika called it memory, so memory and soul are 2 things that are interconnected, that's why the Clervie we met was only her childhood part, because her teenage part was already burned by Arlecchino's fire. if it was just a memory, she wouldn't have lost a part of herself, but only his memory, so this already refutes the things you explained

dont know what you meant there but like i said just being information isnt IM 2

yeah phogyston is type 2 information, so what makes you think it's not type 2?

 

[MSahla]

you didnt even debunk his arguments so dont cope about this

I already replied

You have no proof of this btw, and you literally dont know if he calls her essence or being . holy assumption

Same goes to you with this nonsense:

i am not going to take it seriously if someone just calls her "embodiment of time" just for someone else to call her "one who rules over time" or "ruler of time" etc..

that doesnt mean it CANNOT be used as a title for someone else

How so?

They literally ruled teyvat bro...

Duh?

why should i? it literally proves nothing you want to prove.

So no arguments then, debunks nothing.

Dragon rulers? scan or it didnt happen

im pretty sure we literally do not give CM to Law hax and Law hax to CM hax for all i care, and AGAIN having power over space and time doesnt mean you control a literal concept this is so simple.

Yet they govern over it, not just basic manipulation.
Like what kinda basic time manipulator defines the boundaries of humanity like causality?

can Kachina do this: Phlogiston transcribes information to imitate the essence of any and all things?

Why only Kachina? It's for all phlogiston users.

 

[Frostyyyy12]

Hilarious how nobody here can prove that anyone that is not the Shades themselves saying something about a Shade is reliable.

 

[MSahla]

 

[Frostyyyy12]

Try to if you can, lol.

 

[MSahla]

I have no other words other than the fact that people are so in denial about Genshin Impact. Which is.. Kinda hilarious yet also sad to think about.

 

[Frostyyyy12]

I have no other words other than the fact that people are so in denial about Genshin Impact. Which is.. Kinda hilarious yet also sad to think about.

Or maybe because you can’t actually prove your claim or actually coherently address contradictions, and your entire argument is off utterly unreliable statements of third party characters who have no ability to understand the person in question.

I think anyone with functioning braincells can tell who’s in denial here.

 

[MSahla]

Whatever you say mate.. pfftt

 

[Furina003]

I have no other words other than the fact that people are so in denial about Genshin Impact. Which is.. Kinda hilarious yet also sad to think about.

we just need to do the same with hsr, hi3 and Gi.
there is a lot of hax that is not relevant to these verses

 

[MSahla]

Anyway.. Do y'all things.

 

[Frostyyyy12]

Hilarious how nobody here can prove that anyone that is not the Shades themselves saying something about a Shade is reliable.

Funnily enough, words from the shades directly contradict those of people beneath them describing them. Not only is exaggeration a common practice in ancient records (explicitly stated by the game), things like the Hymns of the Far North get several things wrong (for instance, it says that Nibelung wanted to marry the Voyager, and that was why he left), the very description of the Istaroth section is contradictory to historical records and the only reason it was preserved is due to faith of texts like this.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

haaa you didn't read my points??

no, because it impacts the narrative not just destiny

Bro, you really don't understand what I'm explaining. Why are you focusing on the visionary who sees the future, not on the case that I'm explaining?

Because what ur providing is a standard function of fate manipulation and precognition
Visionary can see the future that will happen because the fate dictates it that way, literally why durin and evil durin are one same story anyway, entire point of istaroth “plot hax” is fate manip wanked to plot hax for no reason

?? what is your main point here?

they have the same physiology, so it's not a problem

Balright you and sahl just went all out to make istaroth time itself but not space death and life itself

sure, it proves that the 4 aspects that support the world are concepts, one of which is the concept of time, so travelers connect these 2 things

No they do not u literally dont have a single scan providing what they rule over is conceptual

Bro, do you seriously think concepts like time and others are not abstractions?

curse of time because it is caused by time, so it is the same

do you remember we met the soul of Capitano's friend? and Mavuika called it memory, so memory and soul are 2 things that are interconnected, that's why the Clervie we met was only her childhood part, because her teenage part was already burned by Arlecchino's fire. if it was just a memory, she wouldn't have lost a part of herself, but only his memory, so this already refutes the things you explained

so tell me then if memory and soul are same why do people who get their memory wiped do not get their soul wiped? whats the point of giving them soul EE if what they erase isnt erasing soul

yeah phogyston is type 2 information, so what makes you think it's not type 2?

Im providing evidence to why xiuhcoatl isnt Abstract bcs of info type 2 and i also provided evidence that phlogiston is only used as a tool for im2 manip which is literally applicable to the Hiuzhcopo something? the teyvat nuking

Yet they govern over it, not just basic manipulation.

Chinese emperor governs over his empire is the Qing empire itself?

Like what kinda basic time manipulator defines the boundaries of humanity like causality?

its like they dont suddenly also have causality hax which is so blatant oh my

Why only Kachina? It's for all phlogiston users.

yeah none of them use phlogiston for Im2 bcs the phlogiston im2 thread was just accepted as phlogiston being tool to use im2
ill find the thread and continue this later bcs im tired rn

 

[Furina003]

Because what ur providing is a standard function of fate manipulation and precognition
Visionary can see the future that will happen because the fate dictates it that way, literally why durin and evil durin are one same story anyway, entire point of istaroth “plot hax” is fate manip wanked to plot hax for no reason

I've already said that it's not just fate, but a narrative that has been determined from the beginning, so that destiny can be realized.
That's why Istaroth isn't said to write fate, but rather write stories/narratives. This is also the case with the storytelling magic performed by the hexenzirkel, as they control the narrative in the simulanka world, and this magic originates from the sky gods.

Balright you and sahl just went all out to make istaroth time itself but not space death and life itself

it's like you think hydro slimes and pyro slimes aren't elemental

No they do not u literally dont have a single scan providing what they rule over is conceptual

it is literally said to be the concept of time, and travelers relate it to the 4 aspects that sustain the world

so tell me then if memory and soul are same why do people who get their memory wiped do not get their soul wiped? whats the point of giving them soul EE if what they erase isnt erasing soul

This completely erases their souls, therefore a part of themselves is erased.

Im providing evidence to why xiuhcoatl isnt Abstract bcs of info type 2 and i also provided evidence that phlogiston is only used as a tool for im2 manip which is literally applicable to the Hiuzhcopo something? the teyvat nuking

phlogyston is type 2 information, I don't care about kachina etc. getting im2 from phlogyston whether it should be removed or not, but that doesn't disprove that phlogyston is im2. and is literally referred to as information.

 

[ItsMeat]

Finally someone said it.

AGREE​

 

[AsterReal]

This is just Temporal Omnipresence, something she literally has on her profile. On top of that the downgrade regarding her low 2-C existence was done here, so there is no reason to assume she has any 4D existence anymore.

The higher dimensional existence is not related to the AP. Disagree.

The first part is not a plot hax, she isnt manipulating any narrative nor she is altering anything in the "Story" she "writes", at best you can argue Text Manipulation, but this requires additional proof she actually can alter narrative in the way the profile claims to. Because she actually only alters the "story" by using time hax, but we dont even have a single feat of her altering story in any way possible.

Second part... "storytelling" literally this:

Are we seriously extrapolating the basic definition of story telling, and then tying it with plot hax because someone wrote a story inside a book for a person?
Well that shouldnt be the case, the very reason for the Simulanka Durin and Real Durin having two versions of the same story is because Simulanka Durin was bound by fate. That the evil dragon would eventually return as the prophecy has foretold.
Which they literally break trough by getting durin unbound by shackles of fate. He literally challenged fate itself so he could not be reborn as the evil dragon.
So the entire anti feat for istaroth is that literally People inside a literal storybook, something she would ever so easily manipulate with plot hax actually got overriden by people inside plot, said plot is actually FATE MANIPULATION and not PLOT MANIPULATION.

To me, it still seems like plot manipulation, but it could well be both.

First scan is literally just where the location of the abyss originates from, basically nothing special here.
second scan mentions "emptiness" not "nothingness" ? more of a void manipulation which abyss already has.
third scan since lacking soul qualifies for aspect 1 i can keep Abyss as NEP 1 aspect 1.
however scans about lacking aspect 2, 3 and 4 literally do not exist so that should be gone.

Also all sinners will have this gone, they literally arent "nonexistent" Rerir literally gets torn to pieces by entering moon gate and restores his BODY during Nod Krai quests, so no Sinners do not have NEP!!!.

Neutral

Not a single mention of Asmoday representing concept of space, rather represents powers over space, spatial manipulation, manipulation of space get it? just a space hax for the love of god.
Now "residing on the same plane of existence" and its literally an unknown unelaborated place in which even "lower dimensional" beings can actually stare at. literally a made up scenario where shades would have 4D HDE for being comparable to istaroth (chainscaling HDE is insane) and assuming the realm is actual higher dimension while it literally isnt.


Like i said, we completely lack any genuine proof of Shades having manipulation of Concepts like Space Time Death Life etc...
And you can quite literally see that everything they have is Law Hax too. Nothing about CM hax is here bruh.

Abstract Existence should remain, in my opinion; Conceptual Manipulation can go to abyss.

I mean this is problem with 6767 different profiles on vsbw so i cant even blame bro , this is longevity and not immortality.

Neutral

First, its a complete misunderstanding about How AE1 works, simply being called "something" itself is not warrating AE 1 in the slightest, i mean this should not even grant AE in the first place.
But lets get some cool anti feats for Istaroth and EVERY shade that has AE1.

Shades were created by Primordial one.



Their power was literally given by Heavens (Primordial one)


Flowery language diff, not only that but this scan is taken from genshin impact wiki and the scan leads to "Erosion" which is just called "curse of time". Genuenly baffling people actually extrapolated this into actual concept of time.
Not to mention time existed LONG before Shades including istaroth and she was predated by Moon Sisters who have exact same powers shades have too .

I already gave my opinion.

Is the fundamental and soul erasure here with us? Because the entire section of the leyline hax including this one does not mentioned erasure of souls or any fundamental erasure, in fact what Arlecchino was talking about isnt even actual erasure of a person but only memories.
In fact the same scans used for the EE part literally uses this.

Yeah see? only memory gets wiped out where did we even find fundamental and soul erasure to begin with?
Oh and another thing, Scaramouche literally erased his memories from irminsul, guess what? he was alive and well the moment we found him instead he was just wandering guy.

 Neutral

Fist of all being "information" itself is not info type 2 at all, second therees not a single scan that says hes pure "phlogiston lifeform" let alone to be "phlogiston itself". and lastly what part of this scan talks about phlogiston being abstarct element why are we equating that embodying something is automatically an abstraction and thus AE1? this doesnt even qualify for type 2, as the only thing this provides is that Xiuhcoatl has an Invulnerability to his body due to phlogiston. with his weak spot literally being his eye.

This is biggest anti feat for AE1, Xiuhcoatl is literally physical being with actual weak spot being his eyes, this is why the rest of body being invulnerable because of phlogiston, not because it is some sort of abstraction that we dont have a single statement about.

Neutral, probably agree.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

I've already said that it's not just fate, but a narrative that has been determined from the beginning, so that destiny can be realized.
That's why Istaroth isn't said to write fate, but rather write stories/narratives. This is also the case with the storytelling magic performed by the hexenzirkel, as they control the narrative in the simulanka world, and this magic originates from the sky gods.

So like which part of this is actually tied to literal plot hax because "narrative" in question is fate, something during literally broke free from.

it's like you think hydro slimes and pyro slimes aren't elemental

you did not even understand a single thing from OP then.
No you are not HDE if u are in same realm as HDE being, no you are not HDE if ur "comparable" to HDE Being bcs that doesnt make sense and NO you cannot logically share literal same physiology as someone whos apparently "time itself" meanwhile u are "space itself" i think the genuine contradictions are shown every time u talk about this.
And with the idea that they transcend those boundaries, just choose what will you do with this.

it is literally said to be the concept of time, and travelers relate it to the 4 aspects that sustain the world

except "Concept of time" is literally a flowery language diff by the fact its just erosion aka also "curse of time".

This completely erases their souls, therefore a part of themselves is erased.

how is wanderer alive who erased his memories with Irminsul? is he also souless somehow? do you just not see that what you are justifying has not shown soul erasure instead u assumed it does without any coherent proof about it.
Arlechinos flame erases memory and makes person completely different one, it literally says that "killing" in question is memory wipe to the point their entire indetity is gone.
Irminsul erases every trace of you from every person in the world from their memories, therefore you get "Erased" but instead you are alive and well just no one remembers you

phlogyston is type 2 information, I don't care about kachina etc. getting im2 from phlogyston whether it should be removed or not, but that doesn't disprove that phlogyston is im2. and is literally referred to as information.

again, just being called "information" isnt im 2, and second im literally disagreeing with xiuhcoatl having AE1 bcs he was covered with phlogiston because
he became invulnerable with phlogiston
nothing says phlogiston is an abstract element
literally physically interactable by tapping his eyes which are his weak spots
phlogiston is just tool used for IM2 manip, literally this thread explains it

 

[Furina003]

So like which part of this is actually tied to literal plot hax because "narrative" in question is fate, something during literally broke free from.

differentiate between narrative and destiny, because Istaroth writes narrative, not destiny.

you did not even understand a single thing from OP then.
No you are not HDE if u are in same realm as HDE being, no you are not HDE if ur "comparable" to HDE Being bcs that doesnt make sense and NO you cannot logically share literal same physiology as someone whos apparently "time itself" meanwhile u are "space itself" i think the genuine contradictions are shown every time u talk about this.
And with the idea that they transcend those boundaries, just choose what will you do with this.

What do you mean? They come from the same source, they are all primordial shadows, which means they have the same physiology and existence. It's quite simple and easy to understand. That's what I'm saying to you, you seem to be differentiating between hydro slime and pyro slime

except "Concept of time" is literally a flowery language diff by the fact its just erosion aka also "curse of time".

I have actually given the scan which clearly states that it is a concept of time, stop diverting the conversation, erosion is a law caused by time, so no erosion = no time

how is wanderer alive who erased his memories with Irminsul? is he also souless somehow? do you just not see that what you are justifying has not shown soul erasure instead u assumed it does without any coherent proof about it.
Arlechinos flame erases memory and makes person completely different one, it literally says that "killing" in question is memory wipe to the point their entire indetity is gone.
Irminsul erases every trace of you from every person in the world from their memories, therefore you get "Erased" but instead you are alive and well just no one remembers you

Didn't you read the explanation there? Irminsul completely erased the existence of the wanderer. What caused the wanderer to survive was fate, fate that Irminsul couldn't change.

Scaramouce was completely erased from reality. What we see now is only the wanderer who inherited Scaramouce's memories, nothing more.

The Clervie case is the clearest case to prove this. If it's just a memory, then only the memory is lost, not a part of her.

again, just being called "information" isnt im 2, and second im literally disagreeing with xiuhcoatl having AE1 bcs he was covered with phlogiston because
he became invulnerable with phlogiston
nothing says phlogiston is an abstract element
literally physically interactable by tapping his eyes which are his weak spots
phlogiston is just tool used for IM2 manip, literally this thread explains it

I have already provided evidence that phlogyston is information, you cannot refute that with more relevant evidence.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

agree except on Ineffa immo, like she is a robot so ofc she wont be able to die of age

A robot can die of malfunctioning or even straight-up corrosion due to age.

Anyway, Agree with the CRT.

 

[Mbpoops]

A robot can die of malfunctioning or even straight-up corrosion due to age.

.

Example: 2B from nier. Robots should just be default longevity ngl