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One Piece new chapter spoilers thread

KingTempest said:
half the verse as in the people on the profiles
the entirety of the straw hats scale above him in base, damn near all of egghead, etc.
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Half the verse scales above Kaidou right now so it doesn't even matter
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If you’re only talking about his base with no haki then maybe I'd agree for the characters who are currently relevant.

Based on your original statement I thought you arguing they scale above a serious Kaido, which I strongly disagree with. The scabbards could injure Kaido, but he wrecked them when he started taking it seriously.
 
Tipper17 said:
None of the straw hats barring Luffy are stronger than Kaido
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Zoro scarred his hybrid... Sanji should also be able to at least damage him with ifrit jambe, base kaido being affected/damaged via the techniques of the other strawhats doesn't seem too crazy still

Especially when we're seeing them affect high tier characters from some of their attacks... But there are definitely scaling issues somewhere, that's mostly because the verse has been halted so many times
 
I think most of the current straw hats can injure base Kaido going to exclude the Sniper King of fodder here but I doubt anyone outside the monster trio could beat even if he didn’t use Haki [aka pulling a Big Mom].

But realistically, if you stack the deck for the SH [w/ no monster trio] and throw them against Kaido with no Haki fighting as a df merchant, they wouldn’t do much better than the scabbards. Maybe if Nami hit him with Zeus, but she’s still a glass canon.

I like the context where some characters will be a bad matchup for another without necessarily being stronger. I think Kizaru vs Luffy is a good example of this. Gear 5 has major stamina issues, and which made him a bad matchup for Luffy. Kaido isn’t slow, but his desire to keep throwing hands with Luffy is part of why he lost.
 
KingTempest said:
We lost the plot
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Just rechecked the specific values. By AP most of the Straw Hats are 188.362 Exatons with a few exceptions. So I will retract my comparison to the Scabbards, but that still doesn’t mean much unless you restrict most of Kaido's abilities.
 
Warcury seemed to be far more durable, and likely more powerful, than Kaido going by their comparative performances against Luffy, but Warcury likely used to be far more powerful than the other elder stars, until Garling joined. 🙏
 
Tipper17 said:
Come on this is ridiculous
None of the straw hats barring Luffy are stronger than Kaido
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Here another reason why we need to revision the scaling, as there are far too many characters that scale to Top Tiers even when they have no business be even be comparable to those people.

An example its having Ace, Vista and Joze fully scale to Post Gura Blackbeard's Quakes, like do we forget that Pre Marineford Blackbeard could already scar Beginning of Series Shanks despite him be on guard, that literally better than anything the three ever did in Marineford.

Especially after see the last chapters we are talking about the same Shanks who already had Advance Conqueror Haki and was potrayed as already relative to Scopper Gaban (who i no need to tell you that he its at worse relative to Post Wano Base Luffy), that by himself would put Teach above any Top Commanders.

And this was before he even acquired the Gura Gura no Mi, and after he took that power he was able to fought Sengoku for an extend period of time, even when Garp step up to help him neither of them were able to immediatly overpower him.

Seriously speaking assuming the Small Planet level end of World Shaking Quake its accepted it should be far more restricted, something like this:

Pirate King Tier​

At least Small Planet level (>>5.452 Zettatons)

Joyboy | Imu | Roger | Prime Garp | Prime Whitebeard | Mihawk | Loki | Xebec | Harald | Emet | Warcury (Only Fengxi Form's Durability)

Emperor/Admiral Tier​

Small Planet level (>5.452 Zettatons)

Current Garp | Old Healthy Whitebeard | Current Shanks | Akainu/Sakazuki | Post Timeskip Blackbeard | Post Wano Gear 5th Luffy | Prime Sengoku | Oden (yes Current Zoro hasn't suprassed Oden, the only get close to his level with Asura) | Full Power Kaido | Prime Rayleigh | Prime Gaban | Aokiji/Kuzan | Kizaru/Borsalino | Post Lifespan Exhange Big Mom | Shiki | Greenbull/Aramaki | Issho/Fujitora | Kong | Current Sengoku | Post Gura/Marineford Blackbeard | Figarland Shamrock | Dragon | Ryuma | Post Egghead Garling | Onigashima Raid/Pre CoC Zoro (Only with Asura) | Post CoC Zoro (Only with Asura) | Bartolomeo (Only with Barriers) | Full Power/Pre Lifespan Exhange Big Mom

Top Commander+ Tier​

Small Planet level (>433 Exatons to <=5.452 Zettatons)

Post CoC Gear 4th Luffy | Old Sick/Marineford Whitebeard | Post Timeskip Gear 5th Bonney | Pre Gura Blackbeard | Beginning of Series Shanks | Current Rayleigh | Current Gaban | Five Elders (Mars, Saturn, Warcury, Ju Peter and Nusjuro) | Kuma | Hybrid Form Yamato | Onigashima Raid Law | Onigashima Raid Kidd | Post CoC Zoro | Brogy | Dorry | Post CoC Base Luffy | Dragon Form Kaido | Base Kaido | Base Big Mom | Benn | Marco | Prime Chinjao | Edward Weevil | Silver Axe | Captain John | Ganzui | Ochoku | Post Timeskip Awakening Form Lucci | Post Udon/Pre CoC Gear 4th Luffy | Post Genetic Awakening Sanji (Only with Ifrit Jambe) | Onigashima Raid/Pre CoC Zoro (Only with Unleashing Enma) | King (Only Durability) | Seraphims (Only Durability)

While when it come regular Top Commanders (or characters who can argue to be around that level) like Ace, Vista, Jozu, Kaido's All Stars, Big Mom's Sweet Commanders (yes they aren't Tobiroppo victims), Yasopp, Roux, Onigashima Raid Killer, Post Udon/Pre CoC Base Luffy, Onigashima Raid/Pre CoC Zoro, Jinbe, the Red Nine Scabbards (at least Denjiro, Ashura Doji, Inuarashi, Nekomamushi and potentially Kin'emon), Base Yamato, Post Timeskip Base Lucci, Post Timeskip Hybrid Form Kaku, Onigashima Raid Sanji (before and after awakening his Germa 66 genetic modifications), Post Timeskip/Dressrosa Gear 4th Luffy and etc. should either get excluded by that scaling or at best get a possibly Small Planet level (around baseline).
 
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Just a note that I think that the Yonkou are stronger than admirals and that Rayleigh and Gaban are equal to admirals. 🙏
 
Antvasima said:
Just a note that I think that the Yonkou are stronger than admirals and that Rayleigh and Gaban are equal to admirals. 🙏
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I also think Emperors (yes i prefer use that term) and in general stronger than Admirals, at least they use their Advance Conqueror Haki, but the gap its relatively small, enough that i think they coexist in the same Tier, and it make sense as both groups had always been treated as comparable.
 
Gear 5 Luffy handled Kizaru much easier than he did Kaidou, and Rayleigh was able to match
Kizaru. Luffy might have grown in power a bit since then though. 🙏
 
Antvasima said:
Gear 5 Luffy handled Kizaru much easier than he did Kaidou. Luffy might have grown in power a bit since then though. 🙏
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On one hand you can argue that Kizaru wasn't fully going all out due of the circumstances of killing people he care about, at the same time Kizaru has no reason to holding back against Luffy in particular (or at least assuming that he wasn't fight seriously), like with Kuzan against Garp. Same with Luffy to a degree as he was more focus on keeping Vegapunk safe rather than going all out against the admiral, and we know that in Gear 5th Luffy tend to screw around even when not necessary like how he did with Lucci.

So no matter how you view it, i think its simply safer to assume that Emperors and Admirals are very close and who win doesn't depend of who its stronger/faster (as that can't be prove at 100%) but rather on the situation as well as the characters's moveset and which would work better.
 
Well, I strongly disagree. Akainu has likely grown in power to Yonkou level for narrative purposes, but the other admirals are clearly weaker, or at least weaker than Kaidou, Blackbeard, Gear 5 Luffy, and especially Shanks. I could see them individually being roughly half as dangerous as the Yonkou in sum total, but by our standards that doesn't make much difference in terms of tiering. 🙏
 
Anyway, does anybody else think that Sanji should awaken Conqueror's Haki during the Elbaph storyline? And if so, what should it be based on? A motivation to see the All Blue is pretty lackluster comparatively speaking. I think that his real true core motivation is to protect all innocent women (and possibly children) in his world from abuse and oppression. 🙏
 
Antvasima said:
Anyway, does anybody else think that Sanji should awaken Conqueror's Haki during the Elbaph storyline? And if so, what should it be based on?
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Like you say if Sanji does manage to awake Advance Conqueror Haki he would either be to defeat Sommers and likely based on actual genuine love (as opposite to Sommers which its twisted/corrupted), as i don't see why the All Blue would be brought in this situation (unless Sommers start mocking Sanji).
 
Antvasima said:
Akainu has likely grown in power to Yonkou level for narrative purposes, but the other admirals are clearly weaker, or at least weaker than Kaidou, Blackbeard, Gear 5 Luffy, and especially Shanks.
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I never say that there can't be clear gap in power/speed, only that they are relatively small.

Big Mom and Issho are definitely inferior to Shanks, yet i don't think the latter can defeat this two with anything less than high to extreme diff.

Aka i doubt a single Divine Departure its going to be enough unlike with Kidd.
 
Well, the thing with Sanji is that outwardly he recurrently seems like a buffoonish "simp", but like I think his sister said, at heart he is extremely kind, and he has a background of being a severely abused/bullied child, so I think that his key to activating conqueror's haki is likely his will to protect innocent women and children from going through as bad or worse experiences as he endured. 🙏
 
How is Mihawk in PK tier but not Shanks?

And how is Issho even fighting Shanks who can nullify observeration haki?

And what planet are Greenbull and Issho pushing yonko level when Shanks who you have in Yonko tier made Greenbull twerk with haki alone. The same Greenbull is portrayed as relative if not superior to Issho?

Any justification for Oldbeard even being a relevant places him above Garp and Mihawk. Sengoku claiming WB is the strongest places him explicitly above Garp unless you want me to buy into Sengoku not knowing how strong Garp is?

There’s no sense to this scaling.
 
Hasty12345 said:
How is Mihawk in PK tier but not Shanks?
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Considering all the hype and his statements about he the Strongest Swordman, and that Shanks its a Swordman, its pretty clear who is stronger.

And no only because he could replicate a Divine Departure it doesn't necessarely prove that Shanks its on PK Tier.

Hasty12345 said:
And how is Issho even fighting Shanks who can nullify observeration haki?
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And how this has anything to do with Issho's strength? Shanks be able to nullify Future Sight doesn't mean that Issho isn't comparable to the other Admirals.

Hasty12345 said:
And what planet are Greenbull and Issho pushing yonko level when Shanks who you have in Yonko tier made Greenbull twerk with haki alone. The same Greenbull is portrayed as relative if not superior to Issho?
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Aside the fact that Greenbull wasn't expecting Shanks to show up, he was not in a good position in general as he was already going to fight the Straw Hats.

As much he was confident of defeating Luffy (even if its was unlikely to happen considering that he was going to face a lot of resistance), is not like he ever impled that it would had been an easy fight, especially when he state that the only reason the Marines hasn't invade Wano was due of Kaido's presence.

So considering that he was already putting himself on a serious risk with a frontal assault, facing two Emperors at the same time would had been too much even for him.

Hasty12345 said:
Any justification for Oldbeard even being a relevant places him above Garp and Mihawk. Sengoku claiming WB is the strongest places him explicitly above Garp unless you want me to buy into Sengoku not knowing how strong Garp is?
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I actually have Mihawk above Oldbeard, and for Old Garp i think its fair to assume they are very relative in strength, enough that i don't think we can currently determinate which of the two its stronger.

Hasty12345 said:
There’s no sense to this scaling.
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The scaling i proposed its just a rough estimate, i didn't even put any > < = on purpose as that can be discussed later.
 
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I agree about that Garp and healthy Whitebeard are probably equal.

Also, given that young Roger and Garp look similar, were equally strong, and are both parts of the D.(/Davy?) family, is there any chance that they will be revealed to be brothers? 🙏
 
Stefano4444 said:
Considering all the hype and his statements about he the Strongest Swordman, and that Shanks its a Swordman, its pretty clear who is stronger.

And no only because he could replicate a Divine Departure it doesn't necessarely prove that Shanks its on PK Tier.
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So you have Mihawk > Shanks due to statements despite the fact that Mihawk has fought Shanks in at least 12 years but you have Oldbeard below Mihawk despite having just as much statements for being above everyone.

Statements you completely ignore again to put Garp above Oldbeard…

You’re not being consistent. You’re cherry picking statements, and if Oldbeard > Shanks then simply being above Shanks isn’t grounds for PK level and Mihawk has no argument for being in a tier above the Yonko.

Your guy Mihawk has been stated to be rivalled by Vista, so as far as his “hype” goes, it’s fairly lacklustre.

As for Greenbull, he took an acoc attack right to the head and ignored it. Shank’s haki detransformed him and made him cry in pain. If that’s not clear portrayal of superiority over Greenbull, then nothing is. Coc haki typically only works through intimidation, you ant “off guard” someone with coc haki, MF demonstrated this when Luffy used it by accident and only the weakest fodder dropped. Those who were strong enough ignored it completely, not sure why all of a sudden we’re changing the rules for Greenbull.
 
Shanks seems to have less raw power than characters like Kaidou or Harald, but to be more dangerous/deadly than them due to his sheer precision, efficiency, and extremely advanced prediction haki. 🙏
 
Hasty12345 said:
So you have Mihawk > Shanks due to statements despite the fact that Mihawk has fought Shanks in at least 12 years but you have Oldbeard below Mihawk despite having just as much statements for being above everyone.
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Like i say the scaling its just a rough estimate, it isn't something that can't be changed or its something absolute that no one can't disagree.

However despite all of that, i do still believe that in the case of Mihawk i think him be more closer to Prime WB, Prime Garp and Roger its more believable than Shanks.

And beside his title (as that alone can't prove much as Kaido and WB also have titles referring them as the "strongest"), we know that he one of few characters (like Ryuma) who could turn his blade back, something as neither people on the caliber of Shanks, Big Mom or Oden ever did.

Beside as the Zoro's endgame boss and knowing how much Zoro its glazed by Oda, i wouldn't be suprise if Mihawk does genuinely be conferm to be comparable to them.

Hasty12345 said:
Statements you completely ignore again to put Garp above Oldbeard…
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Again i didn't but any > < = on purpose as the exact scaling between characters within the same time can be up to discussion, thought as Ant say i think its make sense so simply have the two equal or near equal.

Hasty12345 said:
Your guy Mihawk has been stated to be rivalled by Vista, so as far as his “hype” goes
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You are really going to use Vista of all things to prove that Mihawk can't be PK level?

Hasty12345 said:
As for Greenbull, he took an acoc attack right to the head and ignored it.
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From Base Yamato, who its like relative to Post CoC Base Luffy.

Hasty12345 said:
Shank’s haki detransformed him and made him cry in pain. If that’s not clear portrayal of superiority over Greenbull, then nothing is.
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Greenbull was stunded sure but it didn't seen like he was damaged, beside while i agree on Shanks its stronger than Greenbull, its not a massive gap.

I doubt that if they actually fought, Shanks would have simply oneshotted and speedblitz him like with Kidd, he would had to put far more effort into defeating him.
 
I don’t think Kaido got the worst deal in terms of being power crept. That award has to go to Big Mom and her crew. It’s kinda funny, she could’ve won if she fought smarter, and both Kidd+Law still only won through BFR plus bombs. Katakuri got mega power crept too which is so funny, when Big Mom is supposed to have one of the strongest crews. Perospero probably had better feats in Wano than Kat.
 
I mentioned this in the general discussion thread, but our Lifting ratings for One Piece aren’t consistent. Some of the commanders and Yonko tiers have Class P lifting, and others have Class E. Luffy's Gear 5th is Class Z, but others who scale don’t share the same rating.

Also, the verse page doesn’t have many calcs in Tier 5, which makes the scaling notes overly confusing. The highest calc for a character's feat is 5-C from Blackbeard, but there’s a gap in the explanations. Low 5-B and 5-B are well explained, but I’m having a hard time figuring out the jump from 5-C to Low 5-B.
 
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