Warhammer 40K Discussion

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Anyone have a draft for a general Orks page?

boop

 

[Netoriman]

So much Titus stuff recently.
Secret Level
500 Worlds, then 4 novels for him and a tabletop game, then SM3.
Wish Bungie gave this love to their space marine..

Anyone here know if the mobile games are canon, there is a F ton of them

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Could someone add a link to Aethyr explanation on the verse page ?

Aethyr Manipulation

As Volans, the first Patriarch of the Colleges of Magic so aptly sums it up, the Aethyr is the Void, the final element of existence - the intangible element that has no visible or quantifiable form in it's own right. It has no dimension, mass or volume yet is still everywhere. It has no...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Could someone add a link to Aethyr explanation on the verse page ?

Aethyr Manipulation

As Volans, the first Patriarch of the Colleges of Magic so aptly sums it up, the Aethyr is the Void, the final element of existence - the intangible element that has no visible or quantifiable form in it's own right. It has no dimension, mass or volume yet is still everywhere. It has no...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Nah that is for WH/AoS, this is 40K. Don't ask why the 2 verses are separated and not merged. Asked that got vague reply.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Nah that is for WH/AoS, this is 40K. Don't ask why the 2 verses are separated and not merged. Asked that got vague reply.

But The Emperor has it and he is exclusive to 40K, right ?

Aethyr Manipulation, Immortality Negation, and Regeneration Negation (Likely High-Godly; Both his flaming sword and he himself can permanently nullify the resurrection and regeneration of daemons, erasing them permanently from existence. Daemons, like their gods, are 'Aethyric entities', the Aethyr at its core. Can also nullify the psychic powers of others through sheer force of will, similar to weaker psykers)

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

It was stated by @DaReaperMan that they share the cosmology. So why is Aethyr still limited to WF ?

Warhammer Fantasy: Souls and minds=Aethyr

sigh Y'know I really didn't want to have to do this, but here we go. Please note that while 40K shares a cosmology and literally consistent meaning of a soul, I don't want to add another 50 or so profiles to this, so their supporters can do it their damn selves. "Everyones soul in Warhammer is...

vsbattles.com

 

[Naito-desu]

God tiers get all the Warp stuff, but given how fundamentally different the Winds of Magic are from Psyker hax, they stay in their separate verses

 

[DaReaperMan]

It was stated by @DaReaperMan that they share the cosmology. So why is Aethyr still limited to WF ?

Warhammer Fantasy: Souls and minds=Aethyr

sigh Y'know I really didn't want to have to do this, but here we go. Please note that while 40K shares a cosmology and literally consistent meaning of a soul, I don't want to add another 50 or so profiles to this, so their supporters can do it their damn selves. "Everyones soul in Warhammer is...

vsbattles.com

Their souls would be Aethyr, but Psyker stuff and mage stuff is very different.

 

[PresentTrunks]

I'm planning a massive Warhammer 40k revision, such as scaling heavies and super-heavies to melta-weapons (they're equipped with explicitly 8-B melta weapons and other armaments that can melt a tank with one-shot, like macro-plasma incinerators), and generally adding information from hundreds of new works (including Ashes of the Imperium).

I've still got literally thousands of scans that I'm slowly adding to these sandboxes and more that I'm planning in the future.

I'd appreciate it if anyone who cares could give suggestions, comments or assistance as I add to it, especially if you have Crusade: Pariah Nexus (I can't get that book anywhere without forking out a small fortune and my firstborn).

 

[Naito-desu]

Tbh anything to get Space Marines back above Helldivers so I'm down

 

[StalkerCh]

Guys can you explain why Warp is 1A? While non 1A characters can enter it by themselves?

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Guys can you explain why Warp is 1A? While non 1A characters can enter it by themselves?

Yeah same non-1-A get atomized and warped after walk without protection, same non-1A using people who have connection to that 1-A realm to guide their ships

That an object Non 1-A move inside of 1-A structure isn’t an anti-Feat if those character not are affecting the 1-A realm, hell one of requeriments for 1-A can be if a realm is Vaster than non-1-A realms, thus that mean 1-A realm obligatory have to contain non 1-A structure

In marvel Eternity have non-1A people inside himself, that dont mean he isn’t 1A

 

[StalkerCh]

Yeah same non-1-A get atomized and warped after walk without protection, same non-1A using people who have connection to that 1-A realm to guide their ships

That an object Non 1-A move inside of 1-A structure isn’t an anti-Feat if those character not are affecting the 1-A realm, hell one of requeriments for 1-A can be if a realm is Vaster than non-1-A realms, thus that mean 1-A realm obligatory have to contain non 1-A structure

In marvel Eternity have non-1A people inside himself, that dont mean he isn’t 1A

There is reality fiction trancendence between 1A and lower tiers. If we count warp as 1A, then real space must be fictional for it. And lower reality character cannot enter higher reality realm, unless a 1A being let them to enter. This isnt X is bigger than Y situation. It is reality difference. Also, humans used warp during DAOT, maybe they had outerversal warp drives or something

 

[PresentTrunks]

For entering the Warp, IIRC characters breech the interstitial domain where the Webway exists to enter the Warp, rather than damaging the fabric of the Warp itself.

For starships being able to travel there, it's Gellar fields. They literally repel the unreality of the Warp using stuff like dreaming Psykers, Empyric runes and other magic nonsense, allowing ships to safely ride its currents. I have no idea how crews could even experience time in the Warp, otherwise, since physical dimensions (or at least most of them, depending on the source) don't exist.

• ‘Countercyclic forming ahead,’ warned Lutar, calmly voicing his analysis of the data continuously streaming in from the warp surveyors. Lines of numerals and runes filled his screen like isobars on a meteorological display, except that these represented the density of warp energy through four dimensions, none of which actually existed within warp space. Covered in a layer of reality generated by the warp fields, the Grand Endeavour sensed its surroundings by measuring the amount of ward energy required to keep the barrier intact, and thereby the corresponding amount of empyric pressure trying to break through. ‘Magnitude three point two, for a drift average of three per cent.’ - The High Kâhl's Oath

For human Psykers, Daemon Princes, etc, it can be explained by the fact that the Warp explicitly makes them partially or completely unrestricted by physical laws, or that they exist in places like the Eye of Terror and Maelstrom (where realspace and the Warp overlap, rather than being either or) rather than the Warp itself.

We've seen archaeotech Warp Drives in novels like The Silent War and even on some of the Legiones Astartes vessels (like many of the Great Crusade era Death Guard's heavy capital ships). To my knowledge, they're only portrayed as basically just better, more compact Imperial Warp Drives which can be scaled up to enormous sizes, not any kind of 1-A bs.

 

[StalkerCh]

For entering the Warp, IIRC characters breech the interstitial domain where the Webway exists to enter the Warp, rather than damaging the fabric of the Warp itself.

For starships being able to travel there, it's Gellar fields. They literally repel the unreality of the Warp using stuff like dreaming Psykers, Empyric runes and other magic nonsense, allowing ships to safely ride its currents. I have no idea how crews could even experience time in the Warp, otherwise, since physical dimensions (or at least most of them, depending on the source) don't exist.

• ‘Countercyclic forming ahead,’ warned Lutar, calmly voicing his analysis of the data continuously streaming in from the warp surveyors. Lines of numerals and runes filled his screen like isobars on a meteorological display, except that these represented the density of warp energy through four dimensions, none of which actually existed within warp space. Covered in a layer of reality generated by the warp fields, the Grand Endeavour sensed its surroundings by measuring the amount of ward energy required to keep the barrier intact, and thereby the corresponding amount of empyric pressure trying to break through. ‘Magnitude three point two, for a drift average of three per cent.’ - The High Kâhl's Oath

For human Psykers, Daemon Princes, etc, it can be explained by the fact that the Warp explicitly makes them partially or completely unrestricted by physical laws, or that they exist in places like the Eye of Terror and Maelstrom (where realspace and the Warp overlap, rather than being either or) rather than the Warp itself.

We've seen archaeotech Warp Drives in novels like The Silent War and even on some of the Legiones Astartes vessels (like many of the Great Crusade era Death Guard's heavy capital ships). To my knowledge, they're only portrayed as basically just better, more compact Imperial Warp Drives which can be scaled up to enormous sizes, not any kind of 1-A bs.

So either warp gives psyker 1A hax or DAOT humanity made outerversal tech somehow. Kinda contradicts with my understanding R>F trancendence. Is there any warp based entity providing this capability to them? Also does 1A key of characters work on only warp? So outside of it they dont?

 

[PresentTrunks]

So either warp gives psyker 1A hax

Surprisingly, this isn't even far-fetched, but it's not particularly useable AP.

The Warp is influenced by living minds as a whole, since it is a place of psychic energy, meaning that countless billions can affect the Warp on a galactic scale. Wars have even been known to heavily influence the tides of the Warp. A Psyker (by human standards) is just a mind who affects the Warp more strongly than a normal human, allowing them to manipulate it.

• ‘It does not matter,’ said Natasé. ‘We are talking here not of sorcery, or what you refer to as psychic power, but of faith. Faith is the most powerful force in this galaxy. It requires no proof to convince. It grants conviction to those who believe. It brings hope to the hopeless, and where it flourishes, reality changes. A single mind connected strongly to the warp can bend the laws of our universe, but a billion minds, a trillion minds, all believing the same thing? It matters little if they are psykers or not. The influence of so many souls has a profound effect. My kind birthed a god. Perhaps now it is your turn. Faith is your race’s greatest power. It is also the greatest peril to us all. It is the faith of every human being that moulds reality. Psychic power washes through our existence, heightening everything. It is their despair that threatens us. You have said to me before, Roboute Guilliman, that you will save my people, yet it is your people who are damning us all. They damnyou, too. For all your will, how can your single soul stand against the collected belief of your species? [...]' - Dark Imperium: Godblight
• ‘Chapter Master, the warp is in a period of severe flux and turbulence, and has been for some months. If we took to it now, we could be in the Kargad System in a matter of days, or it might take weeks, or years, or we might re-enter normal space somewhere a thousand light years from our intended destination. There is simply no telling. The Wendakhen campaign is stirring up the immaterium at the moment, and rendering it extremely volatile, as all wars do.’ - Dark Hunters: Umbra Sumus

Additionally, Psykers are strengthened by proximity to the Warp and by absorbing Warp energy; within realspace they violate the laws of physics to the degree that the strongest can break Battle Titans, within the Warp entire worlds live and die at their whims.

DAOT humanity made outerversal tech somehow.

Strictly hax in terms of space travel, as I showed. However, we've evidence and even some demonstrations (like a Man of Iron erasing a chunk of the Warp) that they could manipulate the Warp on a somewhat large scale through technology, so also yes.

Is there any warp based entity providing this capability to them?

If you mean R>F, the Chaos Gods are often presented as stand-ins for the players of Warhammer 40k, but that's nothing official.

I have no attachment to the 1-A rating, personally. But, I think there's a case for Low 1-A if we do drop 1-A.

Also does 1A key of characters work on only warp? So outside of it they dont?

Only within the Warp, where Daemons and other Warp-powered entities are much more powerful. For instance, the Webway is closer in proximity to the Warp than realspace is, so Imperial forces had a much harder time countering the Daemon incursion that Magnus caused because of their enhanced abilities.

 

[StalkerCh]

Surprisingly, this isn't even far-fetched, but it's not particularly useable AP.

The Warp is influenced by living minds as a whole, since it is a place of psychic energy, meaning that countless billions can affect the Warp on a galactic scale. Wars have even been known to heavily influence the tides of the Warp. A Psyker (by human standards) is just a mind who affects the Warp more strongly than a normal human, allowing them to manipulate it.

• ‘It does not matter,’ said Natasé. ‘We are talking here not of sorcery, or what you refer to as psychic power, but of faith. Faith is the most powerful force in this galaxy. It requires no proof to convince. It grants conviction to those who believe. It brings hope to the hopeless, and where it flourishes, reality changes. A single mind connected strongly to the warp can bend the laws of our universe, but a billion minds, a trillion minds, all believing the same thing? It matters little if they are psykers or not. The influence of so many souls has a profound effect. My kind birthed a god. Perhaps now it is your turn. Faith is your race’s greatest power. It is also the greatest peril to us all. It is the faith of every human being that moulds reality. Psychic power washes through our existence, heightening everything. It is their despair that threatens us. You have said to me before, Roboute Guilliman, that you will save my people, yet it is your people who are damning us all. They damnyou, too. For all your will, how can your single soul stand against the collected belief of your species? [...]' - Dark Imperium: Godblight
• ‘Chapter Master, the warp is in a period of severe flux and turbulence, and has been for some months. If we took to it now, we could be in the Kargad System in a matter of days, or it might take weeks, or years, or we might re-enter normal space somewhere a thousand light years from our intended destination. There is simply no telling. The Wendakhen campaign is stirring up the immaterium at the moment, and rendering it extremely volatile, as all wars do.’ - Dark Hunters: Umbra Sumus

Additionally, Psykers are strengthened by proximity to the Warp and by absorbing Warp energy; within realspace they violate the laws of physics to the degree that the strongest can break Battle Titans, within the Warp entire worlds live and die at their whims.

Strictly hax in terms of space travel, as I showed. However, we've evidence and even some demonstrations (like a Man of Iron erasing a chunk of the Warp) that they could manipulate the Warp on a somewhat large scale through technology, so also yes.

If you mean R>F, the Chaos Gods are often presented as stand-ins for the players of Warhammer 40k, but that's nothing official.

I have no attachment to the 1-A rating, personally. But, I think there's a case for Low 1-A if we do drop 1-A.

Only within the Warp, where Daemons and other Warp-powered entities are much more powerful. For instance, the Webway is closer in proximity to the Warp than realspace is, so Imperial forces had a much harder time countering the Daemon incursion that Magnus caused because of their enhanced abilities.

Thank you for this explanation. I do also with Low 1A, since lower being were able to enter warp without help higher reality beings. Considering Warp is non dimensional and non temporal but do not posses r>f transcendence, we can assume it is low 1A rather than 1A. It also explains why chaos cannot enter realspace since they have non dimensional existence.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Thank you for this explanation. I do also with Low 1A, since lower being were able to enter warp without help higher reality beings. Considering Warp is non dimensional and non temporal but do not posses r>f transcendence, we can assume it is low 1A rather than 1A. It also explains why chaos cannot enter realspace since they have non dimensional existence.

That isn't a reason enough for a downgrade, like said before Galactus when he was a mortal called Galan in the sixth Cosmos, he was able to go into the Ultraflow(Sixth cosmos versión of Superflow) and later into Neutral zone despite both are R>F to his existence, 1-A not necessary needed R>F any way, just trascendent the concept of Dimensions

Chaos cannot becuase the rules of the great game

 

[StalkerCh]

That isn't a reason enough for a downgrade, like said before Galactus when he was a mortal called Galan in the sixth Cosmos, he was able to go into the Ultraflow(Sixth cosmos versión of Superflow) and later into Neutral zone despite both are R>F to his existence, 1-A not necessary needed R>F any way, just trascendent the concept of Dimensions

Chaos cannot becuase the rules of the great game

Concept of dimensions only gives low 1A. Unless it is R>F kind of trancendence.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

This is from

Tiering System FAQ

A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Qualitative superiority is being whose superiority over lesser things that involves no element of quantity, or amount, in any manner whatsoever. It, instead, hinges entirely on the nature of the character's existence and ontology. In general, all characters with such superiority over lesser things are 1-A

The crucial thing to note about 1-A and above is that these tiers (Low 1-A and below), in the relevant respect here, are completely discontinuous with lower ones. Therefore, no extension or add-ups of things from a lower reality (i.e. No quantitative increases) can measure up to a qualitatively greater plane of existence, and this applies to physical strength no less than it does to size. Thus, even if they are being boosted by a force from the corresponding level, a character from a lesser reality can't have qualitatively greater physical strength. The entity could not produce such a thing in the same way it could not produce a spatial object that is larger than itself.

That said, while they cannot be at this level by having their own physical power increased, they might be endowed with, or awaken, metaphysical attributes that allow them to imitate and influence things on a 1-A and higher scale. For example, consider the following scenario: A cosmology that includes both a physical level and an "informational" level that both transcends the physical and holds the "coding" of all the things in it. An entity capable of influencing the informational level then "locks" a certain person's code, and makes them unable to be interfered with even by other beings on a similar level to itself. This alteration to the metaphysical make-up of the person then emanates downwards into their physical body, and likewise makes them unable to be harmed by anything in the physical world

This is from https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Beyond-Dimensional_Existence

As a default, statements of being "above dimensions" are set at Low 1-A, and the same is applied to statements indicating superiority over "All of space and time," and similar. However, if they are applied to realms that can be inferred to surpass the very composition of the lower reality (e.g. Realms that are, themselves, non-composite, such as conceptual domains, or often, voids of nothingness), then 1-A is the most appropriate rating for them.
Keep in mind that Type 3 Beyond-Dimensional Existence is not simply a combination of a non-dimensional state of existence and greater raw power than all dimensional structures in a cosmology – though that is a necessary condition to qualify for it, it is not a sufficient one. Instead, the non-dimensional state of existence must be the direct cause of the character/realm's superiority over dimensions. A simple example being a realm that is stated to lack space, time and physicality entirely, but is nonetheless shown as being "vaster" than physical reality in some way. Common imagery of this includes the universe as a small object encompassed in a wider backdrop.
A void of nothingness is not necessarily 1-A; it is only 1-A if it encompasses or is vaster than reality in a qualitative manner. For example, imagine a void so distinct from reality that it lacks space-time, not because it’s simply empty, but because it is beyond dimensionality and space-time itself. In comparison, the reality we know would be even lesser than a drop of water in an ocean. In a context like this, the void possesses qualitative superiority, which is why it's referred to as a void of nothingness. no composition from our reality holds significance or meaning within it.

Type 3: Characters who exceed dimensionality through a qualitative superiority over lesser things, which is to say: Ontologically surpassing all the contents of a lower reality, and being above their physical composition and differentiation. Characters of this nature don't simply lack all physicality and composition (As in Type 1), but surpass it altogether, being of a wholly superior nature that is not reachable by lower states of existence. But as stated at the beginning of the page, these beings can still operate on a higher notion of dimensionality that is fundamental to their own nature and reality.


The warp follow the above

 

[StalkerCh]

This is from

Tiering System FAQ

A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Qualitative superiority is being whose superiority over lesser things that involves no element of quantity, or amount, in any manner whatsoever. It, instead, hinges entirely on the nature of the character's existence and ontology. In general, all characters with such superiority over lesser things are 1-A

The crucial thing to note about 1-A and above is that these tiers (Low 1-A and below), in the relevant respect here, are completely discontinuous with lower ones. Therefore, no extension or add-ups of things from a lower reality (i.e. No quantitative increases) can measure up to a qualitatively greater plane of existence, and this applies to physical strength no less than it does to size. Thus, even if they are being boosted by a force from the corresponding level, a character from a lesser reality can't have qualitatively greater physical strength. The entity could not produce such a thing in the same way it could not produce a spatial object that is larger than itself.

That said, while they cannot be at this level by having their own physical power increased, they might be endowed with, or awaken, metaphysical attributes that allow them to imitate and influence things on a 1-A and higher scale. For example, consider the following scenario: A cosmology that includes both a physical level and an "informational" level that both transcends the physical and holds the "coding" of all the things in it. An entity capable of influencing the informational level then "locks" a certain person's code, and makes them unable to be interfered with even by other beings on a similar level to itself. This alteration to the metaphysical make-up of the person then emanates downwards into their physical body, and likewise makes them unable to be harmed by anything in the physical world

This is from https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Beyond-Dimensional_Existence

As a default, statements of being "above dimensions" are set at Low 1-A, and the same is applied to statements indicating superiority over "All of space and time," and similar. However, if they are applied to realms that can be inferred to surpass the very composition of the lower reality (e.g. Realms that are, themselves, non-composite, such as conceptual domains, or often, voids of nothingness), then 1-A is the most appropriate rating for them.
Keep in mind that Type 3 Beyond-Dimensional Existence is not simply a combination of a non-dimensional state of existence and greater raw power than all dimensional structures in a cosmology – though that is a necessary condition to qualify for it, it is not a sufficient one. Instead, the non-dimensional state of existence must be the direct cause of the character/realm's superiority over dimensions. A simple example being a realm that is stated to lack space, time and physicality entirely, but is nonetheless shown as being "vaster" than physical reality in some way. Common imagery of this includes the universe as a small object encompassed in a wider backdrop.
A void of nothingness is not necessarily 1-A; it is only 1-A if it encompasses or is vaster than reality in a qualitative manner. For example, imagine a void so distinct from reality that it lacks space-time, not because it’s simply empty, but because it is beyond dimensionality and space-time itself. In comparison, the reality we know would be even lesser than a drop of water in an ocean. In a context like this, the void possesses qualitative superiority, which is why it's referred to as a void of nothingness. no composition from our reality holds significance or meaning within it.

Type 3: Characters who exceed dimensionality through a qualitative superiority over lesser things, which is to say: Ontologically surpassing all the contents of a lower reality, and being above their physical composition and differentiation. Characters of this nature don't simply lack all physicality and composition (As in Type 1), but surpass it altogether, being of a wholly superior nature that is not reachable by lower states of existence. But as stated at the beginning of the page, these beings can still operate on a higher notion of dimensionality that is fundamental to their own nature and reality.


The warp follow the above

So Warp has no R>F and non 1A can affect it somehow by themselves. BDE-3 is not really convincing to me since appearantly it doesnt prove that dimensional one is seen as fictional comprared to superior one.

Tier Low 1-A (Low Outerverse level):
As a general rule-of-thumb, statements of being "above dimensions" and the like, whenever validly indicating a superiority over higher dimensions, fall under this tier without further context. See here for more information

Low 1A has this. This is why I think warp should go here. Anyways this tiering system is weird. It say you cannot do anything to 1A object, but then proceeds to say you can. Self negating.

 

[PresentTrunks]

Feel free to PM me if you plan to make a downgrade thread on this and need justification an alternative rating. I've compiled some scans on the dimensional nature of the Warp.

 

[StalkerCh]

Feel free to PM me if you plan to make a downgrade thread on this and need justification an alternative rating. I've compiled some scans on the dimensional nature of the Warp.

No worries I wont downgrade the verse, I lack motivation and time for this. My reason of asking these to understand the scaling of the verse itself.

 

[PresentTrunks]

It's not complete (no ratings yet, besides a Vulcan feat), but this is kind of what I have in mind for the Primarchs.

Justifications for scaling, new feats, updated information, etc.

Feel free to give any criticisms or suggestions, or make any small edits.

I'm planning similar revisions for the entire verse.

boop

I'm actually planning one.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

It's not complete (no ratings yet, besides a Vulcan feat), but this is kind of what I have in mind for the Primarchs.

Justifications for scaling, new feats, updated information, etc.

Feel free to give any criticisms or suggestions, or make any small edits.

I'm planning similar revisions for the entire verse.

I'm actually planning one.

Mostly seems fine just skimming it but imo psychic powers and the daemon princes (and by daemon princes I basically just mean angron) should have "typically insert tier up to insert tier" cause for them they straight up have feats for higher tiers on top of what power it typically is. Also the mftl+ perception speed

 

[PresentTrunks]

I'm planning on removing that void shield feat for Angron, since (assuming it's even a valid feat, and he didn't just move too slowly) there's genuinely no evidence that the Malakbael shield was starship-grade rather than something like Titan or Ordinatus-grade. He's pretty consistently around the level of Battle Titans, and even got severely harmed by an orbital defence laser and lesser weaponry in the same battle.

I'm planning on listing rituals (like the Large Star level stuff) as separate and removing a lot of it, if that's what you're referring to.

I'll add that.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

I'm planning on removing that void shield feat for Angron, since (assuming it's even a valid feat, and he didn't just move too slowly) there's genuinely no evidence that the Malakbael shield was starship-grade rather than something like Titan or Ordinatus-grade. He's pretty consistently around the level of Battle Titans, and even got severely harmed by an orbital defence laser and lesser weaponry in the same battle.

Even then titan grade void shields are also higher than the current stat unless you're planning on changing that. (I also have a few feats that could upgrade primarchs into tier 7 but honestly I forgot about those almost entirely lol)

I'm planning on listing rituals (like the Large Star level stuff) as separate and removing a lot of it, if that's what you're referring to.

Fair

 

[PresentTrunks]

I'm planning on upgrading Titans, in fact. Hopefully I'll also be able to upgrade even Leman Russ battle tanks to 8-B, since they have a lot of Melta weapon scaling (not to mention the fact that their secondary weapons are often multi-meltas).

I'd like to hear those tier 7 feats. I currently have 1 for Vulkan which doesn't particularly scale to the other Primarchs.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

I'm planning on upgrading Titans, in fact. Hopefully I'll also be able to upgrade even Leman Russ battle tanks to 8-B, since they have a lot of Melta weapon scaling (not to mention the fact that their secondary weapons are often multi-meltas).

I'd like to hear those tier 7 feats. I currently have 1 for Vulkan which doesn't particularly scale to the other Primarchs.

Had a few random calcs I made years ago off of feats I found or were sent to me:

• This (May not scale cause of the warp shenanigans that were probably involved)
• Vulkan feat
• Other Vulkan feat (may not scale cause we never see him again after that but ehhhhh)
• Mortarion blowing up right infront of the Khan and he survives (reason is mostly cause he was nearly dead anyways but technically survives this but barely)

Think there were others but I can't remember them right now.

 

[PresentTrunks]

I've recalculated the first Vulkan one as Low 7-C, but I'll be sure to look into the rest.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

I've recalculated the first Vulkan one as Low 7-C, but I'll be sure to look into the rest.

Was it via a different magnitude for the earthquake?

Also I made these years ago so they may not be up to date assuming some standards changed (or even that good but eh)

 

[PresentTrunks]

Yes

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:PresentTrunks/Vulkan_Destroys_a_Chimney_-_Warhammer_40k

 

[PresentTrunks]

On another note, Wraithknights are said to be hundreds of times stronger and more destructive than an Aspect Warrior. Should we just consider this to refer to weapons that every Aspect Warrior has, like Shuriken and las- weaponry, or would it also include weapons that more specialised Craftworld Factions typically use (like the Striking Scorpions' Chainswords, the Fire Dragons' Fusion Blasters, and certain power weapons) and heavier weaponry (like Starcannons)?

 

[PresentTrunks]

Apologies, I forgot about this.

Adding to these, I found a couple other feats, including Vulcan straight up destroying a city of unknown size in Mercy of the Dragon.

This (May not scale cause of the warp shenanigans that were probably involved)

The parameters and context of the calc seems fine, since there are multiple instances where Primarchs fight near Warp energy without being amped (like Guilliman and The Lion in the Ruinstorm), but I'm not sure about them scaling to the total value of the calc since this happened due to an extended fight and Injustice was downgraded for similar reasons in the past.

Other Vulkan feat

I genuinely have no idea how to scale this because Vulkan explicitly was destroyed physically by the same level of energy, yet The Beast somehow survived.

It's worth noting that The Beast has an aegis shield in The Last Son of Dorn which interacts with power weapons, but is never mentioned in The Beast Must Die, so maybe that can explain things.

Mortarion blowing up right infront of the Khan and he survives

This seems fine, and the Primarchs don't seem to have special resistance to the effects of Vortex grenades and Void Shield displacement given Titandeath. It may even be higher because displacing things into the Warp atomises them.

• According to the systems of his golden plate, the void shields were still engaged, and at high levels of potency. Sanguinius was coming in too fast. He would trip their displacement reaction. If he were fortunate, he would be atomised as his being was displaced into the warp. If he were not, he would arrive there alive. - Titandeath

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Should Ultramarines be given Supernatural Luck? Their armor is blue after all and many of their victories can be explained by extreme luck!

 

[Nonynho]

been reading Siege of Terra, finally at the second to last book and i noticed this

No, less. His eyes blink open. He doesn’t realise where he is for a moment. He doesn’t know what’s going on. The impact has knocked all sense from him, and he’ll register the pain before anything else. That wing’s broken. Ribs too. The ankle you swung him by. Pain will be flooding him as he wakes. You see him wince, a convulsion of his chest, his face screwing up in a grimace. He chokes, coughs blood. It dribbles off his lips.
Is he done? Surely, he’s done. Nobody–
You give him some credit, grudgingly. He’s not giving up. He tries to rollonto his side, but the grinding pain of the broken wing stops him. He flops back. He rolls the other way. He tries to rise.
He makes it onto his hands and knees. He gropes for his fallen sword. It’s just out of reach, along with most of his broken hopes and the memories that were smashed out of him.
Go on. Get up. Let’s see if he can. Hunched over, broken wing dragging likea limp ermine cloak behind him, he crawls. He makes no sound. Not one whimper or groan of pain. That’s impressive. You balance Worldbreaker, ready.
He’s found the sword. He clutches it tightly by the grip, breathing hard, and uses it, tip down, as a support as he drags himself upright.
And he’s up. He’s standing, though awkwardly, keeping his weight off that shattered ankle. He’s panting like a dog, chest heaving. He wipes the blood from his mouth.
[End and Death, Volume 2, part 8, chapter 17]

And Sanguinius profile has no Supernatural Willpower
CRT needed for that?

 

[Nonynho]

Also, just started Volume 3 and noticed that, in Perturabo's epilogue, he reeeeeally thought he could beat Dorn

Could he? This is matchable in this forum, y'all think?

 

[PresentTrunks]

been reading Siege of Terra, finally at the second to last book and i noticed this

And Sanguinius profile has no Supernatural Willpower
CRT needed for that?

I was planning to give all the Primarchs supernatural willpower. They're highly resistant to the effects of Greater Daemons because of their will power, as we see in Rise of the Primarch.

Also, just started Volume 3 and noticed that, in Perturabo's epilogue, he reeeeeally thought he could beat Dorn

Could he? This is matchable in this forum, y'all think?

Imo, it could go either way, depending on how their fight starts.

Dorn stomped human Fulgrim in Saturnine, meaning he's easily one of the fastest Primarchs and best duellists, but Perturabo is described as having the most durability augmentations in Deliverance Lost and, following some armour upgrades, blasted through Daemon Prince Angron with exotic weapons and took hits that would've destroyed Titans in Slaves to Darkness.

I think if Dorn could get close enough and had the right position for a kill shot, he'd win, but Perturabo would win a longer ranged fight.

 

[Nonynho]

I was planning to give all the Primarchs supernatural willpower. They're highly resistant to the effects of Greater Daemons because of their will power, as we see in Rise of the Primarch.

Imo, it could go either way, depending on how their fight starts.

Dorn stomped human Fulgrim in Saturnine, meaning he's easily one of the fastest Primarchs and best duellists, but Perturabo is described as having the most durability augmentations in Deliverance Lost and, following some armour upgrades, blasted through Daemon Prince Angron with exotic weapons and took hits that would've destroyed Titans in Slaves to Darkness.

I think if Dorn could get close enough and had the right position for a kill shot, he'd win, but Perturabo would win a longer ranged fight.

i'll be creating the match thread later today, it is a cool idea IMO and i agree it could go either way

 

[Nonynho]

Imo, it could go either way, depending on how their fight starts.

i'll be creating the match thread later today, it is a cool idea IMO and i agree it could go either way

[0-0-0] All-Hating Living Weapon vs The Undying Praetorian of Terra - Perturabo vs Rogal Dorn

Could Perturabo really kill his brother? Let's find out They're starting 50m away Speed equal for simplicity sake One hour of prep for both Daemon Prince of Chaos Undivided, Primarch of the Iron Warriors- Praetorian of Terra, Primarch of the Imperial Fists- Incon-

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