(Accepted) Iruna/Toram CRT (Again): Scaling and Maybe 2-C

[HakutoRei000]

Hehehe Again and Again.

This time is for the scaling so the rating can be applied for the respected profile.

== The Scaling ==

At least 4-A, possibly Low 2-C.

Ouvel ≥ Almas > Twelve Gods = Dragon Gods > Vice Gods = Extra Gods > Dragons = Demons / Fallen Angels = Angels.

The justification will be like this:

(Defeated multiple gods during a sparring session within the Divine Tower. Capable of fighting on par with Almas, the highest among the Twelve Gods. The gods are beings capable of creating worlds ranging from small-scale realms to universe-sized structures, with even the smallest possessing its own independent space-time continuum. These worlds are sustained by the gods’ limitless power.
Almas is stated to have created everything within the world, including the Altered Space, a realm where all beings deemed useless are discarded. This realm is described as an eternal darkness with no concept of time, and its spatial structure is sustained by a core capable of altering an entire world.
Later, defeated Ouvel alongside others. Ouvel is an Outer God who has devoured a tremendous number of worlds across time and space, previously defeated and absorbed Almas, and posed a threat to all of Iruna.
Also fought Keltoi, the Demon God, who threatened to erase and reset the entire world also threatened to return the world to blank slate, which is established as a four-dimensional space.)

Not really important but maybe can help for a possible 2-C.

As established before Iruna is At least 4-A, and possibly Low 2-C, now there's another Iruna with completely different nature, none of the twelve gods but Almas exist as the supreme god, this is the place where Ouvel originate and the statement of tremendous world is stated in this Iruna, so it's possible to assume in the MC Iruna world there's also a tremendous amount of worlds. (There's Bleudraf and Dragonewt Realm which is also a different space and time continuum with a 4-D space).

But...if that didn't matter well, the scaling is the most important.

Agree: Random-Helper323 (Staff), Vietthai96 (Staff), Elizhaa (Admin).

 

[Random-Helper323]

This scan here refers to the cosmology as infinite.

For creation feats we typically need some evidence that it wasn't done over time and that it scales to physical abilities or any kind of attack.

 

[HakutoRei000]

This scan here refers to the cosmology as infinite.

So solid low 2-C?

 

[Random-Helper323]

So solid low 2-C?

Since the scan is talking about the dragons, and saying they're part of the cosmos, followed by several adjectives including boundless and infinite, the statement is a bit open to interpretation, regarding whether it's referring to the size of the cosmos or if it's just being flashy about describing the dragons as being part of the world. It's annoying when scans use words designed to be unclear like that.

 

[HakutoRei000]

This scan here refers to the cosmology as infinite.

For creation feats we typically need some evidence that it wasn't done over time and that it scales to physical abilities or any kind of attack.

That's an event and the timelapse of the story is just 1 day.

For physical attack we can use Ouvel for he can physically fight with Almas whose power sustained all of the universes.

 

[HakutoRei000]

Since the scan is talking about the dragons, and saying they're part of the cosmos, followed by several adjectives including boundless and infinite, the statement is a bit open to interpretation, regarding whether it's referring to the size of the cosmos or if it's just being flashy about describing the dragons as being part of the world. It's annoying when scans use words designed to be unclear like that.

Well the dragons and the gods create the world to be infinite (as stated above) until they are died or dragons died then that world will end.

Also can you call other staff? Thank you.

 

[Random-Helper323]

For physical attack we can use Ouvel for he can physically fight with Almas whose power sustained all of the universes.

We need proof that the power they use to create or sustain worlds is the same power source as their direct attacks or physical strikes.

Well the dragons and the gods create the world to be infinite (as stated above) until they are died or dragons died then that world will end.

Proof that the statement about being infinite refers to its size is preferable here. The statement could be interpreted as referring to the dragons as infinite just as easily as the world. The way it's written has unclear grammar, unclear on whether the adjectives were being applied to the cosmos or the dragons.

Also can you call other staff? Thank you.

@Reiner04 @Planck69 @SomebodyData

You three responded to the previous thread. What do you think of this one's proposals?

 

[HakutoRei000]

same power source

Sorry how can i prove this like what "source" that you mean.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

If their physical attacks or magical attacks use the same power that they use to create reality.

Though wouldn't their being killed = world destroyed
Sufficient to say that the form that they use already sustains it
So, being able to destroy or attack with that already qualifies?

From my reading, though, it does sound more like the Dragons are the ones being infinite and boundless.

 

[HakutoRei000]

Bumping

Though wouldn't their being killed = world destroyed
Sufficient to say that the form that they use already sustains it
So, being able to destroy or attack with that already qualifies?

Idk man but i heard that can be possible

From my reading, though, it does sound more like the Dragons are the ones being infinite and boundless.

Well in context the gods is stronger than the dragons (gods) and dragon gods can create and sustain the world the same as gods.

And in my last CRT that got rejected it was shown that as long gods/dragons exist the world will exist even if they got destroyed they can just be rebuild again so their existence define the existence of the world (yes the dragon is a universal concept).

 

[HakutoRei000]

We need proof that the power they use to create or sustain worlds is the same power source as their direct attacks or physical strikes.

Proof that the statement about being infinite refers to its size is preferable here. The statement could be interpreted as referring to the dragons as infinite just as easily as the world. The way it's written has unclear grammar, unclear on whether the adjectives were being applied to the cosmos or the dragons.

@Reiner04 @Planck69 @SomebodyData

You three responded to the previous thread. What do you think of this one's proposals?

So i get my hand on a few interesting scan.

Gods can affect space and time with their power and when MC fight her in Divine Tower this same power was used in her skill.

Now the real neat part:

These two scan might be interpreted as just the gods rewriting history as maybe memory manipulation, but the problem is the gods not only alter what was happening they deadass change the past from what was supposed to happen to the point that Almas send his envoy to ensure that what he wish is happening.

Because with a name somebody could be brought back to life

The god (Almas the bastard) intentionally didn't give her a name so that she can't be resurrected, and triggered the canon event where Keltoi become a demon god that threatened to erase and reset the entire world.

There exists an object known as Crystal Memories, which contain the complete history of a land, spanning from its past to its present.

When a Crystal Memory absorbs a land’s history, that history is removed from the original location from the past to present. As a result, the affected land becomes devoid of its prior events, described as becoming “like a blank page.”

Once absorbed, the memories do not naturally return to their original state, indicating that the process is irreversible.
While undisturbed, a Crystal Memory preserves the absorbed history as a stable and self-consistent world-state. The events within continue to exist exactly as they originally occurred.

However, when an individual enters or interferes with a Crystal Memory, they are able to physically interact with the contained history. Any actions taken within the Crystal Memory alter the sequence of events inside it, preventing the absorbed history from remaining identical to its original form.

This establishes that Crystal Memories do not function as passive recordings, but as containers for entire historical continuities capable of being altered, resulting in divergent outcomes.

As a result, the Crystal Memories do not merely store information. They contain an entire past world state, complete with its own space, time, and causality. Changes made within the crystal propagate forward, shaping the future that follows from that past.

It is later revealed that interacting with a Crystal Memory is not memory viewing, but actual time travel. The individual entering the crystal is transported to the past and actively alters it, rather than observing a fixed history.

Certain gods and dragons within the past world are already aware of this phenomenon.

They recognize the interference of the main character as inevitable, understanding that the present timeline exists only because the past was altered. In other words, the main character’s intervention is a required event,
not an anomaly.

This creates two primary timelines:

1. Altered Timeline
The timeline in which the main character travels to the past, changes events through the Crystal Memories, and creates the present world in which they exist.
Original Timeline

2. A timeline where no interference occurs. In this version of history, the main character never time travels, and as a result, never exists in the altered present.

Both timelines coexist independently, and changes in one do not overwrite the other.

The existence of Crystal Memories implies that the world is not governed by a single, linear flow of time. Instead, time branches into separate continuities, each with its own past, present, and future.

Because Crystal Memories exist across multiple instances of existence and function in the same way in other worlds, this phenomenon is not localized. It is a systemic feature of reality, rather than an isolated event.

That's all but if this doesn't mean anything well, we can always just stick to the scaling.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Sorry how can i prove this like what "source" that you mean.

If a Dragon Ball character uses their Ki to create a universe, it's the same power as their physical and energy attacks. When a Bleach character shakes three universes with their spiritual energy, it's the same energy that powers their strikes and blasts. If a mage creates a universe using their mana and then uses a similar amount of mana to fire an energy attack, it's the same energy again.

 

[HakutoRei000]

If a Dragon Ball character uses their Ki to create a universe, it's the same power as their physical and energy attacks. When a Bleach character shakes three universes with their spiritual energy, it's the same energy that powers their strikes and blasts. If a mage creates a universe using their mana and then uses a similar amount of mana to fire an energy attack, it's the same energy again.

Well, the fight between gods threatened the balance of the universe and that same energy is used against MC in the fight does that count?

 

[Random-Helper323]

Well, the fight between gods threatened the balance of the universe

Are there scans for context? Threatening the balance is hard to be clear on. Unless there's more context, wording like that isn't proof of universal power.

and that same energy is used against MC in the fight does that count?

Are there scans about this energy? The world all using the same kind of magic would likely suffice.

 

[HakutoRei000]

Are there scans about this energy? The world all using the same kind of magic would likely suffice

Threatening the balance is hard to be clear on

 

[HakutoRei000]

Bumping

 

[Random-Helper323]

So this positive energy can create life forms. Is there anything about this energy directly increasing or fuelling spell damage, physical stats, or enhancing physical strikes or abilities?

For example, Ki, Reiatsu and such enhance all physical abilities and are used to shoot energy.

The balance of the world is very hard to use as evidence of destroying that world.

 

[HakutoRei000]

Is there anything about this energy directly increasing or fuelling spell damage, physical stats, or enhancing physical strikes or abilities?

All abilities use mana, that mana is created from positive energy, so yes.

Mana is used by gods, dragon gods, and demon gods, Almas, Ouvel, Keltoi, God tier that MC fight use mana to basically do what they say.

 

[Random-Helper323]

All abilities use mana, that mana is created from positive energy, so yes.

Mana is used by gods, dragon gods, and demon gods, Almas, Ouvel, Keltoi, God tier that MC fight use mana to basically do what they say.

If the same mana is used for all spells as you say (we'll need to see some scans on that), then that would likely mean beings who could create and stabilise worlds could cast spells on that level. The issue then becomes whether they have any such spells, and also that this would need a few extra steps to scale to physical abilities.

For more information, this page tells you how it works.

 

[HakutoRei000]

If the same mana is used for all spells as you say (we'll need to see some scans on that), then that would likely mean beings who could create and stabilise worlds could cast spells on that level. The issue then becomes whether they have any such spells, and also that this would need a few extra steps to scale to physical abilities.

Here and here

And of course only the god tier can cast spell at that level this just to prove everyone has mana. And the spell i think they can harm each other with it the gods (in Lore only ofc).

 

[HakutoRei000]

Bumping i hope this is the last

 

[Random-Helper323]

Here and here

Okay, this seems to support the idea of magic and mana being a shared or common energy source in the verse. Maybe a limited energy system. The scan seems to show levelling up coinciding with increases in mana, supporting this. Is there anything about mana also being a physical power source? Alternatively, are there any instances of characters withstanding spells but still taking damage from the same character's physical strikes? (this one will likely be pretty easy)

For a final concern, we do need proof the gods use mana for these creation and sustaining feats and not something else. I believe one of your earlier scans may have already provided that though.

And of course only the god tier can cast spell at that level this just to prove everyone has mana. And the spell i think they can harm each other with it the gods (in Lore only ofc).

One more issue we come to though is how much mana is involved. It's certainly reasonable to give the god characters environmental destruction on that level, but if they use far more mana for that than for any attacking spells it raises a concern. Is there evidence of the creation and sustaining being relatively easy and/or is there evidence of them putting more or similar effort into attacks? For example, a character creating a world with a casual casting would qualify, and that character also fighting another character while casting attack spells with similarly casual levels of effort would qualify.

 

[HakutoRei000]

Okay, this seems to support the idea of magic and mana being a shared or common energy source in the verse. Maybe a limited energy system. The scan seems to show levelling up coinciding with increases in mana, supporting this. Is there anything about mana also being a physical power source? Alternatively, are there any instances of characters withstanding spells but still taking damage from the same character's physical strikes? (this one will likely be pretty easy)

For a final concern, we do need proof the gods use mana for these creation and sustaining feats and not something else. I believe one of your earlier scans may have already provided that though.

One more issue we come to though is how much mana is involved. It's certainly reasonable to give the god characters environmental destruction on that level, but if they use far more mana for that than for any attacking spells it raises a concern. Is there evidence of the creation and sustaining being relatively easy and/or is there evidence of them putting more or similar effort into attacks? For example, a character creating a world with a casual casting would qualify, and that character also fighting another character while casting attack spells with similarly casual levels of effort would qualify.

For physical attack:
Physical Attack and physical buff
For Taking damage:
It just depends on stats some enemy has great mdef (magic defence) and pdef (physical defence) other the opposite though sometimes event boss/raid has great resistance to both.
Sustaining:
Goddess Dunkelis, the goddess of darkness sustain the entire dark domain which is endless, has no time, and is a separate space time. The throne itself derived it's power from her (the scans explaining divine tower cover this) and she sustain it easy enough by just existing. She can also cast spell quite easy.

 

[HakutoRei000]

Bumpingh

 

[Random-Helper323]

Okay, the statement was that positive energy was used to create the world, and the bad guy said that the player can also use positive energy. Is there a direct statement linking mana and this positive energy? Alternatively, is there any energy besides mana it could be referring to? I'm trying to cover all bases, just in case.

The rules for creation feats are here, so you know.

 

[HakutoRei000]

Okay, the statement was that positive energy was used to create the world, and the bad guy said that the player can also use positive energy. Is there a direct statement linking mana and this positive energy? Alternatively, is there any energy besides mana it could be referring to? I'm trying to cover all bases, just in case.

The rules for creation feats are here, so you know.

Sorry the scans gone oblivion (my PC got hacked).

For the energy no, it's Mana as you can see from the link and wiki all skills spells and even physical force uses mana (combat and non combat).

 

[HakutoRei000]

There's a indirect statements linking it, but essentially Mana was created by positive and negative energy being influenced by either the dominant feelings of either positive or negative.

Even when in spirit form they already amassed a huge negative energy that fueled her Mana in abnormal state changing her to a monster.

So basically Mana is the energy that can create life, and positive and negative energy exist before even the creation of a physical form altering their information (form) from Mana.

So basically Mana was created before the creation of being.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Sorry the scans gone oblivion (my PC got hacked).

For the energy no, it's Mana as you can see from the link and wiki all skills spells and even physical force uses mana (combat and non combat).

That's definitely a common energy system then. The page does say that we need a comparable effort made to create things as to cast attack spells, which seems to be the last hurdle here.

@DarkDragonMedeus @KingTempest @Planck69 @Imaginym @Godernet what do you all think?

 

[HakutoRei000]

we need a comparable effort made to create things as to cast attack spells, which seems to be the last hurdle

Well the best example is Dunkelis, while she's fighting an enemy she's still constantly stabilizing the Dark Domain (Casting spell and attacks) and after the fight she didn't even struggles or anything.

Here she fight the enemy with Spell called Mana Wave and didn't even struggles or show's fatigue

At that time she's still powering the throne to stabilizes the entire dark domain.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Well the best example is Dunkelis, while she's fighting an enemy she's still constantly stabilizing the Dark Domain (Casting spell and attacks) and after the fight she didn't even struggles or anything.

Here she fight the enemy with Spell called Mana Wave and didn't even struggles or show's fatigue

At that time she's still powering the throne to stabilizes the entire dark domain.

Stabilisation feats have a couple of additional rules.

From the page:

Spoiler

Requirement 1: Specify what exactly is being stabilized so that it is made clear what the character's sustainability is doing precisely.

Requirement 2: Prove that the stabilized structure is being directly sustained by the power of the character and not from the character's abilities, life force, existence, magical properties, or any unknown connection that is independent of their statistics.

Requirement 3: Prove that the character's stabilization is comparable to the scale of the structure they are stabilizing. Preferably, it should be proven that the character's sustainability is comparable to the destruction of the structure to best show that their power rivals the destructive output of what would destroy the structure in the first place. Please keep in mind that this may vary depending on how the structure's destruction would occur. For example, if a character sustains the existence of a universe that would not be instantly or immediately destroyed when no longer supported, the power of their sustainability would not be comparable to destructive output that completely and immediately destroys a universe, and would not be sufficient enough to be given a 3-A or Low 2-C rating. However, their sustainability could be given either rating if the universe they sustain would be completely destroyed instantly or immediately without support.

Requirement 4: Prove that the power of the character's stabilization consistently scales to their regular statistics, similar to our standards for creation feats.

 

[HakutoRei000]

Stabilisation feats have a couple of additional rules.

From the page:

Spoiler

Requirement 1: Specify what exactly is being stabilized so that it is made clear what the character's sustainability is doing precisely.

Requirement 2: Prove that the stabilized structure is being directly sustained by the power of the character and not from the character's abilities, life force, existence, magical properties, or any unknown connection that is independent of their statistics.

Requirement 3: Prove that the character's stabilization is comparable to the scale of the structure they are stabilizing. Preferably, it should be proven that the character's sustainability is comparable to the destruction of the structure to best show that their power rivals the destructive output of what would destroy the structure in the first place. Please keep in mind that this may vary depending on how the structure's destruction would occur. For example, if a character sustains the existence of a universe that would not be instantly or immediately destroyed when no longer supported, the power of their sustainability would not be comparable to destructive output that completely and immediately destroys a universe, and would not be sufficient enough to be given a 3-A or Low 2-C rating. However, their sustainability could be given either rating if the universe they sustain would be completely destroyed instantly or immediately without support.

Requirement 4: Prove that the power of the character's stabilization consistently scales to their regular statistics, similar to our standards for creation feats.

There's more even in previous crt (mainly divine tower explanation) but my PC get hacked so I can't access it.

The scans started means that it will be destroyed without the gods but this is mainly because the Dragon Gods (previous crt) exist in these worlds to maintain it for a short time. Also the destruction is these world turn to void completely.

These scan is especially talking about Almas, and his death literally erase the verse itself.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I think only requirement 2 could be an issue here.

 

[HakutoRei000]

I think only requirement 2 could be an issue here.

Why? The gods Mana directly sustain worlds?

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Seems like an interesting verse.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Why? The gods Mana directly sustain worlds?

Because the requirements demand proof that it doesn't sustain from a means separate from their stats. Given the mana being a shared energy source however, I do think that's reasonable.

I think at this point I'll support this. Count me as agree.

 

[HakutoRei000]

Because the requirements demand proof that it doesn't sustain from a means separate from their stats. Given the mana being a shared energy source however, I do think that's reasonable.

I think at this point I'll support this. Count me as agree.

Alright counted can you also called other staff? Thank you.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Alright counted can you also called other staff? Thank you.

I did earlier.

 

[HakutoRei000]

I did earlier.

Ah forget it didn't show

 

[HakutoRei000]

Bumping

 

[HakutoRei000]

Bumping