Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

The "It's not realistic!" argument in this franchise is so damn funny, as if people normally see 3-foot anthropomorphic creatures that break the sound barrier

Bro, the "It's not realistic" argument is so cringe cuz I see it ALL the time in the D&D space. "Erhm martial characters shouldn't be doing anime moves it's not realistic " (meanwhile, the 20th level wizard is able to call down meteor swarms spanning a mile-wide radius and turning people into ancient red dragons while the 20th level fighter can, I dunno, attacks four times a turn against a single person). People will REFUSE the reality of the martial-caster divide.

Anyway, this has never been new LMAO. People wanna think that Sonic is all speed, no power.

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

I don't think of any of them grow over time, personally. Too many plot points fall apart if they do jump tiers in strength within a week, imo, among other issues.

If they scale to Sonic in any way, I think it makes sense that they do. At the very least, Sonic and Shadow have it.

 

[Jimmy.robinson.5099]

But does he come with his Scrapnik design?

 

[TheStinkeer]

Bro, the "It's not realistic" argument is so cringe cuz I see it ALL the time in the D&D space. "Erhm martial characters shouldn't be doing anime moves it's not realistic " (meanwhile, the 20th level wizard is able to call down meteor swarms spanning a mile-wide radius and turning people into ancient red dragons while the 20th level fighter can, I dunno, attacks four times a turn against a single person). People will REFUSE the reality of the martial-caster divide.

Anyway, this has never been new LMAO. People wanna think that Sonic is all speed, no power.

I do think there is a limit of realism, something that varies from verse to verse on what makes sense.

If Sonic as a series didn't have time and space being screwed up every Tuesday, magical rocks that turn you super saiyan and are powered by the power of friendship, literal cartoon animals, Sonic's alternate dimension counterpart that can run with heels and her rocks can merge universes, gods and godlike beings that can eat universes, Eggman surviving things that nobody could even dream about surviving, and SO much more, I could maybe buy the whole "it wouldn't be realistic if Sonic could move at the speed of light." But uh, Sonic as a series has all of that and then some.

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

I do think there is a limit of realism, something that varies from verse to verse on what makes sense.

If Sonic as a series didn't have time and space being screwed up every Tuesday, magical rocks that turn you super saiyan and are powered by the power of friendship, literal cartoon animals, Sonic's alternate dimension counterpart that can run with heels and her rocks can merge universes, gods and godlike beings that can eat universes, Eggman surviving things that nobody could even dream about surviving, and SO much more, I could maybe buy the whole "it wouldn't be realistic if Sonic could move at the speed of light." But uh, Sonic as a series has all of that and then some.

Keep in mind that 20th level fighters are the same people that can take hits from clearly supernatural beings and NOT get dusted immediately LMAO. But god forbid they slice so hard that they create a shockwave or punch the ground to crater it.

 

[Galactidot]

Bro I'm finna quit from Mario scaling and become a full time Sonic and Kirby scaler

Y'all actually get shit done and stick together with organized threads and scans and are actually DEDICATED to it
and you aren't having ex-mods threaten to take you to court every other week over a joke

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

Bro I'm finna quit from Mario scaling and become a full time Sonic and Kirby scaler

Y'all actually get shit done and stick together with organized threads and scans and are actually DEDICATED to it
and you aren't having ex-mods threaten to take you to court every other week over a joke

Welcome to our cluuuub

Welcome to our cluuuuuuub

WELCOME GALACTIC WELCOME GALACTIC WELCOME GALACTIC WELCOME GALACTIC

 

[MysticMania]

Bro I'm finna quit from Mario scaling and become a full time Sonic and Kirby scaler

Y'all actually get shit done and stick together with organized threads and scans and are actually DEDICATED to it
and you aren't having ex-mods threaten to take you to court every other week over a joke

Random, but I like your Scolipede icon.

 

[Galactidot]

Random, but I like your Scolipede icon.

Thanks haha

 

[Fireld]

Eggman surviving things that nobody could even dream about surviving

But god forbid they slice so hard that they create a shockwave

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

 

[Bobsican]

Playing devil's advocate I think that the right term for this kind of issue is the willing suspension of disbelief, a basic aspect of media consumption in which basically things have to be more so believable than realistic, thus reducing immersion appeal otherwise. All of that said, such suspension being broken by Sonic being strong of all things? Really? I'd respect that more if it was more about blatantly out of characters moments like Tails being scared of Chaos 0 in Forces or retcons across the history of the series.

Funnily enough Ian Flynn apparently comments on this topic for Archie Sonic:

"The trick comes down to this: How do you make a ridiculous scenario (talking, colorful animal-people fighting a ponderously large madman) engaging enough to read regularly? The answer: A tricky balancing act where the reader isn't necessarily supposed to take it seriously, but the characters of the world do. If the characters believe themselves to be in peril, then their honesty will inspire the reader to believe them. But at the same time, the writer has to craft it so that the reader is looking upon all this in an accessible fashion; we can't just assume the reader will be immediately invested and believe in the ridiculous scenario [...] But the writer can only do so much. It's also part of the reader's job to approach the material in the right mindset. If the reader is looking for a grand, sweeping anthropomorphic saga, or a GRIMDARK study of slavery and the theme of Nature vs. Industry, or if the reader simply isn't going to allow themselves to enjoy such high fantasy, then there's nothing the writer can do to entertain theme."

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

as if people normally see 3-foot anthropomorphic creatures that break the sound barrier

You don't?

 

[McFriesGuy075]

I dont understand why are people so hellbent on being a Sonic hater at any chance they get

 

[TheStinkeer]

I dont understand why are people so hellbent on being a Sonic hater at any chance they get

DOWNPLAY THE BLUE HEDGEHOG BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY

 

[TMaakkonen]

I mean its simple isnt it? Either the games suck or the fans suck. Or both. Thats enough of a reason.

 

[MusicRelaxing]

Complaining about that shit is genuinely so damn corny The panels were absolutely kickass with gorgeous art to capture a badass moment. Like at this point I don't know what to call it but an agenda

"NOOOOOOO Sonic has noodle arms, his thing is RUNNING not LIFTING!"

And besides, couldn't just battery-ram into objects to kind of carry them in a ****** up way? force is reliant on acceleration, no?

 

[MusicRelaxing]

Bro I'm finna quit from Mario scaling and become a full time Sonic and Kirby scaler

Y'all actually get shit done and stick together with organized threads and scans and are actually DEDICATED to it
and you aren't having ex-mods threaten to take you to court every other week over a joke

WELCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCOMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

 

[LukeChaosBlobz]

Bro I'm finna quit from Mario scaling and become a full time Sonic and Kirby scaler

Y'all actually get shit done and stick together with organized threads and scans and are actually DEDICATED to it
and you aren't having ex-mods threaten to take you to court every other week over a joke

Welcome my dude

 

[Tyranno223]

Sonic timeline gets confusing again with Speed Sim. Apparently Mecha MK II is Metal's "older brother".

 

[DaReaperMan]

Sonic timeline gets confusing again with Speed Sim. Apparently Mecha MK II is Metal's "older brother".

HAHAHA

 

[Alexander]

Sonic timeline gets confusing again with Speed Sim. Apparently Mecha MK II is Metal's "older brother".

I mean he looks bigger

 

[Tyranno223]

It's another Generations/Forces style Classic Sonic character in Modern times one. Mecha's from before he sank with Sky Sanctuary according to Nibroc, and they assume Eggman made some repairs so at least you can assume Mecha was updated to be a threat.

 

[OldestDream2]

I'm gonna be real, theres more evidence for them growing in power than there is for them not. surge was enhanced after sonic and shadow's bio-data, and after she got one shot by that one super badnik, she grew in power to one shot IT

 

[OldestDream2]

also, isn't SSS non canon?In my professional and very unbiased opinion, the badniks, specifically metal and mecha, are able to grow in power since they can keep up with a post forces sonic

 

[OldestDream2]

also, why do we have black doom on the same level as the time eater

 

[LaserPrecision]

also, isn't SSS non canon?In my professional and very unbiased opinion, the badniks, specifically metal and mecha, are able to grow in power since they can keep up with a post forces sonic

I'm pretty sure Eggman is stated to verbatim upgrade them after every encounter. It would make since they "grow".

 

[Omegabronic]

also, why do we have black doom on the same level as the time eater

the justification is on the profile

 

[Tyranno223]

also, isn't SSS non canon?

On wiki, SSS is used as canon. That aside, it seems to be canon? It's confusing tbh because Sega has to approve what they can and cannot do, so they treat it as canon somewhat.

In my professional and very unbiased opinion, the badniks, specifically metal and mecha, are able to grow in power since they can keep up with a post forces sonic

Yes, Eggman does upgrade them. It's mentioned verbatim (as LaserPrecision says).

Notably the SSS Mecha Sonic MK2 is specifically from the past. From just before he could sink with Sky Sanctuary. However, as Eggman likely repaired him, it's also likely he was updated to be a threat to the Modern cast, so it should be fine.

If anything, it's a new key?

 

[Executor_N0]

On wiki, SSS is used as canon. That aside, it seems to be canon? It's confusing tbh because Sega has to approve what they can and cannot do, so they treat it as canon somewhat.

Basically, whatever appears in SSS would need to be canon-compliant, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's canon as an event that happens in the main universe timeline. Just that whatever happens there can't contradict what happens in it.

You don't need to be canon to be canon-compliant.

 

[MusicRelaxing]

Basically, whatever appears in SSS would need to be canon-compliant, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's canon as an event that happens in the main universe timeline. Just that whatever happens there can't contradict what happens in it.

You don't need to be canon to be canon-compliant.

Question, couldn't the player from SSS get a profile?

 

[Tyranno223]

Basically, whatever appears in SSS would need to be canon-compliant, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's canon as an event that happens in the main universe timeline. Just that whatever happens there can't contradict what happens in it.

You don't need to be canon to be canon-compliant.

Neat to know.

For the record, I picked up my info here since I'm not in the Discord server. Can't verify because of that too.

 

[MysticMania]

Sonic timeline gets confusing again with Speed Sim. Apparently Mecha MK II is Metal's "older brother".

I can understand why someone would think that. But for how notoriously stingy SEGA and Sonic Team are with Sonic canon and what they allow ( even in Speed Sim ), I thought they wouldn't caught that.

 

[MysticMania]

If he did make upgrades, I think he would've mentioned that with the repairs, imo. Mecha seems to use only the same moves from Sonic 3 in the Speed Sim fight, from what I've played so far.


I'm really surprised they were allowed to bring them in the game.

 

[MysticMania]

I hope mk.II gets into CrossWorlds personally.

 

[Jimmy.robinson.5099]

I hope mk.II gets into CrossWorlds personally.

Can he come with his Scrapnik design?

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Sonic timeline gets confusing again with Speed Sim. Apparently Mecha MK II is Metal's "older brother".

Bruh... at this point we need a comprehensive Robotnik family tree from Gerald to Sage and everything in-between.

I hope mk.II gets into CrossWorlds personally.

If that happens, that also means other "classic" characters may appear in the current era like Mighty, Ray, Trip, etc but I won't hold my breath.

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

Can anyone give me a full-ish breakdown of Sonic's fate resistance? Someone I'm debating with is saying otherwise in reference to the stuff shown in Secret Rings. Here's what they said.

 

[TheStinkeer]

Can anyone give me a full-ish breakdown of Sonic's fate resistance? Someone I'm debating with is saying otherwise in reference to the stuff shown in Secret Rings. Here's what they said.

They have a fair point in some regards but other points it's wrong.

Sonic was, in fact, the sacrifice. It wasn't just the arrow of judgement. It's confirmed from multiple clues in Secret Rings itself and in the Japanese special book. Additionally King Solomon said in the original story that "he had the look of death" or something akin to it according to Windii's translation.

Now they are right that Shahra did, in fact, jump in front of the attack. However, there's a bit of nuance. Shahra was working alongside Erazor Djinn and gave him the World Rings. Shahra jumped in front of Sonic after he wished for her to do the right thing, and Shahra's wishes also aren't noted to change fate especially when the huge limitation to Shahra's wishes is that she grants "simple wishes," we also see Shahra can't help Sonic with some stronger hitters. That being said, if you want to not grant Sonic fate resistance for that reason, it's a fair point.

Now for Darkspine, the points are likely irrelevant because it was talking about the sacrifice itself. But let's say hypothetically that the prophecy would still be in effect here. Then that would just mean that Sonic DOES end up getting a fate resistance because he still defeated Alf Layla Wa Layla. Fate will always lead to one conclusion unless you can defy it, and if the Darkspine V.S Alf Layla Wa Layla fight still falls under this, then it's a fate resistance.

You also have some Japanese Frontiers stuff to go off of, Like The End fight and debatably Sonic entering and exiting Cyber Space. Now Japanese wasn't the original language Frontiers was writtin in unlike Secret Rings, but SoJ still did have a good bit of involvement and Kishimoto is credited as a writer. Plus Sonic IS a JP IP

 

[TheStinkeer]

A while after making this I found out that someone was able to get the JP version of the Secret Rings Special Book, and the Alf Layla Wa Layla part adds more evidence that Sonic was meant to be the sacrifice rather than Shahra being a twist sacrifice


"7つの世界リングによって変身を試みるが、いけにえとなるはずのソニックと合体できず不完全な姿になった"
and should translate to something like:
"He attempts to transform using the Seven World Rings, but is unable to combine with Sonic, who is meant to be the sacrifice, resulting in an incomplete form."

Similarly the same channel uploaded one with Black Knight, so now all we need is the JP Unleashed encyclopedia

btw here's the special book quote @ZothythoTheNephalem