Outside of time manipulation Frisk only has a range of several meters at most they can't reach a flying arceus unless we assume the speed applies to the jet pack which is without evidence
What stops arceus from just returning?
This is Peak DT Frisk, the same one who outran a timeline destruction, come on now.
It wouldn't know where Frisk is due to its Omniscience not applying to non-Pokémon verse things.
You know the win condition for bfr is "removing the opponent from the battlefield for at least one week," because besides probably being weird with time travel. It doesn't say you can go into hiding to win afterwards and I don't think leaving counts as incapacitating your opponent.
It does absolutely count
BFR means removing the opponent from the battleground, and that's it. It counted as a wincondition on the past because of it basically reality warping the entire setting on an informational level, which yeah, it resets memories of most opponents, but it also basically removes them from the battlefield as it's something beyond their control, while Frisk is still under the control of the Player while also remembering it themselves.
I count that as a vote too?
Based on what precedent?
Standard Battle Assumptions
I am pretty sure that Arceus just has no real answer to TR being used over and over given that not only it comes from the Player which is outside its range, but also the fact that it lacks Type 2 Info to properly counter it, so it counts as something?
If I am not mistaken can't it just summon Giratina to portal Frisk to the distortion world.
That stuff is still within baseline Low 1-C range as the Distortion World is only 2-A sized. TR works just fine.
Can true reset move someone back from a a place without concepts of time or space?
It literally restored the Game World after that Chara has completely erased it, so...
I mean, that literally doesn't answer the fact that the source of Frisk's powers is literally outside the Pokémon main cosmology, which includes the Distortion World, it's not like the Player loses the connection to Frisk only because the latter is in a void with no time and space, it happened several times in Undertale.
The humble SAVE and LOAD's entire purpose:
I don't think using time travel to go before or after a branch in a branching timeline is the same as going across dimensions that don't share a timeline.
Considering that this wiki treats timelines as dimensions as the same thing for the sake of simplification, as most verses do treat these as the same thing, I don't think this is a good argument.
Using ways to permanently kill/incapacitate Frisk with hax such as Mind hax, CM1, and so on. The question is when it'll use it against, ya know, a child it has no prior knowledge on.
If this is the case, then why is taking out Frisk a win condition?
Because this is a frisk matchup not a player one,otherwise the same can be said about Arceus 1A form
Things like CM1 can permanently kill Frisk even with TR so there's that as a wincon.
But a still TR is still something that can be done in this matchup, right? I saw it being discussed in earlier posts.
Yeah, but at this point it'd become a Player vs Arceus rn. The TR is something that is valid as a wincon as long as Frisk is still usable I mean this.
Interesting. But the player is beyond Arceus's cosmology, isn't it? What would stop the player from seeing Arceus perform one of said win conditions & doing a True Reset to undo the win con &/or send a "new" Frisk at Arceus? (Or the stuff about BFR via True Reset?)
Concepts and Information aren't assumed to be able to interact with each other, meaning that you cannot undo Conceptual Erasure with Information Manipulation and viceversa.
You don't do that. The Frisk we use in all the runs regardless of True Reset is always physically the same, Flowey's speech at the end of Pacifist wouldn't make sense otherwise.
Permanently killing Frisk first would be a win for Arceus here, given that we're not what Arceus is fighting but Frisk. But similarly to how Arceus is always controlled by The Original Spirit, Frisk is also controlled from us, making this a battle between puppets in a way.
Thank you very much for the clarifications. Perhaps I should've checked the first 5 pages of this thread, but I feel like there might be some things to consider:
Perhaps I may be mistaken, but in the moment, I find this notion funny.
vsbattles.fandom.com
This is all true, but the problem is that Arceus itself... doesn't exactly use that much in all the medium's it's been in. In the movie it kept attacking over and over despite Ash & co. went to the past and let "Marcus" trick it with the Jewel of Life incident, in the manga it also let itself be captured from the Team Rocket (even if that was an overall test for the humans but whatever), and so on.Standard Equipment: Its Plates, which represent each of the 19 Pokémon types. Arceus also can use the 18 Z-Crystals as they function the same way as the Plates
The Plates have access to every power shown in the series as the origin of it all. This would include:Arceus
Arceus is a Mythical Pokémon who is the leader and creator of the "Creation Trio" formed by Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina, as well as the "Lake Trio" formed by Mesprit, Uxie, and Azelf, making it a Trio Master, and the only one who is that of two different trios. By bringing the trios into...
Psychometry (Upscaled From Mega Alakazam, who can see the course of a person's life from birth to death, with but a glance[108], Precognition and Retrocognition (Upscaled from Calyrex, who can see the past and future.[109] Upscaled from Poliwrath who can read moves before they're used[110]
Information Analysis (Upscaled From Alakazam, who can instantly discern his opponents weakness[134]
Photographic Memory (Upscaled From Alakazam, who never forgets anything[158])
Arceus looks at Frisk.
Arceus sees Frisk from life to death. Even if this doesn't include them rewinding, it'd see they're very Determined, resistant, etc.
But more noticeably, it'll see:
A. Frisk doesn't die. (Such as because they're in a timeline where Frisk makes the moves to beat down Arceus & Arceus wouldn't have lead with something lethal.). Since Frisk winning would be part of their life, Arceus sees its defeat, & can take action to prevent that.
B. Arceus sees Frisk's life continue in linear time... then suddenly jump backwards in time to the beginning of their fight, since it's the same Frisk, cueing Arceus in that Frisk is rewinding. Arceus can then take action against that.
C. Depending on how stuff disappearing with a TR works, Arceus sees space & time disappear when Frisk "dies" because of the TR. Arceus can then take action against that. It could also see the abrupt ending of space & time thanks to Calyrex's Precognition & Retrocognition, & since it can see the past, this is another ability that'll cue it into time shenanigans, since at one moment, there'll be a different Frisk in the past than the Frisk previously in the past.
With Alakazam's Information Analysis & other Intelligence stuff, I'd assume that'd be reason enough for it to realize it needs to take them out in a way that works around their time travelling.
Omniscience doesn't cover things that aren't from one's verse, meaning that Arceus wouldn't (at least in the beginning) know anything about Frisk, Determination, what's the SAVE File, who's the Player, etc. etc. So that has to be counted in as well.
It's all I know. It is absolutely that serious, at least to me.
That sounds a serious concern for your mental health if a random thread on a powerscaling website concerns you this much.
It's not the thread that concerns me, and nor did I wish for it to become that. It's you.
I was planning on stopping there since Strym has made it clear that he could really care less about anything I admit, if not turn it into a joke, but alright.
