The Most Racist Tier 0 is a BUM

[Darksmash]

The nature of the Abyss inherently disqualifies anything below it from being un-dimensional. So it doesn’t matter what feats the dreamlands have because it is immediately contradicted by what is shown in TTGOTSK

To add some sense to this, Lovecraft does not use ideas like "beyond time, space and matter" absolutely all the time. In several instances it's intended to be relative to the mortal world. Even in through the gates of the silver key he has used hyperbolic terms like "undimensioned" to refer to the same location he explicitly attributed as "dimensional" later (I'm sure there's several other examples of this but I don't have scans). So you do not HAVE to force an inconsistency if you just interpret things more reasonably, but it's also probably undeniable that there are straight up some inconsistent statements across different stories so it's ultimately whatever the consensus decides

 

[SuperNova55555]

To add some sense to this, Lovecraft does not use ideas like "beyond time, space and matter" absolutely all the time. In several instances it's intended to be relative to the mortal world. Even in through the gates of the silver key he has used hyperbolic terms like "undimensioned" to refer to the same location he explicitly attributed as "dimensional" later (I'm sure there's several other examples of this but I don't have scans). So you do not HAVE to force an inconsistency if you just interpret things more reasonably, but it's also probably undeniable that there are straight up some inconsistent statements across different stories so it's ultimately whatever the consensus decides

Yea I’ve noticed this. One particular thing is also the fact when explaining how dimensions are a fragmentation of the Archetype, he then goes to refer to the whole as “Archetypal Infinity”, which in an immediate sense implies that it is something along the lines of High 1-B (as an infinite summation of dimensions) rather than Low 1-A.

I’m merely saying Low 1-A because the “undimensioned” statements seem rather explicit, even considering the fact its mentioned in TDH, and that the Low 1-A standards themselves fit the interpretation pretty well imo.

 

[SuperNova55555]

Also I forgot to mention but ppl like Tawil will be sent down to Low 1-C, as per the fact that the place after the First Gate iirc was said to have 3-dimensional space as an infinitesimal part of it’s wholeness, and every Gate after that should prolly be attributed another +1D increase, up to obviously High 1-B.

 

[Darksmash]

Personally I don't consider the verse anything above high 1-B (the intention of "dissolution" obviously appears to be the difference between finite dimensions and infinite dimensions rather than dimensioned space and "undimensioned" space (what would the term even mean without any elaboration?))

But idc

 

[BoastJr]

Personally I don't consider the verse anything above high 1-B (the intention of "dissolution" obviously appears to be the difference between finite dimensions and infinite dimensions rather than dimensioned space and "undimensioned" space (what would the term even mean without any elaboration?))

But idc

Goat, where do you scale Umineko to

 

[Okstrike]

I've got finals coming up so I don't have time to refute this in full (but do expect a me to do so either later in the day or tomorrow)

But After skimming through this CRT i already see a lot wrong with it, for example, the mere fact that OP is using scans from chapter 3 already tells me that either one, OP never actually read Through the Gates and just look at the parts relevant to power scaling, or two, OP is purposely taking stuff out of context to fit their agenda

"Why?" you may ask? it's because nothing in chapter 3 has anything to do with the Supreme Archetype or Ultimate Abyss, the chapter is about Carters venture into the Outer Extension and Through the Gates and he only crosses the last gate in the beginning of chapter 4, the only part in this chapter that vaguely links to the Supreme Archetype is 'Umr At-Tawils monologue where he foreshadows the existence of an All-in-One, but thats about it

Put me on disagree

 

[DaReaperMan]

Insane downgrade month

And yet not one of my verses has been touched!

 

[SuperNova55555]

I've got finals coming up so I don't have time to refute this in full (but do expect a me to do so either later in the day or tomorrow)

But After skimming through this CRT i already see a lot wrong with it, for example, the mere fact that OP is using scans from chapter 3 already tells me that either one, OP never actually read Through the Gates and just look at the parts relevant to power scaling, or two, OP is purposely taking stuff out of context to fit their agenda

"Why?" you may ask? it's because nothing in chapter 3 has anything to do with the Supreme Archetype or Ultimate Abyss, the chapter is about Carters venture into the Outer Extension and Through the Gates and he only crosses the last gate in the beginning of chapter 4, the only part in this chapter that vaguely links to the Supreme Archetype is 'Umr At-Tawils monologue where he foreshadows the existence of an All-in-One, but thats about it

Put me on disagree

Both the dimension stuff and cone stuff (the things that actually implicate Tier 0) are in chapter 5.

 

[Greatsage13th]

And yet not one of my verses has been touched!

Please don't jinx it, ftlog.

 

[Darksmash]

Goat, where do you scale Umineko to

4-B

 

[Okstrike]

Both the dimension stuff and cone stuff (the things that actually implicate Tier 0) are in chapter 5.

But you also use scans from chapter 3 as supporting evidence, which is a big red flag that you don't know what you're talking about, nonetheless, just wait for my full response

 

[Darksmash]

But you also use scans from chapter 3 as supporting evidence, which is a big red flag that you don't know what you're talking about, nonetheless, just wait for my full response

Using snippets located few paragraphs above chapter 5 is a red flag apparently, good reminder why I'll never debate seriously on this website again.

 

[SuperNova55555]

But you also use scans from chapter 3 as supporting evidence, which is a big red flag that you don't know what you're talking about, nonetheless, just wait for my full response

Those scans don’t even have anything to do with Yog’s ontology anyways. The first one in Ch.3 is about the issue with reversion (which is re-affirmed after passing the Gate in Ch.4), and the second at the end of ch.2 is supportive evidence regarding the scaling cap. Neither of which have anything to do with Yog inherently not being Tier 0.

You’re just larping.

Using snippets located few paragraphs above chapter 5 is a red flag apparently, good reminder why I'll never debate seriously on this website again.

Lovecraft is a doomed fandom from my experience.

 

[Okstrike]

Using snippets located few paragraphs above chapter 5 is a red flag apparently, good reminder why I'll never debate seriously on this website again.

And? they still don't correlate what so ever, OP used a scan about multiplicity from chapter 3 that has nothing to do with chapter 4 which indictes they lack knowledge or are doing on purpose, just wait for my actual refutation

 

[Hecky2222]

And? they still don't correlate what so ever, OP used a scan about multiplicity from chapter 3 that has nothing to do with chapter 4 which indictes they lack knowledge or are doing on purpose, just wait for my actual refutation

Thats tuff bro. I think Nova is scared

 

[BoastJr]

But you also use scans from chapter 3 as supporting evidence, which is a big red flag that you don't know what you're talking about, nonetheless, just wait for my full response

Stop Trolling Dude

No one Would Read Cthulu Mythos in Big 2026 anyways

 

[Okstrike]

Thats tuff bro. I think Nova is scared

That isn't what the image is supposed to mean, it's joke in the clash royal fandom about the Golem card since you usually save the card until 2x elixir bc of how expensive it is

 

[Darksmash]

And? they still don't correlate what so ever, OP used a scan about multiplicity from chapter 3 that has nothing to do with chapter 4 which indictes they lack knowledge or are doing on purpose, just wait for my actual refutation

Using scans from the same short story to tangentially support an argument that is about something that happens later in the same short story, wow what an insane display of stupidity and lack of knowledge. This would have sounded less stupid if you actually explained why the OP is wrong instead of just acting like basic media literacy is a red flag

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Using scans from the same short story to tangentially support an argument that is about something that happens later in the same short story, wow what an insane display of stupidity and lack of knowledge. This would have sounded less stupid if you actually explained why the OP is wrong instead of just acting like basic media literacy is a red flag

Tone it down.

 

[SuperNova55555]

Thats tuff bro. I think Nova is scared

Shivering rn

 

[Darksmash]

Tone it down.

Can't even call a non productive post stupid?

 

[Okstrike]

Using scans from the same short story to tangentially support an argument that is about something that happens later in the same short story, wow what an insane display of stupidity and lack of knowledge. This would have sounded less stupid if you actually explained why the OP is wrong instead of just acting like basic media literacy is a red flag

First of all, calm your biscuit, you're in a power scaling form it ain't that deep my brotein shake, second of all, i literally said i'd reply in full later, i can't do so now since i've got important stuff that i'm trying to focus on rn, and third of all, it doesn't matter if it takes place in the same story if it has no correlation, that is unless you're telling me that the Outer extension = The Abyss?

 

[Darksmash]

Outer extension = The Abyss

Obviously not but everything in the story is obviously contextually linked so until you actually elaborate on how you think the OP is wrong you aren't really contributing anything to the thread

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Can't even call a non productive post stupid?

No.

 

[Okstrike]

Obviously not but everything in the story is obviously contextually linked so until you actually elaborate on how you think the OP is wrong you aren't really contributing anything to the thread

No it isn't, Carter is shown that everything he believed prior to entering the void is a complete lie, heck, this is literally in one of OPs scans, now let me do my shit in peace

 

[SuperNova55555]

No it isn't, Carter is shown that everything he believed prior to entering the void is a complete lie, heck, this is literally in one of OPs scans, now let me do my shit in peace

Are you talking about the “illusion” stuff? The obvious allegory to change? (Not that this being true or not actually changes anything btw)

 

[Darksmash]

No it isn't, Carter is shown that everything he believed prior to entering the void is a complete lie, heck, this is literally in one of OPs scans, now let me do my shit in peace

In the same way lower spatial dimensions are "illusions" from the perspective of higher ones? Contextual reading is important

 

[Hecky2222]

heck

i am here mister.

 

[Okstrike]

Are you talking about the “illusion” stuff? The obvious allegory to change?

Ah yes, so now we're just cherry picking what is and isn't an allegory with you saying the dimensional stuff is literal when it's in reference to gates which are explicitly undimensioned, don't try to argue on that premise since there's already been several CRTs before you which tried and failed at this, nonetheless i'm done here for now, i will refute this and the actual important stuff later though, have a great rest of your day

 

[Robo432343]

yeah disagree for ultimas reasons

 

[SuperNova55555]

Ah yes, so now we're just cherry picking what is and isn't an allegory with you saying the dimensional stuff is literal, lmao, nonetheless i'm done here for now

What? The text is explicitly clear about what “illusion” here means: the fact the beings below the Gate see the Archetype in fragments. “Reality” is the realization that all Space and Time already exists, and that they are all part of an unchanging whole, rather than the slices being seen one-by-one (which is the source of change).

 

[Darksmash]

yeah disagree for ultimas reasons

Yea tbh Ultima's argument is really convincing

 

[Darksmash]

dimensional stuff is literal when it's in reference to gates which are explicitly undimensioned

The first gate is literally called Earth's "dimensional extension", and it's literally just an amalgamation of Earth across time so it fits quite literally. If we go by your chain of thought then the entire story is irrelevant because Lovecraft constantly contradicts his usage of terms, so either ignore the existence of this story entirely or try to interpret things contextually.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

So as long as the 1-A realm views the mortal cosmology as fictional, it is allowed to operate with space-time slices. We'd just treat the space-time slices as being Outerversal if there's no contradictions to that notion (such as the proposed 1-A realm being part of the lower realm hierarchy in a way that isn't Outerversal).

A 1-A realm cannot be formed through the composition of a lower, material framework. There can’t be any kind of correspondence between the two.

That’s what my message is referring to, the same thing Nova explains in the OP.

Characters or objects residing in higher states of existence surpassing material composition as a whole, and who are therefore completely unreachable and inaccessible to any and all extensions of the aforementioned structures.

A way to explain their superiority over "physical composition" would be to bring attention to the fact that all of the previous tiers can be expressed as the union of constructs of lower tiers.

A 1-A character or realm, on the other hand, fundamentally surpasses lower states of existence, with their sheer superiority not being expressible as the sum, union or permutation of anything in these lesser states. They, in other words, transcend lower existences to the point that those vanish into nothingness

 

[SuperNova55555]

A 1-A realm cannot be formed through the composition of a lower, material framework. There can’t be any kind of correspondence between the two.

That’s what my message is referring to, the same thing Nova explains in the OP.

I think he’s saying you can have a 1-A Space-Time like in a higher R>F layer than the non-1-A Space-Time. He js worded it weird

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

I think he’s saying you can have a 1-A Space-Time like in a higher R>F layer than the non-1-A Space-Time. He js worded it weird

Yeah, I know. But that wasn’t what I was referring to.

That “space-time” would be extremely special in its own right. These days you need a very strong body of evidence to argue that an R>F relationship is 1-A in the first place, since 90% of the time it’s just used as an analogy to express dimensional differences.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@BoastJr

Don't derail the thread again. Thank you.

 

[Qawsedf234]

1-A realm cannot be formed through the composition of a lower, material framework.

It can't, but 1-A and High 1-A itself can be divided internally with higher cosmology. You can have a 1-A layer composed of an (comparatively) infinite dimensional hierarchy. The main thing is that the baseline of the 1-A layer has to possess a qualitative gap in comparison to the standard cosmology. So you can have a 1-A layer that that possess Outerversal equivalents of space-time continuums. The FAQ also notes this, which is what I quoted.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

It can't, but 1-A and High 1-A itself can be divided internally with higher cosmology. You can have a 1-A layer composed of an (comparatively) infinite dimensional hierarchy. The main thing is that the baseline of the 1-A layer has to possess a qualitative gap in comparison to the standard cosmology. So you can have a 1-A layer that that possess Outerversal equivalents of space-time continuums. The FAQ also notes this, which is what I quoted.

Yeah, I know. But that wasn’t what I was referring to.

That “space-time” would be extremely special in its own right. These days you need a very strong body of evidence to argue that an R>F relationship is 1-A in the first place, since 90% of the time it’s just used as an analogy to express dimensional differences.

 

[Hecky2222]

First of all, if you really want to downgrade the Abyss to Low 1-A, you would need use enough scans and to start from the dreamlands to see how powerful it is, cause it is actually near Low 1-A


Here, it says that Hypnos went to a place where consciousness transcends time, space, and where only the concept of pure dreams exists. Dreams are beyond dreams, the language is beyond human thought, and it posses district and deffine. The Dreamlands also contain an infinite hierarchy of infinities and vacua (Which means void, matter, space, nothingness and emptiness) . At the end of this, the narrator and Hypnos went to a barrier.

Beyond the Infinite hierarchy of abysses, lies even more greater infinities

Credit to Okstrike: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Okstrike/Cthulhu_Mythos_revision

I just noticed edit there. Ignoring most obvious not High 1A thing how user pulled Meta Meta after just baseline? This makes no sense