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Yes. This is about Lovecraft. Both Yog's in the same month is crazy icl.
Anyways, I'll try and do this quickly:
By function, Yog is identical to something you’d see out of an Eternalist universe. Where it is “all” not in some simpliciter sense, but “all” in a pantheistic sense, which is to say that the Archetype is merely the universe itself if all possible states of Space and Time had been realized.
This is why it said to be “coterminous” (definition: having the same boundaries or extent in space, time, or meaning) with Space-Time btw, because it's borders are literally Space-Time... since it is Space-Time:
It uses even the exact same analogy for change that Eternalism uses, which is to say that it is merely an “illusion” of experiencing a realized whole in individual slices of it. Which mind you, “illusion” here doesn’t mean that the slices themselves are ontically non-existent, but rather that merely the perceived change is.
That is, it explicitly has part-whole relationships and multiplicity.
The same exact analogy is used again in the text—here re-affirming the same status for spatial dimensions, as well:
^ where it merely states that dimensions are infinitesimal constituents of “archetypal infinity”.
All of this essentially culminates in the fact that ascension through the gates—rather than reversion to a unity of some kind—is contrarily a rise to higher and higher complexity (i.e seeing more and more parts of a whole until you see the whole thing; which is to say that “illusion” is dissolved because you see all states where change can happen simultaneously, so ya know, change doesn’t happen), which is an immediate disqualifier for Tier 0 as Boundless explicitly requires you not to have part-whole distinctions or multiplicity.
Additionally, Tier 0 cannot be seen in slices. Not only do all phenomenological observations terminate at that level, but every part of the Tier 0 is identical to the whole, as well. So the very fact one can see "slices" of the Archetype, and not also see the entire Archetype itself is an immense disqualifier.
To continue,
This one is a particularly less obvious issue but it should be absolutely mentioned. That being, that Carter's ascension--since the very beginning--invites in himself more and more confusion between relations of things, which would be contrary to what is supposed to happen when speaking of reversion to lesser degrees of multiplicity (which is what happens when you 'dissolve' into a Tier 0)
^This same shtick goes on even after passing the Ultimate Gate, where he continues to have an outward experience of his own fragmentation, which again, would be in line with the aforementioned structuralist unity. Which again again, can never be Tier 0.
Other issues are also stuff like Carter still having subject-object division within the Abyss, or him losing his identity and still having differentiated experience from the other Abyssal entities beyond the Gate, which are both big no-nos within Tier 0:
On where it scales, I think Low 1-A is very fitting as per the "undimensional" statements. Because Space and Time are merely slices of a beyond-dimensional totality (the Archetype), it can very easily be analogized to how Proper Classes--whilst themselves unqualified of Space and Time--hold Space and Time as "subsets" within itself. Additionally, I believe Yog should retain Acausality 5 even after being downgraded since it's entire existence is underpinned by the fact that change only happens when witnessing it's parts one-by-one.
Where the rest of the Mythos scales; everyone in the Ultimate Abyss is Low 1-A as what the "Gods" here are, are just beings who can choose to witness the entirety of Yog-Sothoth or not, and everyone below that is hardcapped at High 1-B. Like, all "ascension" is just progressively becoming more-dimensional essentially, which culminates in the undimensional Abyss, so everything below the Abyss has to be hard-capped at High 1-B because it's main characteristic is literally the dissolution of dimensionality:
Hopefully Ultima is willing to descend once more to the mortal plane to see this CRT. He did agree with this in discord last time I checked
Votes:
@Antvasima (Agree with High 1-B)
@Ultima_Reality (Agree with At least High 1-B, possibly 1-A)
@Qawsedf234 (Agree with At least High 1-B, possibly 1-A)
@Vietthai96 (Agree with Low 1-A, possibly 1-A)
Anyways, I'll try and do this quickly:
By function, Yog is identical to something you’d see out of an Eternalist universe. Where it is “all” not in some simpliciter sense, but “all” in a pantheistic sense, which is to say that the Archetype is merely the universe itself if all possible states of Space and Time had been realized.
This is why it said to be “coterminous” (definition: having the same boundaries or extent in space, time, or meaning) with Space-Time btw, because it's borders are literally Space-Time... since it is Space-Time:
It uses even the exact same analogy for change that Eternalism uses, which is to say that it is merely an “illusion” of experiencing a realized whole in individual slices of it. Which mind you, “illusion” here doesn’t mean that the slices themselves are ontically non-existent, but rather that merely the perceived change is.
That is, it explicitly has part-whole relationships and multiplicity.
The same exact analogy is used again in the text—here re-affirming the same status for spatial dimensions, as well:
^ where it merely states that dimensions are infinitesimal constituents of “archetypal infinity”.
All of this essentially culminates in the fact that ascension through the gates—rather than reversion to a unity of some kind—is contrarily a rise to higher and higher complexity (i.e seeing more and more parts of a whole until you see the whole thing; which is to say that “illusion” is dissolved because you see all states where change can happen simultaneously, so ya know, change doesn’t happen), which is an immediate disqualifier for Tier 0 as Boundless explicitly requires you not to have part-whole distinctions or multiplicity.
Additionally, Tier 0 cannot be seen in slices. Not only do all phenomenological observations terminate at that level, but every part of the Tier 0 is identical to the whole, as well. So the very fact one can see "slices" of the Archetype, and not also see the entire Archetype itself is an immense disqualifier.
To continue,
This one is a particularly less obvious issue but it should be absolutely mentioned. That being, that Carter's ascension--since the very beginning--invites in himself more and more confusion between relations of things, which would be contrary to what is supposed to happen when speaking of reversion to lesser degrees of multiplicity (which is what happens when you 'dissolve' into a Tier 0)
^This same shtick goes on even after passing the Ultimate Gate, where he continues to have an outward experience of his own fragmentation, which again, would be in line with the aforementioned structuralist unity. Which again again, can never be Tier 0.
Other issues are also stuff like Carter still having subject-object division within the Abyss, or him losing his identity and still having differentiated experience from the other Abyssal entities beyond the Gate, which are both big no-nos within Tier 0:
On where it scales, I think Low 1-A is very fitting as per the "undimensional" statements. Because Space and Time are merely slices of a beyond-dimensional totality (the Archetype), it can very easily be analogized to how Proper Classes--whilst themselves unqualified of Space and Time--hold Space and Time as "subsets" within itself. Additionally, I believe Yog should retain Acausality 5 even after being downgraded since it's entire existence is underpinned by the fact that change only happens when witnessing it's parts one-by-one.
Where the rest of the Mythos scales; everyone in the Ultimate Abyss is Low 1-A as what the "Gods" here are, are just beings who can choose to witness the entirety of Yog-Sothoth or not, and everyone below that is hardcapped at High 1-B. Like, all "ascension" is just progressively becoming more-dimensional essentially, which culminates in the undimensional Abyss, so everything below the Abyss has to be hard-capped at High 1-B because it's main characteristic is literally the dissolution of dimensionality:
Votes:
@Antvasima (Agree with High 1-B)
@Ultima_Reality (Agree with At least High 1-B, possibly 1-A)
@Qawsedf234 (Agree with At least High 1-B, possibly 1-A)
@Vietthai96 (Agree with Low 1-A, possibly 1-A)
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(why would you need 19 high godly layers bruh)
