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Devil May Cry: Low 1-C

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Hellformer said:
  • The Yggdrasil contains the nine realms (each Low 2-C in size)
  • The realm between realms (which connects these nine realms) is infinite in comparison.
  • The Yggdrasil transcends space and time
This is textbook 1:1 matching if I'm not wrong. So;
  1. Either this thread is approved.
  2. Or nuke both of the 5-D args
Click to expand...
No... I wouldn't go that far. They rightfully deserve that rating no matter what but my point is that what i'm arguing is no different then what they had argued in the past.
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
I was referring to the Netflix one, it contains enough quotes to assume that the mortal universe is accepted as a universe.
Click to expand...
I guess it's
www.cbr.com

Is The Devil May Cry Anime Canon To The Games? (The Answer’s Not as Simple as You Think)

Devil May Cry’s new anime on Netflix is providing its own take on Dante’s character while also providing new lore details that were never in the games
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www.gamesradar.com

Devil May Cry's Netflix news, review, cast, and everything else you need to know

Our complete guide to Devil May Cry season 1
www.gamesradar.com www.gamesradar.com
 
SuperSonicTL said:
There is no claim of some vague "infinite transcending" here. The Chaos Timeline functions is structurally comparable to Realm Between Realms and the comparison to Yggdrasil is actually supportive to Demon World rather than contradictory. In GoW, Yggdrasil’s qualification comes from explicit statements of infinite branch, not merely from the word "transcendence" being used in isolation.

Likewise, references to "beyond space and time" are not being used as a standalone win condition. the borderline context is that Helfilth explicitly described as existing and operating within the Chaos Timeline (and by extension Demon World) or the very fact that it exists as a rift or crack between worlds. At the very least, this establishes that there are domains not constrained by a simple space-time which is key point here.

Lastly, the argument does not depend on some special Q&A interpretations like acausality or BDE, neither am I going to care what it states. If multiple complete 4D universes are separated and organized within a larger structure, then by status quo an additional independent axis is required to account for that separation. A 5D bulk is not bounded by any single space-time continuum and therefore already qualify as transcending space and time in the technical (or common) sense.
Click to expand...
Ok, but where does it state "Transcending HW" or smth similar? I would agree if "space-time" that was mentioned was HW, but I don't see supporting evidence right now.
 
Hellformer said:
Not against the 5-D arg at all, just trying to say that a certain logic being reserved for a certain verse while not being applied to another, is by definition double standards.
Click to expand...
Once again, if you think GoW 5D is invalid, make another CRT
 
Hecky2222 said:
Ok, but where does it state "Transcending HW" or smth similar? I would agree if "space-time" that was mentioned was HW, but I don't see supporting evidence right now.
Click to expand...
This is again why I hate repeating myself often. I'm not saying it "transcends Human World" but I'm saying it is "beyond space and time". "Transcend" and "beyond" are co-exchangeable terms in this context.
 
SuperSonicTL said:
No... I wouldn't go that far. They rightfully deserve that rating no matter what but my point is that what i'm arguing is no different then what they had argued in the past.
Click to expand...
I'm not against GOW scaling at all, just pointing out the inconsistent logic for powerscaling (or whatever you wanna call it)
Hecky2222 said:
Ok, but where does it state "Transcending HW" or smth similar? I would agree if "space-time" that was mentioned was HW, but I don't see supporting evidence right now.
Click to expand...
"Beyond space and time"
In the OP
 
Hecky2222 said:
This can be just immeasurable speed in context
Click to expand...
That's not how immeasurable speed works, aleast on the wiki? Would you claim moving within non-temporal space is immeasurable since there is no value of time to gauge? By that logic, I can say Goku is 2-B because he has already shown feats to fill up the gaps between two universes and thus, gives him 2-C rating in base as a result which can further amplified by multipliers.

Regardless, the context matters which I already pointed out that he is a master of dimensional rift and lives in Nightmare Space that is situated within Chaos timeline that is the rift or crack between worlds where the laws of space and time are not the same. When the text says he "wanders beyond time and space", it's specifically referring to Chaos Timeline that acts as in-between among all space-times.
 
Everyone, let's slow things down for a bit. We're waiting for Planck to speak.
 
Hellformer said:
  • The Yggdrasil contains the nine realms (each Low 2-C in size)
  • The realm between realms (which connects these nine realms) is infinite in comparison.
  • The Yggdrasil transcends space and time
This is textbook 1:1 matching if I'm not wrong. So;
  1. Either this thread is approved.
  2. Or nuke both of the 5-D args
Click to expand...
This isn’t the reasoning for Ygg.

The reason for Yggdrasil's Low-1C is that it created the Realm Between Realms from it's branches, with said branches being infinite. It even has branches that encompass the RBR altogether.

The RBR would need to be 5 dimensional to separate 4 dimensional parallel worlds.

Given the branches are infinite and would be 5 dimensional due to encompassing and manifesting a 5D Realm from themselves, they would be Low-1C.

Essentially, you need to prove that this 5th dimensional axis is actually infinite. Otherwise you don't get to qualify.

However Planck would know way better then I about this.

However even then, from what I've seen DMC would qualify for Low-1C as;
​
  • The Demon World contains multiple infinite physically separated space-times with their own time axis, which would need it to at least have infinite 4 dimensional space and an insignificant 5th dimensional space.
  • The Demon World has it's own time axis, thus having it's own time dimension.
  • Significant/infinite 4D space + 1 Time dimension = 5D.
 
Vietthai96 said:
@Agnaa @Qawsedf234

Oke, i was asked to ping you two here, sorry for bothering
Click to expand...
I can answer, but this is 10 pages deep.

If its about how big you need to be to qualify as Low 1-C, then it has to be an uncountable infinite gap. So most statements and visual showings will not get you there without talking explicitly about bigger or larger dimensions.
 
Robo432343 said:
im ngl these arguments of yours are not really convincing, its better to let a more knowledgeable tier 1 staff member share their thoughts
i have my issues with the proposed rating but these reasons are not it
Click to expand...
Well, Sonic seemed like arguing about Demon World transcending Human World with this evidence. If container argument isn't valid per Agnaa words
SuperSonicTL said:
That's not how immeasurable speed works, aleast on the wiki? Would you claim moving within non-temporal space is immeasurable since there is no value of time to gauge? By that logic, I can say Goku is 2-B because he has already shown feats to fill up the gaps between two universes and thus, gives him 2-C rating in base as a result which can further amplified by multipliers.

Regardless, the context matters which I already pointed out that he is a master of dimensional rift and lives in Nightmare Space that is situated within Chaos timeline that is the rift or crack between worlds where the laws of space and time are not the same. When the text says he "wanders beyond time and space", it's specifically referring to Chaos Timeline that acts as in-between among all space-times.
Click to expand...
To get your point clearly, are you telling me this evidence supports how DW transcends HW or are you arguing about the temporal dimension here now?
 
Pepsimanslover said:
This isn’t the reasoning for Ygg.

The reason for Yggdrasil's Low-1C is that it created the Realm Between Realms from it's branches, with said branches being infinite. It even has branches that encompass the RBR altogether.

The RBR would need to be 5 dimensional to separate 4 dimensional parallel worlds.

Given the branches are infinite and would be 5 dimensional due to encompassing and manifesting a 5D Realm from themselves, with said branches being infinite, they would be Low-1C.

Essentially, you need to prove that this 5th dimensional axis is actually infinite. Otherwise you don't get qualify.
Click to expand...
This is exactly how DW is being argued 5-D, I'd suggest you to read few pages before this one.
Pepsimanslover said:
However Planck would know way better then I about this.

However even then, from what I've seen DMC would qualify as Low-1C as;
  • The Demon World contains multiple infinite physically separated space-times with their own time axis, which would need it to at least have infinite 4 dimensional space and an insignificant 5th dimensional space.
  • The Demon World has it's own time axis, thus having it's own time axis.
  • Significant/infinite 4D space + 1 Time dimension = 5D.
Click to expand...
DW is infinite in comparison**
Similarly how RBR seperates the nine realms and its branches are infinite in comparison
 
Pepsimanslover said:
Essentially, you need to prove that this 5th dimensional axis is actually infinite. Otherwise you don't get to qualify.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the FAQ is a bit vague about this.
Pepsimanslover said:
However even then, from what I've seen DMC would qualify for Low-1C as;
​
  • The Demon World contains multiple infinite physically separated space-times with their own time axis, which would need it to at least have infinite 4 dimensional space and an insignificant 5th dimensional space.
  • The Demon World has it's own time axis, thus having it's own time dimension.
  • Significant/infinite 4D space + 1 Time dimension = 5D.
Click to expand...
This would make the DW's time axis the infinite 5-D, wouldn't it?
 
Hellformer said:
This is exactly how DW is being argued 5-D, I'd suggest you to read few pages before this one.

DW is infinite in comparison**
Similarly how RBR seperates the nine realms and its branches are infinite in comparison
Click to expand...
Some of the scans in OP for DMC I kinda don't find convincing nor anywhere near the level of detail that GoW has to qualify, but that's neither here nor there and I have no reason to discuss it further here nor in private. I don't care enough about DMC anymore ever since the PoC conundrum blasted the verse's good reputation to smithereens, and I have burned many a bridge over this topic.

Should wait for Planck to elaborate further, since there's more to Ygg's rating than what Pepsimanlover stated. Though I doubt it will change much here.
 
Pepsimanslover said:
This isn’t the reasoning for Ygg.

The reason for Yggdrasil's Low-1C is that it created the Realm Between Realms from it's branches, with said branches being infinite. It even has branches that encompass the RBR altogether.

The RBR would need to be 5 dimensional to separate 4 dimensional parallel worlds.

Given the branches are infinite and would be 5 dimensional due to encompassing and manifesting a 5D Realm from themselves, with said branches being infinite, they would be Low-1C.

Essentially, you need to prove that this 5th dimensional axis is actually infinite. Otherwise you don't get to qualify.

However Planck would know way better then I about this.

However even then, from what I've seen DMC would qualify for Low-1C as;
​
  • The Demon World contains multiple infinite physically separated space-times with their own time axis, which would need it to at least have infinite 4 dimensional space and an insignificant 5th dimensional space.
  • The Demon World has it's own time axis, thus having it's own time dimension.
  • Significant/infinite 4D space + 1 Time dimension = 5D.
Click to expand...
but we are not talking about time axis here brother. The argument co-exists around spatial dimension.

I will put it very simple here:
  • There are multiple space-time continuums here in Demon World. It's a universally accepted fact and I don't want to see anyone arguing over it.
  • All of them are separated by a crack or rift between them. Said rift has different laws of space and time.
  • Helfilth lives within that crack and has dedicated a space within it to himself called nightmare space where he usually wanders and his description claims he wanders beyond time and space, utterly solidifying 5D standards if it wasn't obvious by now.
  • Lastly, we have the entire structure being claimed infinite. And for support, we also have Human world being treated as a dimensional slice within it which should be more then enough. I don't need more semi-nonsensical concepts like "techinical infinite" buzzwords anymore. I'm tired of this same stuff repeating continuously to block any verse who should've rightfully gotten it by now.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
I can answer, but this is 10 pages deep.

If its about how big you need to be to qualify as Low 1-C, then it has to be an uncountable infinite gap. So most statements and visual showings will not get you there without talking explicitly about bigger or larger dimensions.
Click to expand...
SuperSonicTL said:
but we are not talking about time axis here brother. The argument co-exists around spatial dimension.

I will put it very simple here:
  • There are multiple space-time continuums here in Demon World. It's a universally accepted fact and I don't want to see anyone arguing over it.
  • All of them are separated by a crack or rift between them. Said rift has different laws of space and time.
  • Helfilth lives within that crack and has dedicated a space within it to himself called nightmare space where he usually wanders and his description claims he wanders beyond time and space, utterly solidifying 5D standards if it wasn't obvious by now.
  • Lastly, we have the entire structure being claimed infinite. And for support, we also have Human world being treated as a dimensional slice within it which should be more then enough. I don't need more semi-nonsensical concepts like "techinical infinite" buzzwords anymore. I'm tired of this same stuff repeating continuously to block any verse who should've rightfully gotten it by now.
Click to expand...
This is the OP overall argument. Though again i'm heavily disagree with the ray of light being interpreted as literal dimensional slice
 
SuperSonicTL said:
To summarize what I’m arguing: Based on the FAQs, what is required is to demonstrate that the Human World is a slice of an infinite, higher-dimensional object—namely the Demon World.
Click to expand...
The FAQ has the following statement:
A cosmology where the four-dimensional spacetime continuum is just the infinitesimal surface of a 5-dimensional object, and etc.
Click to expand...
Which is what you're attempting to argue for. The issue here being a line in an infinite plane is still not an infinitesimal object. If the only argument is this, then I don't see Low 1-C as being valid.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
The FAQ has the following statement:

Which is what you're attempting to argue for. The issue here being a line in an infinite plane is still not an infinitesimal object. If the only argument is this, then I don't see Low 1-C as being valid.
Click to expand...
Nuh uh, that's just a support for dimensional interpretation. The argument also is that the entire structure is stated to be endless/un-ending/infinite.
 
SuperSonicTL said:
argument also is that the entire structure is stated to be endless/un-ending/infinite
Click to expand...
It can be so while having a non-infinite 5th dimension. Just having a natural number like 5 would allow you to contain an infinite number of 4D space-times by virtue of there being an infinite amount of numbers between 0 and 5.
 
You can get Low 1-C so long as all 5 dimensional axes of a space are provably significant in size. Mentions of "uncountably infinite" anything are unneeded nor does the fifth spatiotemporal axis need to be infinite (though this is admittedly a far rarer occurence).

Anyways, I won't touch the God of War whataboutism. I will just say that the realms being explicitly parallel is an extremely fundamental difference between that situation and this one.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
It can be so while having a non-infinite 5th dimension. Just having a natural number like 5 would allow you to contain an infinite number of 4D space-times by virtue of there being an infinite amount of numbers between 0 and 5.
Click to expand...
I don't care about "can be". All the evidence suggest openly it is a 5th dimension space and clearly states: "Infinite/Endless/Un-ending Darkness". No author has any reason to go into more detail about whether is it is continuum-ish infinity or not. Just like how we treat infinite universe statement SHOULD be how we must treat this statement. I wish to put other verses into it but I'm not going to anymore. But the fact remain straightforward. It's infinite and thus, it should be fully infinite. We are NOT talking about infinite expanding space and other misinterpreted stuff. Straight infinity is infinity.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
The FAQ has the following statement:

Which is what you're attempting to argue for. The issue here being a line in an infinite plane is still not an infinitesimal object. If the only argument is this, then I don't see Low 1-C as being valid.
Click to expand...
Lower dimensional is by it's very nature infinitismal slice of higher dimension. 2D->3D, or 3D->4D, or 4D->5D etc. I don't get why something so principal and fundamental needs to be proven all over again. It's like asking for proof of 1+1=2.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
The FAQ has the following statement:

Which is what you're attempting to argue for. The issue here being a line in an infinite plane is still not an infinitesimal object. If the only argument is this, then I don't see Low 1-C as being valid.
Click to expand...
There is another argument that's been overlooked where im wondering if we can still use the qualitative superiority thing for Low 1-C? Because a 4-D realm was stated to be only the entrance compared to the encompassing infinite demon world which also houses other infinite 4-D realms as well
 
Random-Helper323 said:
This would make the DW's time axis the infinite 5-D, wouldn't it?
Click to expand...
Yeah. Essentially any feat involving the DW's space(4D) & time(1D) both at once would be 5D at minimum.
SuperSonicTL said:
but we are not talking about time axis here brother. The argument co-exists around spatial dimension.

I will put it very simple here:
  • There are multiple space-time continuums here in Demon World. It's a universally accepted fact and I don't want to see anyone arguing over it.
  • All of them are separated by a crack or rift between them. Said rift has different laws of space and time.
  • Helfilth lives within that crack and has dedicated a space within it to himself called nightmare space where he usually wanders and his description claims he wanders beyond time and space, utterly solidifying 5D standards if it wasn't obvious by now.
  • Lastly, we have the entire structure being claimed infinite. And for support, we also have Human world being treated as a dimensional slice within it which should be more then enough. I don't need more semi-nonsensical concepts like "techinical infinite" buzzwords anymore. I'm tired of this same stuff repeating continuously to block any verse who should've rightfully gotten it by now.
Click to expand...
None of that really proves that the 5th dimensional axis is infinite.

The wiki is pretty strict on you needing to prove that the 5th dimensional axis is actually infinite. God of War didn't even get it until we proved that specifically. And I mean that last word very literally.

Also I don't see why you don't want to use the time axis. That would give you 5D regardless of whether the 5th dimensional axis was infinite or not lol. Everything you showed at least gives ya infinite 4D space. Just add the time dimension and get 5D bro 🥀
 
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