BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Specterxxxx]

I checked to see if we had any tangible calculations, but almost all of them are 3-5 years old. I was actually going to suggest use a calculation for the speed at which Ichigo hit the Seireitei. There's a calculation for where Candice and the others couldn't react to Ichigo, but that seems outdated too.

Seireitei Calc Updates

vsbattles.fandom.com

Candice? Candice di-

vsbattles.fandom.com

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...ew_Seireitei_Size_(Using_Only_Statements)[/UR

Ichigo was slowing down, that wasn't his top speed. His traveling speed perception blitzing candice was so I am inclined to go that route, provided it's not calc staking but i don't think it was since its in the same scene literally the first thing he does as he lands. But I want to hear others opinion before I begin.

 

[Mommyleona]

Now would using the calc value gained from calculating this blitzing feat to determine the length of the journey be considered calc staking since they are all taking place within same event

still calc stacking

If so why?

just because it happens right after Ichigo lands does not mean it's "the same feat"
and using a result of a calc in another calc is obviously calc stacking

 

[Ralp0054]

So Mommy, you're saying we can't use a result we got from another scene, right?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

So Mommy

Freaky ahh username

 

[Mommyleona]

Freeky ahh username

Freaky ahh banner

 

[Mommyleona]

So Mommy, you're saying we can't use a result we got from another scene, right?

yeah, Ichigo blitzing Bambis with Sonido is completely different from him falling down from the royal palace

 

[Specterxxxx]

yeah, Ichigo blitzing Bambis with Sonido is completely different from him falling down from the royal palace

He didn't blitz them with sonido and he didn't fall down, he blitzed them with the same travel speed he used on the journey. Thats why there is a force of wind released in the anime after he blitzes them but that's not relevant for now.

What about ichigo's speed landing on the seretei then? thats the same speed he applied through out the journey more or less.

 

[Ralp0054]

What about ichigo's speed landing on the seretei then? thats the same speed he applied through out the journey more or less.

I was about to suggest this method to you. I'll calculate it with current data and give you the result.

 

[Mommyleona]

He didn't blitz them with sonido

i misremembered about sonido, but still, it's not the same, he fell down then blitzed them

 

[Specterxxxx]

I was about to suggest this method to you. I'll calculate it with current data and give you the result.

I have already calculated all methods just haven't posted them yet actually....

 

[Specterxxxx]

i misremembered about sonido, but still, it's not the same, he fell down then blitzed them

I didn't say it was the same in that comment, I was correcting you, that it was his travelling speed but since it is calc staking then it's irrelevant.

You didn't answer my question too, which is more important. I would like to hear your thoughts.

 

[Ralp0054]

I have already calculated all methods just haven't posted them yet actually....

The results should still be high.

 

[Mommyleona]

You didn't answer my question too, which is more important. I would like to hear your thoughts.

What about ichigo's speed landing on the seretei then? thats the same speed he applied through out the journey more or less.

far better than what's currently used i think

 

[Specterxxxx]

Also, there is a potential 4A calc from adyneus seriously shaking the realms in EP 28 too in a much higher magnitude than shutara reaitsu did. Additionally, upon rewatch the short battle between ichigo and yhwach was shaking the seretei too.

The results should still be high.

Yes, even higher than the first calc I made.

 

[Specterxxxx]

far better than what's currently used i think

Thank you for your input. I will use that option then.

 

[Ralp0054]

Yes, even higher than the first calc I made.

Forget about using lightning speed or anything like that. This belongs directly to the fall sequence, so it can be used without any problems.

 

[Ralp0054]

Unfortunately, Damage stated that this method is unusable.

Seireitei and Rukongai

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Specterxxxx]

Unfortunately, Damage stated that this method is unusable.

Seireitei and Rukongai

vsbattles.fandom.com

that is a map of the seretei and the rukongai, that is the most useful visual representation we can use. That isn't even a valid counter to calc imo.

We will discuss it at length in the evaluation blog don't worry.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

So Mommy

---

there is a way to reconcile the issue of getting lightning speed from another scene (that one specifically) because unlike Specter's calc which uses Soifon's visual feats to infer superiority the Candice blitz has the benefit of statements as she questions when the hell he got behind her (so it's a statement for the lightning speed as well as the perception blitzing) but I'm not too fond of the method because it introduces circular logic

Ichigo coming down does not perception blitz the bambies, it's the speed of him moving after hitting the ground and appearing behind them that blitzes them, however the later movement is from a speed he can control easily where as his travel speed being something he could not (or at least it is implied to be so imo), places his travel speed naturally above the movement he did for blitzing them, meaning he can have that lightning timer travel speed, that being said another issue begins

auswahlen > Ichigo's travel speed
Ichigo > Bambies Perception > Bambies Reaction & Techniques
Liltotto reacts and dodges from the auswahlen so it goes like this

Auswahlen >>>> Ichigo >>>> Bambies Perception > Bambies Reaction & Techniques ~ Auswahlen

The question goes back to....is his travel speed (which is likely lower than combat speed) really so much faster than them to the point where they cannot even perceive him even tho Liltotto reacts to things that clear distances that takes seconds for what takes ichigo hours, even tho Meninas and some other fodders were able to smash him into the rubble and successfully execute an attack that sends him flying before he's allowed to react?


The plethora of issues is why I wished the basis on FTL came from something that doesn't rely on so many variables as when they are found to be flimsy the scaling falls off

---

Unfortunately, Damage stated that this method is unusable.

Seireitei and Rukongai

vsbattles.fandom.com

With Cartoony Diagrams the dimensions tend to get compactified for simplicity which is why he wasn't accepting, perhaps you can try your luck with the other satellite view diagram of them since that's the only other depiction that showcases the size

What about ichigo's speed landing on the seretei then? thats the same speed he applied through out the journey more or less.

Is this using Seretei ground to Dome Roof Height and dividing by time? I think this could work without being called calc stacking since it is in the same feat

I'm not sure if I'd personally call it "the same speed he applied throughout the journey" since acceleration exists and that value is merely the final level of acceleration we see from him

 

[Specterxxxx]

---

there is a way to reconcile the issue of getting lightning speed from another scene (that one specifically) because unlike Specter's calc which uses Soifon's visual feats to infer superiority the Candice blitz has the benefit of statements as she questions when the hell he got behind her (so it's a statement for the lightning speed as well as the perception blitzing) but I'm not too fond of the method because it introduces circular logic

Ichigo coming down does not perception blitz the bambies, it's the speed of him moving after hitting the ground and appearing behind them that blitzes them, however the later movement is from a speed he can control easily where as his travel speed being something he could not (or at least it is implied to be so imo), places his travel speed naturally above the movement he did for blitzing them, meaning he can have that lightning timer travel speed, that being said another issue begins

auswahlen > Ichigo's travel speed
Ichigo > Bambies Perception > Bambies Reaction & Techniques
Liltotto reacts and dodges from the auswahlen so it goes like this

Auswahlen >>>> Ichigo >>>> Bambies Perception > Bambies Reaction & Techniques ~ Auswahlen

The question goes back to....is his travel speed (which is likely lower than combat speed) really so much faster than them to the point where they cannot even perceive him even tho Liltotto reacts to things that clear distances that takes seconds for what takes ichigo hours, even tho Meninas and some other fodders were able to smash him into the rubble and successfully execute an attack that sends him flying before he's allowed to react?


The plethora of issues is why I wished the basis on FTL came from something that doesn't rely on so many variables as when they are found to be flimsy the scaling falls off

---

This method has issues too, so I think the crash speed method is fine. I am not calcing the distance because of the speed scale. I would get to the shunshui feat after this distance gets approved.

With Cartoony Diagrams the dimensions tend to get compactified for simplicity which is why he wasn't accepting, perhaps you can try your luck with the other satellite view diagram of them since that's the only other depiction that showcases the size

The satellite view diagram doesn't show the rukongai iirc. The reason why the diagram is factual is because it is still meant as a visual representation of the layout of both seretei and rukongai and is consistent in another map depiction. So this proportion is more valid to Kubo’s view and it shouldn't be dismissed because it looks "cartoony".

Is this using Seretei ground to Dome Roof Height and dividing by time? I think this could work without being called calc stacking since it is in the same feat

I'm not sure if I'd personally call it "the same speed he applied throughout the journey" since acceleration exists and that value is merely the final level of acceleration we see from him

Ichigo is trying to slow down here, this is why he literally perception blitzes them later with his travel speed. So I still think this is the best approach here

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I am not calcing the distance because of the speed scale.

Wym

I would get to the shunshui feat after this distance gets approved.

Best of luck

The satellite view diagram doesn't show the rukongai iirc. The reason why the diagram is factual is because it is still meant as a visual representation of the layout of both seretei and rukongai and is consistent in another map depiction. So this proportion is more valid to Kubo’s view and it shouldn't be dismissed because it looks "cartoony".

It does….the image you linked IS the one I’m talking about

Both of them are compactified, just one of them is cartoony between them id choose the one that’s the more informative than goofy, it has the higher chance of getting accepted as well

Ichigo is trying to slow down here, this is why he literally perception blitzes them later with his travel speed. So I still think this is the best approach here

What’s the proof of this? If we accept that what makes you say ichigo’s initial speeds are equal or superior to this?

Has he successfully decelerated to the his lowest speeds if he himself said “I came in too fast” (or something along those lines)

 

[Ralp0054]

With Cartoony Diagrams the dimensions tend to get compactified for simplicity which is why he wasn't accepting, perhaps you can try your luck with the other satellite view diagram of them since that's the only other depiction that showcases the size

As Specter said, Other bird's-eye view depictions are not as detailed and meticulous as the one I used. These are superficial, as in the example where the sun and earth are depicted as apples and marbles; that is, it shows that the rukongai surround the seireitei. The seireitei and rukongai are excessively large, there is absolutely no other material or information as accurate as Kubo's depiction.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

...literally both of them are Kubo's depiction?



In the topic of choosing between the two
I personally think a map-esque diagram that gives you 0 visual contradictions depicts size of a structure better than a diagram that's a miniaturised toy-like illustration which inflates Jidanbo and Roof Sizes of the Houses to several 100s of kms when they're clearly nothing like that but if you wanna try your luck to see if Damage will be convinced with the latter then be my guest

 

[Ralp0054]

...literally both of them are Kubo's depiction?



In the topic of choosing between the two
I personally think a map-esque diagram that gives you 0 visual contradictions depicts size of a structure better than a diagram that's a miniaturised toy-like illustration which inflates Jidanbo and Roof Sizes of the Houses to several 100s of kms when they're clearly nothing like that but if you wanna try your luck to see if Damage will be convinced with the latter then be my guest

Yes, both are Kubo's depictions , but seems like they have a line between the purpose and use of these depictions. I see the position of the buildings and characters here as similar to the unit or character pawns we use on country or world maps in strategy games.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

"let's use the diagram with the bigger results because they have detail"

"also let's also ignore the same details since they horribly contradict everything else"

what are we doing lmao

 

[KingTempest]

Freaky ahh banner

Me clicking the banner to see what she's talking ab- WOAHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

[Infinite9Luck]

As Specter said, Other bird's-eye view depictions are not as detailed and meticulous as the one I used. These are superficial, as in the example where the sun and earth are depicted as apples and marbles; that is, it shows that the rukongai surround the seireitei. The seireitei and rukongai are excessively large, there is absolutely no other material or information as accurate as Kubo's depiction.

This one is definitely better since it is map/diagram like, the other is very cartoonish and might not reflect accurately the proportions imo.

 

[Ralp0054]

"let's use the diagram with the bigger results because they have detail"

"also let's also ignore the same details since they horribly contradict everything else"

what are we doing lmao

You seem to have missed the main point.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Me clicking the banner to see what she's talking ab- WOAHHHHHHHHHHHH

I've had it for years at this point, lol

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Uhhh... Guyz? Why Yhwach have Gremmy's visionary again?

 

[Mommyleona]

Uhhh... Guyz? Why Yhwach have Gremmy's visionary again?

he has everyone's schrifts listed as his abilities... he shouldn't

 

[SuperSonicTL]

he has everyone's schrifts listed as his abilities... he shouldn't

No shit. We should remove them asap.

 

[ichimojii]

look up damage/kt threads lol, 2022~2024 had naruto go thru so much downgrades we weren't even able to implement changes for all of them, all the mid tier ratings on the profiles rn are based on stuff nuked long ago, there was a time we had naruto tier below black clover and one piece ap wise lmao

Understood bleach also used to cap at like country level

someone also tried to take down light fang and kirn not too long ago as well

can you show 1-2 examples of this?

Theirs was a lot of push back with senna's dimension size. People saying it doesn't have a sun when theirs literally sunlight in their. Yet they have kaguya's root time space at solar system when we never see a star in their. It's assumed theirs a star since the others have celestial bodies. Tho theirs not even 100% proof she made all of the to begin with. Same with yukio's dimensions their still not considered bigger then a town even tho some of them have shown celestial bodies. Literally all bleach mid tiers and up should be multi solar system since the same 5 soul reapers who created the valley of screams got negged by soul society arc captains

 

[ichimojii]

No shit. We should remove them asap.

Why? Yhwach has shown he can take bankai,shikai and even reio's abillites why not scrifts. I don't think people understand when yhwach says all powers are his for the taking he means that literally. Like the dued can take knowledge or even anyone of your senses. He can also heal mental illness and disabled people. The scrifts where partially created by him aswell since he is the one who inscribed the missing letters for their abilites. He could even swap scrifts with jugram. So taking scrifts should easily be within his power

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Why? Yhwach has shown he can take bankai,shikai and even reio's abillites why not scrifts. I don't think people understand when yhwach says all powers are his for the taking he means that literally. Like the dued can take knowledge or even anyone of your senses. He can also heal mental illness and disabled people. The scrifts where partially created by him aswell since he is the one who inscribed the missing letters for their abilites. He could even swap scrifts with jugram. So taking scrifts should easily be within his power

That's cool and all but when did Yhwach took Gremmy's powers.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Besides Gremmy, he also didn't include Liltotto's schrift. That's why the G and L schrifts aren't on his profile. By similar logic, Lille Barro's schrift shouldn't be there either. As I understand it, we're only including those whose schrifts are shown as included in his profile. We're not adding anything he could have included but didn't.

 

[ichimojii]

That's cool and all but when did Yhwach took Gremmy's powers.

All sternritters who die return to him. For example James soul is shown to returning to yhwach after death


Since we know yhwach can engrave missing letters to your scrift abilites in theory he can create any power he wants since he's already shown making all letters

 

[Mommyleona]

Why? Yhwach has shown he can take bankai,shikai and even reio's abillites why not scrifts. I don't think people understand when yhwach says all powers are his for the taking he means that literally. Like the dued can take knowledge or even anyone of your senses. He can also heal mental illness and disabled people. The scrifts where partially created by him aswell since he is the one who inscribed the missing letters for their abilites. He could even swap scrifts with jugram. So taking scrifts should easily be within his power

Didn't show them, isnt stated to have them - doesnt have them
It's one thing if we saw him use someone's else schrift after their death, and another when even in situations where he logically should use them he just doesnt, like why didn't Yhwach just pop visionary when fighting Ichibei to insta kill him? or any other schrift for that matter. All we know is that Quincy's reiatsu/power comes back to him after death, not their schrifts
He may be able to take them, but we dont know if he ever did
Also with Jugram it's a special case

 

[Purgy]

Didn't show them, isnt stated to have them - doesnt have them
It's one thing if we saw him use someone's else schrift after their death, and another when even in situations where he logically should use them he just doesnt, like why didn't Yhwach just pop visionary when fighting Ichibei to insta kill him? or any other schrift for that matter. All we know is that Quincy's reiatsu/power comes back to him after death, not their schrifts
He may be able to take them, but we dont know if he ever did
Also with Jugram it's a special case

He is stated to have them and it literally says as much on his profile

Due to Yhwach granting the Schrifts and absorbing all of the abilities of his Sternritter when they die, it is accepted that Yhwach may have the abilities of Jugram Haschwalth, Pernida Parnkgjas, Askin Nakk Le Vaar, Bambietta Basterbine, As Nodt, Bazz-B, Cang Du, Quilge Opie, PePe Waccabrada, Gerard Valkyrie, Driscoll Berci, Berenice Gabrielli, Jerome Guizbatt, Mask De Masculine, NaNaNa Najahkoop, Gremmy Thoumeaux, Shaz Domino, Guenael Lee, Nianzol Weizol, Lille Barro, Royd Lloyd, and Loyd Lloyd; however he has not displayed the majority of these abilities abilities in the series. Details of these abilities can be found under the 'With Sternritter's Schrifts' key.

While their wounds were healing, the knowledge they'd gained, abilities they'd acquired, talents that blossomed, all of it... were ingrained in the pieces of the child's soul given to them... all of that would return to the child... when they died.

This has been debated dozen of times over the past six+ years, and yet it has always remained on his profile because the statement is explicitly clear.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

All sternritters who die return to him. For example James soul is shown to returning to yhwach after death


Since we know yhwach can engrave missing letters to your scrift abilites in theory he can create any power he wants since he's already shown making all letters

He is stated to have them and it literally says as much on his profile

This has been debated dozen of times over the past six+ years, and yet it has always remained on his profile because the statement is explicitly clear.

That's cool and all but why gremmy specifically? Are we forgetting the events including that brain in the novels that took place after Yhwach died?

Is wiki that soft to allow such hypothetical reasons?