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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion
- Thread starter Zoro21043
- Start date
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yeah, Ichigo blitzing Bambis with Sonido is completely different from him falling down from the royal palace
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He didn't blitz them with sonido and he didn't fall down, he blitzed them with the same travel speed he used on the journey. Thats why there is a force of wind released in the anime after he blitzes them but that's not relevant for now.
What about ichigo's speed landing on the seretei then? thats the same speed he applied through out the journey more or less.
Ralp0054
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I was about to suggest this method to you. I'll calculate it with current data and give you the result.
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i misremembered about sonido, but still, it's not the same, he fell down then blitzed them
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I have already calculated all methods just haven't posted them yet actually....
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I didn't say it was the same in that comment, I was correcting you, that it was his travelling speed but since it is calc staking then it's irrelevant.
You didn't answer my question too, which is more important. I would like to hear your thoughts.
Ralp0054
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The results should still be high.
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far better than what's currently used i think
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Also, there is a potential 4A calc from adyneus seriously shaking the realms in EP 28 too in a much higher magnitude than shutara reaitsu did. Additionally, upon rewatch the short battle between ichigo and yhwach was shaking the seretei too.
Yes, even higher than the first calc I made.
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Thank you for your input. I will use that option then.
Ralp0054
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Forget about using lightning speed or anything like that. This belongs directly to the fall sequence, so it can be used without any problems.
Ralp0054
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Unfortunately, Damage stated that this method is unusable. 
vsbattles.fandom.com
Seireitei and Rukongai
vsbattles.fandom.com
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that is a map of the seretei and the rukongai, that is the most useful visual representation we can use. That isn't even a valid counter to calc imo.Unfortunately, Damage stated that this method is unusable.
Seireitei and Rukongai
We will discuss it at length in the evaluation blog don't worry.
Ghostimuscrime
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there is a way to reconcile the issue of getting lightning speed from another scene (that one specifically) because unlike Specter's calc which uses Soifon's visual feats to infer superiority the Candice blitz has the benefit of statements as she questions when the hell he got behind her (so it's a statement for the lightning speed as well as the perception blitzing) but I'm not too fond of the method because it introduces circular logic
Ichigo coming down does not perception blitz the bambies, it's the speed of him moving after hitting the ground and appearing behind them that blitzes them, however the later movement is from a speed he can control easily where as his travel speed being something he could not (or at least it is implied to be so imo), places his travel speed naturally above the movement he did for blitzing them, meaning he can have that lightning timer travel speed, that being said another issue begins
auswahlen > Ichigo's travel speed
Ichigo > Bambies Perception > Bambies Reaction & Techniques
Liltotto reacts and dodges from the auswahlen so it goes like this
Auswahlen >>>> Ichigo >>>> Bambies Perception > Bambies Reaction & Techniques ~ Auswahlen
The question goes back to....is his travel speed (which is likely lower than combat speed) really so much faster than them to the point where they cannot even perceive him even tho Liltotto reacts to things that clear distances that takes seconds for what takes ichigo hours, even tho Meninas and some other fodders were able to smash him into the rubble and successfully execute an attack that sends him flying before he's allowed to react?
The plethora of issues is why I wished the basis on FTL came from something that doesn't rely on so many variables as when they are found to be flimsy the scaling falls off
With Cartoony Diagrams the dimensions tend to get compactified for simplicity which is why he wasn't accepting, perhaps you can try your luck with the other satellite view diagram of them since that's the only other depiction that showcases the sizeUnfortunately, Damage stated that this method is unusable.
Seireitei and Rukongai
Is this using Seretei ground to Dome Roof Height and dividing by time? I think this could work without being called calc stacking since it is in the same feat
I'm not sure if I'd personally call it "the same speed he applied throughout the journey" since acceleration exists and that value is merely the final level of acceleration we see from him
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This method has issues too, so I think the crash speed method is fine. I am not calcing the distance because of the speed scale. I would get to the shunshui feat after this distance gets approved.
there is a way to reconcile the issue of getting lightning speed from another scene (that one specifically) because unlike Specter's calc which uses Soifon's visual feats to infer superiority the Candice blitz has the benefit of statements as she questions when the hell he got behind her (so it's a statement for the lightning speed as well as the perception blitzing) but I'm not too fond of the method because it introduces circular logic
Ichigo coming down does not perception blitz the bambies, it's the speed of him moving after hitting the ground and appearing behind them that blitzes them, however the later movement is from a speed he can control easily where as his travel speed being something he could not (or at least it is implied to be so imo), places his travel speed naturally above the movement he did for blitzing them, meaning he can have that lightning timer travel speed, that being said another issue begins
auswahlen > Ichigo's travel speed
Ichigo > Bambies Perception > Bambies Reaction & Techniques
Liltotto reacts and dodges from the auswahlen so it goes like this
Auswahlen >>>> Ichigo >>>> Bambies Perception > Bambies Reaction & Techniques ~ Auswahlen
The question goes back to....is his travel speed (which is likely lower than combat speed) really so much faster than them to the point where they cannot even perceive him even tho Liltotto reacts to things that clear distances that takes seconds for what takes ichigo hours, even tho Meninas and some other fodders were able to smash him into the rubble and successfully execute an attack that sends him flying before he's allowed to react?
The plethora of issues is why I wished the basis on FTL came from something that doesn't rely on so many variables as when they are found to be flimsy the scaling falls off
The satellite view diagram doesn't show the rukongai iirc. The reason why the diagram is factual is because it is still meant as a visual representation of the layout of both seretei and rukongai and is consistent in another map depiction. So this proportion is more valid to Kubo’s view and it shouldn't be dismissed because it looks "cartoony".
Ichigo is trying to slow down here, this is why he literally perception blitzes them later with his travel speed. So I still think this is the best approach here
Ghostimuscrime
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Wym
Best of luck
It does….the image you linked IS the one I’m talking about
Both of them are compactified, just one of them is cartoony between them id choose the one that’s the more informative than goofy, it has the higher chance of getting accepted as well
What’s the proof of this? If we accept that what makes you say ichigo’s initial speeds are equal or superior to this?
Has he successfully decelerated to the his lowest speeds if he himself said “I came in too fast” (or something along those lines)
Ralp0054
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As Specter said, Other bird's-eye view depictions are not as detailed and meticulous as the one I used. These are superficial, as in the example where the sun and earth are depicted as apples and marbles; that is, it shows that the rukongai surround the seireitei. The seireitei and rukongai are excessively large, there is absolutely no other material or information as accurate as Kubo's depiction.
Ghostimuscrime
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...literally both of them are Kubo's depiction?
In the topic of choosing between the two
I personally think a map-esque diagram that gives you 0 visual contradictions depicts size of a structure better than a diagram that's a miniaturised toy-like illustration which inflates Jidanbo and Roof Sizes of the Houses to several 100s of kms when they're clearly nothing like that but if you wanna try your luck to see if Damage will be convinced with the latter then be my guest
In the topic of choosing between the two
I personally think a map-esque diagram that gives you 0 visual contradictions depicts size of a structure better than a diagram that's a miniaturised toy-like illustration which inflates Jidanbo and Roof Sizes of the Houses to several 100s of kms when they're clearly nothing like that but if you wanna try your luck to see if Damage will be convinced with the latter then be my guest
Ralp0054
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Yes, both are Kubo's depictions , but seems like they have a line between the purpose and use of these depictions. I see the position of the buildings and characters here as similar to the unit or character pawns we use on country or world maps in strategy games.
Ghostimuscrime
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"let's use the diagram with the bigger results because they have detail"
"also let's also ignore the same details since they horribly contradict everything else"
what are we doing lmao
"also let's also ignore the same details since they horribly contradict everything else"
what are we doing lmao
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This one is definitely better since it is map/diagram like, the other is very cartoonish and might not reflect accurately the proportions imo.
Ralp0054
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You seem to have missed the main point.
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Uhhh... Guyz? Why Yhwach have Gremmy's visionary again?
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he has everyone's schrifts listed as his abilities... he shouldn't
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No shit. We should remove them asap.
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Understood bleach also used to cap at like country level
Theirs was a lot of push back with senna's dimension size. People saying it doesn't have a sun when theirs literally sunlight in their. Yet they have kaguya's root time space at solar system when we never see a star in their. It's assumed theirs a star since the others have celestial bodies. Tho theirs not even 100% proof she made all of the to begin with. Same with yukio's dimensions their still not considered bigger then a town even tho some of them have shown celestial bodies. Literally all bleach mid tiers and up should be multi solar system since the same 5 soul reapers who created the valley of screams got negged by soul society arc captains
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Why? Yhwach has shown he can take bankai,shikai and even reio's abillites why not scrifts. I don't think people understand when yhwach says all powers are his for the taking he means that literally. Like the dued can take knowledge or even anyone of your senses. He can also heal mental illness and disabled people. The scrifts where partially created by him aswell since he is the one who inscribed the missing letters for their abilites. He could even swap scrifts with jugram. So taking scrifts should easily be within his power
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That's cool and all but when did Yhwach took Gremmy's powers.
Apollonir.Scale
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Besides Gremmy, he also didn't include Liltotto's schrift. That's why the G and L schrifts aren't on his profile. By similar logic, Lille Barro's schrift shouldn't be there either. As I understand it, we're only including those whose schrifts are shown as included in his profile. We're not adding anything he could have included but didn't.
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All sternritters who die return to him. For example James soul is shown to returning to yhwach after death
Since we know yhwach can engrave missing letters to your scrift abilites in theory he can create any power he wants since he's already shown making all letters
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Didn't show them, isnt stated to have them - doesnt have them
It's one thing if we saw him use someone's else schrift after their death, and another when even in situations where he logically should use them he just doesnt, like why didn't Yhwach just pop visionary when fighting Ichibei to insta kill him? or any other schrift for that matter. All we know is that Quincy's reiatsu/power comes back to him after death, not their schrifts
He may be able to take them, but we dont know if he ever did
Also with Jugram it's a special case
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He is stated to have them and it literally says as much on his profile
This has been debated dozen of times over the past six+ years, and yet it has always remained on his profile because the statement is explicitly clear.
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That's cool and all but why gremmy specifically? Are we forgetting the events including that brain in the novels that took place after Yhwach died?He is stated to have them and it literally says as much on his profile
This has been debated dozen of times over the past six+ years, and yet it has always remained on his profile because the statement is explicitly clear.
Is wiki that soft to allow such hypothetical reasons?
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why didn't Yhwach use them, ever, is he stupid?He is stated to have them and it literally says as much on his profile
This has been debated dozen of times over the past six+ years, and yet it has always remained on his profile because the statement is explicitly clear.
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I don't know why Gremmy specifically is included considering he always had his ability and I don't recall it being suggested that Yhwach shared a piece of his soul with him.
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