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Artoria Pendragon (Saber) & EMIYA (Archer) Vs Zephyro (Honkai: Star Rail X Fate/Stay Night)
- Thread starter CastoriceTheFifth
- Start date
Zanesucksatlife
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Following Vs MatchUp will give an answer on this in a bit
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This could either be the funniest fight or the biggest stomp
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn
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I want to point out that both Saber and Archer have Servant Physiology, and Zephyros doesn't seem to have any way around their invulnerability.
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Everyone in Honkai bypasses servant invulnerability
(The main reason how Archer’s own profile has like 3 different in verses matches)
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn
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Oh, was that decided in a content revision thread at some point?
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It was decided when they're not invulnerable in the story mode against pathstriders (Yes they stated they are at a disadvantage against the pathstriders empowered by the verse's power system imaginary/honkai energy)
The original idea was to give imaginary/honkai energy invulnerability negation but @Vietthai96 said in a different matchup that the powersystem is supernatural to bypass it
Imaginary Energy (Honkai)
Paths are congregations of Imaginary energy, born as manifestations of universal philosophical concepts. Those who believe in and practice the concepts behind a certain path become Pathstriders,[1] and the path that they happen to follow will change in accordance with their own philosophies and...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Honkai Energy
The Honkai is a cosmic force of nature that pervades the shared multiverse of Honkai Impact 3rd. Honkai Energy is the main byproduct of all manifestations of the Honkai across universes. Sufficient concentrations of Honkai Energy radiation can cause several adverse effects on all living beings...
vsbattles.fandom.com
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Destruction & Nihility combo is one of the stupidest things you could get in this verse, Zephyro bypasses their invulnerability so.. Voting Zephyro, this is a mismatch ngl
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Nether after finding out off site Zephyro only ever uses Basic Nihility shit rarely and not the extreme one Acheron uses 
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn
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Ok, I guess.It was decided when they're not invulnerable in the story mode against pathstriders (Yes they stated they are at a disadvantage against the pathstriders empowered by the verse's power system imaginary/honkai energy)
The original idea was to give imaginary/honkai energy invulnerability negation but @Vietthai96 said in a different matchup that the powersystem is supernatural to bypass it
Imaginary Energy (Honkai)
Paths are congregations of Imaginary energy, born as manifestations of universal philosophical concepts. Those who believe in and practice the concepts behind a certain path become Pathstriders,[1] and the path that they happen to follow will change in accordance with their own philosophies and...Honkai Energy
The Honkai is a cosmic force of nature that pervades the shared multiverse of Honkai Impact 3rd. Honkai Energy is the main byproduct of all manifestations of the Honkai across universes. Sufficient concentrations of Honkai Energy radiation can cause several adverse effects on all living beings...
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Do you have thoughts on the fight
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Is this not a mismatch. Don't HSR fate characters scale to cornerstone level (on par with Aventurine) so Zephyro is 10x stronger than both of them? He should just one tap em both with a solar system sized aoe after they dodge him enough.
BoastJr
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10 Topaz vs 1 Zephyro when
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i vote earth because it is a 6D planet
Also whats Archer's concept hax at?
Also whats Archer's concept hax at?
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How does Zephyro not stomp here…
BoastJr
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Because Emiya and Artoria will do some Jujutsu Shenanigans and jump him
I was taught this by Jumpjutsu Kaisen
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Does adding Lancer here help
Do you have any other matchup suggestion to replace Zephyro
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I might be crazy but throw em up against Mortal Mydei and Pre-Dawnmaker Phainon. Mydei already looks like Gilgamesh, pretty sure they're also around cornerstone tier
Mbpoops
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Rho aias duh
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Damn, this is not a fight 
KingOfDarknessBelow
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My goat Zephyro obviously, out of all the LR my stocks are on him and Celenova
Elesia011
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That's quite an insanely bold claim to make, but that's not actually the case. I'm not even sure how you arrived at that conclusion, assuming you're familiar with the Nasuverse power system.
Context here matters a lot yet it seems to have been discarded.
Was there a CRT for this ?
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Because everyone on the verse was able to harm Servants..?
Elesia011
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But here’s the question: who said HSR Servants benefit from standard Servant physiology? It feels like some are mixing things up, and here’s why:
1. There are literally no Mysteries in the HSR universe the very thing that powers Servant physiology. Saber explicitly states she can’t draw power from magic or mysticism in that world.
2. Servants in the HSR verse aren’t even composed of spiritrons and ether. It’s clearly stated that these fundamental components of their existence have been replaced by something else.
3. Servant invulnerability, the magic system, and everything else stem explicitly from laws induced by the Root itself. Claiming any form of negation or activity of the Fate power system in the HSR universe would indirectly imply that the entirety of the Honkaiverse is a byproduct of the Root.
I think we're heading toward some critical misconceptions in how the collab event is being interpreted, but maybe I'm the biased one. Whoever originally came to the conclusion about HSR characters being able to negate Servant invulnerability can show me the core arguments that led them to that conclusion.
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The Nasuverse supporters that helped make the profile such as @ShinMaximillion
Mysteries exist in HSR, Its just degraded. No magic is weird too considering Archer can still use his innate reality marble, which is explicitly magical energy related, alongside 2 other servants being able to use their reality marbles/bounded fields. They are explicitly stated to being servants and can use all their servant related abilities. Hell, they can all go spirit form. Even their class related innate magic resistance is still prominent in the story.
This means nothing when nothing else changed about how they function. Hell, we dont even know what changed and its vague.
Or they bypass it because its a literal supernatural power system that Imaginary/Honkai Energy fits the requirements of bypassing as told by @Vietthai96 and @ShinMaximillion
Elesia011
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Then I may have some few words with them.
Unless you can back that up with clear scans, I am not taking these claims at face value.
They have already stated that, regardless of your claims here, the lore tied to the collab clarifies they cannot draw power from magic or Mysteries. Just read the profile you linked yourself. It literally says Masters do not even supply Servants with magical energy.
This point is further emphasized by the fact that their fundamental composition of servants differs from their regular selves (how can you even talk about physiology again assuming you know what the term points at)
You are essentially taking narrative devices and presenting them as combat feats.
On a side note, Mysteries are a law from the Nasuverse, upheld by its foundational principles (like the Root or the seat of the gods), rather than something innate to Servants alone. Why and how would you assume such mechanisms are in effect in the Star Rail world, unless you later try to justify it by claiming "the Root exists in the Hoyoverse"?
Understand that even if their skills seems to work just fine, the fact that the power behind it is not magical energy changes everything the more in the absence of mysteries which is a fondamental concept in the nasuverse.
How is this not significant? The very thing that was replaced is the mechanism from which their innate resistances and invulnerability originate.
The Honkai energy system is as complex as that of the Nasuverse, and that's a fair point, but their effects and governing mechanisms are very distinct. I don't feel the need to expand on this side of the lore just to prove my argument
ExcelsisBerny
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I agree with Elesia
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you can have your discussion on whether servant invul is something they can negate or not in a different thread
but the matter of fact is this version of emiya and saber is affected by them
and they are the one fighting not your nasuverse only servants
so whatever conclusion you get in that subject have no bearing on this current match up
but the matter of fact is this version of emiya and saber is affected by them
and they are the one fighting not your nasuverse only servants
so whatever conclusion you get in that subject have no bearing on this current match up
Elesia011
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We may revisit this if supporters attempt to arbitrarily grant such abilities to certain Hoyoverse characters.
For clarification, the only reason I intervened here was due to the original poster extrapolating Fate-style invulnerability and resistance to their HSR counterparts in an attempt to bolster the Hoyoverse characters with a line of reasoning I disagree with. Other than that, I won’t interfere with the matchup itself.
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Are we serious? Honkai is more haxxed than whatever Nasuverse has going on, heck even PGR is more haxxed in terms of sheer abilities, I could guarantee this
There's no "extrapolations" if HSR Saber & Archer were confirmed to be post-FSN, it's insane how you even thought of this idea as if everyone in Honkaiverse has Servant Physiology, you're just thinking too much lmfao
Like if the collab which was overviewed by Kinoko Nasu himself and he decided it so that any Honkai characters bypass Servant Invulnerability, so be it, it's the author himself lol like I don't think everyone has any choices here unless you magically say "but it's the death of author!!" which genuinely doesn't work at all
ShinMaximillion
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Right here, Elesia.
Glossing this over since I was tagged specifically, I assume it's the usual Mystery argument. Oh well, which sort of Mystery are we talking about in general? Servants physiology?
I guess I'll play the devil's advocate a bit.
Mystery comes in many forms; a single entity can have multitude forms of Mystery. Human Order negation is a mystery, Ether negation is a mystery, spiritual body is a mystery etc. It differs per individual; it's not quite dissimilar to negation.
Lugh Beowulf, for instance, has his specific mystery rank quality higher than that of Archetype: Earth and his mystery extends to potentially LUCA, up the Phylogenetic Tree, which is around 4 billion years, one of the top tiers in Mystery. Yet, his mystery does not extend to negating bullets or rockets or anything of the physical sort, and he needs to dodge them or change his form to make himself more durable to endure them; otherwise, he'd be hurt terribly or from the brunt of 50-ton punches from Thames Troll, which was stated to crush him. It's purely ether-based, so ether-induced bullets or rockets would be negated by Beo easily.
None of this would apply to the spiritual body mystery, for example.
Mysteries degrade when elucidated, which is why Age of God magecraft is referred to as Magic, for example. I think this is a reference to Honkai's heavy space sci-fi setting, so mysteries degrading statement seems to relate to the mysteries being elucidated/explained in general, not to say mystery is an inherent law in Hoyo. Mind you, I think it's just Nasu doing his fun expositioning. Any future technologies taken from the Age of Man to the Age of Gods can become a mystery, since future technologies are mysteries for this reason. Mysteries are like 'uncertain laws' as observed from the reality of the common human collective unconscious and laws imposed on the world. I like to say this a lot, but the world being a close emanation to the Root is probably because of this, since, regardless of any Age, it retains its mysteries, which I'll go into at your Root point.
It's obviously a general preface of Mystery since I have more to add, and I'm also not quite caught up on the mystery thread fellow supporters are pushing due to irl exams prep, but I wouldn't like to clog this HSR thread either.
Anyway, an instance to spiritual mystery, specifically, might I add, for servants, for one, is talked about in FSN itself.
Quote—
To make matters worse, Servants can turn into spirit form.
Humans who lack the ability to sense the supernatural can't even see them.
But as soon as Servants materialize, they can interact with the physical world.
You could say they're the ultimate weapons.
No modern technology or weaponry can affect a spiritual form.
Our attacks don't work on them, but they can hurt us.
It's a depressingly one-sided arrangement.
From a normal person's point of view, Servants may as well be natural disasters.
When people die to an invisible killer, those deaths will just be treated as accidents or natural causes.
'Spirit form' here is referring to etherising, which I think applies still because CastoriceTheFifth did show me an instance where Cu etherised and turned into a spirit form like EMIYA did in early UBW, for eg, which Shirou notes he almost disappeared from view, so this 'form' of mystery should apply to them. Artoria can't etherise due to being a Demi-Heroic Spirit in FSN, for example, but she's a proper Heroic Spirit (After attaining the Grail)
This, however, is a good point. And yes, I agree.
Though I'm not sure if the collab rules for the wiki allow this or not?
Practically, if we're speaking in strict terms. We're stated Magic Circuits connect to the One, through the soul, by Sion in Melty Blood (RAWs say it is Root— you get the point), and I recall Magic Circuits being used in other prillya collabs by other Type Moon characters, such as this.
(hyperlinks aren't working for me for some reason right now, so do excuse me, especially with the earlier FSN quote too)
That all being said, I'm neutral to this, and will agree to whatever it works out according to the wiki collab rules, which I'm not quite certain of, as I didn't have any incentive to check them for any reason yet.
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Mbpoops
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Was this with robin’s servant (forgot her name lmao)
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It was old clockie inside of Mr Reca’s bounded field
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