• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

(ACCEPTED) Sliming all Honkai Scaling (GONE BRUTAL)

Status
Not open for further replies.
BoastJr said:
IMG-3368.jpg


2-C is Dragonball's Turf ngl

Can't wait for this peak matchup to spawn oneday
Click to expand...
I heard you're strong.
 
Btw, I'm reading the CN scans from the durandal vn rn, and I think there might be a huge misunderstanding regarding the dimensions and membranes
 
Super_Nova said:
The anchor’s having everything to do with SoQ’s compactified dimensions…???
Click to expand...
Except for the fact that the dimensions are not treated as compactified, and, even if they were, they are still treated as higher planes that see the lower as fiction, so… I guess we shouldn’t be surprised when a soft sci-fi verse doesn’t play by very theoretical science rules all the time.
 
Super_Nova said:
Ok, so I believe the Honkai fandom had their fun and stuff with the recent L1A upgrade.

Unfortunately for them though, this gave me time to ruminate on further scaling. Particularly regarding the context of certain concepts within the verse, as I, self-admittedly, am a total Hi3 noob.

And as a result of this, I’ve come to the conclusion that this verse... is hot ass.




Exhibit A
{Sea of Quanta}​

I'd like to begin this with the words of our good friend, Vietthai:


Now, why is this relevant? Well, because it ties into general lore about Honkai which is that the Imaginary Tree is equal, is born from, and literally grows through the Sea of Quanta. The same Imaginary Tree, which for all intents and purposes, was upgraded to Low 1-A in the previous CRT.

The reason then, why this is particularly damming, is the issue that the Sea of Quanta is 11-dimensional:

SBubble3-(1).webp

And I don't believe I am required to explain why something Low 1-A being not only equal to, but also born from an 11D thing, isn't an immediate disqualifier.

Now, I can already hear someone saying:
  • But Nova, that scan says "Ether Bathtub", not "Sea of Quanta."
And to that, I can simply present this rather recent explanation of the SoQ; an explanation, which directly identifies the Sea as the Bathtub:


Not that, mind you, the scans already present in the cosmology page didn't functionally say the same thing; they just conflated the terms for different things out of nowhere.

And another thing I might hear is in relation to Imaginary and Real Space:
  • Well, the cosmos is called the Imaginary Tree, so it must mean that the Tree only extends to the physical universe, and not Imaginary Space (what is Low 1-A here.)
Issue is, that just as of recently in 3.7, we have attained this statement:
Screenshot-2026-01-06-234849.png

For the uninitiated, this conversation is happening within Path Space, aka Imaginary Space. And in this same Path Space, Cyrene clearly stating "Cosmos's real Space-Time", implies that the "Cosmos", or the Imaginary Tree, contains both Imaginary and Real Space. Which is to say, that the Imaginary Tree itself, as the "composite whole", is Low 1-A--subsuming both Real and Imaginary Space.

Other proof for it can be stuff like this (singularity here referring to main proponents of the Low 1-A Imaginary Space scale), or for other stuff like this:

Which clearly state the source of Imaginary Energy is the Trunk. A role, which is the equivalent of Imaginary Space.

So what's the conclusion? Well, the Imaginary Tree should go down from Low 1-A, to the same tier which Sea of Quanta resides in.

Which, speaking off... hehe.



Exhibit B
{Sea of Quanta 2.0: Compactification}
​
I will present merely these 3 scans:
Screenshot-29.webp


SBubble5.webp


Pv-Rdx-BZ-d-1.webp


Now, if you've read them, then you should hopefully be clear on the mechanics behind how the Bubble Worlds are formed; in that, the various membranes of the Sea of Quanta, by having a distance small enough so that the very membranes (i.e dimensions) that make them up, overlap within each other, creating a 4-dimensional space.

Which is to say: the spatial dimensions of the Sea of Quanta are compactified, or in other words, too small to qualify for tiering.

And if you'll notice in the cosmology blog, you'll realize that this description is consistent every time it is mentioned (I mean, "tied like a knot"? Come on.) Heck, the verse literally affirms, not just M-Theory, but particularly the most popular version of it: string theory. Which is compactified.

In response to this fact, I had been mentioned by the verse-supporters this. In that, the dimensions, even if compacted, would qualify for size since they are infinite.

Well, three problems:
  1. The scans refer to the number of dimensions, not their size.
  2. This would contradict the earlier statements about SoQ.
  3. Considering that the verse isn't High 1-B right now, I can accurately assume that there's a very good reason why these scans are untrustworthy. (Which I can expect is to do with the usage of the verb "can be")
And even if they were actually talking about size, and even if they were truly infinite; they still wouldn't work here. For this, I'd rather just use the words of @BestMGQScalerEver:


So then, what does this leave us? Well, this. In here, although there is little to see--sort of clarifies an R>F relationship between at least 1 single higher dimension, which might be applicable for +1D.



Conclusion
​
So with all that's been said, I propose that the entire verse is downgraded from already-shaky Possibly Low 1-A down to the measly tier of 2-C (for containing SoQ and IT as definitive and distinct universes), or depending on how we treat the last Welt scan, even Low 1-C. (Should be mentioned, that if Tier 2 is to be the majority-decided conclusion here, the exact number of universes can be argued and debated [preferably in a second]. I just gave the bare-minimum tier possible for the verse.]


Votes:

@Planck69 (Agree for compactification; waiting for Low 1-A)
Click to expand...

Can you provide me with a scan saying that Path space = Imaginary space?
 
I also want to add that Durandal only being able to go to Imaginary Tree because she is fused with extra dimensions where these dimensions being the dimensions of the bubble world from Durandal Visual Novel which can be up to 11 Dimensional. Bubble world having extra dimensions already mean that some part of Ironmask explanation is still correct like how Bubble worlds can inherit up to 11D from Ether bathtub. It's crazy to throw away all past explanations just because one things is later shown otherwise (something that doesn't impact previous explanation as a whole anyway)
 
SweetDao said:
if they become straight, it's fine, trust
Click to expand...
gay dimensions waow

Breakdown said:
Except for the fact that the dimensions are not treated as compactified, and, even if they were, they are still treated as higher planes that see the lower as fiction, so… I guess we shouldn’t be surprised when a soft sci-fi verse doesn’t play by very theoretical science rules all the time.
Click to expand...
If dimensions can be compactified by getting close to each other, that’s an anti-feat. You can’t just say “oh they’re infinite when they’re straightened out” or whatever. An anti-feat is an anti-feat. That’s just how dimensions work.

Like, bulks don’t curl.

Irykamiii said:
Can you provide me with a scan saying that Path space = Imaginary space?
Click to expand...
Paths = Path Energy = Imaginary Energy. They’re the same thing. Masterless Imaginary Energy is Path Energy before an Aeon takes over.

Not that, Cyrene didn’t just juxtapose Path Space with Real Space but aigh.
 
The images here are pretty damning evidence of 11D i mean multiple times its just outright stated to be 11 dimensional and in chapter 2 its just straight up called an 11 dimensional bulk space so the SoQ should be at least bare minimum 1-C
 
Weaver261 said:
I also want to add that Durandal only being able to go to Imaginary Tree because she is fused with extra dimensions where these dimensions being the dimensions of the bubble world from Durandal Visual Novel which can be up to 11 Dimensional. Bubble world having extra dimensions already mean that some part of Ironmask explanation is still correct like how Bubble worlds can inherit up to 11D from Ether bathtub. It's crazy to throw away all past explanations just because one things is later shown otherwise (something that doesn't impact previous explanation as a whole anyway)
Click to expand...
The same Imaginary Tree that’s also compacted lol?
 
Mbpoops said:
The images here are pretty damning evidence of 11D i mean multiple times its just outright stated to be 11 dimensional and in chapter 2 its just straight up called an 11 dimensional bulk space so the SoQ should be at least bare minimum 1-C
Click to expand...
Nobody is arguing there aren't 11 dimensions. What OP is arguing is that those dimensions are compactified aka super duper mega smol
 
Super_Nova said:
Not only is all this already addressed in the OP and by me multiple times, but that’s also not how M-Theory works at all.

Like please stop brining ad nauseum arguments man. Im getting tired.
Click to expand...
You do know M-Theory is not compactified in itself unless it's elaborated properly to be compactified, no?
According to M-theory, our multiverse is composed of 11 dimensions. According to Bosonic string theory, there are 26 of them. And there are an infinite amount of dimensions within a Hilbert space.
Click to expand...
Ether Bathtub uses the standard M-Theory which is the uncompactified version in which it is the 10 dimensional space + 1 dimensional time, the Ether Bathtub cannot be described in a 3 dimensional or 4 dimensional mathematical dimension in which the Bubble Worlds directly inherit from the Ether Bathtub but they're in their compactified forms instead of the uncompactified ones. Ether Bathtub is the same container who's able to contain infinite quantity of said Bubble Worlds..

You can't debunk my argument other than you repeatedly saying "but it's already addressed" when you clearly didn't in the first place, heck did you even address the threads I linked that disagreed with Ether Bathtub not being High 1-C? You don't, you clearly did not do that.

It is basic literacy that String Theory, M-Theory, Bosonic String Theory and Hilbert Space are uncompactified originally, the only reason why they're compactified is because we don't have extra dimensions IRL.
 
I'm here with some discrepancies in the scan translations

First of all, the order of some adjectives are flipped.
"举例来说，我们熟知的”那个宇宙“，就是一类”4个维度无限延申，7个维度有限蜷缩，并且各种常数均符合日常经验“的”膜“”
It should be "four dimensions infinitely extending, seven dimensions finitely curving"

Second, it refers to "that universe", as a type of membrane which "four dimensions infinitely extending, seven dimensions finitely curving, and all constants match everyday experience".

Third, by "when the analagous distance between two stable membranes are small enough", it's not talking about distance, but rather the difference in similarity between the two. Aka, when two "membranes" are similar enough, they will start to interact.

Fourth, the "anchors" are chance encounters or special structures that can stabilize a membrane into a bubbleworld

Fifth, "projections" are when a membrane devolves, causing it to be affected by more membranes, eventually leading to only spaces interacting with other stable membranes to remain.
 
Voidnether said:
You do know M-Theory is not compactified in itself unless it's elaborated properly to be compactified, no?

Ether Bathtub uses the standard M-Theory which is the uncompactified version in which it is the 10 dimensional space + 1 dimensional time, the Ether Bathtub cannot be described in a 3 dimensional or 4 dimensional mathematical dimension in which the Bubble Worlds directly inherit from the Ether Bathtub but they're in their compactified forms instead of the uncompactified ones. Ether Bathtub is the same container who's able to contain infinite quantity of said Bubble Worlds..

You can't debunk my argument other than you repeatedly saying "but it's already addressed" when you clearly didn't in the first place, heck did you even address the threads I linked that disagreed with Ether Bathtub not being High 1-C? You don't, you clearly did not do that.

It is basic literacy that String Theory, M-Theory, Bosonic String Theory and Hilbert Space are uncompactified originally, the only reason why they're compactified is because we don't have extra dimensions IRL.
Click to expand...
Literally everything here is elaborated and explained in my previous messages and OP.

You keep saying “oh wow, you don’t reply because you can’t debunk” but IT’S LITERALLY TRUE THAT I’VE EXPLAINED THIS STUFF BEFORE. You just keep failing to understand them mannn

Stop doing this Ad Nausem Ad Nausem Ad Nausem bs by spamming long ass messages with no substance
 
Weaver261 said:
Please read the whole thing before saying something. What I am saying here is previous "compactified" stated extra dimensions are later proven to have qualitative superiority over lower ones.
Click to expand...
Ain't no way we still pulling this in the big 26

anyway the R>F scan didn't mention a number of dimensions so I don't think it actually proves all compactified dimensions are non-compactified
 
Super_Nova said:
Literally everything here is elaborated and explained in my previous messages and OP.

You keep saying “oh wow, you don’t reply because you can’t debunk” but IT’S LITERALLY TRUE THAT I’VE EXPLAINED THIS STUFF BEFORE. You just keep failing to understand them mannn

Stop doing this Ad Nausem Ad Nausem Ad Nausem bs by spamming long ass messages with no substance
Click to expand...
chill. at the end of the day this is just a video game
 
MalefAzelb said:
I'm here with some discrepancies in the scan translations

First of all, the order of some adjectives are flipped.
"举例来说，我们熟知的”那个宇宙“，就是一类”4个维度无限延申，7个维度有限蜷缩，并且各种常数均符合日常经验“的”膜“”
It should be "four dimensions infinitely extending, seven dimensions finitely curving"

Second, it refers to "that universe", as a type of membrane which "four dimensions infinitely extending, seven dimensions finitely curving, and all constants match everyday experience".

Third, by "when the analagous distance between two stable membranes are small enough", it's not talking about distance, but rather the difference in similarity between the two. Aka, when two "membranes" are similar enough, they will start to interact.

Fourth, the "anchors" are chance encounters or special structures that can stabilize a membrane into a bubbleworld

Fifth, "projections" are when a membrane devolves, causing it to be affected by more membranes, eventually leading to only spaces interacting with other stable membranes to remain.
Click to expand...
Firstly, I want a TL Helper here. Secondly… these are still anti-feats.
 
Super_Nova said:
gay dimensions waow


If dimensions can be compactified by getting close to each other, that’s an anti-feat. You can’t just say “oh they’re infinite when they’re straightened out” or whatever. An anti-feat is an anti-feat. That’s just how dimensions work.

Like, bulks don’t curl.


Paths = Path Energy = Imaginary Energy. They’re the same thing. Masterless Imaginary Energy is Path Energy before an Aeon takes over.

Not that, Cyrene didn’t just juxtapose Path Space with Real Space but aigh.
Click to expand...
You do realize this means absolutely nothing…? right? Honkai energy is quite literally Imaginary energy with aids, and there are plenty of similar structures that it had created similar to Path space that were NOT Imaginary spaces, in fact? The term “Imaginary space” was not once used in Star rail, this argument is very flawed and very reliant on assumptions that are weird.
 
Super_Nova said:
Literally everything here is elaborated and explained in my previous messages and OP.

You keep saying “oh wow, you don’t reply because you can’t debunk” but IT’S LITERALLY TRUE THAT I’VE EXPLAINED THIS STUFF BEFORE. You just keep failing to understand them mannn

Stop doing this Ad Nausem Ad Nausem Ad Nausem bs by spamming long ass messages with no substance
Click to expand...
NOVA THIS IS THE FIFTH TIME JUST SAY YOU CONCEDED FOR REAL LMAO
 
Instead of putting words in each other's mouths (they taste horrible I prefer numbers :P), let's remind ourselves that at the end of the day this is all just a video game :))

So can we cut down on the caps & stuff guys?
 
SweetDao said:
that one ig? not sure tho

Click to expand...

Yea what’s the context on this? Is there an actually stated cosmological structure for it? Otherwise it’s just as valid as Loli Yog Tao (ie it’s not)

AyOgUyS said:
chill. at the end of the day this is just a video game
Click to expand...
Ye but when you go 10 pages like this it becomes tiring
Irykamiii said:
You do realize this means absolutely nothing…? right? Honkai energy is quite literally Imaginary energy with aids, and there are plenty of similar structures that it had created similar to Path space that were NOT Imaginary spaces, in fact? The term “Imaginary space” was not once used in Star rail, this argument is very flawed and very reliant on assumptions that are weird.
Click to expand...
But if Imaginary = Paths in Star Rail then can you explain to me how it’d ever make sense for Path Space to somehow be different from Imaginary Space?

Also Honkai is Internal Imaginary Energy which is what Nanook’s Blood and Xipe’s Stellaron are

Voidnether said:
NOVA THIS IS THE FIFTH TIME JUST SAY YOU CONCEDED FOR REAL LMAO
Click to expand...
Ts is some sorta ragebait ngl. Not that it matters, cuz I’m not tryna prove anything to you. The mods can very well see the other messages.
 
Super_Nova said:
Yea what’s the context on this? Is there an actually stated cosmological structure for it? Otherwise it’s just as valid as Loli Yog Tao (ie it’s not)
Click to expand...
I have absolutely no idea, but there is the location of said quote at the bottom, so unless a supporter knows about it, I'll try to check it myself.
 
Super_Nova said:
Firstly, I want a TL Helper here. Secondly… these are still anti-feats.
Click to expand...
Sure, btw its Durandal VN chapter 3 for anyone who cares

Membranes aren't curled up dimensions, but entire realities. When two stable membranes have similar enough properties to one another, they can interact, causing transfer of substance from the smaller membrane to the larger. This transfer can cause the smaller membrane to devolve, making it so that more "membranes" can affect it. This leads to a special type of "membrane" called "projection", which is when all space not affected by a stable membrane collapses.

Nothing here suggests that the 11 dimensions of the SoQ are compacted
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Mbpoops
  • Locked
(GRACE) Sigh... here we go again. H1C Honkai.
4 5 6
Replies
209
Views
15K
Reiner04
Reiner04
Weaver261
  • Locked
Chaotic Honkai Verse Upgrade (1-A & L1-A)
18 19 20
Replies
784
Views
47K
Huesito88
Huesito88
Mbpoops
  • Locked
(ACCEPTED) Thanks mythus! Removing possibly High 1-C from HSR
2 3 4
Replies
149
Views
10K
Mbpoops
Mbpoops
PlungingThroughTime
  • Locked
Hi3 scaling chain rework.
2
Replies
60
Views
3K
PlungingThroughTime
PlungingThroughTime
PlungingThroughTime
  • Locked
HSR + Hi3 - Imaginary Energy IS Honkai Energy.
3 4 5
Replies
183
Views
11K
PlungingThroughTime
PlungingThroughTime
Back
Top