(ACCEPTED) Sliming all Honkai Scaling (GONE BRUTAL)

[Weaver261]

Hoyoverse can't take a break huh? (Don't include me for doing genshin downgrade tho :3)
I disagree since the statement of extra dimensions being compactified from a long long time ago and now it's completely different thing in future stories. Murata Ryusuke clearly explained qualitative superiority between each dimensions as readers and characters. If the extra dimensions too small to contain lower dimensional world (which is infinite), this would be impossible.
Also the higher dimensions explained in Ryusuke fight is clearly referring to those extra dimensions since Alien Key aka Sugar Key which Ryusuke used to ascend to higher dimension can be used in higher dimensional spaces (plural btw)

Misteln: You said that the Sugar Key can be used in higher-dimensional spaces, which means it should be effective in the areas that have already fused, right?

Shigure Kira got this Sugar Key while she was in Imaginary Space.

Shigure Kira: Before I left the Candy House, I secretly took the Alien Key, also known as the Sugar Key, the secret treasure of the Sugars, as a precaution. In fact, I was only able to find my way back after I was thrown out of the bubble universe thanks to its assistance.

Imaginary space include these extra dimensions

Otto: I can only accompany you this far. The way forward is only open to those who have undergone fusion with extra dimensions.

And Sugars (Higher Dimensional Being who helped Welt to understand higher dimensions) used alien key to change the dimension they exist just like they came to 3rd dimension

Shigure Kira: Haha, of course. We’ve learned how to make use of the Imaginary Tree. To a certain extent, we can transform the dimension in which we exist.

Whenever they face a crisis, they change to another dimension

Shigure Kira: Whenever the Sugars face a crisis, they reestablish a link with the Imaginary Tree, and switch to a different dimension.

This show all extra spatial dimensions are qualitatively superior and not just one dimension.

 

[SweetDao]

Btw, just the fact that they can compactify naturally is an anti-feat. But the issue is much more deep and I’ve already talked about this specific thing in the OP. Bro gen hasn’t read my post lol

Idk man, I don't think the postulate is that bad, but nothing remotely implies or states this besides "well it could" in opposition to a more reasonable "it doesn't because we don't have information".

Also, for a verse like that, one would think the evidences for higher-D would be more numerous tbf. (Soon GGZ mention to save Honkai society)

 

[Voidnether]

Btw, just the fact that they can compactify naturally is an anti-feat. But the issue is much more deep and I’ve already talked about this specific thing in the OP. Bro gen hasn’t read my post lol

Nowhere was it stated for the Ether Bathtub to compactify naturally btw

 

[Furina003]

Saying IT is a l2c structure is completely unreasonable in my opinion, how can IT accommodate the genshin universe which is also an l2c structure? l2c structure accommodating l2c is completely unreasonable, so IT should be a larger structure than l2c maybe l1c or even more, unless you consider the genshin universe to be the entirety of IT.

yeah i'll stop here and leave it entirely to honkai supporters to defend it.
Good luck

 

[SuperNova55555]

Hoyoverse can't take a break huh? (Don't include me for doing genshin downgrade tho :3)
I disagree since the statement of extra dimensions being compactified from a long long time ago and now it's completely different thing in future stories. Murata Ryusuke clearly explained qualitative superiority between each dimensions as readers and characters. If the extra dimensions too small to contain lower dimensional world (which is infinite), this would be impossible.
Also the higher dimensions explained in Ryusuke fight is clearly referring to those extra dimensions since Alien Key aka Sugar Key which Ryusuke used to ascend to higher dimension can be used in higher dimensional spaces (plural btw)

Shigure Kira got this Sugar Key while she was in Imaginary Space.

Imaginary space include these extra dimensions

And Sugars (Higher Dimensional Being who helped Welt to understand higher dimensions) used alien key to change the dimension they exist just like they came to 3rd dimension

Whenever they face a crisis, they change to another dimension

This show all extra spatial dimensions are qualitatively superior and not just one dimension.

+1D for IT is fine. I’ve stated this repeatedly.

Nowhere was it stated for the Ether Bathtub to compactify naturally btw

It’s the function of the Bathtub. It’s how Bubble Worlds are formed. Ya know, by the membranes getting “too close”.

Saying IT is a l2c structure is completely unreasonable in my opinion, how can IT accommodate the genshin universe which is also an l2c structure? l2c structure accommodating l2c is completely unreasonable, so IT should be a larger structure than l2c maybe l1c or even more, unless you consider the genshin universe to be the entirety of IT.

yeah i'll stop here and leave it entirely to honkai supporters to defend it.
Good luck

Negative tracking^2

 

[Weaver261]

+1D for IT is fine. I’ve stated this repeatedly.

Did you read my post? I specifically wrote that to prove it's not just 1D+

 

[SuperNova55555]

Did you read my post? I specifically wrote that to prove it's not just 1D+

Ye that a higher dimension exists. Are you talking about the use of “extra dimensions”? +2D is also fine if we really wanna stretch it.

Also, there’s no scans with those, so I do want to seem em.

 

[Furina003]

Negative tracking^2

let's have fun

 

[Weaver261]

Ye that a higher dimension exists. Are you talking about the use of “extra dimensions”? +2D is also fine if we really wanna stretch it.

Also, there’s no scans with those, so I do want to seem em.

What? The scan about compactified dimension already stated it has 7 extra dimensions. Totality is 11D if you include 4D and extra 7D

 

[SuperNova55555]

What? The scan about compactified dimension already stated it has 7 extra dimensions. Totality is 11D if you include 4D and extra 7D

That’s SoQ. Not the IT here (who has different dimensions).

Also again, curled dimensions can exist with uncurled ones. It’s not a contradiction. But simply applying this to IT solves all of these issues.

Idk man, I don't think the postulate is that bad, but nothing remotely implies or states this besides "well it could" in opposition to a more reasonable "it doesn't because we don't have information".

Also, for a verse like that, one would think the evidences for higher-D would be more numerous tbf. (Soon GGZ mention to save Honkai society)

Bulks can’t curl. At all. The fact these dimensions have the capacity to intertwine and get close is already a defeater

 

[SuperNova55555]

Also generally contradictory things are taken at their lowest interpretation. @Vietthai96 affirmed this in the L1A thread. (Not that there’s any problems with my interpretation tho hehe)

 

[Weaver261]

That’s SoQ. Not the IT here (who has different dimensions).

I want to die

For example, what we well know as “Universe”, is a brane class which has “4 infinitely extending dimensions, 7 finitely curled up dimensions, and all kinds of variables in line with daily life

This line here is referring to the Universe aka Imaginary Tree and not Sea Of Quanta. SoQ was never stated as a "Universe". How did you come to the conclusion that Universe here is referring to SoQ?

 

[SuperNova55555]

This line here is referring to the Universe aka Imaginary Tree and not Sea Of Quanta. SoQ was never stated as a "Universe". How did you come to the conclusion that Universe here is referring to SoQ?

Is that line from the series or a quote from a member here? Cuz that’s another huge anti-feat.

I want to die

Where’s the issue?

 

[Weaver261]

Is that line from the series or a quote from a member here? Cuz that’s another huge anti-feat.

It's literally in the same scan you posted for downgrade. The universe has 7 extra dimensions.

Otto: I can only accompany you this far. The way forward is only open to those who have undergone fusion with extra dimensions.

This is the thing Otto said to Dudu when she went into Imaginary Tree to link a bubble world. This confirmed extra dimensions exist and we already know the amount which is 7. Although they are stated as compactified before, now the story showed qualitative superiortiy between each extra dimensions.

 

[Voidnether]

+1D for IT is fine. I’ve stated this repeatedly.


It’s the function of the Bathtub. It’s how Bubble Worlds are formed. Ya know, by the membranes getting “too close”.


Negative tracking^2

Okay, Bubble Worlds are created through the Ether Bathtub, how is Ether Bathtub compactified by then? Nothing about this debunks the entire Ether Bathtub using the uncompactified version of M-Theory when it was already explained that Bubble Worlds are incapable of truly inheriting the infinite 11-dimensional space-time properties of the Ether Bathtub

 

[SuperNova55555]

It's literally in the same scan you posted for downgrade. The universe has 7 extra dimensions.

Brother. Holy shit:

7 finitely curled up dimensions

This is the thing Otto said to Dudu when she went into Imaginary Tree to link a bubble world. This confirmed extra dimensions exist and we already know the amount which is 7. Although they are stated as compactified before, now the story showed qualitative superiortiy between each extra dimensions.

The extra dimension in explicitly about the Imaginary Tree. Which can have non-compact dimensions without problems. But that’s only 1 and raises no issues because even that 1 dimension is already bigger than the SoQ 11D compactified

Okay, Bubble Worlds are created through the Ether Bathtub, how is Ether Bathtub compactified by then? Nothing about this debunks the entire Ether Bathtub using the uncompactified version of M-Theory when it was already explained that Bubble Worlds are incapable of truly inheriting the infinite 11-dimensional space-time properties of the Ether Bathtub

Not only is all this already addressed in the OP and by me multiple times, but that’s also not how M-Theory works at all.

Like please stop brining ad nauseum arguments man. Im getting tired.

 

[Weaver261]

Brother. Holy shit:

Brother are you literally arguing to me that not including the word "extra" to M-Theory based cosmology somehow make it no longer have extra dimensions? Are you serious? The text literally said "Universe we are familiar with" and there're tons of scans stating SoQ is still a mystery and it was never mentioned as a "Universe".

The extra dimension in explicitly about the Imaginary Tree. Which can have non-compact dimensions without problems. But that’s only 1 and raises no issues because even that 1 dimension is already bigger than the SoQ 11D compactified

What are you saying? 7 dimensions are referring to Universe aka Imaginary Tree. Show me a scan of SoQ being stated as "Universe" (must be yuzhou in chinese too)

 

[Robo432343]

You miss the point here. Defending is fine, no one is saying you have to accept it as is. Just that Robot is either misreading the text (in which case Nova or someone else will answer him) or he's just repeating something that is clearly false and he knows it. I don't think Nova or anyone else has a problem with supporters of the verse trying to defend their position otherwise.

You're just saying that because you want this verse to be downgraded and you're intentionally trying to cover and hide the arguments that debunk OP, its painfully obvious.

It's not just verse supporters, a staff member has already said that compactified dimensions is not really an anti feat

Also the previous downgrade thread had the exact same arguments as this one at it got rejected, probably because one of the users pointed out that brane cosmology is actually used:

Welt states that gravity is interlinked across all dimensions, in the Alien Space manga, which is something that Brane Cosmology (according to wikipedia) uses, there's also this voiceline from Veneziano (HG2)'s profile:

"十一维，弦与膜，终极的大一统……世界的本源，究竟是什么呢?"
"Eleven Dimensions, Strings and Branes, the ultimate unity... What is the origin of the world?"

There's also the fact that the CN (i just checked lol) uses the word "Brane" to describe different worlds, you gave me the idea to check for what that word even meant

Also this: 举例来说，我们熟知的“那个宇宙”，就是一类“4个维度无限延伸、7个维度有限蜷缩、并且各种常数均符合日常经验”的“膜”。

膜 is used for branes in physics, I don't know how I never noticed that

膜 (物理學) - 维基百科，自由的百科全书

zh.wikipedia.org

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Just gonna point out that saying "This has already been addressed" is practically pointless if the argument isn't being quoted in the replies.

 

[Voidnether]

Brother. Holy shit:



The extra dimension in explicitly about the Imaginary Tree. Which can have non-compact dimensions without problems. But that’s only 1 and raises no issues because even that 1 dimension is already bigger than the SoQ 11D compactified


Not only is all this already addressed in the OP and by me multiple times, but that’s also not how M-Theory works at all.

Like please stop brining ad nauseum arguments man. Im getting tired.

It's concerning your counterargument to mine is that "It's already addressed" and you said this two or three times even before all this, I asked it to be readdressed 2 times and you don't, so you decided to concede after all

So, might as well take it that the OP conceded xD

 

[SweetDao]

You're just saying that because you want this verse to be downgraded and you're intentionally trying to cover and hide the arguments that debunk OP, its painfully obvious.

If anything, I don't care at all about Hoyoslop... But sure, if you think I'm intentionally covering OP, then ig I am

 

[SuperNova55555]

Also the previous downgrade thread had the exact same arguments as this one at it got rejected, probably because one of the users pointed out that brane cosmology is actually used:

All dimensional theories are made to understand the movement of gravity between dimensions. This is the whole reason string theory (and compact dimensions) exist.

 

[SuperNova55555]

What are you saying? 7 dimensions are referring to Universe aka Imaginary Tree. Show me a scan of SoQ being stated as "Universe" (must be yuzhou in chinese too)

Can I have the scan of IT being stated to have 7 extra dimensions?

It's concerning your counterargument to mine is that "It's already addressed" and you said this two or three times even before all this, I asked it to be readdressed 2 times and you don't, so you decided to concede after all

So, might as well take it that the OP conceded xD

It’s the compactification of SoQ that causes Bubble Worlds to spawn. It’s compactified pre-Worlds. I stated this multiple times. The very fact they can even “curl” to begin with is an anti-feat.

 

[SuperNova55555]

"十一维，弦与膜，终极的大一统……世界的本源，究竟是什么呢?"
"Eleven Dimensions, Strings and Branes, the ultimate unity... What is the origin of the world?"

Context for this? Not that it does much because normal and compact dimensions can already exist together.

There's also the fact that the CN (i just checked lol) uses the word "Brane" to describe different worlds, you gave me the idea to check for what that word even meant

Worlds? That just gives even less credibility to this whole thing.

 

[Voidnether]

Can I have the scan of IT being stated to have 7 extra dimensions?


It’s the compactification of SoQ that causes Bubble Worlds to spawn. It’s compactified pre-Worlds. Is stated this multiple times. The very fact they can even “curl” to begin with is an anti-feat.

How did you interpret Bubble Worlds that inherit 11 dimensional properties of the Ether Bathtub to be interpreted as the compactification of said Ether Bathtub?

The compactification begins when Bubble Worlds try to inherit the 11 dimensional properties of the Ether Bathtub, but since they can't, it's compactified instead, that's literally it.. Ether Bathtub itself is 10 dimensional space and 1 dimensional time DIRECTLY STATED so there's no reason to assume Ether Bathtub is compactified when it is the uncompactified version

 

[SuperNova55555]

The compactification begins when Bubble Worlds try to inherit the 11 dimensional properties of the Ether Bathtub, but since they can't, it's compactified instead, that's literally it..

Source?

(Not that it is coherent with Branes either way lol. They’re too small regardless)

 

[SuperNova55555]

Ether Bathtub itself is 10 dimensional space and 1 dimensional time DIRECTLY STATED

This. Is. How. Compact. Dimensions. Work.

 

[Weaver261]

Can I have the scan of IT being stated to have 7 extra dimensions?

Face palm (I am running out of face palms : read it in welt's voice)

Imaginary Tree is not literally a tree. It's a theoretical cosmological model used to describe the "Universe". The Universe contains infinite worlds that run on MWI. Surely, I don't need to go through whole terminology things to explain you that Imaginary Tree is Universe right ? Right? tell me i don't need to T - T

The text in the scan already stated that "Universe (yuzhou is used here which means it's not bubble or leaf universe. these universes use shije) we familiar with". The universe has 4 infinite dimensions and 7 extra dimensions. Even if 7 dimensions aren't called "extra dimension", it's already extra dimensions since M-Theory used extra dimensions. These extra dimensions later mentioned again when Durandal needed to go to Imaginary Tree to link a bubble universe. That's when Otto said "Only those who fused with extra dimensions can go there" because Durandal contains a bubble universe with extra dimensions. But these extra dimensions are later described as higher dimensions which qualitatively superior to lower dimensions.

This in turn make SoQ 11 Dimensions, proper higher spatial dimensions since SoQ dimensions are never mentioned as "curled" or "compactified".

 

[SuperNova55555]

Face palm (I am running out of face palms : read it in welt's voice)

Imaginary Tree is not literally a tree. It's a theoretical cosmological model used to describe the "Universe". The Universe contains infinite worlds that run on MWI. Surely, I don't need to go through whole terminology things to explain you that Imaginary Tree is Universe right ? Right? tell me i don't need to T - T

The text in the scan already stated that "Universe (yuzhou is used here which means it's not bubble or leaf universe. these universes use shije) we familiar with". The universe has 4 infinite dimensions and 7 extra dimensions. Even if 7 dimensions aren't called "extra dimension", it's already extra dimensions since M-Theory used extra dimensions. These extra dimensions later mentioned again when Durandal needed to go to Imaginary Tree to link a bubble universe. That's when Otto said "Only those who fused with extra dimensions can go there" because Durandal contains a bubble universe with extra dimensions. But these extra dimensions are later described as higher dimensions which qualitatively superior to lower dimensions.

This in turn make SoQ 11 Dimensions proper higher spatial dimensions since SoQ dimensions are never mentioned as "curled" or "compactified".

Alr, just straight-up, can you give me the scans?

Like just post them here.

 

[Breakdown]

It’s the compactification of SoQ that causes Bubble Worlds to spawn. It’s compactified pre-Worlds. I stated this multiple times. The very fact they can even “curl” to begin with is an anti-feat.

Nova, as a mod said, compactification doesn’t constitute an antifeat. Why are you even still using a point which a mod said doesn’t hold water? This is especially true when it is plainly out in verse that higher dimensions have a relationship to lower dimensions analogous to a reader and a book. This whole thread is half baked a waste of time.

 

[Weaver261]

Alr, just straight-up, can you give me the scans?

Like just post them here

Imaginary Tree is not a literal tree.

Describing the universe's structure as a "tree" may be an attitude that views the Imaginary Tree as a life form.
- HSR Data Bank : Imaginary Tree

The universe runs on MWI model Here too

Durandal going to imaginary tree
Also linking bubble universe to imaginary tree

Higher Dimension qualitative superiority. 1 and 2

And Welt defeated Ryusuke saying this
Which is exactly referring to extra dimensions

 

[SuperNova55555]

Nova, as a mod said, compactification doesn’t constitute an antifeat.

The one admin who voted here literally said it’s an antifeat.

Imaginary Tree is not a literal tree.

This wasn’t the part I was asking since I already (obviously) knew this. But I didn’t specify it in my original comment so I won’t hold you up on this.

The universe runs on MWI model Here too

Durandal going to imaginary tree
Also linking bubble universe to imaginary tree

Higher Dimension qualitative superiority. 1 and 2

And Welt defeated Ryusuke saying this
Which is exactly referring to extra dimensions

Which part of this proves IT has 11 uncompacted dimensions?

I have already acknowledged both in my OP and many comments after that I am fine with IT having extra real dimension, and I have gone multiple times on record including @BestMGQScalerEver that you can have both compact and non-compact simultaneously.

But that doesn’t even matter cuz it’s part of the IT. And connecting Bubbles with IT is also like… not an antifeat at all. SoQ remains with compacted dimensions and IT has a higher dimension that encompasses all of them (as it isnt compacted seemingly). This changes nothing about the scaling.

Low 1-C is fine. Viet seemed fine with it as well.

 

[Weaver261]

Which part of this proves IT has 11 uncompacted dimensions?

Final Face Palm
Imaginary Tree = Universe. Are you clear on this part? Good

For example, what we well know as “Universe”, is a brane class which has “4 infinitely extending dimensions, 7 finitely curled up dimensions, and all kinds of variables in line with daily life

These dimensions belong to what? "Universe"!!!!!! Universe is what? Imaginary Tree!!!!!! Are you clear?

 

[SuperNova55555]

Final Face Palm
Imaginary Tree = Universe. Are you clear on this part? Good

These dimensions belong to what? "Universe"!!!!!! Universe is what? Imaginary Tree!!!!!! Are you clear?

Can you send me the scan which says the “universe” has 11 dimensions?

 

[Robo432343]

The one admin who voted here literally said it’s an antifeat.

Yeah, and he's wrong. Executor is more knowledgeable than this admin regarding tier 1 and he already explained why it's not an anti feat. Also why are you pinging a random user to support your argument in the op??? (No offense to MGQ)

 

[Weaver261]

Can you send me the scan which says the “universe” has 11 dimensions?

I can't read or you can't read. It's one of those things.

For example, what we well know as “Universe”, is a brane class which has “4 infinitely extending dimensions, 7 finitely curled up dimensions, and all kinds of variables in line with daily life

Is this still too small for you to see? Oh wait, I guess you are asking for image scan wait

Here you go

Also don't mind different translations (Image scan one is not accurate translation btw but what i quoted here human translated)

 

[Mbpoops]

If it matters at all here is the cosmology page’s justification for true SoQ ≠ ether bath

 

[SuperNova55555]

I can't read or you can't read. It's one of those things.

Is this still too small for you to see?

I want the scan. Not some words you quoted. Where is this stated in any honkai work?

@Robo432343

However, that doesn't eliminate all the possibilities for large higher dimensions. If what the others are talking about is the sea of quanta having more types of physical worlds than just that one is true, it could be possible for those different physical spaces to have large higher dimensions. After all, a multiverse can include universes with a different set of laws of physics.

He literally said that it doesn’t work here and that you can have a different world with more dimensions. Which I am arguing is IT. Do you genuinely ever read the stuff you send?

If it matters at all here is the cosmology page’s justification for true SoQ ≠ ether bath

I ADDRESSED THIS IN THE OP AND EVERY COMMENT AFTER THAT.

Omg I need to cool off holy shit

 

[Weaver261]

I want the scan. Not some words you quoted. Where is this stated in any honkai work?

Sorry I got heated lol xD
It's from Durandal Visual Novel. I edited the link back at the reply above

 

[Cipher72]

Every verse needs a nova

But not every verse has a supernova