A Review of the Strange Swirling Lights Dimension in Dragon Ball

[Azertyhuuh]

Evidence that it is Super-Dimensional:



Another piece of evidence:



Evidence that it transcends space-time, evidence of the destruction of the dimension, and the work’s own statement that this dimension is Super-Dimensional.

The term Super-Dimensional here refers to dimensions that transcend the four known dimensions.
This evidence confirms everything and proves that this dimension is at least five-dimensional.

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

Evidence that it is Super-Dimensional:



Another piece of evidence:

Ok, so repeated evidence that I already debunked the first time, this isn't Evidence and now prove why we take the directors film as it's worthy?? And you still haven't proven how it's universal or above in size either.
This isn't convincing, all it's saying is Super dimensional that doesn't prove much context here, as you haven't gave any proof that they destroyed the whole thing. No proper scan , and I've said before it'd be an association fallacy if we treated that punch the same as every other punch which we don't otherwise there'd be a list of verses waiting to get upscaled. Also little context not enough proof for the size.

Evidence that it transcends space-time, evidence of the destruction of the dimension, and the work’s own statement that this dimension is Super-Dimensional.

The term Super-Dimensional here refers to dimensions that transcend the four known dimensions, not multiple dimensions.
This evidence confirms everything and proves that this dimension is at least five-dimensional.

So they were using CG/CGI to create this stuff..? Why would we upscale based on CGI.. there'd be so many verses getting an upscale based on animation which debunks your whole point entirely. This is precise enough that it's gotten debunked 2-3 times and my last post on the first page literally did all that, you still need the evidence to prove it's size and you need to prove they destroyed the whole 5D dimension. As of rn this isn't enough evidence.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Evidence and now prove why we take the directors film as it's worthy?? And you still haven't proven how it's universal or above in size either.
This isn't convincing, all it's saying is Super dimensional that doesn't prove much context here, as you haven't gave any proof that they destroyed the whole thing. No proper scan , and I've said before it'd be an association fallacy if we treated that punch the same as every other punch which we don't otherwise there'd be a list of verses waiting to get upscaled. Also little context not enough proof for the size.




So they were using CG/CGI to create this stuff..? Why would we upscale based on CGI.. there'd be so many verses getting an upscale based on animation which debunks your whole point entirely. This is precise enough that it's gotten debunked 2-3 times and my last post on the first page literally did all that, you still need the evidence to prove it's size and you need to prove they destroyed the whole 5D dimension. As of rn this isn't enough evidence.

No, Gogeta and Broly destroyed the entire dimension, and that is clear in the evidence. As for the nature of its size, the scene shows it to be boundless in all directions. This also has nothing to do with punches Gogeta and Broly destroyed the dimension itself, as stated in the evidence and as we saw in the scene itself. As for the punches, I honestly do not know why they are even being brought up here. The evidence states that their energies destroyed the entire dimension and tore it.

At the moment, I do not have conclusive proof of its size other than that scene, which shows it as boundless in all directions. If the moderators agree to consider it at least universe-sized, this would grant Gogeta, Broly, and those I mentioned a Low 1-C rating.
If the moderators do not accept that evidence regarding its size, then all of them would be classified as 2-A for destroying a finite-sized five-dimensional space, because the smallest possible five-dimensional structure would still contain an uncountably infinite number of four-dimensional spaces. In any case, the dimension is at least extremely large based on what we see. Ultimately, this currently depends solely on the moderators.

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

No, Gogeta and Broly destroyed the entire dimension, and that is clear in the evidence. As for the nature of its size, the scene shows it to be boundless in all directions. This also has nothing to do with punches Gogeta and Broly destroyed the dimension itself, as stated in the evidence and as we saw in the scene itself. As for the punches, I honestly do not know why they are even being brought up here. The evidence states that their energies destroyed the entire dimension and tore it.

Ok "Dimension" doesn't mean anything, not does that prove it's size saying "They destroyed the entire dimension and tore it" means nothing w/o much context.

At the moment, I do not have conclusive proof of its size other than that scene, which shows it as boundless in all directions. If the moderators agree to consider it at least universe-sized, this would grant Gogeta, Broly, and those I mentioned a Low 1-C rating.
If the moderators do not accept that evidence regarding its size, then all of them would be classified as 2-A for destroying a finite-sized five-dimensional space, because the smallest possible five-dimensional structure would still contain an uncountably infinite number of four-dimensional spaces. In any case, the dimension is at least extremely large based on what we see. Ultimately, this currently depends solely on the moderators.

"Boundless in all directions" you don't have proof for this either, and again association fallacy you're implying that they're all the same size when you don't have evidence backing it up. Yes its up to the mods but others talking and stating their reasons as for disagreements help. Building arguments? And you haven't gave proof for size besides repeating what I already debunked. You have no proof it's universal sized and then again, you sent the same arguments that didn't prove anything. These arguments have no proof behind them only the word "Super-Dimensional" which isn't much when there's barely any context backing this up. So and as I once again mentioned, there are So many verses that have done this exact same thing and they didn't get upscaled , you need explicit proof it's universal or above sized and you need to back up your proof.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

When it comes to the Dragon Ball series, evidence, fairness, and logic are simply things that have no meaning.

All this evidence:

• It transcends time and space.
• Universe 7 is four-dimensional.
• This dimension is super-dimensional.
• In another context, this dimension is super-dimensional.
• The work: this dimension is built from different dimensions, meaning unknown dimensions, and the ones we know are the four dimensions.
• This dimension could not withstand the power of Gogeta (Blue) and Legendary Super Saiyan Broly. Their energies tore and destroyed the entire dimension, and this is clearly shown in the anime itself—the dimension was warping, breaking, and being destroyed before our eyes.

All this evidence, and still some people do not acknowledge it, and I don't know why. They create excuses, and as I said before, (fairness, logic, and evidence) lose their meaning because it's about Dragon Ball.

I ask the moderators this time, not the members, to respond to this, because now there is no greater evidence in the whole world that a person could cite other than bringing the author here to tell you that it is five-dimensional and that Gogeta and Broly destroyed it. Apart from that, there is nothing more than this. And I do not want the members to reply—I want the moderators to reply now so that the topic doesn’t become chaotic like the previous one.

If someone mentions its size—the only evidence now is that its size in the scene appears boundless from all directions, and we see no clear boundaries. Therefore, it would be illogical not to consider it at least universal in size, since no clear boundaries. The decision is yours.

 

[Saqphire]

Oh boy. Should I beat up this argument as well guys ?

 

[Hecky2222]

Oh boy. Should I beat up this argument as well guys ?

Go on

 

[Saqphire]

Go on

Hello everyone. Today I would like to discuss the dimensions of the Strange Swirling Lights in the Dragon Ball movie. I have reviewed the previous discussions on this topic, but they are not accurate, and I would like to correct several important points regarding this battle in this thread.
It has been stated that the Strange Swirling Lights dimension reached by Gogeta and Broly is a super-dimensional realm, which means that the Swirling Lights dimension would be at least 5D, since it was explicitly described as super-dimensional.


Evidence ↓



Additionally, it was clearly stated that this battle surpassed the boundaries of the universe, which led them to reach this realm. What further supports this is that the work itself explicitly described it as a super-dimensional world. Therefore, it would immediately qualify as at least 5D, because the term super-dimensional refers to higher dimensions from 5D and above. The studio also attempted to visually represent a super-dimensional world using CG imagery.

The term used here is explicit: (超次元の), which directly means super-dimensional. This indicates that the world they reached is, at minimum, five-dimensional. The image above illustrates this clearly, and I also have another piece of evidence that I will include below ↓

Akin to your afterlife argument, this also gets scrutinised in semantics debates. In fact, they are the same exact kanji you're using and thus "Super-dimensional" is, again, just semantics slop, meaning it can also literally mean anything. Super (chou) can mean that it is extra-dimensional, beyond-dimensional or it can simply be the name of something who's substance is completely irrelevant to dimensions in the first place lol. Each and everyone of these translations are also all interpretive on their own way, to which you need to justify regardless of which meaning you pick here.

Even "dimensional" (jigen) fall under this cuz what does dimensions even mean here? Does jigen here mean spatial dimensions, non-integer dimensions, universes... what exactly does that mean? Until you justify that proposition, the statement, like the last one, means nothing in particular.

And yes @Vietthai96, that term can be used hyperbolically believe it or not. He needs to prove his semantics being literal as that is what is being presupposed lmfao. Choujigen can be used as hype statements.

I don't care much about this thread but saying super-dimensional is flowery language is crazy, while we don't rate thing like super-dimensional, hyperspace cause that term is varies between verses, saying them is flowery is absolute crazy

Additionally, it was clearly stated that this battle surpassed the boundaries of the universe, which led them to reach this realm. What further supports this is that the work itself explicitly described it as a super-dimensional world. Therefore, it would immediately qualify as at least 5D, because the term super-dimensional refers to higher dimensions from 5D and above. The studio also attempted to visually represent a super-dimensional world using CG imagery.

This dimension was entered by breaching the limits of the universe, tearing dimensional walls apart, then "disintegrating" the dimension to leave it. Their power was stated to be too much for the universe to handle. Accessed by distorting space and time

Affecting the border between two dimensions scales nowhere on this wiki, especially when one of them has no proven dimensional axis other than three-dimensional ones. And having power beyond what the universe can handle only scales your power above that universe, that doesn't mean the Swirling Lights is a higher dimension that can contain that power (that's not even how dimensionality works lmfao).

Also, the universe-bust statement is lowkey false because they ended up returning to the universe with stronger power (they entered it when Broly was in SSJ1 and left when he was in LSSJ) yet they never returned to the Swirling Lights after that fight, making all claims that power was the reason they entered it dubious ash, and thus puts the entire validity of the novel in question as those claims can now be considered hyperbolic. Also, the novel never mentions anything about super-dimensionality other than the title.

Thus saying "it is super-dimensional" doesn't actually justify the dimension being higher-dimensional and as such, it is circular. "Super-dimensional" can simply refer to inter-dimensional fights (which this one was) and interdimensionality scales nowhere as the two dimensions you are fighting between (thus inter-) don't need to have one being higher in dimensional axis and another being lower.

The term used here is explicit: (超次元の), which directly means super-dimensional. This indicates that the world they reached is, at minimum, five-dimensional. The image above illustrates this clearly, and I also have another piece of evidence that I will include below ↓

Same issues as I adressed initially so I ain't adressing it again.

I believe this is sufficient to upgrade Gogeta and Broly to Low 1-C, and also to upgrade Vegeta, Goku, Gohan, Black Frieza, Moro, Granolah, Vegito, Gas, all Gods, Angels, the Grand Priest, and Zeno’s Guards to this level as well, since they are on Broly’s level or significantly stronger than him, especially those mentioned.

It is not. Also, before I hear that argument come up, let me adress that too; the graphic designers using 3D CGI to showcase the fight instead of 2D animation =/= the dimension has anything to do with it, or do we wanna see 11-A Dragon Ball yall? The CGI was just used to test new animation tactics and they repeated that in Super Hero, where they were in the main Universe. So unless you're saying the main Universe suddenly gained a bump in dimensionality between Broly and Super Hero (which you would need extra evidence for), then that claim is moot

As a bonus; I will adress the other arguments other than what was on OP:

I kind of agree with her being 5D, because Gogeta and Broly had to distort the space-time and break dimensional walls to enter this dimension, and it is said that the battle transcends space-time, and also confirmed by DOKKAN BATTLE being a extra-dimensional space

Of course, all this evidence is worthless if there is no defined size for the Universe or infinity, something we do not have at present, but it could very well be 5D.

None of this proves 5D for the same reason why "choujigen" doesn't scale anywhere here; there is no substance behind these statements and breaking dimensional walls =/= the dimension behind it is a higher dimension nor does it mean they transcended the space and time or space-time overall in an ontological sense to reach it; "時空を超えた闘い" can simply mean they crossed or exceeded space-time or the local space-time (cosmology) without being ontologically above it. And Dokkan can very well just contain a mistranslation if anything.

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

Last response.
So for that I will debunk this once more like I did already twice.

When it comes to the Dragon Ball series, evidence, fairness, and logic are simply things that have no meaning.

All this evidence:

• It transcends time and space.
• Universe 7 is four-dimensional.
• This dimension is super-dimensional.
• In another context, this dimension is super-dimensional.
• The work: this dimension is built from different dimensions, meaning unknown dimensions, and the ones we know are the four dimensions.
• This dimension could not withstand the power of Gogeta (Blue) and Legendary Super Saiyan Broly. Their energies tore and destroyed the entire dimension, and this is clearly shown in the anime itself—the dimension was warping, breaking, and being destroyed before our eyes.

And still no evidence, you haven't provided a link to back this up. "Words" we aren't using words as evidence otherwise every verse on this whole site/platform would be where they shouldn't be. So that's out of the box (1) and also you still need to prove it was the whole thing they was destroying. Which we have 0 proof that it was even the whole dimension breaking and if you say there's evidence then go find that evidence..

All this evidence, and still some people do not acknowledge it, and I don't know why. They create excuses, and as I said before, (fairness, logic, and evidence) lose their meaning because it's about Dragon Ball.

I ask the moderators this time, not the members, to respond to this, because now there is no greater evidence in the whole world that a person could cite other than bringing the author here to tell you that it is five-dimensional and that Gogeta and Broly destroyed it. Apart from that, there is nothing more than this. And I do not want the members to reply—I want the moderators to reply now so that the topic doesn’t become chaotic like the previous one.

(2) "Chaotic" that thread wasn't so chaotic, it was people merely explaining their points disagreements and why they disagree. That's not chaotic, sure the deraling didn't help, but ignoring the points where people didn't say it met the criteria for what you are posing? You tried to get the verse to L1A and you expected people to not laugh or whatever?

If someone mentions its size—the only evidence now is that its size in the scene appears boundless from all directions, and we see no clear boundaries. Therefore, it would be illogical not to consider it at least universal in size, since no clear boundaries. The decision is yours.

"If someone mentions its size-the only evidence now is that its size in the scene appears boundless from all directions, and we see no clear boundaries." So again you still have no proof of this, we only get a limited viewpoint and uh .. we aren't going off of that. You need proof for that, which you didn't send. (4) "Therefore, it would be illogical not to consider it at least universal in size, since no clear boundaries. The decision is yours." And you need to provide proof it's universal sized, it would be Illogical? We don't even know it's size so applying an association fallacy won't do it. You are associating that every dimension is universal sized when that's not even true. You need proof for that, provide said proof too

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

Akin to your afterlife argument, this also gets scrutinised in semantics debates. In fact, they are the same exact kanji you're using and thus "Super-dimensional" is, again, just semantics slop, meaning it it can also literally mean anything. Super (chou) can mean that it is extra-dimensional, beyond-dimensional or it can simply be the name of something who's substance is completely irrelevant to dimensions in the first place lol.

Even "dimensional" (jigen) fall under this cuz what does dimensions even mean here? Does jigen here mean spatial dimensions, non-integer dimensions, universes... what exactly does that mean? Until you justify that proposition, the statement, like the last one, means nothing in particular.

And yes @Vietthai96, that term can be used hyperbolically believe it or not. He needs to prove his semantics being literal as that is what is being presupposed lmfao. Choujigen can be used as hype statements.


Affecting the border between two dimensions scales nowhere on this wiki, especially when one of them has no proven dimensional axis other than three-dimensional ones. And having power beyond what the universe can handle only scales your power above that universe, that doesn't mean the Swirling Lights is a higher dimension that can contain that power (that's not even how dimensionality works lmfao).

Also, the universe-bust statement is lowkey false because they ended up returning to the universe with stronger power (they entered it when Broly was in SSJ1 and left when he was in LSSJ) yet they never returned to the Swirling Lights after that fight, making all claims that power was the reason they entered it dubious ash, and thus puts the entire validity of the novel in question as those claims can now be considered hyperbolic. Also, the novel never mentions anything about super-dimensionality other than the title.

Thus saying "it is super-dimensional" doesn't actually justify the dimension being higher-dimensional and as such, it is circular. "Super-dimensional" can simply refer to inter-dimensional fights (which this one was) and interdimensionality scales nowhere as the two dimensions you are fighting between (thus inter-) don't need to have one being higher in dimensions and another being lower.

Same issues as I adressed initially so I ain't adressing it again.

It is not. Also, before I hear that argument come up, let me adress that too; the graphic designers using 3D CGI to showcase the fight instead of 2D animation =/= the dimension has anything to do with it, or do we wanna see 11-A Dragon Ball yall? The CGI was just used to test new animation tactics and they repeated that in Super Hero, where they were in the main Universe. So unless you're saying the main Universe suddenly gained a bump in dimensionality between Broly and Super Hero (which you would need extra evidence for), then that claim is moot

As a bonus; I will adress the other arguments other than what was on OP:

None of this proves 5D for the same reason why "choujigen" doesn't scale anywhere here; there is no substance behind these statements and breaking dimensional walls =/= the dimension behind it is a higher dimension nor does it mean they transcended the space and time or space-time overall in an ontological sense to reach it; "時空を超えた闘い" can simply mean they crossed or exceeded space-time or the local space-time (cosmology) without being ontologically above it. And Dokkan can very well just contain a mistranslation if anything.

Side note
This as well ^
Sums up everything I was saying

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

None of this proves 5D for the same reason why "choujigen" doesn't scale anywhere here; there is no substance behind these statements and breaking dimensional walls =/= the dimension behind it is a higher dimension nor does it mean they transcended the space and time or space-time overall in an ontological sense to reach it; "時空を超えた闘い" can simply mean they crossed or exceeded space-time or the local space-time (cosmology) without being ontologically above it. And Dokkan can very well just contain a mistranslation if anything.

It's strange how nothing you said makes any sense in any way. The dimension is 5D, but there is no evidence that it has a significant size, so we are not treating it as 5D for now. However, all the kanji and the translation are correct. we translated everything right here in the translations, but rather the characters distorted space-time and broke dimensional barriers that are the very fabric of space-time, they are in a dimension beyond conventional space-time itself.

The only reason i disagree with this crt is because it does not have a significant size, but it is correct that it is a 5D dimension, even though it does not have a size, and i will not go back to debate all this.

 

[Saqphire]

It's strange how nothing you said makes any sense in any way. The dimension is 5D, but there is no evidence that it has a significant size, so we are not treating it as 5D for now. However, all the kanji and the translation are correct. we translated everything right here in the translations, but rather the characters distorted space-time and broke dimensional barriers that are the very fabric of space-time, they are in a dimension beyond conventional space-time itself.

The only reason i disagree with this crt is because it does not have a significant size, but it is correct that it is a 5D dimension, even though it does not have a size, and i will not go back to debate all this.

I'm saying semantics dismisses everything unless you can substantiate it (and nothing here has done so properly). Just because the translations "are correct" (according to who btw lmao), that doesn't mean the translations are mono-defined.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

I'm saying semantics dismisses everything unless you can substantiate it (and nothing here has done so properly). Just because the translations "are correct" (according to who btw lmao), that doesn't mean the translations are mono-defined.

No, this dimension is five-dimensional, and indeed everyone agrees and knows this. And if you are the sole opponent, it doesn't matter; your opinion remains yours. Now, the only remaining issue is the size, and I have now brought evidence about its size after extensive research.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Dokkan can very well just contain a mistranslation if anything.

Dokkan Battle uses the term "異次元空間", which is simply "another dimension", which "extradimensional space" can mean.

 

[Cipher72]

I was wondering why my notifications were blowing up anyways

• Where's the proof of them destroying said Dimension
• When are you going to update the OP and tally the votes ? I don't see a singular vote despite it being nearly 24 hours old at least fill in the mod votes.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Alright, now I will prove the size of this dimension here before you, and I request all moderators and staff to come here.

I will begin the explanation:

Gogeta’s speed in the Broly arc, according to VSBW’s own calculations, is:
←
Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta. Although he is inferior, Full Power Super Saiyan Broly can react to and clash with Blue Gogeta: 400 Million × 6 Universes (2-C) & 483.2 Sexdecillion c (Massively FTL+).

Now, since this dimension is boundless in all directions, movement within it is completely unrestricted, with no obstacles.

When we calculate the distance Gogeta can cover at this speed in just one second, he can traverse 165,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 universes in one second.

This is the number of universes Gogeta can cross at that speed in just one second. And inside this dimension, he was fighting Broly at a constant speed in a single direction for many consecutive seconds, meaning that the same number of universes he can cross per second at that speed must be multiplied by the number of seconds he moved in one direction. Even the smallest fraction of a second would result in crossing countless universes. Therefore, the size of this dimension far exceeds that of a universe by multiples upon multiples… and thus, the size of the dimension has been proven.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

I was wondering why my notifications were blowing up anyways

• Where's the proof of them destroying said Dimension
• When are you going to update the OP and tally the votes ? I don't see a singular vote despite it being nearly 24 hours old at least fill in the mod votes.

You will find the evidence above — I have already presented it. Additionally, in the anime itself, they clearly destroyed it right before our eyes. Therefore, this isn't even an issue to begin with. And this is aside from the work itself stating that this very dimension could not withstand their energies and was destroyed as a result.

 

[MunchkinGuy]

Alright, now I will prove the size of this dimension here before you, and I request all moderators and staff to come here.

I will begin the explanation:

Gogeta’s speed in the Broly arc, according to VSBW’s own calculations, is:
←
Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta. Although he is inferior, Full Power Super Saiyan Broly can react to and clash with Blue Gogeta: 400 Million × 6 Universes (2-C) & 483.2 Sexdecillion c (Massively FTL+).

Now, since this dimension is boundless in all directions, movement within it is completely unrestricted, with no obstacles.

When we calculate the distance Gogeta can cover at this speed in just one second, he can traverse 165,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 universes in one second.

This is the number of universes Gogeta can cross at that speed in just one second. And inside this dimension, he was fighting Broly at a constant speed in a single direction for many consecutive seconds, meaning that the same number of universes he can cross per second at that speed must be multiplied by the number of seconds he moved in one direction. Even the smallest fraction of a second would result in crossing countless universes. Therefore, the size of this dimension far exceeds that of a universe by multiples upon multiples… and thus, the size of the dimension has been proven.

They can't automatically see this, and only some staff will come, as with pretty much all threads.

 

[MunchkinGuy]

You will find the evidence above — I have already presented it. Additionally, in the anime itself, they clearly destroyed it right before our eyes. Therefore, this isn't even an issue to begin with. And this is aside from the work itself stating that this very dimension could not withstand their energies and was destroyed as a result.

You just said it was a massive size. What does this have to do with the main thesis?

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

Alright, now I will prove the size of this dimension here before you, and I request all moderators and staff to come here.

I will begin the explanation:

Gogeta’s speed in the Broly arc, according to VSBW’s own calculations, is:
←
Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta. Although he is inferior, Full Power Super Saiyan Broly can react to and clash with Blue Gogeta: 400 Million × 6 Universes (2-C) & 483.2 Sexdecillion c (Massively FTL+).

Ok first off, this isn't Proof it is but it's not and you don't have any proof to provide that's accurate or not. You didn't provide any links for where you got that etc

Now, since this dimension is boundless in all directions, movement within it is completely unrestricted, with , no obstacles.

When we calculate the distance Gogeta can cover at this speed in just one second, he can traverse 165,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 universes in one second.

Second off, no proof once again. You again have no scans for this and you didn't even provide any, send and site your sources for this because "Words" mean nothing when you have nothing to back said words up.

This is the number of universes Gogeta can cross at that speed in just one second. And inside this dimension, he was fighting Broly at a constant speed in a single direction for many consecutive seconds, meaning that the same number of universes he can cross per second at that speed must be multiplied by the number of seconds he moved in one direction. Even the smallest fraction of a second would result in crossing countless universes. Therefore, the size of this

I know I said that'd be my last one or two comments but I just got to really quickly reply to this,

Bitter sweet

And lastly third.. you don't have proof for this one either so

dimension far exceeds that of a universe by multiples upon multiples… and thus, the size of the dimension has been proven.

Saying this doesn't mean much. Send and site your sources cause once again you are applying associations fallacy and for the 5th-6th time, I said we don't do that cause every verse with that reality breaking punch stuff would have already been upscaled right now, you are still lacking proof and all your points have been debunked and for extra inf , I just rewatched the entire movie and... Saying it's boundless? When they ran into a wall in said parallel dimension?? That's another debunk. And you actually have to prove that your evidence hasn't proven much and you've applied association fallacy 5 times, not every dimension or parallel dimension is the size of universe

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Alright, now I will prove the size of this dimension here before you, and I request all moderators and staff to come here.

If you want staff to come here, you don't have to try summoning them by "requesting their presence", but ask them in their walls or ask a staff to ping them (common member pings don't work)

This is the number of universes Gogeta can cross at that speed in just one second. And inside this dimension, he was fighting Broly at a constant speed in a single direction for many consecutive seconds, meaning that the same number of universes he can cross per second at that speed must be multiplied by the number of seconds he moved in one direction. Even the smallest fraction of a second would result in crossing countless universes. Therefore, the size of this dimension far exceeds that of a universe by multiples upon multiples… and thus, the size of the dimension has been proven.

This doesn't work even as a possibly. Not only it it'd be calc stacking, which isn't allowed in tge wiki, but also, the "several seconds" are only from the espectator's point of view, not from the characters' point of view. Unless you think this iceberg from Earth is several times bigger than the Universe because it took a Broly who was already strong enough to match God forms from both Goku and Vegeta several seconds to slam Goku across it all.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Ok first off, this isn't Proof it is but it's not and you don't have any proof to provide that's accurate or not. You didn't provide any links for where you got that etc



Second off, no proof once again. You again have no scans for this and you didn't even provide any, send and site your sources for this because "Words" mean nothing when you have nothing to back said words up.


I know I said that'd be my last one or two comments but I just got to really quickly reply to this,

Bitter sweet

And lastly third.. you don't have proof for this one either so

Saying this doesn't mean much. Send and site your sources cause once again you are applying associations fallacy and for the 5th-6th time, I said we don't do that cause every verse with that reality breaking punch stuff would have already been upscaled right now, you are still lacking proof and all your points have been debunked and for extra inf , I just rewatched the entire movie and... Saying it's boundless? When they ran into a wall in said parallel dimension?? That's another debunk. And you actually have to prove that your evidence hasn't proven much and you've applied association fallacy 5 times, not every dimension or parallel dimension is the size of universe

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Gogeta_(DBS_Anime)&ved=2ahUKEwiMncvitu2RAxVV58kDHZUeJ-kQFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0yCJIFqsB0Ua0FG-S8w765

This is the evidence. You can scroll down and go to the speed scaling section and then to the Broly arc.

As for the calculations, they are simple. That number comes from his speed measurements… and knowing the size of the universe, the appropriate speed to cross a universe from start to finish, and taking the speed… It's just some calculations here, but the most important part is Gogeta's speed from that source.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

If you want staff to come here, you don't have to try summoning them by "requesting their presence", but ask them in their walls or ask a staff to ping them (common member pings don't work)

This doesn't work even as a possibly. Not only it it'd be calc stacking, which isn't allowed in tge wiki, but also, the "several seconds" are only from the espectator's point of view, not from the characters' point of view. Unless you think this iceberg from Earth is several times bigger than the Universe because it took a Broly who was already strong enough to match God forms from both Goku and Vegeta several seconds to slam Goku across it all.

No, your words are wrong and I personally disagree with them. There is nothing imaginary about their speed it is clear and not an illusion as you claim or as it appears to the viewer. If it were an illusion, VSBW wouldn't have bothered calculating the speeds of these characters, and if it had no practical use, they wouldn't have gone through the effort of calculating them for every arc in the works. So please, enough with these baseless assumptions.

Also, as I mentioned, this dimension is boundless in every direction, which makes it different from Earth. They can move freely within it, allowing them to move at their full speed. At that speed, even a slight movement could cover a distance exceeding the size of countless universes. Therefore, the size of this dimension indeed surpasses that of the universe.

Goten or... I don't remember exactly, but anyway, whether it's Goten or Trunks, they can circle the Earth in fractions of a second and repeat the process in mere seconds, as shown in the anime, because their movement is unrestricted in the sky. So, drawing conclusions based on Gogeta's battle in the mountains is meaningless because that fight was confined and limited there was sky, ground, and mountains. How do you expect...? But in this dimension, everything is open; there are no boundaries. They can use their maximum speeds inside it without any restrictions because it's open in every direction. Especially since, in this dimension, Broly transformed into Legendary Super Saiyan and Gogeta transformed into Super Saiyan Blue, and each transformation multiplies their speed in an unimaginable way... So, everything is clear, and your argument is illogical. There are differences, and you should recognize them.

Alright, kid, let's say you are at the speed of light inside a limited room against another person at the speed of light inside the same room. Could you fight at the speed of light inside that room? Of course not, because of the obstacles. You wouldn't even be able to use a tiny fraction of that speed due to those obstacles. The same logic applies here.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

No, your words are wrong and I personally disagree with them.

Saying "something is wrong" doesn't discredit it.

There is nothing imaginary about their speed it is clear and not an illusion as you claim or as it appears to the viewer. If it were an illusion, VSBW wouldn't have bothered calculating the speeds of these characters, and if it had no practical use, they wouldn't have gone through the effort of calculating them for every arc in the works. So please, enough with these baseless assumptions.

It seems you do not understand the argument. The point is: the timelapse we see in the film is not necessarily the one that took characters to perform the feats. And I put an example of why your logic doesn't work

Also, as I mentioned, this dimension is boundless in every direction, which makes it different from Earth.

So your argument is reduced again to "the dimension is boundless". So, yeah, that's not enough for an universal size dimension.

They can move freely within it, allowing them to move at their full speed. At that speed, even a slight movement could cover a distance exceeding the size of countless universes

False. Distance covered is determined by both speed and time. Not "slight movements".

Goten or... I don't remember exactly, but anyway, whether it's Goten or Trunks,

Gotenks

they can circle the Earth in fractions of a second and repeat the process in mere seconds, as shown in the anime, because their movement is unrestricted in the sky. So, drawing conclusions based on Gogeta's battle in the mountains is meaningless because that fight was confined and limited there was sky, ground, and mountains. How do you expect...? But in this dimension, everything is open; there are no boundaries. They can use their maximum speeds inside it without any restrictions because it's open in every direction. Especially since, in this dimension, Broly transformed into Legendary Super Saiyan and Gogeta transformed into Super Saiyan Blue, and each transformation multiplies their speed in an unimaginable way... So, everything is clear, and your argument is illogical. There are differences, and you should recognize them.

Doesn't disprove anything I said. You just keep claiming "they are too fast" and "this dimension is boundless". When the point is: the timeframe of the film is not the actual timeframe that took them to perform the feat. So, the assumption your calc stacking (that won't be accepted anyway due to that) is based in is inherently wrong.

Alright, kid, let's say you are at the speed of light inside a limited room against another person at the speed of light inside the same room. Could you fight at the speed of light inside that room?

Yes, you can? If both your perception and travel speed are SoL, you can indeed stop (in fictions like Dragon Ball where relativism doesn't matter so you can move at SoL with finite mass) before crashing into an obstacle.

You yourself brought relativism and how time is perceived different depending on one's speed in your Low 1-A Dragon Ball CRT. This is the same case. We are seeing the fight from their POV. So, even if several seconds pass on the video, they have not passed in the verse. Such as how the meme of the endless 5 minutes of the Frieza Saga.

Of course not, because of the obstacles. You wouldn't even be able to use a tiny fraction of that speed due to those obstacles. The same logic applies here.

The problem is, that's not logic. That's a headcanon, and a wrong one now that we're at it.

 

[Saqphire]

No, this dimension is five-dimensional, and indeed everyone agrees and knows this. And if you are the sole opponent, it doesn't matter; your opinion remains yours. Now, the only remaining issue is the size, and I have now brought evidence about its size after extensive research.

Look around bud. Only two people out of like seven agree with you and neither one of them agree it leads anywhere because there is no size (and no, it simply looking like its expansive =/= it is expansive). And both of them have the same argument as you; "it's called choujigen so it must be super-dimensional aka 5D fr!!!" when that literally gets c*cked by semantics as I've explained to all three of you.

Dokkan Battle uses the term "異次元空間", which is simply "another dimension", which "extradimensional space" can mean.

Ijigenkuukan can also mean "other dimensional space" which, well, it is, compared to the Living World. But another dimension doesn't really matter much when it comes to higher dimensional scaling so yeah, Luffy's translation is more than likely just a mistranslation here. Sure, it can mean extra-dimensional, but that requires further proof which Dokkan doesn't really provide outside of their translation. Nonetheless, thanks for sending the raws.

 

[Cipher72]

You will find the evidence above — I have already presented it. Additionally, in the anime itself, they clearly destroyed it right before our eyes. Therefore, this isn't even an issue to begin with. And this is aside from the work itself stating that this very dimension could not withstand their energies and was destroyed as a result.

Scan ? Link ? Anything?

 

[SuperNova55555]

No, this dimension is five-dimensional, and indeed everyone agrees and knows this. And if you are the sole opponent, it doesn't matter; your opinion remains yours. Now, the only remaining issue is the size, and I have now brought evidence about its size after extensive research.

I also disagree with 5D. It only works for me if DoSL is the space separating the 13 universes. Otherwise I don't see anything that necessitates 5D (as I've explained in detail already)

 

[ItsMeat]

When it comes to the Dragon Ball series, evidence, fairness, and logic are simply things that have no meaning.

Man…

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Gogeta_(DBS_Anime)&ved=2ahUKEwiMncvitu2RAxVV58kDHZUeJ-kQFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0yCJIFqsB0Ua0FG-S8w765

This is the evidence. You can scroll down and go to the speed scaling section and then to the Broly arc.

As for the calculations, they are simple. That number comes from his speed measurements… and knowing the size of the universe, the appropriate speed to cross a universe from start to finish, and taking the speed… It's just some calculations here, but the most important part is Gogeta's speed from that source.

Ok.
This doesn't prove anything still..
One more reply ig
Also
You haven't provided evidence for anything else
So still debunked

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

You will find the evidence above — I have already presented it. Additionally, in the anime itself, they clearly destroyed it right before our eyes. Therefore, this isn't even an issue to begin with. And this is aside from the work itself stating that this very dimension could not withstand their energies and was destroyed as a result.

With this
You haven't provided anything for proof either.
Your words aren't proof yk
You need to provide sources.
Which you Haven't
0
Edit: "When it comes to the Dragon Ball series, evidence, fairness, and logic are simply things that have no meaning."
Also not even true,
You still need to PROVIDE evidence. I'm sorry to simplify say , Dragon ball doesn't get a special PASS for not providing evidence, so once again that whole point is debunked.

 

[StekFence]

if we ignore that it is calc stacking, that could easily (and probably is) just be seconds from the perspectives of the literal only two people there, and thus give us no usable info. For example, if gogeta blues reaction speed is 400 sextillionC, while light speed perception is 3 nanoseconds, then 1 moment from his point of view would be more like 7.5 decillionths of a second or something. So how far could he travel in 5x that number? I’m pretty sure the answer is something stupidly small like 4 meters.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

This is my final response to all of you here, and I want one of you to bring the staff here to prevent this topic from becoming chaotic. Because your opinion is not evidence, and merely objecting does not mean your objection is meaningful it holds no significance whatsoever. I am not obligated to respond to it then, and you are committing a fallacy by doing so. There are people who do not seek the truth, disagree with clear facts, and argue regardless—this is a fallacy. For more information, you can also check the fallacies section.

First, this dimension is five-dimensional, and the discussion on this matter is completely over because I have supported it with evidence, and there are those who agree with it here as well. The majority does not mean the truth, but I will reiterate the points I mentioned regarding this dimension:

• It transcends time and space.
• It is stated to be super-dimensional.
• It is stated a second time to be a super-dimensional realm.
• The work states that this dimension has different dimensions, meaning unknown dimensions, and the known dimensions are the four dimensions.
• We have Universe 7, which is four dimensional, thus this dimension would be five dimensional, consistent with the term "super-dimensional" used to describe it and the statement that it transcends space-time as mentioned.

The evidence is above, and you can go back and review it yourself. I will not send it to you repeatedly in every comment.

Now, to prove that Gogeta and Broly destroyed the entire dimension:

- After Gogeta transformed into Super Saiyan Blue and Broly into Legendary Super Saiyan, it was stated that this dimension could not withstand their energies, and they tore and destroyed this dimension. We have a full scene of this in the anime, so I will not accept any further argument.

I have provided all the evidence, and I am not obligated to resend it every time in each comment. That is why I requested the staff, as this is becoming repetitive and futile.

Now, regarding its size, I have told you that this dimension shows no clear boundaries. Considering Gogeta and Broly's speed within this dimension, we can say it is at least universal in size. If anyone opposes this evidence, they must prove that this dimension is not universal in size, as I have already provided clear calculations and evidence.

This message is directed to everyone. All the evidence is clear, the information is clear, and there are those who agree here. As for the opponents here, they keep repeating the same questions even though the answer is clear each time. Therefore, I request that only the moderators vote here. When the discussion is trapped in a closed loop, you will never reach a conclusion you will just keep going around in circles endlessly.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Good Lord, wrap it up, staff. Please.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

This is my final response to all of you here, and I want one of you to bring the staff here to prevent this topic from becoming chaotic. Because your opinion is not evidence, and merely objecting does not mean your objection is meaningful it holds no significance whatsoever. I am not obligated to respond to it then, and you are committing a fallacy by doing so. There are people who do not seek the truth, disagree with clear facts, and argue regardless—this is a fallacy. For more information, you can also check the fallacies section.

Excuse me but I'm gonna half to ask you to drop that attitude, no one who's given a response committed a fallacy, they responded and gave their opinions in detail. They did not simply object for no reason and if you believe that then I could say the same thing about you, you disagree and act like no one is listening despite people taking the time to explain it. But sure, your not obligated to answer, but know that means you're thread won't get anywhere because the moment someone disagrees it's a problem regardless of how logical the argument is.

First, this dimension is five-dimensional, and the discussion on this matter is completely over because I have supported it with evidence, and there are those who agree with it here as well. The majority does not mean the truth, but I will reiterate the points I mentioned regarding this dimension:

• It transcends time and space.
• It is stated to be super-dimensional.
• It is stated a second time to be a super-dimensional realm.
• The work states that this dimension has different dimensions, meaning unknown dimensions, and the known dimensions are the four dimensions.
• We have Universe 7, which is four dimensional, thus this dimension would be five dimensional, consistent with the term "super-dimensional" used to describe it and the statement that it transcends space-time as mentioned.

The evidence is above, and you can go back and review it yourself. I will not send it to you repeatedly in every comment.

Not much evidence, it transcending time and space just means it's beyond the normal universe but you don't even know where, it's not neutral space, why did they end up in this dimension instead of the actual accepted 5-D space? This dimension is so unknown it's impossible to make much assumption. It could be as "Super" as it wants to be but that won't change the lack of information regarding its function, size or even place in the cosmology. The simple fact that Gogeta and Broly returned to Universe 7 and didn't end up floating in a void after destroying said dimension like you claimed already makes its position in the cosmology as a 5-D structure suss. Regardless, nothing here really holds any weight without more information and that's my final thought on this matter, you can say the discussion is over but that's not how it works, you don't get to decide who can and can't discuss a topic that's literally the main premise of the thread.

Now, to prove that Gogeta and Broly destroyed the entire dimension:

- After Gogeta transformed into Super Saiyan Blue and Broly into Legendary Super Saiyan, it was stated that this dimension could not withstand their energies, and they tore and destroyed this dimension. We have a full scene of this in the anime, so I will not accept any further argument.

You don't half to accept any further arguments but I'm here to tell you that's not how it works. There is no evidence they destroyed the entirety dimension other than a visual fragmented screen that shattered just like when they entered, and as someone pointed out, if they blew up an entire 5-D structure, the energy that exuded when inside universe 7 would have resulted in its immediate destruction, no ifs ands or buts.

I have provided all the evidence, and I am not obligated to resend it every time in each comment. That is why I requested the staff, as this is becoming repetitive and futile.

Well here I am, a staff member and I'm here to tell you that the evidence isn't sufficient in my honest opinion.

Now, regarding its size, I have told you that this dimension shows no clear boundaries. Considering Gogeta and Broly's speed within this dimension, we can say it is at least universal in size. If anyone opposes this evidence, they must prove that this dimension is not universal in size, as I have already provided clear calculations and evidence.

There being no clear boundary from our perspective means nothing, if I go outside I won't see a clear boundary down the open road, should I assume there's no end to the road? No. And once again your using the same "they can do this so they did" logic. Just because they can cross universe sized distances doesn't mean they did, especially when there's nothing to give any indication they did because the background is a mass of ugly lights.

This message is directed to everyone. All the evidence is clear, the information is clear, and there are those who agree here. As for the opponents here, they keep repeating the same questions even though the answer is clear each time. Therefore, I request that only the moderators vote here. When the discussion is trapped in a closed loop, you will never reach a conclusion you will just keep going around in circles endlessly.

No, all evidence/information is not clear, if it was, we wouldn't be having this long discussion You saying the opposing side is repeating the same argument is wild when you're doing it to. But I'm here and as requested I'm going to vote just like I did previously. I disagree with this thread, it's not convincing and majority of people disagree and have provided logical arguments and no staff have agreed from what I can see. If you accept this outcome or not is up to you but I'm not going let this discussion continue as is, especially when it's clearly not going anywhere and since you clearly aren't going to respond to any argument that's against yours I'm going to close this thread.

I suggest the same as I did on the other thread, discuss this stuff on the DB discussion thread with knowledgeable members before making threads like this. Actually listen to the arguments of others instead of ignoring them and read our requirements for such things. I hope everyone has a good night, I'm closing this.