Questions about HDE

[ThienDe01]

If a body (of unknown size) has a "time axis" (this time axis is infinite), can it be considered a 4D being? No matter how the body's time changes, it doesn't affect the universe's timeline; it only changes the body itself.

 

[SweetDao]

If a body (of unknown size) has a "time axis" (this time axis is infinite), can it be considered a 4D being? No matter how the body's time changes, it doesn't affect the universe's timeline; it only changes the body itself.

I'm not sure, but the closest situation to yours on the HDE page is that one:

• Characters who embody or are a literal timeline / spacetime continuum (The entire past, present and future of 3-dimensional space) on a universal scale can also be considered for Higher-Dimensional Existence (4-D). However, simply being called a universe does not count without proper evidence of the entirety of the past, present and future of the timeline being mentioned.

 

[ThienDe01]

I'm not sure, but the closest situation to yours on the HDE page is that one:

It's not called space-time, that's why I have to ask for everyone's help.
Could you please take a look at this specific case for me?

Spoiler

Each character's body has a time axis (this time axis is infinite). No matter how the body's time changes, it doesn't affect the universe's timeline; it only changes the body itself.

Eugo La Raviaz had the power to control time. He could freely manipulate even the time of his own body, so any attempts to harm him would simply be frozen. On the off chance any damage was done, it would immediately be undone.

The Scythe of the Timekeeper merged with his arm wreaked havoc on the temporal state of my body.

“Vanish in the eternity of time.”

Silver light enveloped me, and time accelerated. A billion—ten billion—no, an eternity repeated before me in a single instant. Not even the Demon King’s body could last forever. Eventually, it would wither and disappear.

By the time the light exploded, the body that had acquired an eternity of time had vanished—and died.

 

[SweetDao]

It's not called space-time, that's why I have to ask for everyone's help.
Could you please take a look at this specific case for me?

Spoiler

Each character's body has a time axis (this time axis is infinite). No matter how the body's time changes, it doesn't affect the universe's timeline; it only changes the body itself.

It seems to me like time manipulation rather than HDE. The whole thing about manipulating the "time" of his own body or the ennemy is targeted time manipulation so it's not HDE.

 

[ThienDe01]

It seems to me like time manipulation rather than HDE. The whole thing about manipulating the "time" of his own body or the ennemy is targeted time manipulation so it's not HDE.

The manipulation of time isn't the important thing; what I want to ask is whether characters with a "time axis" of their body count as HDE 4D (the body being 3D + 1D from the body's time axis)?

 

[SweetDao]

The manipulation of time isn't the important thing; what I want to ask is whether characters with a "time axis" of their body count as HDE 4D (the body being 3D + 1D from the body's time axis)?

I think you're reading a bit too much into it. It just meant that the time power he used can target something on a smaller scale. Like for example using the power to make a house crumble or an item wither away. This is no different than a character "buffind their speed" through time manipulation on their body for example.

 

[ThienDe01]

Like for example using the power to make a house crumble or an item wither away.

When you use time manipulation to make a house crumble, you are accelerating the house's entropy along the universe's time axis. The house does not possess its own time; it is subject to the universal flow. We humans are 3D beings because we don't have our own time axis and must follow the universe's timeline.

This is no different than a character "buffind their speed" through time manipulation on their body for example.

The scan explicitly states that the body has a 'time axis' (this axis is 'infinite'). This is the body's own property; even if you overwrite/destroy any part of the body's time axis, the universe's time will not change.

 

[Vietthai96]

This isn't HDE, he just manipulate the time of his own body, manipulating local time is an usual thing in fiction. Idk how you can interpreting this into his body possess a time axis

 

[ThienDe01]

This isn't HDE, he just manipulate the time of his own body, manipulating local time is an usual thing in fiction. Idk how you can interpreting this into his body possess a time axis

I think the body has a "Time Axis," which has already been explained above, and I've recently learned more about this.

Spoiler

Under the control of the Order of Time, the past cannot be altered. Even if a character travels back in time and changes it, the Order of Time itself erases the altered past and returns it to its original state.

However, their bodies remain injured in the present, even though the cause (being slashed in the altered past) has been erased.

“I shall. I also have one warning for all of you. When the effect of Revalon ends, the past will return to normal. That means our presence in the past will be erased. However, we will retain our memories of what we went through—and our bodies will as well. Any wounds sustained in the past will remain when you return to the present. You can die here, so don’t let your guards down.”

In short, there was nothing we could do to affect the past, but the past was capable of affecting us. As well as being two thousand years in the past, we were in human territory right now—there was no doubt they’d attack if they knew we were demons.

The fact that they still retain these wounds means their bodies possess a "time axis" with a past different from that of the universe.

 

[Vietthai96]

That is just simply a resistance toward past alteration, by this logic, every Acausality Type 1 character have their own time axis

 

[SweetDao]

Vietthai makes sense. Honestly like I said, you would need to extrapolate a lot of what is written to assume they have "timeline unto themselves". Not impossible, but not with the current evidences.

 

[Vietthai96]

I think the body has a "Time Axis," which has already been explained above, and I've recently learned more about this.

Spoiler

Under the control of the Order of Time, the past cannot be altered. Even if a character travels back in time and changes it, the Order of Time itself erases the altered past and returns it to its original state.

However, their bodies remain injured in the present, even though the cause (being slashed in the altered past) has been erased.

The fact that they still retain these wounds means their bodies possess a "time axis" with a past different from that of the universe.

Also, this is just Order of Time fixing any alteration toward the past. Characters are come from the future so they don't belong to the past, the Order of Time will not do anything to them, so this is just specific mechanism in-verse

So yeah, you need to extrapolate this extremely high to have "character have their own time axis"

 

[ThienDe01]

That is just simply a resistance toward past alteration

If you assume they only resisted changes to the past, then why are they still injured by past attacks, even though they weren't attacked in the past?

Spoiler

Ceris wants to change Golroana's past, but he must make Golroana in the present believe in the altered past; otherwise, the altered past will not apply to Golroana's past.

“The Book of Traces shows the past exactly as it was,” he said. “It cannot be altered so easily. Even if it were changed, the order of time would return it to what it was originally.”
“It probably changed it for the single moment the Book of Traces was active
—when we were watching the past,” I said.
That’s why there was no change right now. This way, I would be unable to see the past as it truly was.
“It is no easy feat to alter the past while the God of Traces’s order is active,” Golroana said. “It would be the same as forcefully interfering with the person in the past directly. For example, if I were to alter the trace of us speaking today, I would require enough strength to brainwash you.”
Even if Ceris had managed to alter the Book of Traces, if he couldn’t brainwash me into believing it, that altered past would have no effect. Of course, it would take an absurd amount of effort to brainwash me.
“In short, the stronger the figure, the harder their words and actions are to alter,” I surmised. “But what if the one being altered was an ally, or the person making the alterations himself?”
“You mean Ceris altered his past self?” Golroana asked.

Honestly like I said, you would need to extrapolate a lot of what is written to assume they have "timeline unto themselves". Not impossible, but not with the current evidences.

So yeah, you need to extrapolate this extremely high to have "character have their own time axis"

What additional evidence/proof do you think I need to provide to obtain HDE in this case?

 

[Vietthai96]

What additional evidence/proof do you think I need to provide to obtain HDE in this case?

is directly stated to be space-time, timeline or something equivalent, or being X dimensional with X higher than 3

 

[ThienDe01]

is directly stated to be space-time, timeline or something equivalent, or being X dimensional with X higher than 3

If the author had clarified it like that, I wouldn't have had to go through all this trouble.

 

[Vietthai96]

If the author had clarified it like that, I wouldn't have had to go through all this trouble.

There are some abilities that, other than direct statement, no other way to be obtained.

The other ways is semi-direct, such as when character A is fused or merged with space-time, timeline or any higher-dimensional structure

 

[Rikimarox2]

Yeah, this doesn't seem like Higher-D, at all. Many verses have similar mechanics (ie affect the time of a body, not the universe, for example), but we wouldn't index them as HDE because, simply, their existence isn't really higher-D at all (they can still be affected by normal 3-D stuff).

Hell, the logic behind this is;
1. Character can affect the time of a body
2. Only the body's time is affected, timeline as a whole isn't affected.
3. Ergo, the body is higher-d due to having its own time.

The problem with the above is, well, if we go that route then we need to give every time stopper, time manipulator that affects local stuff, etc... HDE. For example, if a character stopped the time within 5 meters alone, and the timeline itself continued to move, would you say that everything in those 5 meters are HDE since they have their own time?

I probably butchered the explanation, but basically, what SweetDao and Vietthai said.